Trayvon Martin

[Advogado]

George Zimmerman's lawyers just announced they are no longer representing him and have been unable to contact him since Sunday. Zimmerman himself contacted the special prosecutors offices and requested a meeting, but was told no because he needs to be represented by an attorney. He also called Sean Hannity and had a conversation with him that has not been disclosed. His lawyers did say in their press conference that Zimmerman is not in Florida.
A weird turn of events. You couldn't make some of this stuff up.

In any event, dumping lawyers who who would give a crazy news conference like those guys did might not have been a bad move on Zimmerman's part, but doing it before finding replacement lawyers and also talking to Sean Hannity certainly were not the smartest moves.

[CMANN]

As far as I know, CMANN, even if a shooter such as Zimmerman did act in self-defense (which has or has not yet been proved), they are still going to be responsible for their own legal fees. These legal fees can easily hit $50,000 to well over $100,000 - and those are not covered by insurance, Medicare, or Social Security! Those are your out-of-pocket fees.

If I am mistaken in the responsibility for the charged person to pay their own legal fees under the "castle law" or "stand your ground" law, let me know and please show me in the laws where it says a shooter does not have to pay for legal defense. Thank you. Friendship with me has nothing to do with this.

Since, as the evidence in this case seemed to show Zimmerman acted in self-defense. The police evidently believing this took no action. Hence, the legal fees. However Zimmerman could have been subjected to civil lawsuits. Is the civil lawsuits that the law protects against. If there were evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Zimmerman there would be no protection of any kind under the law. What has happened is that the race baiters are now trying to change the playing field for their usual racist reasons.

I in no way believe that Zimmerman got up that morning and said "*********." I do believe that he shot a man in self-defense because of his testimony the supporting evidence and the lack of evidence to the contrary. I just wish that the race baiters leave the poor guy alone. Stop trying to influence the justice system. Let the case be settled.

It's no wonder that the guy is in hiding. A bounty is on his head that apparently our attorney general and his Justice Department don't seem to find the illegal. People want to punish him because he shot a black man.

I stand by letting the case the result without the influence of a clearly prejudiced community.

Those are my thoughts.

P.S. Self-defense is not a crime. It is not the responsibility of Zimmerman to prove his innocents. The burdon of proof is on the state.

[paulandjean]

"Leave the poor guy alone"??? Wow ......"Since the evidence in this case ,Zimmerman acted in self-defense? Not defense you mean offense. Race Baiters? You mean all the photos on TV of all races of people protesting.

[redwitch]

I'm not convinced Trayvon is the innocent boy the news media has made him out to be. At the same time, I'm definitely not convinced he deserved to die. I can easily see a teen being followed and getting the adrenaline going. Then, the person following starts to turn around. Adrenaline, hormones and general male machoness take over. Comments are probably made on both sides. Trayvon may have attacked (probably did) but not enough to do serious damage. Zimmerman goes down. Zimmerman is also macho and no punk is going to knock him to the ground. Out comes the gun and Trayvon is dead.

So, if this scenario is even halfway correct, did Zimmerman commit a crime given Florida's laws? I think so (okay, hope so) but not sure what laws might have been broken. What would have happened if Zimmerman had announced (in a friendly way) that he was Neighborhood Watch and just wanted to know if Trayvon was lost or something rather than following him? Would Trayvon have attacked Zimmerman if Zimmerman had told him that he'd called the police and they were on the way? There are so many things Zimmerman could have done to defuse the situation before it hit the point that he was probably attacked. I doubt Zimmerman wanted to defuse the situation. He wanted to prove he was a man and he did and a boy died.

The reality is that few teenage boys would have acted much differently than Trayvon did. They are at an age that they have to prove they are men and that means you don't follow them without some sort of a confrontation, not if they think they have the upper hand and when someone turns around and starts to leave, they think they're safe. Stupid? Yes. Arrogant? Yes. Murderous? No. Deserving of death? No!!! Zimmerman started this mess. Zimmerman ended this mess. Hopefully, there will be some sort of punishment for the death of this boy.

[graciegirl]

I'm not convinced Trayvon is the innocent boy the news media has made him out to be. At the same time, I'm definitely not convinced he deserved to die. I can easily see a teen being followed and getting the adrenaline going. Then, the person following starts to turn around. Adrenaline, hormones and general male machoness take over. Comments are probably made on both sides. Trayvon may have attacked (probably did) but not enough to do serious damage. Zimmerman goes down. Zimmerman is also macho and no punk is going to knock him to the ground. Out comes the gun and Trayvon is dead.

So, if this scenario is even halfway correct, did Zimmerman commit a crime given Florida's laws? I think so (okay, hope so) but not sure what laws might have been broken. What would have happened if Zimmerman had announced (in a friendly way) that he was Neighborhood Watch and just wanted to know if Trayvon was lost or something rather than following him? Would Trayvon have attacked Zimmerman if Zimmerman had told him that he'd called the police and they were on the way? There are so many things Zimmerman could have done to defuse the situation before it hit the point that he was probably attacked. I doubt Zimmerman wanted to defuse the situation. He wanted to prove he was a man and he did and a boy died.

The reality is that few teenage boys would have acted much differently than Trayvon did. They are at an age that they have to prove they are men and that means you don't follow them without some sort of a confrontation, not if they think they have the upper hand and when someone turns around and starts to leave, they think they're safe. Stupid? Yes. Arrogant? Yes. Murderous? No. Deserving of death? No!!! Zimmerman started this mess. Zimmerman ended this mess. Hopefully, there will be some sort of punishment for the death of this boy.

That makes a lot of sense. You are trying to reason things out by yourself rather than just following something you heard on TV. Good for you. What you say is very very probable.

As Avogado posted....it gets muddier and muddier. Now George Zimmerman's lawyers quit and have a news conference?

If everyone doesn't calm down we are gonna have a race war.

Because black youth across the country hit the headlines every day being murdered and murdering each other, it makes people pre judge. Because people are frightened they think these gun laws are keeping them safe. I don't know. I just don't know.

This is a very tough call. I think it is gonna get way uglier and I am beginning to fear personally what the outcome will be. I fear widespread violence and people who are innocent witll be harmed big time and killed.

This has to stop escalating.

[Taltarzac725]

Trayvon Martin: Sanford 'a kindling box' as prosecutor weighs charges | World news | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/10/trayvon-martin-sanford-kindling-box)

[billethkid]

when all gets said and done there were only two people present who know exactly what happened and why or why not. And one of them is no longer able to speak.

All the rest...the media...the lawyers pro/con....the man on the street...the race players Jackson/Sharpton (who have mysteriously vacated the scene)...the politicians...the celebrities...the forums....all have NOTHING but their respective biased opinions.....

unfortunately the media validates any or all of the above based on their sensationalism quotient....

Right now the side taking and ballyhooing by those not directly involved is akin to nothing more than sporting event like jousting....and about as superficial.

btk

[CMANN]

"Leave the poor guy alone"??? Wow ......"Since the evidence in this case ,Zimmerman acted in self-defense? Not defense you mean offense. Race Baiters? You mean all the photos on TV of all races of people protesting.

PROOF?

How many times do I have to say it. It was self-defense until proven otherwise!

:censored:

[paulandjean]

"PROOF" Somebody has to take their head out of the sand.Teen shot and killed. Your "BOY" George acting pretty strange now, Insanity plea possible? What do you think?

[Taltarzac725]

"PROOF" Somebody has to take their head out of the sand.Teen shot and killed. Your "BOY" George acting pretty strange now, Insanity plea possible? What do you think?

It is very hard to actually get an insanity defense to work. Cannot really see anything though that would allow George Zimmerman to use one. His behavior now is irrelevant to his state of mind when he shot Trayvon Martin which would be the issue with respect to any insanity plea. http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/current-application-of-the-insanity-defense.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity_defense

Florida law with respect to the insanity defense-- http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/775.027

[buggyone]

Why can't some people understand that Zimmerman was told by the police operator NOT TO GO AFTER Martin? If he had just reported what he saw to the police and let the matter up to the police, this killing would not have taken place.

Zimmerman took the matter into his own hands after being directed by the police not to follow Martin.

[JoeC1947]

"PROOF" Somebody has to take their head out of the sand.Teen shot and killed. Your "BOY" George acting pretty strange now, Insanity plea possible? What do you think?

Holy Crap! The Black Panthers have a price on his head!! I would have been gone a long time ago. Seems like a very SANE thing to do.
What's with the word boy in quotes supposed to mean?

[JoeC1947]

As far as I know, CMANN, even if a shooter such as Zimmerman did act in self-defense (which has or has not yet been proved), they are still going to be responsible for their own legal fees. These legal fees can easily hit $50,000 to well over $100,000 - and those are not covered by insurance, Medicare, or Social Security! Those are your out-of-pocket fees.

If I am mistaken in the responsibility for the charged person to pay their own legal fees under the "castle law" or "stand your ground" law, let me know and please show me in the laws where it says a shooter does not have to pay for legal defense. Thank you. Friendship with me has nothing to do with this.

You can get a policy from the NRA to cover this type of thing.

[skyguy79]

Why can't some people understand that Zimmerman was told by the police operator NOT TO GO AFTER Martin?Who said people don't understand what the police told Zimmerman? Nobody I know including myself. What it seems that way too many people don't understand is that under the US Justice System of our country, a person is ALWAYS presumed innocent until proven guilty, and so far there had not been a shred of "evidence" made public that can lead to that conclusion... just opinions, fabrications and conjectures! It's time for the justice system to be allowed to do their job without extreme intimidations and for the media and public figures to be scrutinized and held financially responsible for inflammatory comments like I heard on the TV yesterday where a reporter referred to Zimmerman as a "murderer" instead of an alleged murderer! Whatever happened to the use of the word alleged before someone is found guilty of something?

[billethkid]

if there was nothing but racist driven hate as well as prejudgement as well as the media hyping every fly spec to get this guy and there was still not enough evidence to arrest....how likely is it some of you would just be wandering around the area to see what could happen.

All of you would do just like he is. He has not been judged by the law to warrant an arrest. Like it or not he is a free man. He has been judged, tried and found guilty as well as bountys having been put on his head. If it was any of you would be out hiding under a rock as well.

His lawyers make a spectacle of no longer representing Zimmerman. Spouting off much more information and fuel for the media and the rest of the condemers. They did not do their client any service by using the words...we can't find him...that is very stupid and inflammatory and of course the evening news and way too many of you have picked up on the erroneous phrasing and once again extrapolating, with no facts, the man's guilt. The lawyers were not out trying to find Zimmerman. They were unable to communicate with him. And oh by the way while the "couldn't find" Zimmerman, they were aware Zimmerman was in touch with other folks.

The lawyers spun an inaccurate yarn and the gullible sheeple have run with the story and made up a new set of accusations. How would you like to be the object of as much hate? Would you be front and center telling your side of it?

I like many others will wait for real evidence and due process and hope those with the racist, lynch mob attitude do not prevail.

Lynch mob mentality.....nothing more.

btk

[Advogado]

Why can't some people understand that Zimmerman was told by the police operator NOT TO GO AFTER Martin? If he had just reported what he saw to the police and let the matter up to the police, this killing would not have taken place.

Zimmerman took the matter into his own hands after being directed by the police not to follow Martin.

I am not defending Zimmerman, just attacking the disgracefully slanted media coverage of the incident and uninformed public comments based on that coveage. Contrary to what the media has almost uniformly reported and you have just stated, the police did not direct Zimmerman not to follow Martin. Please read the transcript.

The police dispatcher, in fact, told Zimmerman that the police didn't "need" ZImmerman to do that. That is hardly the same as "directing" him not to.

If you are going to make a very serious allegation against Zimmerman or anybody else, you should get your facts straight. Why don't you wait until the investigators and prosecutor do their job before making allegations that may turn out to be unfounded?

[skyguy79]

I am not defending Zimmerman, just attacking the disgracefully slanted media coverage of the incident and uninformed public comments based on that coveage. Contrary to what the media has almost uniformly reported and you have just stated, the police did not direct Zimmerman not to follow Martin. Please read the transcript.

The police dispatcher, in fact, told Zimmerman that the police didn't "need" ZImmerman to do that. That is hardly the same as "directing" him not to.

If you are going to make a very serious allegation against Zimmerman or anybody else, you should get your facts straight. Why don't you wait until the investigators and prosecutor do their job before making allegations that may turn out to be unfounded?Facts? Aren't they all but extinct and irrevelent in most if not all forms of today's activism? Just saying!

[Advogado]

Facts? Aren't they all but extinct and irrevelent in most if not all forms of today's activism? Just saying!
Agree. Certainly the anti-Zimmerman lynch mob is not letting the now-publicly-known facts (or lack thereof) influences their rush to judgement.

[janmcn]

NBC News is reporting that criminal charges will be filed against George Zimmerman later today. Not saying what charges. They also reported that FDLE is not concerned about locating Zimmerman.

[Taltarzac725]

Report: George Zimmerman will be charged in Trayvon Martin's death | jacksonville.com (http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/adam-kealoha-causey/2012-04-11/report-george-zimmerman-will-be-charged-trayvon)

[skyguy79]

Report: George Zimmerman will be charged in Trayvon Martin's death | jacksonville.com (http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/adam-kealoha-causey/2012-04-11/report-george-zimmerman-will-be-charged-trayvon)If that's what happens, that will be good if the charges are honestly based on evidence and not political pressure!

[manaboutown]

It was apparent to me when the special prosecutor stated she would make the decision without calling a grand jury that Zimmerman would be charged. No one would want to stand up on his or her own to the lynch mob mentality fomented by the disinformation generated by the mainstream media and the race baiters. Hopefully, the full story based on the actual facts will come out and this will be settled in time. I found this discussion quite interesting. Trayvon's parents are to be commended for how they are dealing with their great loss among other things.

PopModal - Video - Ann Coulter on Geraldo: Media lying about Trayvon Martin case (http://www.popmodal.com/collection/ac/13347)

[CMANN]

[QUOTE=skyguy79;478127]Facts? Aren't they all but extinct and irrevelent in most if not all forms of today's activism? Just saying![/QUOTE

Agreed.

As far as the Feds go, do you really trust the AG who speaks glowingly of AL Sharpton and would not investigate the New Black Panthers voter intimidation charges to impartially investigate this case? Zimmerman: sucks to be him.

[janmcn]

[QUOTE=skyguy79;478127]Facts? Aren't they all but extinct and irrevelent in most if not all forms of today's activism? Just saying![/QUOTE

Agreed.

As far as the Feds go, do you really trust the AG who speaks glowingly of AL Sharpton and would not investigate the New Black Panthers voter intimidation charges to impartially investigate this case? Zimmerman: sucks to be him.

Are you saying that the career FBI employees, the FDLE and the special prosecutor Angela Corey are not to be trusted? Surprised you're not leading a posse of Zimmerman supporters to Sanford from The Villages with your signs "We Support George".

[BobKat1]

[QUOTE=skyguy79;478127]Facts? Aren't they all but extinct and irrevelent in most if not all forms of today's activism? Just saying![/QUOTE

Agreed.

As far as the Feds go, do you really trust the AG who speaks glowingly of AL Sharpton and would not investigate the New Black Panthers voter intimidation charges to impartially investigate this case? Zimmerman: sucks to be him.

It didn't take long for the thread to take this turn. Less time than thought it would.

[pivo]

When is the goverment going to investigate Sharpton and Jackson for making a circus of this shooting like the Tawanna Brawley case and the four I believe lacrose players in S.C or N.C and never appologized for their rascist comments against the police which one commited suicide and the four young players whose life was destroyed because of Sharpton and Jackson.
All these clowns do is pressure the big company's like Kentucky Fried Chicken on picketing them and in return get free franchises.
If these two were put in their place we would have less racial problems in this country.

[janmcn]

When is the goverment going to investigate Sharpton and Jackson for making a circus of this shooting like the Tawanna Brawley case and the four I believe lacrose players in S.C or N.C and never appologized for their rascist comments against the police which one commited suicide and the four young players whose life was destroyed because of Sharpton and Jackson.
All these clowns do is pressure the big company's like Kentucky Fried Chicken on picketing them and in return get free franchises.
If these two were put in their place we would have less racial problems in this country.

This thread is not about Rev Al Sharpton or Rev Jesse Jackson. It is titled Trayvon Martin. Feel free to start your own thread any time. If it weren't for the parents asking Rev Sharpton to get involved, we never would have heard about this case and George Zimmerman would get away with it.

[pivo]

did you ever think that Zimmerman might be innocent ? The reason Sharton and Jackson was brough up because they are involved in the the racial tone of this case otherwise this case would of been over with ( could I include Obama in this too).

[BobKat1]

When is the goverment going to investigate Sharpton and Jackson for making a circus of this shooting like the Tawanna Brawley case and the four I believe lacrose players in S.C or N.C and never appologized for their rascist comments against the police which one commited suicide and the four young players whose life was destroyed because of Sharpton and Jackson.
All these clowns do is pressure the big company's like Kentucky Fried Chicken on picketing them and in return get free franchises.
If these two were put in their place we would have less racial problems in this country.

Since the Duke LaCrosse incident happened 6 years ago there probably won't be an apology forthcoming, if one was even due.

In any case, not sure what it has to do with the title of this thread.

[GaryW]

This thread is not about Rev Al Sharpton or Rev Jesse Jackson. It is titled Trayvon Martin. Feel free to start your own thread any time. If it weren't for the parents asking Rev Sharpton to get involved, we never would have heard about this case and George Zimmerman would get away with it.

:22yikes: but I do :agree:

[DaleMN]

Well, it's obvious racism is alive and well in TOTV. :mad:

[janmcn]

did you ever think that Zimmerman might be innocent ? The reason Sharton and Jackson was brough up because they are involved in the the racial tone of this case otherwise this case would of been over with ( could I include Obama in this too).

Evidently the special prosecutor and her team don't believe Zimmerman is innocent, since they charged him with second degree murder. I'm just guessing they have more information about this case than we do. Zimmerman will get his day in court which is more than Trayvon Martin ever did.

[PennBF]

We have all lost today. We have become "cowards" to the hanging crowd
and unfortunately they are building the gallows for Zimmerman even though the Police did not arrest him. They had to bring in a "Special Procsecutor" and do away with a Grand Jury in case it found no cause for prosecution and
then have the "Special Procsecutor" violate Zimmerman's rights to satisfy the hanging crowd. I lived and worked about 3-4 miles from where Tawana Brawley falsely accused the assistant DA (Pagoness) of assulting her and in came the same bunch of rable rousers who scared the state and they have now have done the same thing against this person and scared Florida to act as a coward. For those who don't know. After they ruined Pagoness's reputatioin he sued them and won against both Brawley and Sharpton and the last I heard they have not paid the judgements. It is a day of shame for all who value the legal process and fairness. :mad:

[army one]

This thread is not about Rev Al Sharpton or Rev Jesse Jackson. It is titled Trayvon Martin. Feel free to start your own thread any time. If it weren't for the parents asking Rev Sharpton to get involved, we never would have heard about this case and George Zimmerman would get away with it.

It seems you are convicting someone without a trial. Like it or not, Zimmerman is not guilty until he has has his day in court. The press has taken this to a new level and made this a race thing because they seem to think it makes a better news story. The job of the press is to report not convict. Thanks to the press, it will be impossible to get a jury that is not biased in more ways than one. I wonder if the Anthony trial wouldn't have had a different outcome if the press reported it in an unbiased manner. Just my humble opinion.

[buggyone]

Zimmerman should have thought about consequences BEFORE following Martin with a pistol.

Yes, it does suck to be Zimmerman right now. Even if found not guilty, he will probably have to move and change his name to begin over somewhere else.

However, it is his own stupid fault for following Martin with a pistol.

[CMANN]

Zimmerman should have thought about consequences BEFORE following Martin with a pistol.

Yes, it does suck to be Zimmerman right now. Even if found not guilty, he will probably have to move and change his name to begin over somewhere else.

However, it is his own stupid fault for following Martin with a pistol.

I suppose by your logic Martin was a dumbass for picking a fight with a man with a pistol.

Time will tell.

[De Lis]

Through this whole mess, I don't believe that I have read any articles regarding the taking away of guns from a Community Watch person. Why not?

Do our C. W. people in The Villages carry them? Someone please respond ASAP!

[PennBF]

Look up "Tawana Brawley"..This is Brawley all over again. Ruining reputations and persons lives by the Press and the rable rousers. It is amazing that history repeats itself so easily. :mad:

[manaboutown]

Check out these statements from Martin's parents . Trayvon Martin mom Sybrina Fulton on Zimmerman shooting: (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-mom-sybrina-fulton-zimmerman-shooting-accident-122512394.html)

It seems the mainstream media is still using the years old photo of an apparently prepubescent Trayvon Martin although they have replaced the old police mugshot of George Zimmerman.

[BobKat1]

Check out these statements from Martin's parents . Trayvon Martin mom Sybrina Fulton on Zimmerman shooting: (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-mom-sybrina-fulton-zimmerman-shooting-accident-122512394.html)

It seems the mainstream media is still using the years old photo of an apparently prepubescent Trayvon Martin although they have replaced the old police mugshot of George Zimmerman.

I get a kick out of the photos that are shown on the news. One report will have angelic Trayvon and evil looking George. Then another report has menacing Trayvon with clean cut George. The circus continues.

[PennBF]

At the time of Brawley they published pictures of her with her head on her mothers lap,etc and the rable rousers using that to show the terrible effect on the parents. In the end it was all just an attempt to lead the public into some form of sympathy and away from the real facts. Sound familiar?:mornincoffee:

[buggyone]

At the time of Brawley they published pictures of her with her head on her mothers lap,etc and the rable rousers using that to show the terrible effect on the parents. In the end it was all just an attempt to lead the public into some form of sympathy and away from the real facts. Sound familiar?:mornincoffee:

...and there should not be sympathy for Trayvon Martin's family? Their son was killed! Whether or not it was justified legally, their 17 year old son is dead.

And "away from the real facts". We do not know the real facts yet in this terrible incident. We only have Zimmerman's account. Is there more? Wait and see without jumping to conclusions on either side.

[Advogado]

I get a kick out of the photos that are shown on the news. One report will have angelic Trayvon and evil looking George. Then another report has menacing Trayvon with clean cut George. The circus continues.

Let's just hope that the trial isn't televised.

[Taltarzac725]

Let's give the prosecutors in this case the benefit of the doubt. They have a duty to actually present the case to the best of their ability based upon the facts they have. They took their time arresting Zimmerman so they must think they have a pretty good case against Zimmerman. http://sa18.state.fl.us/general/duties.htm

A jury could still find him innocent or a judge could dismiss the case.

Let's just wait and see if the system works.

Prosecutor's ethics (3.8)-- http://www.law.cornell.edu/ethics/fl/narr/ http://www.law.cornell.edu/ethics/fl/narr/FL_NARR_3.HTM#3.8:300

[twinklesweep]

Trayvon Martin shooting spurs protests against companies with ties to legislative group - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trayvon-martin-shooting-spurs-protests-against-companies-with-ties-to-legislative-group/2012/04/12/gIQAs8HuDT_story.html?wpisrc=nl_cuzheads)


.... What it seems that way too many people don't understand is that under the US Justice System of our country, a person is ALWAYS presumed innocent until proven guilty, and so far there had not been a shred of "evidence" made public that can lead to that conclusion... just opinions, fabrications and conjectures! It's time for the justice system to be allowed to do their job without extreme intimidations and for the media and public figures to be scrutinized and held financially responsible for inflammatory comments like I heard on the TV yesterday where a reporter referred to Zimmerman as a "murderer" instead of an alleged murderer! Whatever happened to the use of the word alleged before someone is found guilty of something?

I said something along these lines a while back. The only facts are that Zimmerman had a gun and Martin is dead. Everything else is more than just "opinions, fabrications and conjectures." It's also politics and racism, as can clearly be seen in some of the comments made earlier. We are not obliged to accept a self-serving media focusing on its own bottom line, and at the same time we do need to accept and respect the justice system (whether in the end we agree with it or not) because it's what we have in this great country of ours.

[paulandjean]

Very glad George Zimmerman is in jail.

[Taltarzac725]

Very glad George Zimmerman is in jail.

He is probably a lot safer there because of all the hatred directed at him due to the strained race relations coming out of this murder. It was a murder. We will just have to wait and see and get all the facts before determining if the murder was a justified one.

Really do not like that Stand Your Ground law though. Belongs more in 1812 than 2012.

[redwitch]

Tal, there are pluses and minuses to the stand your ground law. Sadly, it is one of the main reasons I moved to Florida. Some will use it as an excuse to be a "man", to not have to back down, to claim self-defense regardless of the actual fear or danger. Some will use it to protect themselves in the true sense that the law was created.

I think Zimmerman's defense will hinge largely on the autopsy and the trajectory of the bullet. I would guess that the path of the bullet will tell us a lot, at least I hope so.

I was and am firmly behind the idea that Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged with something. I have yet to see anything that changes my mind that the Sanford Police Department did their job. At most, there was a cursory and perfunctory examination of the event. Witnesses were barely, if at all, interviewed. To me, that has always been the biggest issue. Not a race issue, not even the fact that a young man died. The simple fact that a police department did not do its job and justice was not being served. Hopefully, now all facts will come out and a reasoned verdict can be determined. I think that's what the Martins were asking for.

[Taltarzac725]

Tal, there are pluses and minuses to the stand your ground law. Sadly, it is one of the main reasons I moved to Florida. Some will use it as an excuse to be a "man", to not have to back down, to claim self-defense regardless of the actual fear or danger. Some will use it to protect themselves in the true sense that the law was created.

I think Zimmerman's defense will hinge largely on the autopsy and the trajectory of the bullet. I would guess that the path of the bullet will tell us a lot, at least I hope so.

I was and am firmly behind the idea that Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged with something. I have yet to see anything that changes my mind that the Sanford Police Department did their job. At most, there was a cursory and perfunctory examination of the event. Witnesses were barely, if at all, interviewed. To me, that has always been the biggest issue. Not a race issue, not even the fact that a young man died. The simple fact that a police department did not do its job and justice was not being served. Hopefully, now all facts will come out and a reasoned verdict can be determined. I think that's what the Martins were asking for.

I had heard that too from some lawyers discussing this on some channels. Think it was Alan Dershowitz and Patricia Cornwell who were discussing what the forensics might show. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-dershowitz/the-rorschach-facts-in-th_b_1418441.html http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/03/patricia-cornwell-on-the-importance-of-forensics-in-the-trayvon-martin-case/

That police department does have some history with shoddy investigations.

I understand why you would defend the Stand Your Ground Law. It does make sense in various situations. Wish they could have written it a little better though. http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-25/politics/31235757_1_deadly-force-castle-doctrine-imminent-commission

[RichieLion]

Tal, there are pluses and minuses to the stand your ground law. Sadly, it is one of the main reasons I moved to Florida. Some will use it as an excuse to be a "man", to not have to back down, to claim self-defense regardless of the actual fear or danger. Some will use it to protect themselves in the true sense that the law was created.

I think Zimmerman's defense will hinge largely on the autopsy and the trajectory of the bullet. I would guess that the path of the bullet will tell us a lot, at least I hope so.

I was and am firmly behind the idea that Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged with something. I have yet to see anything that changes my mind that the Sanford Police Department did their job. At most, there was a cursory and perfunctory examination of the event. Witnesses were barely, if at all, interviewed. To me, that has always been the biggest issue. Not a race issue, not even the fact that a young man died. The simple fact that a police department did not do its job and justice was not being served. Hopefully, now all facts will come out and a reasoned verdict can be determined. I think that's what the Martins were asking for.

Great article on this case and the charges brought against Mr. Zimmerman in this article by Andrew McCarthy, if you haven't seen the link in the other thread devoted to this incident.

Martin Case Affidavit - By Andrew C. McCarthy - The Corner - National Review Online (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/295997/martin-case-affidavit-andrew-c-mccarthy)

[CMANN]

He is probably a lot safer there because of all the hatred directed at him due to the strained race relations coming out of this murder. It was a murder. We will just have to wait and see and get all the facts before determining if the murder was a justified one.

Really do not like that Stand Your Ground law though. Belongs more in 1812 than 2012.

Stand your ground has nothing to do with it. Seld-defense or not self-defense, that is the question.

[Taltarzac725]

Great article on this case and the charges brought against Mr. Zimmerman in this article by Andrew McCarthy, if you haven't seen the link in the other thread devoted to this incident.

Martin Case Affidavit - By Andrew C. McCarthy - The Corner - National Review Online (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/295997/martin-case-affidavit-andrew-c-mccarthy)

Seems way too cynical to me.

Here's the article Andrew McCarthy is criticizing. It is by David French.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/295942/three-legal-keys-trayvon-martin-affidavit-david-french

[PennBF]

As I understand the law: If it is self defense then the person is responsible to rurn and try to get away before using any force. If "Stand your Ground" all the person has to prove is they were being threatened and they have a right to stand where they are and defend themselves (e.g. they do not have to run away).
The other considerations are the attempts by some, (we know who they are) to try to make this a "racial" issue. Under the circumstances that is dispictable.:read:

[buggyone]

It appears that the State is making it's case against Zimmerman by the police operator advising him not to follow Martin. Zimmerman ignored it and went to confront Martin. If he was not following Martin, this tragic incident would not have happened.

[CMANN]

It appears that the State is making it's case against Zimmerman by the police operator advising him not to follow Martin. Zimmerman ignored it and went to confront Martin. If he was not following Martin, this tragic incident would not have happened.

your entire post is total supposition.

The 911 operators words were "we don't need you to do that." You do see the difference, don't you?

[CMANN]

Let me try to explain this as best I can. Let me compare state of Florida and my home state.

If someone breaks into your house while you're home and you are in fear you might shoot him and claim self-defense. Where I come from the first thing that would be examined is were you able to run away, run out the back door? If the coroner's inquest or anybody else thinks that you should have run out the back door then you're going to be arrested and charged.

If you are walking down the street and an assailant approaches you with the obvious intent to do great bodily harm and you shoot him, the first thing they will ask this could you have run away. If the coroner's inquest or anybody else thinks that you should have run away you will be arrested and prosecuted.

Now let's look at Florida. Look at the stand your ground law. It does not come into effect until after the shooting. In Florida you are not required to leave your home or castle a.k.a. Castle law in order to defend yourself.

In Florida you are under no obligation to leave any place that you are legally in order to defend yourself.

The merits of self-defense will be determined at some time in Florida. And the state where I came from you are already in trouble even if it was self-defense.

That is my best practical understanding of the Florida Castle law and stand your ground law. I think it's pretty accurate if not oversimplified.

Just my opinion.

PS my home state does not recognize your inherent right to protect yourself. There are several who do not. Washington DC comes to mind. There are others.

[RichieLion]

It appears that the State is making it's case against Zimmerman by the police operator advising him not to follow Martin. Zimmerman ignored it and went to confront Martin. If he was not following Martin, this tragic incident would not have happened.

Maybe not complying with the 911 dispatcher's advisory was a stupid decision, but Mr. Zimmerman was under no legal requirement to do so. I don't see how that can be used as a charge against him.

[paulandjean]

We will have to wait until the court starts their process.Glad he is in jail,only thing he should have been there from the night of the shooting. Still think Sanford Police did poor job without charging him.

[redwitch]

Richie, I was a legal secretary for over 30 years. I, too, have read the prosecutor's complaint in this case. Yes, it is vague -- complaints usually are. You state enough to get your case into court, not enough to lay everything on the table, especially since investigation and time can change things -- this is true whether it is civil or criminal. So, I take Mr. McCarthy's opinions as just that -- opinions. Nothing more, nothing less. He's entitled to his, I'm entitled to mine, you're entitled to yours.

[Pturner]

Stand your ground has nothing to do with it. Seld-defense or not self-defense, that is the question.

It seems to me that self-defense laws are more "pro life," if you will. In a self-defense case, taking another's life is acceptable as a last resort. In a "stand your ground" defense, taking another's life is acceptable as a first resort.

If Martin was talking to his girlfriend on the cellphone, as she claims, and he expressed fear of a man following him, it is plausible that "an altercation ensued" because Martin was trying to stand his ground. Perhaps they were both scared of each other and tried to stand their ground.

If Martin was just an unarmed kid making his way home from the store and not out looking for trouble, it's sad he had to die, regardless of whether a crime was committed when he was shot.

Without any "hard evident" that might become available as the case makes its way through the justice system, (such as forensics, voice analysis of the screams, any physical clues, etc.) I don't have a position on what happened.

[Taltarzac725]

Right of self-defense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_self-defense)

Stand your ground law (NY Times 2006) http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/07/us/07shoot.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

"Many prosecutors oppose the laws, saying they are unnecessary at best and pernicious at worst. 'They’re basically giving citizens more rights to use deadly force than we give police officers, and with less review,' said Paul A. Logli, president of the National District Attorneys Association." from above NYT article.

This is a timely article from Detroit-- http://www.freep.com/article/20120415/NEWS07/204150628/Florida-killing-will-test-limits-of-self-defense

[CMANN]

Right of self-defense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_self-defense)

Stand your ground law (NY Times 2006) http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/07/us/07shoot.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

"Many prosecutors oppose the laws, saying they are unnecessary at best and pernicious at worst. 'They’re basically giving citizens more rights to use deadly force than we give police officers, and with less review,' said Paul A. Logli, president of the National District Attorneys Association." from above NYT article.

This is a timely article from Detroit-- Florida killing will test limits of self-defense | Detroit Free Press | freep.com (http://www.freep.com/article/20120415/NEWS07/204150628/Florida-killing-will-test-limits-of-self-defense)

If I understand you correctly, you are against people defending themselves. You want the killer punished even if it was self-defense. What is not to like about the law. It is good for the good guy and bad for thebad guy. What if it were you?


All the SYG law does is to prevent prosecution if it is believed to be self-defense and to protect the defender from civil suit if it was a lawful killing.

[janmcn]

What is being missed here is that a person is not allowed to be the persuer and turn around and say they were standing their ground, otherwise every drive-by shooter in the country could say they were standing their ground. Hopefully, with George Zimmerman in jail facing life in prison, this will give other potential shooter's pause when they think they can get away with it under the stand your ground law. We should know a lot more in this case after the judge's decision next Friday and Zimmerman's testimony.

[CMANN]

What is being missed here is that a person is not allowed to be the persuer and turn around and say they were standing their ground, otherwise every drive-by shooter in the country could say they were standing their ground. Hopefully, with George Zimmerman in jail facing life in prison, this will give other potential shooter's pause when they think they can get away with it under the stand your ground law. We should know a lot more in this case after the judge's decision next Friday and Zimmerman's testimony.

Persuit:
act of chasing after something: the act of chasing after somebody or something in order to catch, attack, or overtake that person or thing

Persuit hasn't been proven. To follow is not to chase.

Would you have a person pause and end up dead? You have a very low opinion of law abiding citizens. It is not the law abiding citizen who wantenly rape, pillage and murder it is the criminal. They don't care about the law.

What will you say if the court finds that it was a case of self-defense? I'd love to know.

[kirk1]

Without any "hard evident" that might become available as the case makes its way through the justice system, (such as forensics, voice analysis of the screams, any physical clues, etc.) I don't have a position on what happened.


:agree: :BigApplause:

[buggyone]

Persuit:
act of chasing after something: the act of chasing after somebody or something in order to catch, attack, or overtake that person or thing

Persuit hasn't been proven. To follow is not to chase.

Would you have a person pause and end up dead? You have a very low opinion of law abiding citizens. It is not the law abiding citizen who wantenly rape, pillage and murder it is the criminal. They don't care about the law.

What will you say if the court finds that it was a case of self-defense? I'd love to know.

Do you agree that Zimmerman would have been a lot better off if he had obeyed the police operator telling him not to follow Martin? He would still be in his Sanford condo instead of the Sanford slammer - and facing a second degree murder charge.

[dillywho]

Persuit:
act of chasing after something: the act of chasing after somebody or something in order to catch, attack, or overtake that person or thing

Persuit hasn't been proven. To follow is not to chase.

Would you have a person pause and end up dead? You have a very low opinion of law abiding citizens. It is not the law abiding citizen who wantenly rape, pillage and murder it is the criminal. They don't care about the law.

What will you say if the court finds that it was a case of self-defense? I'd love to know.

You're right, following is not chasing. It is often referred to as stalking. Why would you assume that Martin was not or at the very least attempting to be a law abiding citizen tha night?

Zimmerman's claim was that Martin was someone he didn't know and was acting "suspicious" (didn't exactly define suspicious, tho) and he thought he was on drugs or something. Where or what is his basis for determining and/or assuming someone is on drugs? Much has been said of both their pasts, but that night Zimmerman didn't know anything about Martin and Martin didn't know anything about Zimmerman, so both their previous transgressions are moot.

Put yourself in Trayvon's shoes for a minute. He was being followed by someone HE didn't know. From all indications thus far he was simply on his way home on foot doing nothing wrong. This person that he did not know, did not identify himself in any way, was not even in a marked vehicle, begins following him. Suppose he might have been afraid? He started running toward the back door presumedly of the home where he was staying with Zimmerman in hot pursuit (Zimmerman could be heard on one of the 911 tapes saying, "He ran".

Clearly stated on the neighborhood watch sign is that "suspicious behavior would result in the summoning of the authorities" (paraphrased) which Zimmerman had done. No where did it state that someone from the neighborhood would follow on foot. To me, this is where Zimmerman made his mistake....not following protocol. Had he done so, there would be no discussion, no charges, no one dead. Because of his actions after his initial call, many lives have been ruined.

[Taltarzac725]

Bill Cosby: Trayvon Martin Case About Guns, Not Race (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/15/bill-cosby-trayvon-martin-case-guns-race_n_1426671.html)

We will have to wait and see if the authorities find that the stand your ground law applies in the Zimmerman case. I doubt though that a good argument can be made that this was self-defense. Without that law, Zimmerman's goose looks like it is cooked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/

[Taltarzac725]

If I understand you correctly, you are against people defending themselves. You want the killer punished even if it was self-defense. What is not to like about the law. It is good for the good guy and bad for thebad guy. What if it were you?


All the SYG law does is to prevent prosecution if it is believed to be self-defense and to protect the defender from civil suit if it was a lawful killing.

I posted some links but stated no opinion about defending oneself. Look at the Florida SYG law. It is so poorly written that it could be used to justify murder. If a neighbor had a heated argument with another neighbor and a gun was handy just such an incident could occur. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

Neighbor shoots neighbor over number of trash bags on curb and argument about this issue--http://caribbeancricket.com/topic/1016897

[janmcn]

Rep Dennis Baxley, the prime sponsor of the "stand your ground" law in 2005, has stated that the law does not apply in the Trayvon Martin case, as did Jeb Bush, the governor who signed the law. Special Prosecutor, Angela Corey, is the only person that has seen all the evidence in this case, and based on that evidence, she charged George Zimmerman with second degree murder the highest charge she could file without a grand jury.

Ms Corey has the evidence collected by Sanford Police, Florida Department of Law Enforcement, her own investigators and the FBI. The key evidence will probably be the autopsy report, which will show if Martin was in a fight and the trajectory of the bullet; and Zimmerman's hospital report, which will show what injuries he sustained.


Trayvon Martin's alleged attacker not covered under law I wrote | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/03/21/trayvon-martins-alleged-attacker-not-covered-under-law-wrote/)

[CMANN]

Do you agree that Zimmerman would have been a lot better off if he had obeyed the police operator telling him not to follow Martin? He would still be in his Sanford condo instead of the Sanford slammer - and facing a second degree murder charge.

I do not know that he didn't take the operators advice. The 911 operator said "we don't need you to do that," refering to following Trayvon. Zimmerman replied, "okay." One would presume that he agreed with the operator. Perhars he did or perhaps he didn't. There is no proof either way. Lacking any proof to the contrary, we'll have to take his word for it. Innocent until proven guilty is the law of the land.

It may have happened just as Zimmerman said. Then what?

[RichieLion]

You need to get educated on the laws in Florida. That is not what I said. The "Stand Your Ground" law has specific things that have to happen before you can claim self defense.

With what is happening right now, it will take a court and jury to decide if "Stand Your Ground" applies. He was told not to follow the individual and if that is true and he stopped and Martin attacked him then it might apply, otherwise maybe not. But no one knows for sure what happened so until that is all that is sort out, it is best not to second guess what the out come will be.

I still say and teach all my students that the best defense is your cell phone and to be aware of your surrounds so that you don't get into a situation, if at all possible, where you will be required to "Stand HYour Ground," and be forced to use deadly force.

Home invasions are different. If someone is breaking into your home and they know that you are home, they are not bringing you Easter eggs and a warm greeting. Defend your home, but when in public, be aware and avoid trouble, even if you have to cross the street. Using deadly force on someone is a life changing event. One that you will not like.

I have to defer in your view of Zimmerman and Martin.

If the 911 Dispatcher told Zimmerman "we don't need you to do that", which is reported, and Zimmerman followed Martin anyway, it's not a violation of law. Even if the dispatcher "ordered" Zimmerman to desist from following Martin, it's not against the law if Zimmerman continued. He was under no legal obligation to heed the warning of the 911 dispatcher.

It might have been stupid, but you've already addressed people with guns who are stupid.

Now, if Martin attacked Zimmerman as is reported, that is assault. If Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk, the sidewalk is considered a weapon, in my opinion.

Nowhere was it ever said that Zimmerman brandished his weapon. I don't believe Martin would have attacked Zimmerman in the manner he did if he knew Zimmerman was armed.

Of course I have no way to really know that, but it's a reasonable assumption.

[Figmo Bohica]

Richielion, you are correct with the sidewalk being a weapon. Only two people know what really happened and one of those isn't talking. So I, for one, will not make any decision of what, when, where, how or why until all the evidence is brought out and a jury makes the final decision. I might not agree with them, as in the Casey court, but we have to go with what a jury decides.

Not heeding the directions of the 911 operator might or could be used against Zimmerman, as he was told that a officer was in route. We will just have to wait and see. But you are right, Zimmerman could do has he pleased and did not have to heed the 911 instructions. But I think he could have saved himself a lot of heart ache if he had.

About Martin attacking Zimmerman, you have to remember that Martin was a 17 year old kid and they don't make the best decisions on anything. He might not have cared one way or the other. We will never know.

[buggyone]

I have to defer in your view of Zimmerman and Martin.

If the 911 Dispatcher told Zimmerman "we don't need you to do that", which is reported, and Zimmerman followed Martin anyway, it's not a violation of law. Even if the dispatcher "ordered" Zimmerman to desist from following Martin, it's not against the law if Zimmerman continued. He was under no legal obligation to heed the warning of the 911 dispatcher.

It might have been stupid, but you've already addressed people with guns who are stupid.

Now, if Martin attacked Zimmerman as is reported, that is assault. If Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk, the sidewalk is considered a weapon, in my opinion.

Nowhere was it ever said that Zimmerman brandished his weapon. I don't believe Martin would have attacked Zimmerman in the manner he did if he knew Zimmerman was armed.

Of course I have no way to really know that, but it's a reasonable assumption.

No matter if Zimmerman was in the right or in the wrong - I think we can both agree his life will never be the same again - and not in a good way.

[Posh 08]

No matter if Zimmerman was in the right or in the wrong - I think we can both agree his life will never be the same again - and not in a good way.

That would be a good assumption, however, one day i'll tell you a tale that rebuts that view.

[CMANN]

No matter if Zimmerman was in the right or in the wrong - I think we can both agree his life will never be the same again - and not in a good way.

Because of people of a particular ilk.

[RichieLion]

No matter if Zimmerman was in the right or in the wrong - I think we can both agree his life will never be the same again - and not in a good way.

You're right; his life will never be the same, and maybe it would have been his life that ended that night.

Maybe if he wasn't armed he might be dead or in a coma now, or to some other extent badly injured, if he was not able to stop the alleged brutal assault of Martin. Of course, that's assuming the tale is as told by him.

[paulandjean]

Geezzzz, You write--"If he was not able to stop the alleged ,"brutal assault of Martin". You have to be kidding,The guy was punched what one or two times in the nose. Sure did not look like he was brutalized walking out of that police car.Think half the people discussing this never have been in a fight their whole life.Just because you are taking some licks,you do not open up on him.Man Up Guys.

[JoeC1947]

Geezzzz, You write--"If he was not able to stop the alleged ,"brutal assault of Martin". You have to be kidding,The guy was punched what one or two times in the nose. Sure did not look like he was brutalized walking out of that police car.Think half the people discussing this never have been in a fight their whole life.Just because you are taking some licks,you do not open up on him.Man Up Guys.

The key word is "alleged"

[RichieLion]

Geezzzz, You write--"If he was not able to stop the alleged ,"brutal assault of Martin". You have to be kidding,The guy was punched what one or two times in the nose. Sure did not look like he was brutalized walking out of that police car.Think half the people discussing this never have been in a fight their whole life.Just because you are taking some licks,you do not open up on him.Man Up Guys.

"punched in the nose"?; Geezzz, haven't you seen the released picture of the back of his head that seems to support his story of having his head slammed into the concrete by Martin??

You make lot of assumptions with little to go on.

Here's a link if you're actually interested in evidence contrary to your early conviction of Mr. Zimmerman.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/new_photo_shows_zimmerman_bloody_H0OsgAUdCP4CdBfZh pcM2K

[paulandjean]

Who released the pictures,and when? Did not see anything like that out of the police car. Did he seek medical attention?This Trayvon was not a big kid. Losing end in a skuffle and pulls out his piece. Never should have been caring one in the first place. People need to be trained is firearms to carry one. I for do not carry,because I have a short fuse. However I am trained in self defense.

[Taltarzac725]

"punched in the nose"?; Geezzz, haven't you seen the released picture of the back of his head that seems to support his story of having his head slammed into the concrete by Martin??

You make lot of assumptions with little to go on.

Here's a link if you're actually interested in evidence contrary to your early conviction of Mr. Zimmerman.
Bail set at $150K for George Zimmerman as he apologizes to Trayvon Martin's family for fatal shooting - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/new_photo_shows_zimmerman_bloody_H0OsgAUdCP4CdBfZh pcM2K)

They look like scratches not concussions. http://www.punditpress.com/2012/04/george-zimmerman-injury-photo.html

Remember that George Zimmerman did not have any bandages on his head 25 minutes after he was in this "fight". I get a bandage for my arm when I give blood which should stay on 4 hours. This is for a needle stick.

[janmcn]

NBC News is reporting that the Sanford City Commission is voting on the police chief, Bill Lee's resignation. Apparently, the investigation has proven that the Sanford Police Department did not do an adequate job. Why else would he be forced to resign?

We may know more details of the case this week when they are released because of news media filing suit under the freedom of information act.

[rubicon]

Interesting: Every News organiozation in the world has been reporting on this tragic event in Sanford Florida. Not One word in the Daily Sun, The Fun Only Newsletter.It is a shame they call themselves a news organization.

that makes me want to renew my subscription to the Daily Sun

[chuckinca]

They look like scratches not concussions. Pundit Press: George Zimmerman Injury Photo (http://www.punditpress.com/2012/04/george-zimmerman-injury-photo.html)

Remember that George Zimmerman did not have any bandages on his head 25 minutes after he was in this "fight". I get a bandage for my arm when I give blood which should stay on 4 hours. This is for a needle stick.


I recently fell playing pickleball and got a scrape on my elbow about 3 inches long by 1/2 inch wide. Put some antiseptic on it when I got home two hours later - it is too long and too wide for a band-aid. I believe I've seen a picture of Mr Zimmerman's head showing a scab similar to the one I have.

.

[RichieLion]

They look like scratches not concussions. Pundit Press: George Zimmerman Injury Photo (http://www.punditpress.com/2012/04/george-zimmerman-injury-photo.html)

Remember that George Zimmerman did not have any bandages on his head 25 minutes after he was in this "fight". I get a bandage for my arm when I give blood which should stay on 4 hours. This is for a needle stick.

You have training in forensics that can make you identify the cause and extent of an injury through the use of a photograph?

You're taking a lot for granted, and with an obvious prejudice I might add.

[Patty55]

Here is a copy of the police report...

http://media.myfoxchicago.com/pdf/zimmerman-report.pdf

Page 3 discusses Zimmerman injuries.

[CMANN]

Who released the pictures,and when? Did not see anything like that out of the police car. Did he seek medical attention?This Trayvon was not a big kid. Losing end in a skuffle and pulls out his piece. Never should have been caring one in the first place. People need to be trained is firearms to carry one. I for do not carry,because I have a short fuse. However I am trained in self defense.

Trayvon was well over 6 feet. 6'3 or 4". You are looking at propaganda photos.

[CMANN]

Here is a copy of the police report...

http://media.myfoxchicago.com/pdf/zimmerman-report.pdf

Page 3 discusses Zimmerman injuries.

Enough said.

[buggyone]

CMANN,

Can we agree that George Zimmerman, whether or not he was in the right AND whether or not he is found guilty of murder or not found guilty, that his life will not the same as before - and not for the better?

If he is found guilty, he will go to prison.

If found not guilty, he will be a hated person by a large group of people (New Black Panthers, maybe) and will probably have to move, change his name, and still possibly be harmed by someone at some future time for killing Martin.

[manaboutown]

CMANN,

Can we agree that George Zimmerman, whether or not he was in the right AND whether or not he is found guilty of murder or not found guilty, that his life will not the same as before - and not for the better?

If he is found guilty, he will go to prison.

If found not guilty, he will be a hated person by a large group of people (New Black Panthers, maybe) and will probably have to move, change his name, and still possibly be harmed by someone at some future time for killing Martin.

Zimmerman and members of his family have been receiving death threats. A lot of very bad people are out to get him, whether he is guilty of any crime or not.

[manaboutown]

NBC News is reporting that the Sanford City Commission is voting on the police chief, Bill Lee's resignation. Apparently, the investigation has proven that the Sanford Police Department did not do an adequate job. Why else would he be forced to resign?

We may know more details of the case this week when they are released because of news media filing suit under the freedom of information act.

NBC again, that 911 call transcription editing disinformation disseminating outfit? What investigation of Bill Lee Jr.? NO investigation of Bill Lee Jr. has PROVEN anything. He is NOT being forced to resign. He wanted to resign but the City Commission refused.

[buggyone]

Zimmerman and members of his family have been receiving death threats. A lot of very bad people are out to get him, whether he is guilty of any crime or not.

So, you also agree that Zimmerman's life will never be the same as it was before he killed Martin. I am just stating this to emphasize that probably Zimmerman would NOT have followed Martin with a pistol IF he had thought of the ramifications that have taken place since the killing - no matter if he was in the right or not - and no matter if he is found guilty or not guilty.

[manaboutown]

So, you also agree that Zimmerman's life will never be the same as it was before he killed Martin. I am just stating this to emphasize that probably Zimmerman would NOT have followed Martin with a pistol IF he had thought of the ramifications that have taken place since the killing - no matter if he was in the right or not - and no matter if he is found guilty or not guilty.

I agree. Zimmerman's life and his family's life will never be the same. He will have to lead a fugitive existence or obtain a legal change of identity of some sort if it is proven he acted in justifiable self defense and he goes free. Of course if he is convicted and spends time in a prison that is another situation entirely.

From what I read in various reports and from the statements of witnesses it appears Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating the crap out of him, possibly breaking his nose, pounding his head onto the concrete and (I have read in one account) suffocating Zimmerman. After repeatedly calling for help and receiving no assistance Zimmerman, with Martin on top of him, at that point pulled out his pistol and shot Martin. It remains unestablished whether Zimmerman actually pursued Martin and initiated a physical confrontation with him or whether he was returning to his SUV and Martin attacked him. How far was Martin's body from Zimmerman's SUV, a few feet or a block or two away? If nearby it seems to me that Zimmerman was likely returning to his SUV, not chasing Martin and that Martin returned and attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman told the 911 operator that he had lost sight of Martin. So Martin had run some distance away or possibly ducked around a house or found other cover. It further away, "the jury is still out" on who initiated the physical confrontation - sorry for the bad pun.

[paulandjean]

CMAN---Trayvon not 6"3 or 6"4 --- 6'0 160 lbs thin skinny kid

[manaboutown]

CMAN---Trayvon not 6"3 or 6"4 --- 6'0 160 lbs thin skinny kid

A 17 year old kid mature enough to have a good growth of facial hair, 3" taller than Zimmerman and physically strong enough to be on top of Zimmerman beating the crap out of him; a kid who bragged about bashing a bus driver on his facebook postings; a kid on his third suspension from school; a kid whose backpack when opened by a school security guard contained a bag of assorted women's jewelry and a burglary tool.

[Advogado]

CMAN---Trayvon not 6"3 or 6"4 --- 6'0 160 lbs thin skinny kid

The perception that Martin was a "kid" seems to have originated with the media's constant use of his angelic childhood photos rather than his more-menacing recent ones. If you put a 17-year-old in a uniform and give him a gun, he is no kid; he is a "soldier", whose job is killing people and breaking things.

My point is: The fact that Martin was 17 is irrelevant. He either deserved to be shot or he didn't. I have no opinion on that since I don't have all the facts, and neither do you.

[buggyone]

Innocent or guilty - Zimmerman's life will never be the same. He will either go to prison or live with an assumed identity somewhere and will lead the life of a fugitive for fear of being found by those who hate him.

Hopefully, his tragic incident will be a lesson to other drug store cowboys or wannabe policemen.

[Advogado]

Innocent or guilty - Zimmerman's life will never be the same. He will either go to prison or live with an assumed identity somewhere and will lead the life of a fugitive for fear of being found by those who hate him.

Hopefully, his tragic incident will be a lesson to other drug store cowboys or wannabe policemen.

And, if Zimmerman is acquitted, the incident will also be a lesson to hoodlums and muggers.

[paulandjean]

Poor Zimmmerman,Lets strike up the band for him,his life will never be the same,he will have to change his name.people will be after him.Good for him.Thats what happens when you pull a gun out and kill someone.You guys must have never seen a fight in your life. One person describes Zimmerman with his head bash in,unreal.At 17 you still are a kid,young kid ,schoolkid whatever.Zimmerman 3 inches shorter but weight higher.Lets see,follow a teenager in a truck,then follow on foot,and you come face to face,he punches me I shoot him. What did Zimmerman say,"But I called for help and no one came"Lame.He must be pretty stupid. Sure he had no sense dealing with teenagers.Did any of you guys ever have a fight as a teenager,I do not think so.No doubt in my mind Zimmerman will be going to jail. That where he belongs.

[paulandjean]

The fact is a school kid is dead.

[ceejay]

Innocent or guilty - Zimmerman's life will never be the same. He will either go to prison or live with an assumed identity somewhere and will lead the life of a fugitive for fear of being found by those who hate him.

Hopefully, his tragic incident will be a lesson to other drug store cowboys or wannabe policemen.

I think we can all agree that George Zimmerman's life will never be the same regardless of the outcome of the investigation.

[ceejay]

The fact is a school kid is dead.

You are 100% correct...a school kid is dead.

But until the investigation is complete, however, the fact is none of us have all the facts.

We can speculate all we want, but until those speculations are proven as facts, George Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty.

[Advogado]

The fact is a school kid is dead.

Is that worse than Zimmerman's being dead? I don't know, because I don't have all the facts surrounding the incident, and neither do you. Why the rush to convict?

[Patty55]

Hate to muddle anyone's thought process with facts, but they released documents in the case yesterday-gotta love the Florida Sunshine Laws. Here ya'll go...

Angela-Corey-Speech_Page_1 (http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/042312-zimmerman-document-release/1/lg/Angela-Corey-Speech_Page_1.htm)

On page 1 the Special Proscecutor refers to the Martin family as "those sweet parents". What is with that? :ohdear: Maybe it's a Southern Thang.

If anyone would like to further muddle their thinking Richard Hornsby had some interesting thoughts

Legally, Who Was the First Aggressor? – bLAWg, bLOG, BLAHg (http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2012/04/who-was-the-first-aggressor/#comments)

[disney07]

Poor Zimmmerman,Lets strike up the band for him,his life will never be the same,he will have to change his name.people will be after him.Good for him.Thats what happens when you pull a gun out and kill someone.You guys must have never seen a fight in your life. One person describes Zimmerman with his head bash in,unreal.At 17 you still are a kid,young kid ,schoolkid whatever.Zimmerman 3 inches shorter but weight higher.Lets see,follow a teenager in a truck,then follow on foot,and you come face to face,he punches me I shoot him. What did Zimmerman say,"But I called for help and no one came"Lame.He must be pretty stupid. Sure he had no sense dealing with teenagers.Did any of you guys ever have a fight as a teenager,I do not think so.No doubt in my mind Zimmerman will be going to jail. That where he belongs.

:boxing2: Lame! You got that right. Thank you for the verdict. :1rotfl:

[buggyone]

And, if Zimmerman is acquitted, the incident will also be a lesson to hoodlums and muggers.

A lesson to hoodlums and muggers? What are you talking about? Trayvon Martin was walking to his aunt's home returning from a convenience store when this happened. A man (Zimmerman) was following him on a rainy night. Martin confronted the man to ask what was going on - according to Zimmerman.

What do hoodlums and muggers have to do with that situation?

[Barefoot]

A 17 year old kid mature enough to have a good growth of facial hair, 3" taller than Zimmerman and physically strong enough to be on top of Zimmerman beating the crap out of him; a kid who bragged about bashing a bus driver on his facebook postings; a kid on his third suspension from school; a kid whose backpack when opened by a school security guard contained a bag of assorted women's jewelry and a burglary tool.

Are these allegations documented facts, or media speculation or distortion? I'm not doubting you, please don't take this the wrong way. And I don't have an opinion in this case. I'm just curious.

[Taltarzac725]

George Zimmerman witnesses: Several George Zimmerman witnesses change their accounts - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-22/news/os-george-zimmerman-key-witnesses-20120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent)

[skyc6]

I looked at his facebook pages before they were removed and he did brag about the bus driver. All of the pictures had him with groups of hooded guys giving the finger, looking very thug-like. Now all you see is his 12 year old smiling picture.
Young black males are murdered every night in this country, often by other black males in rival gangs, and they rarely make the news after the first night. This whole scenario has been orchestrated by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, who have now left town, since it doesn't benefit them to stay now. Why don't they have anything to say about all of the other murders committed by young black youths?

[CMANN]

George Zimmerman witnesses: Several George Zimmerman witnesses change their accounts - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-22/news/os-george-zimmerman-key-witnesses-20120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent)

I think that I'm starting to smell a rat here. A witness intimidation rat. I'm not sure who is doing it but it sure smells.

[paulandjean]

Thanks for Jackson and Sharpton shedding light on this case.Now sure about young black male being killed by rival black gangs males often nightly in this country. Could same be said for white or hispantic youth.

[Taltarzac725]

I think that I'm starting to smell a rat here. A witness intimidation rat. I'm not sure who is doing it but it sure smells.

The defense should be able to discredit their testimony if such is the case. Witnesses are very unreliable anyway especially in this kind of situation where you have a fight at night which becomes a very high profile case.

[Advogado]

Thanks for Jackson and Sharpton shedding light on this case.Now sure about young black male being killed by rival black gangs males often nightly in this country. Could same be said for white or hispantic youth.

Sharpton and Jackson did not throw light on this case. In the absence of facts, Sharpton and Jackson prejudged it, got a lot of other people to do the same by inciting the media to report the matter in a way that completely distorted the facts, and needlessly stirred up racial hatred for their own benefit.

I'm not defending Zimmerman. All the facts are not public yet. However, he is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

[CMANN]

The first time that witnesses gave their testimony there were simply witnesses to something that happened. They gave their account as they believed that they saw it.

The second time the witnesses gave their testimony they were afraid. They thought better of endangering themselves. The obvious race madness that had taken place since their first testimony has put them in fear of their lives and their families.

I can understand why they would change their stories. They did change their stories. It's too bad because they may end up getting themselves in trouble anyway.

Also, they may very well have guaranteed Zimmermans acquittal.

Just my opinion

[skyc6]

There are many ethnic gangs in the United States, and there are murders everyday in this country. I don't know where you are from, but you must watch the national news, occasionally. An example would be Gangster disciples and Vice lords--typically black gangs involved in drug trade, and they are continually fighting over teritory. My point is when a black male kills another black male, there is about 15 minutes of fame, but as soon as a white male kills a black male, Jackson and Sharpton come and cry "racist" and the media frenzy starts. It is not always racist--it is most often violence and anger and drugs. None of it is right, and it will be impossible to have a fair trial.

[CMANN]

As long as there are people who refuse to cower in the night we will have a reasonable sense of security from the thugs on the street. If they think that you are cowering in the night they will kill you. If they think that they could be killed they will leave you alone. They don't want to die either.

[Advogado]

Cops: Miami face-eating attack one of the 'goriest scenes' we've ever seen - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/cops-miami-face-eating-attack-goriest-scenes-ve-article-1.1086364?localLinksEnabled=false)

[Warren Kiefer]

Interesting: Every News organiozation in the world has been reporting on this tragic event in Sanford Florida. Not One word in the Daily Sun, The Fun Only Newsletter.It is a shame they call themselves a news organization.

The Daily Sun was and is a forum for the Republican party. You do get some local news, unfortunately the reporters usually get the details wrong. There are definately news worthy items that are left out of the news, sink holes, crimes , etc. I challenge anyone to show me a political cartoon making light of the republican party and yet there is one pokink fun at Obama almost every day. Another challenge would be to have someone write a letter to the editor that is developer or Villages negative.

[graciegirl]

The Daily Sun was and is a forum for the Republican party. You do get some local news, unfortunately the reporters usually get the details wrong. There are definately news worthy items that are left out of the news, sink holes, crimes , etc. I challenge anyone to show me a political cartoon making light of the republican party and yet there is one pokink fun at Obama almost every day. Another challenge would be to have someone write a letter to the editor that is developer or Villages negative.

You are right about the Republican slant of The Daily Sun. The Orlando Sentinel has a Democratic slant. The Boston Globe has a slant, The New York Times has a slant, and it depends on what you are used to or whether that is your slant if you agree with it or if you see a slant or not. I lived all of my life in the midwest and The Daily Sun mirrors The Columbus Dispatch and the Cincinnati Enquirer and the Indianapolis paper in it's political leanings and in their picks of editorial writers.

HOWEVER, I disagree with you that The Daily Sun fails to have news of sinkholes, crimes and even printed the news of the The Morses being sited for hunting violations in Montana. It prints the police blotter with all three counties arrests. It has had several articles about the Trayvon Martin shooting. I read it through every day.

It is owned by the Morse family and the Morse family's business is to sell houses. They are also large contributors to the Republican party and only invite Republican candidates to speak here. NEVER Democratic candidates. We are all old enough to figure that out. I personally have no problem with the Sun. And since an overwhelming majority of people here agree with the politics, it does just fine.

[Taltarzac725]

Democratic candidates have visited the Villages though. I seem to remember a bus carrying the VP candidate--Joe Biden-- making a stop in Spanish Springs Square back in 2008. It did not get much press in The Villages Daily Sun but there was a little bit of it. Not the front page extravaganza that Sarah Palin's trip here about the same time got. Biden visit: Stopping at a Villages ice cream shop | Ocala.com (http://www.ocala.com/article/20081028/NEWS/810280979)

With respect to candidate Obama; he made it to Ocala and Orlando but never to TV that I recall back in 2008.

As to the slant of our local paper, they do report negative press in the Villages Daily Sun just not as often as other papers which seem to revel in it.

I have seen Letters to the Editor though that are critical of Republican candidates and such. You probably will never see featured Democratic commentators along with Ann Coulter though in the Op-Ed pages.

IMHO, The Sun has handled the Trayvon Martin case rather well.

[Golfer in Sanibel]

I apologize if this has been posted before. There are so many posts here I didn't read them all. But I thought I'd throw this into the mix. Obama and politics aside, what do you think about the media using a 5 year old photo?


They don't show the up-to-date pictures of Trayvon Martin, in the media. Now you know why. Kinda scary ain't it?


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/sailohio/Travon.jpg


That old adage applies here. . . "there are two sides to every story" . . .we don't always get the truth from the media (in my experience there's 3 sides - your side, my side, and what really happened).
One of my favorite rants...the liberal controlled media...television news...newspapers...magazines...radio...all continue to show 12 year old Trayvon...NOT 17 year old Trayvon...they continue to show the 5 year old picture BECAUSE it helps to cement in your mind the little, cute, Hoodie wearing youngster who was stalked by this monster
.
In reality.."little Trayvon"...at the time of his death...stood almost 6'2" tall...weighed 175 muscular pounds...had numerous run ins with authorities (both at school and local police)...had been stopped and almost arrested two days before his death for...smacking a bus driver in the face...because the driver refused to let him ride for free...he was released because the driver was told not to press charges by the bus company and to continue on his route.
When "little Trayvon" was suspended at school...it was not only because he tried to bring a little marijuana in with him...he was in possession of wedding rings and other jewelry...watches etc. That he said he "found" along with a large screwdriver...while on the way to school that day...the jewelry was turned over to the Police by the school. I am not trying to say this was a good shooting...
I am not trying to say this kid deserved to die...I am saying...the media in the USA is controlled by liberals who twist and distort what you see and hear in order for you to see things their way.
Not a single paper has printed RECENT photos of this kid...because...it would not keep your interest in this case... Not a single paper will admit that this kid was a marijuana dealer...his friends on Facebook all say he had the "best plants"...not a single paper will show you any of his recent photos where he shows off a mouthful of gold teeth....all of his tattoos...not a single paper will tell the news like it really is....and NOT how they want you to think it is...

A fair and impartial news media in the USA ? No. One that does not follow the liberal agenda? Nope. Are they helping to further divide this already fractured Nation? Yes, they are!

[janmcn]

You have two infractions on this one post. First, you are not allowed to mention a politician on a non-political post. Second, you are not allowed to make a racial slur even if you are quoting something. We must be respectful on this forum.

[Patty55]

You have two infractions on this one post. First, you are not allowed to mention a politician on a non-political post. Second, you are not allowed to make a racial slur even if you are quoting something. We must be respectful on this forum.

I believe the "racial slur" was Trayvon's facebook user name.

[Patty55]

I apologize if this has been posted before. There are so many posts here I didn't read them all. But I thought I'd throw this into the mix. Obama and politics aside, what do you think about the media using a 5 year old photo?


They don't show the up-to-date pictures of Trayvon Martin, in the media. Now you know why. Kinda scary ain't it?


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/sailohio/Travon.jpg


That old adage applies here. . . "there are two sides to every story" . . .we don't always get the truth from the media (in my experience there's 3 sides - your side, my side, and what really happened).
One of my favorite rants...the liberal controlled media...television news...newspapers...magazines...radio...all continue to show 12 year old Trayvon...NOT 17 year old Trayvon...they continue to show the 5 year old picture BECAUSE it helps to cement in your mind the little, cute, Hoodie wearing youngster who was stalked by this monster
.
In reality.."little Trayvon"...at the time of his death...stood almost 6'2" tall...weighed 175 muscular pounds...had numerous run ins with authorities (both at school and local police)...had been stopped and almost arrested two days before his death for...smacking a bus driver in the face...because the driver refused to let him ride for free...he was released because the driver was told not to press charges by the bus company and to continue on his route.
When "little Trayvon" was suspended at school...it was not only because he tried to bring a little marijuana in with him...he was in possession of wedding rings and other jewelry...watches etc. That he said he "found" along with a large screwdriver...while on the way to school that day...the jewelry was turned over to the Police by the school. I am not trying to say this was a good shooting...
I am not trying to say this kid deserved to die...I am saying...the media in the USA is controlled by liberals who twist and distort what you see and hear in order for you to see things their way.
Not a single paper has printed RECENT photos of this kid...because...it would not keep your interest in this case... Not a single paper will admit that this kid was a marijuana dealer...his friends on Facebook all say he had the "best plants"...not a single paper will show you any of his recent photos where he shows off a mouthful of gold teeth....all of his tattoos...not a single paper will tell the news like it really is....and NOT how they want you to think it is...
President King Obama...looked at the FIVE year old photo the media chose to show the Nation...and said..."If I had a son...he would look like Trayvon" So from that comment...should I assume you did not bother to look for the facts in this shooting..or should I assume you want a son who is a 17 year old drug dealing, gold teethed thug whose name on one of his Facebook profiles was "wild n****"...who 'finds" jewelry and burglary tools on the way to school ?
A fair and impartial news media in the USA ? No. One that does not follow the liberal agenda? Nope. Are they helping to further divide this already fractured Nation? Yes, they are!


:bigbow: I removed the slur from my quote.

Now let's talk about the parents....

Why did they copyright "I am Trayvon" & "Justice for Trayvon". The only reason I know to copyright is $$$$.

Why did they give consent for the tattoos?

How come when the father and his girlfriend came home they didn't know anything had happened till the next morning?

[paulandjean]

In our country,people who speak up for injustice of others are known as national heros. Sharpton and Jesse Jackson spoke of the Travon Martin injustice that was going on just days after the shooting with nothing being done. Should you not think that these men should be awarded the same honor. I do.

[Golfer in Sanibel]

You have two infractions on this one post. First, you are not allowed to mention a politician on a non-political post. Second, you are not allowed to make a racial slur even if you are quoting something. We must be respectful on this forum.

Sorry. I didn't intend to violate rules. I have deleted the offending paragraph. But please keep in mind these are not my words. I copied and pasted an email I received to stimulate discussion.

What do you think of the subject of the post?

:popcorn:

[Patty55]

in our country,people who speak up for injustice of others are known as national heros. Sharpton and jesse jackson spoke of the travon martin injustice that was going on just days after the shooting with nothing being done. Should you not think that these men should be awarded the same honor. I do.

nope

[Bogie Shooter]

Things are not always as they seem to be.
Receiving an email, does not mean the contents are true. One should check out the validity of the email before sending on to your whole email list or posting on the Internet.
The photo above is actually of rapper Jayceon Terrel.
Go to Snopes.com and search on Trayvon Martin.

[Golfer in Sanibel]

Things are not always as they seem to be.
Receiving an email, does not mean the contents are true. One should check out the validity of the email before sending on to your whole email list or posting on the Internet.
The photo above is actually of rapper Jayceon Terrel.
Go to Snopes.com and search on Trayvon Martin.

Good point. I'm guilty as charged, if that is true. :icon_wink:

[Patty55]

Trayvon did in fact have tattoos and gold grillwork on his teeth. These pictures are from Trayvon's twitter account-(sorry I don't know how to post only the photo.)

http://the-american-journal.com/trayvon-tattoos-gold-teeth-drugs-violence/

[Bogie Shooter]

Trayvon did in fact have tattoos and gold grillwork on his teeth. These pictures are from Trayvon's twitter account-(sorry I don't know how to post only the photo.)

http://the-american-journal.com/trayvon-tattoos-gold-teeth-drugs-violence/

Or, in fact is this the other Trayvon Martin whose picture was incorrectly posted on many sites, that later made retractions that the photo was not the Marting that was killed?
On the "other" Martin's face book page it said he went Myers Middle School not Dr Michael M Krup Senior High School where the dead Martin attended.
Also on the "other" Martin's page it listed that his relatives lived in Savannah, Ga.
This information can also be viewed on Snopes.

[Patty55]

Or, in fact is this the other Trayvon Martin whose picture was incorrectly posted on many sites, that later made retractions that the photo was not the Marting that was killed?
On the "other" Martin's face book page it said he went Myers Middle School not Dr Michael M Krup Senior High School where the dead Martin attended.
Also on the "other" Martin's page it listed that his relatives lived in Savannah, Ga.
This information can also be viewed on Snopes.

This Trayvon has his mother's name tattooed on his arm. I don't think some random rapper would do that.

[hulahips]

Martin was NOT shot because he was black. Zimmerman was NOT a racist. He tutored black kids. The media would like you to believe that as would Jessie Jackson, Sharpton and the rest who spoke up against him. Zimmerman appears to be more Mexican than white. This was all a disgrace how it was handled by the liberal media of course. Zimmermans head was all bloody and could have been the result of being beaten into the ground. Martin's photo of course was Nothing like what he looks like. He is over 6 ft tall, a big guy and had a previous record. What happened? We really don't know that. It could have been self defense. A jury will determine and hopefully it won't turn out to be another OJ case. Someone is out to racially divide up this country??

[janmcn]

I believe the "racial slur" was Trayvon's facebook user name.

Is the point of these posts that Trayvon Martin didn't deserve to live if he looked a certain way or had certain events in his life? It doesn't matter if the "racial slur" was his middle name, using it on this forum is offensive to some people.

[paulandjean]

Get real with those pictures of Travon. He was not anywhere that big or that many pounds. George Zimmerman would never never stop and confront one on one with the pictures being shown here. He was just a high school kid 5'10 160. Travon just being in the wrong place at the wrong time,be confronted by George (Predenting to be a cop) Zimmerman.

[paulandjean]

Pretending

[Patty55]

Is the point of these posts that Trayvon Martin didn't deserve to live if he looked a certain way or had certain events in his life? It doesn't matter if the "racial slur" was his middle name, using it on this forum is unacceptable to some people.

I don't recall anyone saying he didn't deserve to live because of his appearance. If "certain events in his life" is referring to his being suspended from school for drug residue, assaulting a bus driver, getting tattoos while underage... again I would never say he doesn't deserve to live. What I do see is a Person In Need of Supervision and a family needing parenting classes.

Yes, using a racial slur on this board is politically incorrect and unacceptable, (this is why I ediitted out the word when I quoted)but that he chose that slur as his FB name is an indication of his mindset and character.

[janmcn]

I don't recall anyone saying he didn't deserve to live because of his appearance. If "certain events in his life" is referring to his being suspended from school for drug residue, assaulting a bus driver, getting tattoos while underage... again I would never say he doesn't deserve to live. What I do see is a Person In Need of Supervision and a family needing parenting classes.

Yes, using a racial slur on this board is politically incorrect and unacceptable, (this is why I ediitted out the word when I quoted)but that he chose that slur as his FB name is an indication of his mindset and character.

And how do you know his facebook name?

[Patty55]

And how do you know his facebook name?

Excuse me, I made an error, his fb name was Trayvon Slimm Martin, it was his Twitter account that had the "N" word. I know this from MSM reports and seeing screenshots from prior to his death. I am sure that when the Sunshine Laws kick it will be included in a doc dump.

[hdh1470]

Get real with those pictures of Travon. He was not anywhere that big or that many pounds. George Zimmerman would never never stop and confront one on one with the pictures being shown here. He was just a high school kid 5'10 160. Travon just being in the wrong place at the wrong time,be confronted by George (Predenting to be a cop) Zimmerman.

After reading your posts ,You seem to know so much.Were you a witness or just enjoy making thing up.

[janmcn]

Excuse me, I made an error, his fb name was Trayvon Slimm Martin, it was his Twitter account that had the "N" word. I know this from MSM reports and seeing screenshots from prior to his death. I am sure that when the Sunshine Laws kick it will be included in a doc dump.

And how can you trust the MSM reports when all you did was criticize the MSM earlier in the thread?

[Patty55]

And how can you trust the MSM reports when all you did was criticize the MSM earlier in the thread?

You have me confused with some other poster, I never criticized main stream media.

If you check Snopes (incidently not considered MSM), which you seem to find credible, you will see a photo of Trayvon with tattoos shooting the bird.

[manaboutown]

It appears the Martin's attorney has had Trayvon's school records sealed. There must be a LOT to hide there. I also wonder why Trayvon was on a ten day suspension, his third suspension by the way. It surely must take some serious behavioral issue(s) to suspend a student for ten whole days.

I wonder if the police will follow up on these threats? http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-07/news/os-george-zimmerman-old-phone-number-20120606_1_t-mobile-cell-phone-phone-number

Some prosecutor in this case! http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-06/news/os-george-zimmerman-dershowitz-corey-20120606_1_alan-dershowitz-murder-charge-sanford-shooting

[paulandjean]

Thank you. Yes I do have a lot of information about the case.You do know that George Zimmerman has a adult record do you not. Being a former inner city school teacher,I would not put to much merit on Travons school records. As far as drugs,a little pot in a bag is no big deal in todays society.

[lovesports]

George Zimmerman has a criminal record. Add to that, he had the nerve to lie to a Judge.

I know if someone was (following)chasing me, I would turn around and fight for my life.

George should of listened to the police. The police said don't get out of your truck, don't follow. The police were on the way. If George had followed what he was told, there would be no case.

I have no idea how the case will end.

[ceejay]

In our country,people who speak up for injustice of others are known as national heros. Sharpton and Jesse Jackson spoke of the Travon Martin injustice that was going on just days after the shooting with nothing being done. Should you not think that these men should be awarded the same honor. I do.

You are absolutely correct...we should not think that these men should be awarded the same honor.

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson....National Heroes????....There is NO question about it...ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

[ceejay]

Thank you. Yes I do have a lot of information about the case.You do know that George Zimmerman has a adult record do you not. Being a former inner city school teacher,I would not put to much merit on Travons school records. As far as drugs,a little pot in a bag is no big deal in todays society.

PaulandJean...it is absolutely wonderful that you taught in an inner city school...thank you so much for your service to our children.

However...did you happen to live in the inner city in which you taught? Have you actually lived the life or did you return to your suburban home every day at 4:00?

I think that until you have walked the walk and talked the talk in the actual "inner city", people really have no idea what goes on everyday...

[buggyone]

PaulandJean...it is absolutely wonderful that you taught in an inner city school...thank you so much for your service to our children.

However...did you happen to live in the inner city in which you taught? Have you actually lived the life or did you return to your suburban home every day at 4:00?

I think that until you have walked the walk and talked the talk in the actual "inner city", people really have no idea what goes on everyday...

This killing took place in Sanford in a gated community. It did not take place in the inner city. Looks as though Zimmerman will have a lot of time to reflect on what he could have done to prevent the killing from happening. 25 years in prison if found guilty and a lifetime of hiding if found not guilty.

[ceejay]

This killing took place in Sanford in a gated community. It did not take place in the inner city. Looks as though Zimmerman will have a lot of time to reflect on what he could have done to prevent the killing from happening. 25 years in prison if found guilty and a lifetime of hiding if found not guilty.

Ummm...I did not state that the killing took place in the inner city.

I was merely asking PaulandJean if they actually lived in the inner city while teaching there.

But let me ask you a question, Buggyone. If he is found not guilty and, according to you, will have "a lifetime of hiding", do you actually feel that that would be the sentence he deserved? A "lifetime of hiding" even if he is found not guilty.

I opine...you decide.

[Villageshooter]

A Good man will go down because of this , a bunch of do gooders have caused the problem.If you are a punk out there you never know who is packing heat! long live conceal carry.

[paulandjean]

You asked a question and I will give you a answer. Yes I did live in the Inner-City and taught school there. Went to grade school,high school and Junior College for my Associate Degree,before leaving for my Bachelor and Masters.So seems I can speak from experience,not so sure about you.Do not think you have that kind of background.So to say I can walk the walk.Start thinking of what you can do to help those when a unjustice happens.Time to think outside of the box.You will feel much better of yourself.

[buggyone]

A Good man will go down because of this , a bunch of do gooders have caused the problem.If you are a punk out there you never know who is packing heat! long live conceal carry.

Travon Martin was a punk and George Zimmerman a good man? Martin was walking to his aunt's home after buying candy and iced tea. He was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman had no reason to be following him. Zimmerman is the punk - a wannabe cop - who had been arrested for domestic violence in the past.

[ceejay]

You asked a question and I will give you a answer. Yes I did live in the Inner-City and taught school there. Went to grade school,high school and Junior College for my Associate Degree,before leaving for my Bachelor and Masters.So seems I can speak from experience,not so sure about you.Do not think you have that kind of background.So to say I can walk the walk.Start thinking of what you can do to help those when a unjustice happens.Time to think outside of the box.You will feel much better of yourself.

Thank you for your answer...it seems we have very similar backgrounds...I don't understand why you would think I could not have the same kind of history that you have.

Exactly what do you think I should do to help when an unjustice happens?

What do you do?

As far as thinking outside the box...I am trying to gauge this whole incident from both points of view...pretty difficult when none of us knows exactly what happened that night.

You did state that you do have a lot of information about this case...do you know something that we don't know? Please share with us what you know and maybe, just maybe, I could start to feel better about myself.

[paulandjean]

CEEJAY-- I also was the gang information resource at the high school. Spoke to groups many timess,work thru city and local police department. How about you????

[ceejay]

CEEJAY-- I also was the gang information resource at the high school. Spoke to groups many timess,work thru city and local police department. How about you????

Nope...you've got me there.

I only have life experience living and working and dealing with inner city youth...I guess that's what I meant about "walking the walk and talking the talk".

But please, paulandjean...share the information about this case that you have with all of us so that we, me especially, can start thinking outside the box.

[Taltarzac725]

The show Rookie Blue last night was about a police shooting of an African-American by a Caucasian cop in a poor neighborhood's convenience store. The victim had the same initials as Trayvon Martin and was named Tyler Marks. 'Rookie Blue' 'A Good Shoot' Recap: Question... | Gather (http://entertainment.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981383148)

This could just be a co-incidence. Not sure when this Rookie Blue episode was written.

The episode went into the chaos created in the poor gang-infested areas by this cop shooting.

I will not go further into the storyline just in case people taped it and have not watched it yet.

There are some who will hate George Zimmerman no matter what the verdict is as they would not trust the media nor the Sanford PD. There will be others that will always blame Trayvon Martin no matter what the evidence shows.

[buggyone]

Ummm...I did not state that the killing took place in the inner city.

I was merely asking PaulandJean if they actually lived in the inner city while teaching there.

But let me ask you a question, Buggyone. If he is found not guilty and, according to you, will have "a lifetime of hiding", do you actually feel that that would be the sentence he deserved? A "lifetime of hiding" even if he is found not guilty.

I opine...you decide.

No, I do not. My viewpoint is that if found not guilty that Zimmerman is a free man and should be able to walk the streets like you and me.

However, there are many who will revile him - like those do with Casey Anthony - and may want to harm him. That would be wrong but just may happen.

[zcaveman]

Travon Martin was a punk and George Zimmerman a good man? Martin was walking to his aunt's home after buying candy and iced tea. He was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman had no reason to be following him. Zimmerman is the punk - a wannabe cop - who had been arrested for domestic violence in the past.

I agree with you to the point that Martin was walking home, Zimmerman had called it in to the police. He should have left and let the police handle it. He had done his job. It would have been the end of the story.

[Taltarzac725]

George Zimmerman's Old Cell Phone Number Given To Junior Guy In Orlando; Death Threats Begin (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/08/zimmermans-cell-phone_n_1580435.html)

[Bogie Shooter]

George Zimmerman's Old Cell Phone Number Given To Junior Guy In Orlando; Death Threats Begin (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/08/zimmermans-cell-phone_n_1580435.html)

Wow, had not heard that before..............only about 50 times on the Orlando TV stations.

[Posh 08]

Wow, had not heard that before..............only about 50 times on the Orlando TV stations.

Thanks Tal for posting, ahem, for those of us not into the Orlando viewing area yet.