Trayvon Martin

[jflynn1]

Interesting: Every News organiozation in the world has been reporting on this tragic event in Sanford Florida. Not One word in the Daily Sun, The Fun Only Newsletter.It is a shame they call themselves a news organization.

[villages07]

We've been so inundated on this incident by the national news outlets and Orlando stations that I had not paid attention to the Sun's coverage. Can't speak about anything prior to today, but Friday's paper, page c8, has a half page AP article.

[jblum315]

I repeat, I repeat, I repeat: The Daily Sun is not a newspaper. It is an advertising vehicle for the developer, who owns it.

[graciegirl]

.

OH. The original poster was talking about the SUN, not Trayvon Martin. I leapt to the wrong conclusion.

The Sun is liked better by people who are more of the Republican persuasion. It is liked less by real journalists. It is disliked intensely by folks who are more from the Democrats side of the aisle.

The local news coverage is getting better.

It was one of the things I addressed on my survey. Some of the writers are not very good. Overall it is a pretty good paper for a small town of 90K. I like the Sun. In case you are wondering I am a moderate. Nobody likes my politics.

[NotGolfer]

NOT on the front page...HOWEVER...read yesterday's paper and I think you'll find an article inside, perhaps on the 4th or 5th page. I agree we're unindated with such things. Remember Casey Anthony's trial. I agree this thing was horrible and the shooter should be looked at differently BUT not all the folks jumping on the "band-wagon" etc. Farrikon (I know I spelled it wrong) is in the frey now!

[graciegirl]

NOT on the front page...HOWEVER...read yesterday's paper and I think you'll find an article inside, perhaps on the 4th or 5th page. I agree we're unindated with such things. Remember Casey Anthony's trial. I agree this thing was horrible and the shooter should be looked at differently BUT not all the folks jumping on the "band-wagon" etc. Farrikon (I know I spelled it wrong) is in the frey now!

It is an issue not easily understood or solved. The cause of his shooting.


He is a child lost to a family and community who are rightfully grief stricken and angry.


The law...that kind of law may need modifications. It appears the man who shot him followed him against directions from authority, so maybe the law ....who knows? WHO KNOWS???

[FMF Doc]

Getting BACK to the original posters subject. I am following it too.

This thread will inevitably be about the law that allows people to protect their property.

I feel that the rally was indeed justified. He was a kid doing nothing wrong. A nice kid. Shot because he was black.

I doubt that the law will be changed. We didn't have such laws in Ohio.

Until I moved here I haven't ever run into such intense support of carrying and owning guns. It is new and confusing and somewhat disturbing to me.

This was a judgement call by the police based on their opinion if Zimmerman acted in self defense or not. Apparently as they first saw things they felt it was and did not charge him. The law may be changed in that a decision not be made so quicly and without input from other departments or agencies.

I feel Zimmerman was in the wrong once he went he became the agreesor in pursuing Martin. The 911 operator even told him not to do that. What a shame to get killed for carrying a bag of skittles.

Gracie, Ohio has been a shall issue permit state for awhile now. Ohio residents do obtain the permits for and do carry concealed weapons.

[paulandjean]

So wrong,glad police chief stepped down.Think there have been other situations in that town of Sanford.Kid cannot even walk to a store for candy without a label put on him. Shooter should see a long long jail time.

[army one]

Here we go again. We are letting the media determine the verdict before the case ever gets to court. We are doing the same as with the Anthony situation. I don't believe half of what any media prints and the other half is always a fabrication. Nuff Sail

[billethkid]

the emoticons are:

he was killed for carrying a bag of candy??? An example of individual extrapolation of facts to make a point.

carrying a gun and permits to do so are at issue? Just another opportunity to question law abiding citizen's right to own/carry a gun. Some how the point that the non law abiding among us will get and carry and use a gun when if there was a law against ownership....even more so once they know the pickings are even easier.

I for one am glad it is not a priority in TV paper. I appreciate the sad state of the incident. I do not appreciate the racist circus the media is helping perpetuate.

btk

[PennBF]

The thing I find the most disgraceful is that Sharpton has seen fit to
again try to get publicity from tragedy. We lived about 5 miles from the
Tawana Brawley attempt to destroy a fine family and the antics of
Sharpton who, in the end was sued and lost but the last I heard never
paid the Attorney the settlement. He is below contempt for the
Brawley action. Anything to get his name in the paper. :mad:

[RichieLion]

The thing I find the most disgraceful is that Sharpton has seen fit to
again try to get publicity from tragedy. We lived about 5 miles from the
Tawana Brawley attempt to destroy a fine family and the antics of
Sharpton who, in the end was sued and lost but the last I heard never
paid the Attorney the settlement. He is below contempt for the
Brawley action. Anything to get his name in the paper. :mad:

Exactly right. Sharpton has never had to fully answer for his Tawana Brawley hoax, his role in the Freddie's Mart fire and murder or his role in the Crown Heights riots, lootings and murder.

When Sharpton is involved I know something's not right.

[paulandjean]

And you think this guy is a law abiding citizen carry a gun. He stuck his nose into something he should not have.This is nothing about rights to carry guns. Its about a cowboy out of control,killing a child.Hey no problem with Sharpton, this killing went on for a few weeks and nobody knew of it. Good for him standing up for a right cause.

[DaleMN]

And you think this guy is a law abiding citizen carry a gun. He stuck his nose into something he should not have.This is nothing about rights to carry guns. Its about a cowboy out of control,killing a child.Hey no problem with Sharpton, this killing went on for a few weeks and nobody knew of it. Good for him standing up for a right cause.

Agree.

[CMANN]

And you think this guy is a law abiding citizen carry a gun. He stuck his nose into something he should not have.This is nothing about rights to carry guns. Its about a cowboy out of control,killing a child.Hey no problem with Sharpton, this killing went on for a few weeks and nobody knew of it. Good for him standing up for a right cause.

Show us the proof!

[gatherer47]

The shooter says he acted in self defense?The Florida law says you can defend yourself? From a box of Skittles and a cup of ice tea?I just don't get it!

[RichieLion]

And you think this guy is a law abiding citizen carry a gun. He stuck his nose into something he should not have.This is nothing about rights to carry guns. Its about a cowboy out of control,killing a child.Hey no problem with Sharpton, this killing went on for a few weeks and nobody knew of it. Good for him standing up for a right cause.

Sharpton is responsible for inciting murder, even if never charged or convicted. You may choose to ignore it, but I won't.

Whatever the truth of this case, it's soiled by the participation of the race hustler and huckster, Sharpton.

[rubicon]

I mentioned in another thread Zimmerman is entitled to due process. However once again we see the makings of an Oxbow Incident.

It saddens me also to see once again the President of the Unitd States weighing in on this situation. I guess you have to be black to get his attention. First Professor Gates now this deal. Can you say "vote getter"

Where was Obama when Casey Anthony walked away scott free? Hmmmmmmmmmm

[Taltarzac725]

I mentioned in another thread Zimmerman is entitled to due process. However once again we see the makings of an Oxbow Incident.

It saddens me also to see once again the President of the Unitd States weighing in on this situation. I guess you have to be black to get his attention. First Professor Gates now this deal. Can you say "vote getter"

Where was Obama when Casey Anthony walked away scott free? Hmmmmmmmmmm

President Obama just said that we should get to the bottom of this tragedy. He did not take a side that I could see.

[CMANN]

The shooter says he acted in self defense?The Florida law says you can defend yourself? From a box of Skittles and a cup of ice tea?I just don't get it!

Of course you don't get it. You don't want to get it. Perhaps the shooter was wrong. Perhaps not. I'd like to see a current picture of Trayvon, not one of when he was 14.

[rubicon]

President Obama just said that we should get to the bottom of this strategy. He did not take a side that I could see.

Taltarzac725: By virtue of the fact that he mentioned this situation from the Presidential lectern claiming this lad could have been his son says it all. First Gates now Martin. In all due respect this is about getting the black vote. Watch Obama's pit bull, Eric Holder al over this case. Did he balance his statement with a caveat about applying proper due process for Zimmerman?

If I were the Anthony's I would be questioning if Obama and Holder had a racial bias.

[Moderator]

This thread is quickly becoming political and will soon be moved to the political forum.... Unless, maybe, we can return to the OPs original topic about the local news coverage of this incident.

[paulandjean]

Why in the world would you want a current picture? W ould you want one of him looking mean?Love to see what your reaction would be if this was your grandson. I think someone has their head in the sand on this one.The shooter was not a cop. He could not follow orders, The kid had a hootie, and you all know what that means.

[captg]

:mad: A Sheriff Deputy, 53 years old, was shot in the face and killed just after.. this happened . The shooter was arrested along with an accomplice. Maybe Sharpton the rabble rouser can stop for a few minutes and say a few prayers for this gal and her family.:censored:

[janmcn]

The first mistake George Zimmerman made was carrying a gun since neighborhood watch members are not supposed to carry weapons. By doing so, not only is a young man dead, but the Retreat at Twin Lakes is set up for a huge lawsuit not covered by insurance. It's no wonder the residents asked him to move out immediately.




Experts warn homeowners associations of perils of using volunteer security patrols - Tampa Bay Times (http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/experts-warn-homeowners-associations-of-perils-of-using-volunteer-security/1221352)


http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/policy-of-caution-guides-neighborhood-watch-groups/1221327

[Bucco]

This thread is quickly becoming political and will soon be moved to the political forum.... Unless, maybe, we can return to the OPs original topic about the local news coverage of this incident.

This should go to political, but not because of our posters at TOTV....it was MADE political by others, and it really is a shame

[paulandjean]

My whole point"the shooter was arrested" who shot the sheriff.

[BobKat1]

To paraphrase the Doobie Brothers, "what a person believes, he sees". Not the other way around.

[PaPaLarry]

Sharpton is responsible for inciting murder, even if never charged or convicted. You may choose to ignore it, but I won't.

Whatever the truth of this case, it's soiled by the participation of the race hustler and huckster, Sharpton.
I agree!!!

[janmcn]

Sharpton is responsible for inciting murder, even if never charged or convicted. You may choose to ignore it, but I won't.

Whatever the truth of this case, it's soiled by the participation of the race hustler and huckster, Sharpton.

The title of this thread is Trayvon Martin not Al Sharpton. What decade did this event take place?

[joannej]

The police botched this one pretty good. They checked for drugs for Trevon and not for Mr. Zimmerman. They didn't spend much time, if any, with witnesses. The woman who owned the house where the murder occurred said the police only talked to her briefly that night, and did not request any further info from her for quite a bit of time after the incident. Trevon went out that night to get the Skittles and an iced tea, because the younger kid he was hanging out with that night wanted a treat. Apparently, they were watching a NBA basketball game together before Trevon went out. That child Trevon was with did not find out what happened to Trevon until the next day at school! It makes me wonder why the Sanford PD accepted Mr. Zimmerman's explanation of the murder w/o much of an investigation as time went by. It sounds like the citizens of Sanford did try to work w/the Sanford police first, etc. before this story caught the attention of the nat'l news media.

[graciegirl]

...

[dillywho]

I had a Concealed Carry Permit in Texas. One of the first things we were taught in the class was that anytime you used or even displayed your gun (had to remain concealed), count on being arrested and that it would definitely happen. This was emphasized throughout the class.

It seems that the fact Zimmerman was not arrested and allowed to leave has been the whole issue blowing this whole thing sky-high. I don't really know if he has changed his story several times or if the media has just reported whatever. Some of the news people have done some pretty good digging and have brought up some interesting questions and thoughts. I have several of my own.

All in all, such a sad thing to have happen to any child in any town.

[CMANN]

Why in the world would you want a current picture? W ould you want one of him looking mean?Love to see what your reaction would be if this was your grandson. I think someone has their head in the sand on this one.The shooter was not a cop. He could not follow orders, The kid had a hootie, and you all know what that means.

There is no reason to believe that the watchman did not follow orders. When he was told not to follow, he said "OKay"

I would like to see Trayvon as the watchman saw him.

[CMANN]

The first mistake George Zimmerman made was carrying a gun since neighborhood watch members are not supposed to carry weapons. By doing so, not only is a young man dead, but the Retreat at Twin Lakes is set up for a huge lawsuit not covered by insurance. It's no wonder the residents asked him to move out immediately.




Experts warn homeowners associations of perils of using volunteer security patrols - Tampa Bay Times (http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/experts-warn-homeowners-associations-of-perils-of-using-volunteer-security/1221352)


Policy of caution guides Neighborhood Watch groups - Tampa Bay Times (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/policy-of-caution-guides-neighborhood-watch-groups/1221327)


Because of the Florida law, if it was a just shoot, they are protected from civil action also.

[CMANN]

My whole point"the shooter was arrested" who shot the sheriff.

Was the shooter a legal CCW holder claiming self-defense? Hmmmm.

I don't think so.

[CMANN]

I had a Concealed Carry Permit in Texas. One of the first things we were taught in the class was that anytime you used or even displayed your gun (had to remain concealed), count on being arrested and that it would definitely happen. This was emphasized throughout the class.

It seems that the fact Zimmerman was not arrested and allowed to leave has been the whole issue blowing this whole thing sky-high. I don't really know if he has changed his story several times or if the media has just reported whatever. Some of the news people have done some pretty good digging and have brought up some interesting questions and thoughts. I have several of my own.

All in all, such a sad thing to have happen to any child in any town.


What would you have a self defense shooter arrested for? Protecting himself. With lack of evidence of wrong doing arrest or punishment would be very wrong.

[EdV]

The true facts in this case have yet to be established. But a license to carry a concealed weapon in Florida is not a license to use it. Here is a link to a FAQ on the use of deadly force for lawful self-defense (http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html).

[paulandjean]

Hey CMANN-You write"There is no reason that the watchman did not follow orders-when he was told not to follow,he said "Okay". I think you are missing something here. He did not follow police orders and continued to follow, to get out of his truck, to approach and finally shooting this teenager. Seems you are a little misinformed. Just because you have a CCW you cannot just pull it out and branish your justice. And of course you hear him talking to the police dispatcher calling him the name.Get your facts straight.The shooter did wrong, the police investigating did wrong and the proscutor.Think I would be outrage if it happen to me.

[JoeC1947]

I had a Concealed Carry Permit in Texas. One of the first things we were taught in the class was that anytime you used or even displayed your gun (had to remain concealed), count on being arrested and that it would definitely happen. This was emphasized throughout the class.

It seems that the fact Zimmerman was not arrested and allowed to leave has been the whole issue blowing this whole thing sky-high. I don't really know if he has changed his story several times or if the media has just reported whatever. Some of the news people have done some pretty good digging and have brought up some interesting questions and thoughts. I have several of my own.

All in all, such a sad thing to have happen to any child in any town.

I was taught the same in Vermont. In fact, The instructor said be prepared to spend 50 to 75K to defend yourself. Zimmerman should have been arrested until the facts came out. Especially since it's a black/white thing. Hasn't history taught us anything??

[janmcn]

Because of the Florida law, if it was a just shoot, they are protected from civil action also.

Gov Jeb Bush says the "stand your ground" law does not apply in this case. I think Jeb knows more about the law that he signed than "the experts" on this forum.


In Arlington, Jeb Bush says (http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/arlington/headlines/20120323-in-arlington-jeb-bush-says-stand-your-ground-invalid-in-trayvon-martin-case.ece)

[Advogado]

I was taught the same in Vermont. In fact, The instructor said be prepared to spend 50 to 75K to defend yourself. Zimmerman should have been arrested until the facts came out. Especially since it's a black/white thing. Hasn't history taught us anything??
Subject here was Daily Sun coverage.

I hate to defend the Daily Sun, whose control by the Developer has prevented it from becoming a genuine newspaper. However, in this case, I think that the DS has given the story the treatment it deserves. Most of the media has sensationalized the story and already convicted Zimmerman before all the facts have come out and distorted those facts that are available. For example, the media has uniformly reported that Zimmerman was ordered by the police not to follow Martin. In fact, the recording of the conversation between Zimmerman and the police dispatcher show the dispatcher saying "We don't need you" to follow him. The police report also states that the back of Zimmerman's head was bleeding when the police arrived at the scene, which I haven't seen reported anywhere.

Anyway, Zimmerman may be guiltyof some crime, but I can't fault the Daily Sun for not joining Al Sharpton and the rest of the media in convicting Zimmerman of murder on the front page and turning the unfortunate incident into a racial-hate crime, which it may or may not have been.

[cquick]

This was a judgement call by the police based on their opinion if Zimmerman acted in self defense or not.
I feel Zimmerman was in the wrong once he went he became the agreesor in pursuing Martin. The 911 operator even told him not to do that. What a shame to get killed for carrying a bag of skittles.
.

The biggest problem in Sanford (and Florida in general) is the inequality of law enforcement. If the person with the gun had been a black neighborhood watch person, and the victim had been white, you can be assured that the shooter would have been immediately arrested and have to prove his innocence or guilt later. But it was a white person with the gun, so the Sanford police dept. automatically believed his story, inspite of the fact that they told him NOT to follow or get involved chasing down a teenager.

I cannot understand how a child can be shot and the person with the gun is not arrested. It upsets me that this inequality is still happening!

Connie

[cquick]

There is no reason to believe that the watchman did not follow orders. When he was told not to follow, he said "OKay"

I would like to see Trayvon as the watchman saw him.

It really wouldn't have mattered if the black teenager was wearing a hoodie or not.......this Zimmerman was a fanatic with a gun. A very dangerous combination, in my opinion. Please realize that this is my own opinion.

Thanks, Connie

[cquick]

Hey CMANN-You write"There is no reason that the watchman did not follow orders-when he was told not to follow,he said "Okay". I think you are missing something here. He did not follow police orders and continued to follow, to get out of his truck, to approach and finally shooting this teenager. Seems you are a little misinformed. Just because you have a CCW you cannot just pull it out and branish your justice. And of course you hear him talking to the police dispatcher calling him the name.Get your facts straight.The shooter did wrong, the police investigating did wrong and the proscutor.Think I would be outrage if it happen to me.

:agree:

[janmcn]

It would be a shame if George Zimmerman appeared on the streets of Sanford and was shot and killed by someone invoking the "stand your ground" law.

[dillywho]

What would you have a self defense shooter arrested for? Protecting himself. With lack of evidence of wrong doing arrest or punishment would be very wrong.

You would be initially arrested until all the facts came in. You would get no-billed, but you would still be arrested...they would not just take your word for it that you acted in self-defense.

They simply took Zimmerman's word for it and had it not been for all the furor, that would have been the end of it regardless if it was how it really happened or not. That is the part that is wrong.

[batman911]

The biggest problem in Sanford (and Florida in general) is the inequality of law enforcement. If the person with the gun had been a black neighborhood watch person, and the victim had been white, you can be assured that the shooter would have been immediately arrested and have to prove his innocence or guilt later. But it was a white person with the gun, so the Sanford police dept. automatically believed his story, inspite of the fact that they told him NOT to follow or get involved chasing down a teenager.

I cannot understand how a child can be shot and the person with the gun is not arrested. It upsets me that this inequality is still happening!

Connie

I think maybe we should wait until the investigation is completed and we know all the facts before you label all Florida police as racist. That remark in itself could be considered racist.

[janmcn]

I think maybe we should wait until the investigation is completed and we know all the facts before you label all Florida police as racist. That remark in itself could be considered racist.

That's all people are asking for is a thorough investigation, which wouldn't have happened without a grassroots effort. With the Sanford police, the Florida Dept of Law Enforcement, and the Justice Department investigating hopefully all the facts will come out.

[RichieLion]

The title of this thread is Trayvon Martin not Al Sharpton. What decade did this event take place?

Once Sharpton enters the picture he's the focus, and don't doubt it. What decade did what event take place? There are many events and more than a couple of deaths surrounding the antics of Sharpton.

[JoeC1947]

Subject here was Daily Sun coverage.

I hate to defend the Daily Sun, whose control by the Developer has prevented it from becoming a genuine newspaper. However, in this case, I think that the DS has given the story the treatment it deserves. Most of the media has sensationalized the story and already convicted Zimmerman before all the facts have come out and distorted those facts that are available. For example, the media has uniformly reported that Zimmerman was ordered by the police not to follow Martin. In fact, the recording of the conversation between Zimmerman and the police dispatcher show the dispatcher saying "We don't need you" to follow him. The police report also states that the back of Zimmerman's head was bleeding when the police arrived at the scene, which I haven't seen reported anywhere.

Anyway, Zimmerman may be guiltyof some crime, but I can't fault the Daily Sun for not joining Al Sharpton and the rest of the media in convicting Zimmerman of murder on the front page and turning the unfortunate incident into a racial-hate crime, which it may or may not have been.

Thanks for agreeing with me!

[RichieLion]

The police botched this one pretty good. They checked for drugs for Trevon and not for Mr. Zimmerman. They didn't spend much time, if any, with witnesses. The woman who owned the house where the murder occurred said the police only talked to her briefly that night, and did not request any further info from her for quite a bit of time after the incident. Trevon went out that night to get the Skittles and an iced tea, because the younger kid he was hanging out with that night wanted a treat. Apparently, they were watching a NBA basketball game together before Trevon went out. That child Trevon was with did not find out what happened to Trevon until the next day at school! It makes me wonder why the Sanford PD accepted Mr. Zimmerman's explanation of the murder w/o much of an investigation as time went by. It sounds like the citizens of Sanford did try to work w/the Sanford police first, etc. before this story caught the attention of the nat'l news media.


All those, like you, who are already calling this shooting "murder" would do well to wait until the evidence is in. There is an eye witness corroborating the story told by Zimmerman. A neighbor is also sticking up for Zimmerman in recounting the neighborhood burglaries committed in the neighborhood.

Did you know the Black Panther Party is asking it's members to apprehend Zimmerman "dead or alive"? This is what is being sowed by these irresponsible accusations before the investigation is completed.

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman (http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012)

U.S. News - Neighbor comes to defense of Trayvon Martin's shooter (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/21/10791755-neighbor-comes-to-defense-of-trayvon-martins-shooter?ocid=ansmsnbc11)

New Black Panthers: Zimmerman 'Wanted Dead or Alive' (http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/24/New-Black-Panther-Party-Issues-Wanted-Dead-or-Alive)

[janmcn]

Once Sharpton enters the picture he's the focus, and don't doubt it. What decade did what event take place? There are many events and more than a couple of deaths surrounding the antics of Sharpton.

Let me rephrase. What decade did these events take place? If Rev Sharpton has been involved in more than a couple of deaths, I doubt MSNBC would hire him to do an hour show daily. I'm just guessing that NBC does a background check on people they hire as anchors. Again I'm guessing here, but NBC probably has a bigger legal investigative team than RichieLion does.

Again I reiterate, this thread is titled Trayvon Martin, not Al Sharpton. Since you seem fixated on Sharpton, I suggest you start a new thread.

[RichieLion]

Let me rephrase. What decade did these events take place? If Rev Sharpton has been involved in more than a couple of deaths, I doubt MSNBC would hire him to do an hour show daily. I'm just guessing that NBC does a background check on people they hire as anchors. Again I'm guessing here, but NBC probably has a bigger legal investigative team than RichieLion does.

Again I reiterate, this thread is titled Trayvon Martin, not Al Sharpton. Since you seem fixated on Sharpton, I suggest you start a new thread.

Seriously, all you have to do is research a little of the odious Sharpton's past and you find everything I've said and more.

As far as the liberal media, especially MSNBC, all I can say is Sharpton's complexion is his protection.

The NY officials were also inclined not to prosecute Sharpton for his inciting of violence, due to fear of liberal media reaction.

[CMANN]

Hey CMANN-You write"There is no reason that the watchman did not follow orders-when he was told not to follow,he said "Okay". I think you are missing something here. He did not follow police orders and continued to follow, to get out of his truck, to approach and finally shooting this teenager. Seems you are a little misinformed. Just because you have a CCW you cannot just pull it out and branish your justice. And of course you hear him talking to the police dispatcher calling him the name.Get your facts straight.The shooter did wrong, the police investigating did wrong and the proscutor.Think I would be outrage if it happen to me.

you seem to have much more information than I do. I have not seen anything that says he continued to follow and got out of his truck. That doesn't mean it's not true. From what I gathered from the 911 call when he was told not to follow was that the watchman was on foot, it sounded that way. I think we best weight until the evidence is in. Let's not make this another Casey Anthony case.

[CMANN]

I was taught the same in Vermont. In fact, The instructor said be prepared to spend 50 to 75K to defend yourself. Zimmerman should have been arrested until the facts came out. Especially since it's a black/white thing. Hasn't history taught us anything??

what if it is found that Zimmerman was defending himself properly. That means he was the victim of false arrest. He had in fact committed no crime and there was no evidence that he had committed a crime. Who's going to pay his reparations for false arrest? You?

Zimmerman is not Going anywhere.

Let justice run its course.

[cquick]

I think maybe we should wait until the investigation is completed and we know all the facts before you label all Florida police as racist. That remark in itself could be considered racist.

you are absolutely right! I apologize for that uncalled for remark. I am just as guilty of getting all worked up as anybody. It scares me to think that anyone running around with a gun can shoot somebody and then say they have the right to do so. And to be perfectly honest, I do let my emotions run away when I see someone's son killed.

[paulandjean]

CMANN-Yes it seems that I have much more info.I this case.

[elevatorman]

This page has the "Stand Your Ground" law for FL. Stand-your-ground law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law) The "Immunity" section is interesting as well as the "Use of Force by Aggressor" section.

[CMANN]

This page has the "Stand Your Ground" law for FL. Stand-your-ground law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law) The "Immunity" section is interesting as well as the "Use of Force by Aggressor" section.

There are states that don't recognize a persons right to self defense. You will end up in court, with a lawyer getting rich and you were the victim.

I like the Florida plan better.

[clekr]

Please see this article. If this is true the nation media and others are guilty of grossly distorting the facts to create a victim.

Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin)

[jebartle]

Hmmm!....Poor choice in Orlando, doesn't matter what race you are!!...I'm just saying!

[janmcn]

There are states that don't recognize a persons right to self defense. You will end up in court, with a lawyer getting rich and you were the victim.

I like the Florida plan better.

This works both ways. When George Zimmerman finally shows his face and gets his head blown off, the shooter can invoke the "stand your ground" law and save the state of Florida thousands of dollars. Just guessing this law is the reason Casey Anthony never goes out in public.

[zcaveman]

Please see this article. If this is true the nation media and others are guilty of grossly distorting the facts to create a victim.

Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin)

Doesn't matter. Zimmerman was told by 911 to leave it alone and let the police take care of it. At worst, he could have followrd Trayvon in his vehicle so the police could have talked to hm (Trayvon).

Zimmermon is akin to neighborhood watch. He did his job when he calld 911. From there on it a police problem.

[CMANN]

This works both ways. When George Zimmerman finally shows his face and gets his head blown off, the shooter can invoke the "stand your ground" law and save the state of Florida thousands of dollars. Just guessing this law is the reason Casey Anthony never goes out in public.

Do you plan to collect the Black Panther reward? Your thinking is sick to say the least. IMHO

[bkcunningham1]

Please see this article. If this is true the nation media and others are guilty of grossly distorting the facts to create a victim.

Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin)

Thank you. Very good information that seems to have gotten swept under the rug.

[dillywho]

After seeing one of the interviews with his dad, more questions come to mind. According to him, he did not know that Travon had been killed until the next morning when the police showed up at the door. He said that Zimmerman got to go home the night of the shooting while his son was taken to the morgue with a "John Doe" tag on his foot.

1. Didn't his dad live in that complex with his girlfriend and their son?

2. Hasn't it been reported that Trayvon was from Miami but in Sanford visiting his dad? Reports were that he went to the store for Skittles for his younger half-brother and a tea for himself which is all he had on him (and his cell phone) when he was killed.

3. How did his dad miss all the commotion and why was he not concerned when Trayvon didn't come back from the store?

4. Why did the younger one not complain when he didn't get his Skittles? If he was not too young, why didn't he go looking for Trayvon?

5. Was Trayvon the only one in the complex that Zimmerman didn't know? What about other visitors?

6. One of Zimmerman's friends said that Zimmerman didn't like confrontation and would never kill anyone. If that's true, why did he confront Trayvon and why did he carry a gun?

7. If the police didn't know who Trayvon was until the next day, why did they just take Zimmerman's word for it that the shooting was self-defense?

[janmcn]

I heard they didn't identify him for three days while they had his cell phone the whole time. Didn't they hear the phone ringing or think to call the last number dialed? And these are the people responsible for investigating this crime.

[redwitch]

I don't know the facts. I'm not the police. However, it does sound like there was no real investigation until the family demanded justice by going public and by asking for media help. I have seen interviews with people who lived in this complex (three white and one black). These four were unanimous in comments that the police either did not interview them at all or asked very perfunctory questions.

I don't like Sharpton or Farrakhan. They are both media hounds who really don't care about anything but their own publicity. Jesse Jackson at one time really did fight for juistice. Now, I'm not sure what his stance is. However, from what I have read and heard, there was no justice in this case. Hopefully, there will be in the near future.

As to the Sun not reporting much about this, not much I can say there. I do not consider the Sun a newspaper. It's a feel-good blurb that is a great marketing tool for the developer and fun for Villagers. Sanford is not in TV, so has little relevance to the developer. However, this is a story that has merited world-wide attention. To not have even one piece on the front page of a something purported to be a newspaper is, at best, pathetic. It really is bigger news than the age and make of someone's car.

[BobKat1]

I don't know the facts. I'm not the police. However, it does sound like there was no real investigation until the family demanded justice by going public and by asking for media help. I have seen interviews with people who lived in this complex (three white and one black). These four were unanimous in comments that the police either did not interview them at all or asked very perfunctory questions.

I don't like Sharpton or Farrakhan. They are both media hounds who really don't care about anything but their own publicity. Jesse Jackson at one time really did fight for juistice. Now, I'm not sure what his stance is. However, from what I have read and heard, there was no justice in this case. Hopefully, there will be in the near future.

As to the Sun not reporting much about this, not much I can say there. I do not consider the Sun a newspaper. It's a feel-good blurb that is a great marketing tool for the developer and fun for Villagers. Sanford is not in TV, so has little relevance to the developer. However, this is a story that has merited world-wide attention. To not have even one piece on the front page of a something purported to be a newspaper is, at best, pathetic. It really is bigger news than the age and make of someone's car.

Yes, I would like to be a fly on the wall at a Sun editorial meeting (if they have them) to hear the discussion about whether or not to report on the story, or run an AP feed article etc.

[Taltarzac725]

Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin)

This article from a conservative newspaper looks like it is based on one witness statement.

Witness statements are often extremely unreliable.

I do hope more of the actual facts come out now rather than much later like in the Casey Anthony case where it seemed the defense did most of the gritty investigation.

[daca55]

Here we go again. We are letting the media determine the verdict before the case ever gets to court. We are doing the same as with the Anthony situation. I don't believe half of what any media prints and the other half is always a fabrication. Nuff Sail

:agree: On the surface it seems like a the boy was shot because of his color by someone who didn't see color. I like to wait till I hear both sides of the story before I decide as to who is right or wrong. It may of happened just as the media is saying but we really haven't heard from the shooter and I still like to believe that a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. :spoken:

[blueash]

His 911 calls are available. We will never hear from the victim. Others need to speak for him.

[billethkid]

it would do well for the masses to stop the reference to color. Other than the racist opportunists what value does it add? None!

Could you reach a decision solely based on what you have seen and heard and think you know thus far? Of course not. And as far as I am concerned the media is the last place to learn from since they have multiple agendas and the truth is not their priority....being first is their sole priority....and as in the past when (not if) they get it wrong they can always feign some other source that makes them clean (in their narrow minded view of the world anyway).

The problem with the media discovering they could be wrong is they don't have to be the ones to announce it. They may in fact stand pat until or unless it becomes public information from another source. Do I think they would sit on incriminating (either side) information. Absolutely yes and conditional upon whether it serves their agenda or not.

I hate to say it that way but that is what their very biased reporting performance has earned from me.

btk

[trichard]

Where's the outrage with the FAMU hazing death?!! Recent revelations show that the President was well aware of the problem!

[blaZen]

This incident happened over a month ago. Media acts like it was last week. Nevertheless, it has been over 30 days, and we still do not have the complete picture of what actually went on. Remember the Duke Lacross story?????

[grrrrex]

Interesting..I don't know who is right or wrong as the facts are still coming out. but I find it interesting that some folks who seem most against violence would appear to be happy to see that violence applied to Mr.Zimmerman.
Grrrrex

[PennBF]

As I understand it and from the last reporting by the news it is alleged;
1. The guard had called 911, and was told to return to his car.
2. The guard started back to his car and Trayron asked him if he had a problem?
3. The guard said no and proceeded towards his car.
4. Trayon proceeded towards him and said you do now and punched him in the nose.
5. The guard was then taken to the ground by Trayon and he [Trayon]
was on top of him.
6. The guard was yelling for help as he was pinned to the ground.
7. Earlier, couple of days or week Trayon was repremanded at school for having pot. He may not be the clean cut kid going home with a candy bar???
Kind of different from the mob hysteria to blame the guard? It is good that
the Sun did not report since the facts are just coming out and they did
not go well for the mob mentality.
(Note: At a minimum Items# 5 and 6 above are alleged to be the testimony from a witness to the Police?):ohdear:

[looneycat]

the emoticons are:

he was killed for carrying a bag of candy??? An example of individual extrapolation of facts to make a point.

carrying a gun and permits to do so are at issue? Just another opportunity to question law abiding citizen's right to own/carry a gun. Some how the point that the non law abiding among us will get and carry and use a gun when if there was a law against ownership....even more so once they know the pickings are even easier.

I for one am glad it is not a priority in TV paper. I appreciate the sad state of the incident. I do not appreciate the racist circus the media is helping perpetuate.

btk

Amen! the real truth is we don't know at all what happened. Think about this...people who know GZ say they recognize the voice calling for help as his
people who don't know either one claimed it was the kid???

[looneycat]

His 911 calls are available. We will never hear from the victim. Others need to speak for him.

not all were released and we heard from the kid on his call to his girlfriend
unfortunately his last words were him beligerently yelling at zimmerman. By the way the nice kid had pot on him as well, not that it proves anything either.

:shrug:

[graciegirl]

We don't know. We just don't know. But we would know more if someone didn't use a gun.

I don't like guns, but I support the second ammendment rights.

but just see what a mess it is?

[billethkid]

I don't know why one would think we would know more if a gun were not used, but it is opinion one is entitled to have.

Imagine the boy being hit in the head by a black jack with a well placed blow and dying....knowing no more than we know right now why would we know more or why would it be any easier to understand not being a gun?

btk

[grrrrex]

If Mr. Zimmerman is telling the truth, without his pistol, it may well have been he who died.

[billethkid]

on tonight's news it was reported that the boy possessed marijuana and had been suspended from school for it. The supporters of the boy are crying foul saying even if it is true the police are trying to make the boy look bad.

They are not interested in what really happened....what ever that was or may have been...they want their pound of flesh for how they want it believed...don't confuse the issue with facts....eh?

Why are we seeing only posed pictures of the boy? What age is he in the pictures?

Instead of playing the same emotion only scenarios and extensive coverage of the racist opportunists in action stirring the crowds, the media should back off and wait for release of real information. The same old, same old racist drum beating is fast approaching overkill.

btk

[manaboutown]

I believe and trust the US mainstream media on most issues including this story about as much as I believed and trusted the propaganda organs Pravda (translation - Truth) and Izvestia (translation - The Light) back in the days of the USSR. Actually, in the last several years even less so...

Too, the lynch mob mentality generated and maintained by the usual cast of nefarious professional rabble rousers mandates "Don't confuse us with the facts. We have already made up our minds."

All of the facts are not out. Let's find out what really happened here before we pass judgment on anyone.

[RichieLion]

The Daily Caller has the photo that Martin posted on his Twitter account which shows him in an up to date pic.

If you click on the story you can read some of his "tweets", complete with the racially charged twitter name he called himself.

It doesn't prove anything really except maybe to give a better "picture" of this young man.

The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/)

[bkcunningham1]

on tonight's news it was reported that the boy possessed marijuana and had been suspended from school for it. The supporters of the boy are crying foul saying even if it is true the police are trying to make the boy look bad.

They are not interested in what really happened....what ever that was or may have been...they want their pound of flesh for how they want it believed...don't confuse the issue with facts....eh?

Why are we seeing only posed pictures of the boy? What age is he in the pictures?

Instead of playing the same emotion only scenarios and extensive coverage of the racist opportunists in action stirring the crowds, the media should back off and wait for release of real information. The same old, same old racist drum beating is fast approaching overkill.

btk

Bravo. Very well stated.

Also, Richie, I saw the current photo of the 17 year old. Unless a reporter is willing to dig and not care whose feelings get hurt when getting to the truth, we will continue to see the mug shot of Zimmerman and the photo of Martin from when he was 13 or 14 years old. I also read the Twitter account where he indicated he'd taken a swing at a school bus driver.

Does any of that explain what happened? Of course not. This is a country based on the rule of law. A grand jury has been conveyned to hear the evidence. I have faith in their verdict to determine if there is enough evidence to charge Zimmerman and allow the case to go to court.

[RichieLion]

More coming out. This is looking a lot less like the "race killing" that the activists and the media alluded to.

Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Told Police Teen Attacked Him (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/26/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1381322.html?1332811474&ncid=webmail2)

[CMANN]

The Daily Caller has the photo that Martin posted on his Twitter account which shows him in an up to date pic.

If you click on the story you can read some of his "tweets", complete with the racially charged twitter name he called himself.

It doesn't prove anything really except maybe to give a better "picture" of this young man.

The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/)


I get the impression that Trayvon is not the kid in the published picture. He seems to be a typical black teen who wants to be "Gangsta"

[paulandjean]

They also have released a new photo of Zimmerman,Clean shaven,shirt and tie,supposely release by his attorney.

[BobKat1]

They also have released a new photo of Zimmerman,Clean shaven,shirt and tie,supposely release by his attorney.

Yes, BOTH sides will be trying to place their guy in the best light while trying to make to other side look not so good.

[RichieLion]

New info that Trayvon Martin was previously suspended from school while in possession of a burglary tool and women's jewelry that he claims was not his, and that his suspension was officially for graffiti.

He'd been suspended from school a total of 3 times. The latest for drug and drug paraphernalia possession which was the current suspension in the time he was shot.

The picture emerging about this big kid is not as first advertised. This should not be a national story. The only reason it is is because of race, and I don't mean the race of Martin, I mean the race of the shooter. The only problem is that the story revolved around the shooter being named Zimmerman, which meant he was Caucasian. The kicker is that his name didn't reveal that the shooter is, in fact, classified as Hispanic. This only slowed down the express train of "racial indignation", but didn't derail it.

Trayvon Martin case: He was suspended from school for having a 'burglary tool' | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-school-having-burglary-tool.html)

[Figmo Bohica]

Richie, any time a criminal get hurt or shoot, all of a sudden that person, "Help his aged Gandmother do her shopping every Saturday and took her to church on Sunday." Right, but once the facts start coming out, seems as though the story takes on a different light.

I will wait until the investigation is completed and all facts, on both sides are known, before reaching any conclusion. This is what the media and all the talking heads should have done.

[RichieLion]

Richie, any time a criminal get hurt or shoot, all of a sudden that person, "Help his aged Gandmother do her shopping every Saturday and took her to church on Sunday." Right, but once the facts start coming out, seems as though the story takes on a different light.

I will wait until the investigation is completed and all facts, on both sides are known, before reaching any conclusion. This is what the media and all the talking heads should have done.

Exactly right, but the die has been cast already and cannot be retrieved.

I just knew without a doubt in my mind that if Sharpton was involved, this story as presented stunk to high heaven. It's starting to seem that I was right.

[Applepie]

Did you see the latest news reports on the incident. Witnesses say Zimmerman was walking back to his car when the Martin kid attacked him from behind. Hospital confirms that Zimmerman had injuries consistent with being attacked from behind. ( broked nose and forehead lacerations from contact on cement). Also. Martin was in Orlando because he had been suspended from school for drugs. Current pictures show him looking much older and bigger. I am not making any judgement one way or another, just stating the facts, so please don't beat me up for this post. I just think the press should get all the information before crucifying someone. Also the Black Panthers have a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman.

[kirk1]

He said / She said -- That is all we have because of the inept and sloppy work of the Sanford PD. You can spin the cause of injuries or sounds heard in the night but hard evidence will be had to come by because of SPD's investigation.
This investigation reminds me of the beating a son of a SPD officer gave another black male in Sanford and the department tried to kiss this off too. I suppose this was a coincidence and that SPD is not biased or just plain inept.

[Advogado]

Did you see the latest news reports on the incident. Witnesses say Zimmerman was walking back to his car when the Martin kid attacked him from behind. Hospital confirms that Zimmerman had injuries consistent with being attacked from behind. ( broked nose and forehead lacerations from contact on cement). Also. Martin was in Orlando because he had been suspended from school for drugs. Current pictures show him looking much older and bigger. I am not making any judgement one way or another, just stating the facts, so please don't beat me up for this post. I just think the press should get all the information before crucifying someone. Also the Black Panthers have a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman.

The press (and some posters to this forum) don't seem to want to wait until they they have all the facts before sensationalizing a story and jumping to politically correct conclusions. The news media and some posters immediately convicted Zimmerman of racially motivated murder. It is looking more and more as though this just might not be the case. Was nothing learned from the Duke lacrosse scandal?

[Whatever]

What is with the gold teeth?

[RichieLion]

What is with the gold teeth?

Typically, it's a "gangsta fashion" thing, and is popular with young African-American men because the "rap" stars sport this jewelry. It's not that uncommon and certainly not cheap. It's an expensive adornment.

[janmcn]

ABC News is reporting that the lead investigator wanted to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter the night of the murder and wasn't "buying his story". If this is confirmed, the police chief and the prosecutor have some explaining to do.

[RichieLion]

ABC News is reporting that the lead investigator wanted to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter the night of the murder and wasn't "buying his story". If this is confirmed, the police chief and the prosecutor have some explaining to do.

You don't have to guess. The Sanford police have released their initial report in a news conference.

Police Incident Report | Trayvon Martin Shooting | The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/police-incident-report-fills-in-details-on-trayvon-martin-shooting/)

[paulandjean]

"Whats with the gold teeth", The way I look at it is, at least he is seeing a dentist. Lots of young kids and adults do this. No big thing,its not like he could not go to "The Villages" high school because of his tooth.Justs a fad,like seeing a villages 65 year old driving a motorcycle with a ponytail and a leather vest. Just trying to fit in.

[Advogado]

[QUOTE=paulandjean;472334]"Whats with the gold teeth", The way I look at it is, at least he is seeing a dentist. Lots of young kids and adults do this. No big thing,its not like he could not go to "The Villages" high school because of his tooth.Justs a fad,like seeing a villages 65 year old driving a motorcycle with a ponytail and a leather vest. Just trying to fit in.[/
Hardly just a fad. Where and how does a 17-year old get the cash for gold cosmetic dentistry?

[billethkid]

Good news....the story DID NOT make NBC national news tonight.
Maybe they recognize it is indeed over done...wrongly done....and like the LaCrosse players of the past will turn out totally different than the emotional, racist opportunists would like it to go.

btk

[ceejay]

That's exactly what I was wondering...I can understand the rap stars sporting them, but where does a 17 year old kid get the money for all that gold in his teeth?:confused:

[Advogado]

So wrong,glad police chief stepped down.Think there have been other situations in that town of Sanford.Kid cannot even walk to a store for candy without a label put on him. Shooter should see a long long jail time.

The above is an early post. In light of facts that have recently surfaced, I wonder if the people who convicted Zimmerman on the basis of the initial news reports are still so sure.

[CMANN]

ABC News is reporting that the lead investigator wanted to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter the night of the murder and wasn't "buying his story". If this is confirmed, the police chief and the prosecutor have some explaining to do.

Night of the "murder?" There goes your credibility.

[larbud]

Maybe pics and detention records being unearthed is why the media is easing off. Too bad the perpetrators of the real injustice sharptird,Jerkson and farakastan should take heed.

That be the thug on the right side ...

[larbud]

And I assure You that if the homies start any **** the people of Sanford will finish it...

[jackz]

[QUOTE=larbud;472453]Maybe pics and detention records being unearthed is why the media is easing off. Too bad the perpetrators of the real injustice sharptird,Jerkson and farakastan should take heed.



I am attaching Trayvons facebook photo alongside the photo of him as a 14 year old that the media has been using and the photo that the President had in mind when he said he looks like he could be my son. I wonder if the President had the facebook photo would he have made the same statement.

[GaryW]

Who cares what he looks like....... Sounds like some profiling going on here in this forum. When I was stationed at Camp Pendleton we had a Marine killed near his home in LA. He had on the pants that hang down on the but, earring, gold crown on his teeth. Was portrayed at a Gang Member right off the bat.

That is until people got to know who he really was. A hard working Marine, Father, and got killed helping out someone else. Stop complaining and calling names. The media and Presidential candidates fill the air enough with all that mess.

Besides I am sure there is enough to worry about in TV, besides how he got a gold grill. UNBELIEVABLE makes a man want to barf

[jackz]

Who cares what he looks like....... Sounds like some profiling going on here in this forum. When I was stationed at Camp Pendleton we had a Marine killed near his home in LA. He had on the pants that hang down on the but, earring, gold crown on his teeth. Was portrayed at a Gang Member right off the bat.

That is until people got to know who he really was. A hard working Marine, Father, and got killed helping out someone else. Stop complaining and calling names. The media and Presidential candidates fill the air enough with all that mess.

Besides I am sure there is enough to worry about in TV, besides how he got a gold grill. UNBELIEVABLE makes a man want to barf

I can only speak for my posting of the facebook photo.

The reason it was posted was to show the bias by the news media in continuing to post a photo of a 12 year old which is in no way representative of the 17 year old that was involved in this incident.

[manaboutown]

[QUOTE=paulandjean;472334]
Where and how does a 17-year old get the cash for gold cosmetic dentistry?

Didn't a school guard stop him at one time and find he had a screwdriver and a bag of assorted women's jewelry in his back pack?

[RichieLion]

I'm on board with the questioning of the rush to justice concerning this incident but let's not get carried away.

The only photo known to be in fact Trayvon Martin, other than the photo of a young Trayvon the family handed out, is the one where he's sporting the "gold grille" from his Twitter account. The other photos haven't been authenticated, and the crowd photo purported to show Trayvon was debunked, and Michelle Malkin even had to apologize after publishing it after she was duped.

We need to stay with the evidence and keep things in context.

[Taltarzac725]

I'm on board with the questioning of the rush to justice concerning this incident but let's not get carried away.

The only photo known to be in fact Trayvon Martin, other than the photo of a young Trayvon the family handed out, is the one where he's sporting the "gold grille" from his Twitter account. The other photos haven't been authenticated, and the crowd photo purported to show Trayvon was debunked, and Michelle Malkin even had to apologize after publishing it after she was duped.

We need to stay with the evidence and keep things in context.

Good post, RichieLion. :agree:

[janmcn]

Night of the "murder?" There goes your credibility.

You are correct. I should have said homicide. That's what the lead investigator called it, and I'm guessing he knows more than "the experts" on this forum.

[RichieLion]

You are correct. I should have said homicide. That's what the lead investigator called it, and I'm guessing he knows more than "the experts" on this forum.

Homicide is absolutely the correct word here, Jan. I don't think any of the "experts" on this forum would have a problem with that.

The question that needs an answer now is; was this a case of "justifiable or excusable homicide"?

homicide legal definition of homicide. homicide synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary. (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide)

[janmcn]

ABC News is reporting that the lead investigator wanted to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter the night of the murder and wasn't "buying his story". If this is confirmed, the police chief and the prosecutor have some explaining to do.

Is it just a coincidence that the police chief and the prosecutor were both taken off this case after they overruled the lead investigator who requested an arrest warrant from the Seminole County State Attorney's Office?

[RichieLion]

Is it just a coincidence that the police chief and the prosecutor were both taken off this case after they overruled the lead investigator who requested an arrest warrant from the Seminole County State Attorney's Office?

Here's some needed context to what you've written.

Trayvon Martin Case: Police Wanted Warrant To Arrest George Zimmerman, Prosecutor Says (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/trayvon-martin-case-polic_n_1384301.html?ncid=webmail1)

[janmcn]

Homicide is absolutely the correct word here, Jan. I don't think any of the "experts" on this forum would have a problem with that.

The question that needs an answer now is; was this a case of "justifiable or excusable homicide"?

homicide legal definition of homicide. homicide synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary. (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide)

"A Sanford police incident report shows the case was categorized as 'homicide/negligent manslaugter' " which is not the same as justifiable or excusable homicide.


http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1222259.ece

[RichieLion]

"A Sanford police incident report shows the case was categorized as 'homicide/negligent manslaugter' " which is not the same as justifiable or excusable homicide.


Sanford cops sought warrant to arrest George Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin shooting - Tampa Bay Times (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1222259.ece)

So?; the state's attorney thought it prudent to do further investigation. Maybe you should be writing him. It was his judgement.

[skyguy79]

Homicide is absolutely the correct word here, Jan. I don't think any of the "experts" on this forum would have a problem with that.

The question that needs an answer now is; was this a case of "justifiable or excusable homicide"?

homicide legal definition of homicide. homicide synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary. (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide)You're absolutely correct Richie. This is where the focus should be and not on civil rights activists and the media nuturing and encouraging the "guilty in the court of public opinion" mentality for 'supposedly' honorable reasons I won't go into here! All the distraction going on is making true justice nearly impossible, wither it's for Martin, Zimmerman or anyone else for that matter!

[skyguy79]

"A Sanford police incident report shows the case was categorized as 'homicide/negligent manslaugter' " which is not the same as justifiable or excusable homicide.


Sanford cops sought warrant to arrest George Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin shooting - Tampa Bay Times (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1222259.ece)
This kind of statement makes an assumption that an officers opinion is always 100% perfect and in truth they are no more or less perfect that the rest of us are. That's why there has to be checks and balances, especially in light of their jobs being frequently emotionally charged and occasionally their judgment hampered because of it. They're needed to determine if the charges are correct and to make sure that any evidence has a decent chance of holding up in court. If I were wrong, would there be any chance of incidents like what you'll see happening in this video?

http://youtu.be/mQcb4numzUo

[paulandjean]

New info coming out on George Zimmermans 2005 arrest.

[CMANN]

New info coming out on George Zimmermans 2005 arrest.

Why didn't you post it? 2005 sounds like old news to me.

[paulandjean]

Maybe I want all the true facts before I post.

[Whatever]

Maybe I want all the true facts before I post.

"True facts" is redundant. If the statement is true, it is fact. If not true, it cannot be a fact.

[Taltarzac725]

Trayvon Martin Case: Police Video Shows No Blood, Bruises On George Zimmerman After Killing (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/trayvon-martin-police-video_n_1386764.html)

[Advogado]

Trayvon Martin Case: Police Video Shows No Blood, Bruises On George Zimmerman After Killing (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/trayvon-martin-police-video_n_1386764.html)

As forensic experts have pointed out, the video proves nothing. Yet the linked website's report (Huffington Post) is typical of the media's treatment of the incident. It is good to see, however, that the media's lynch-mob attack on Zimmerman is becoming more restrained as more facts emerge.

In the above-cited report, the Huffington Post headlines the killing as a "tragedy". IF Zimmerman's account proves to be true, many people might use a different adjective.

[paulandjean]

Think George Zimmerman and the condo association will be paying dearly for this killing.All of the people in those condos will be sued.Geoge was the head honcho to call about crime in that condo complex.Did not see anything coming out of that police car,that he was hurt. Just a stroll into the police station. No blood, no nose problem like he says was broken. He really screwed up big time.Hope he gets what he deserves killing that teenager. Just someone playing he's a cop.

[billethkid]

there is no opportunity to "wait for the facts"....the media just will not tolerate such an intelligent choice. Just look at the circus the tried to revive yesterday with the so called Zimmerman...did you see any lumps or bumps tape. And then interviewing anybody and everybody except the guy in the sewer asking what did you see?

Absolutely irresponsible....school yard level reporting.

Also notice their indiscriminate use of the word alleged. Which is usually used with even an event on film showing a shooter shooting. Regarding Zimmerman they rarely if ever use alleged. However last night the reporter said they were viewing the most recent tapes to see if the alleged broken nose and broken scalp could be detected.

Pure racist, biased, baiting reporting (is there any other kind?).

btk

[RichieLion]

British parents of 2 young white tourists who were brutally murdered by a black assailant who was miffed that they didn't have much money and then shot them multiple times as they begged for their lives, tried 3 times to get a response through letters from Obama.

I guess there was no political upside for him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9173820/Parents-of-murdered-British-students-criticise-Barack-Obama.html

[rubicon]

For those of you who can withhold your opinion until after you have had an oppruntity to read and digest the article, read Ann coulter's column in Sunday's Daily Sun:clap2:

[RichieLion]

For those of you who can withhold your opinion until after you have had an oppruntity to read and digest the article, read Ann coulter's column in Sunday's Daily Sun:clap2:

They don't have to wait to read it.

Ann Coulter - March 28, 2012 - 'POST-RACIAL' LYNCH MOB (http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2012-03-28.html#read_more)

[paulandjean]

Sorry thought this was the Martin post.

[rubicon]

They don't have to wait to read it.

Ann Coulter - March 28, 2012 - 'POST-RACIAL' LYNCH MOB (http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2012-03-28.html#read_more)

Thanks richielion

[RichieLion]

Sorry thought this was the Martin post.

???????????????

[Golfer in Sanibel]

Interesting: Every News organiozation in the world has been reporting on this tragic event in Sanford Florida. Not One word in the Daily Sun, The Fun Only Newsletter.It is a shame they call themselves a news organization.

Funny, but appropriate. Well, anyway, we know what we have. sometimes I get so tired of all the negative B.S. on the news. Maybe I'll live longer if I only read the Daily Sun. :)

This was a tragedy. And we know there are always two sides to every story. we will probably never know the truth.

[Advogado]

Think George Zimmerman and the condo association will be paying dearly for this killing.All of the people in those condos will be sued.Geoge was the head honcho to call about crime in that condo complex.Did not see anything coming out of that police car,that he was hurt. Just a stroll into the police station. No blood, no nose problem like he says was broken. He really screwed up big time.Hope he gets what he deserves killing that teenager. Just someone playing he's a cop.

How can you possibly reach the conclusions that you have based on the publicly available information? Why not just wait until all the facts come out? E.g., if Zimmerman was injured, there will be medical reports to substantiate that fact. (Certainly the police report states that he was injured, but you seem to want to believe that the police officers, for some unexplained reason, would lie to protect a guy they didn't even know.)

[paulandjean]

My conclusion, George Zimmerman -Gun- Travon Martin No Gun. George alive, Travon dead.If it happened.....George being punched in the nose. Does that mean all the people in all the years where smacked in the nose, you have a license to shoot them.What I see is a hint of something else taking place by some of the posters.So this is my view.

[Advogado]

My conclusion, George Zimmerman -Gun- Travon Martin No Gun. George alive, Travon dead.If it happened.....George being punched in the nose. Does that mean all the people in all the years where smacked in the nose, you have a license to shoot them.What I see is a hint of something else taking place by some of the posters.So this is my view.

Why not wait before reaching conclusions?

What if Zimmerman was the victim of a mugger, who was pounding Zimmerman's head on the concrete in an attempt to kill him? I'm afraid that you are acting a lot like the professional agitator Al Sharpton and reaching conclusions not supported by the facts, but by your own agenda or prejudices. I'm not saying that your conclusion is wrong-- just way too premature.

[CMANN]

Think George Zimmerman and the condo association will be paying dearly for this killing.All of the people in those condos will be sued.Geoge was the head honcho to call about crime in that condo complex.Did not see anything coming out of that police car,that he was hurt. Just a stroll into the police station. No blood, no nose problem like he says was broken. He really screwed up big time.Hope he gets what he deserves killing that teenager. Just someone playing he's a cop.

If it is decided that it is a legitimate case of self-defense then nobody is going to sue anybody. One of the benefits of the Castle doctrine and the stand your ground law it protects the person from civil suit also.

Hope that doesn't ruin your day.

[mac9]

Advagado...Protect a guy they didn't even know? Be real, Zimmerman's daddy is a judge!

[Advogado]

Advagado...Protect a guy they didn't even know? Be real, Zimmerman's daddy is a judge!

I didn't know that. I guess that means that Zimmerman must be guilty?

[Taltarzac725]

Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Was 'Jekyll And Hyde,' Former Co-Worker Says (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman_n_1392591.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk1%26pLid%3D148115)

[Barefoot]

Why not wait before reaching conclusions? I'm not saying that your conclusion is wrong-- just way too premature.

This is a forum for opinions. Which may change when more facts are revealed. Members like to chit-chat and speculate about current events.

[paulandjean]

Maybe you should ask travon martin if his head was being pounded also.I really think George Zimmerman drove around and walked around that complex as if he owned it.I think if I looked out a seen a white man following a black teenager i would be concerned.Think George got really cocky and this kid decked him. Not sure of head pounded in the ground more like the back of his head was on the ground.George was losing the fight and took out his piece and killed the teenager. Yes---Pure and Simple. And yes homeowners can be part of the sued.

[skyguy79]

Why not wait before reaching conclusions?

What if Zimmerman was the victim of a mugger, who was pounding Zimmerman's head on the concrete in an attempt to kill him? I'm afraid that you are acting a lot like the professional agitator Al Sharpton and reaching conclusions not supported by the facts, but by your own agenda or prejudices. I'm not saying that your conclusion is wrong-- just way too premature.

This is a forum for opinions. Which may change when more facts are revealed. Members like to chit-chat and speculate about current events.That's exactly what Advogado was doing and I think he/she has just as much right to express their opinions as those who think and believe like many did back in the days of the wild west... hang now, ask questions later!

I also agree that Sharpton is a professional agitator. He, as well as Alton Maddox and C Vernon Mason, made their beds and earned their reputations back in 1987 when they supported Twana Brawley, no questions asked, when she falsely accused and ruined reputations of 6 individuals that included policemen and a New York prosecutor. The accusations were so disgusting that I won't even repeat them here. You can read the details at the link I provide below where you'll also find an alarming parallel scenario to what's happening today.

Tawana Brawley rape allegations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations)

History repeated itself again in 2006 when Sharpton got involved with Crystal Gail Mangum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Gail_Mangum) who falsely accused 3 white players of the Duke LaCrosse team of rape, ruining the reputation those 3 men like happened in the Brawley case. Just click her name for details of that Sharpton gaffe!

[Barefoot]

That's exactly what Advogado was doing and I think he/she has just as much right to express their opinions as those who think and believe like many did back in the days of the wild west... hang now, ask questions later!


You're absolutely right Skyguy. :mornincoffee: Note to Self - Have coffee before posting.

[skyguy79]

You're absolutely right Skyguy. :mornincoffee: Note to Self - Have coffee before posting.Have one for me too! :p

... oh, never mind. My wife just broght me one! :mornincoffee:

[mac9]

Advogado, No it does not mean that Zimmerman is guilty. I just stated that because his father is a judge (and he has been arrested before) that the police could indeed have known him and that he was not a complete stranger to him. Unlike some other opinions on here, I am not the judge and jury. I think that the American system of justice is a fair and equitable system unlike that of many other countries. However, I do not think that it is infallible.

[RichieLion]

Deaths that don't count.

Maybe some of those outraged by Martin's death can expend some outrage over these deaths.

Why isn't there any?

Deaths that don’t count? - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/deaths_that_don_count_CSPFOtyve3lUeoA87JWJeJ)

[skyguy79]

Deaths that don't count.

Maybe some of those outraged by Martin's death can expend some outrage over these deaths.

Why isn't there any?

Deaths that don’t count? - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/deaths_that_don_count_CSPFOtyve3lUeoA87JWJeJ)I think that the answer to "Why isn't there any" isn't too hard to figure out. Those other deaths are not sensationalized by the media and civil rights activists like this case it. I also think that the last sentence of the article you gave a link to (not to say it applies to any comments on this thread) really hits a nail on the head.

[RichieLion]

I think that the answer to "Why isn't there any" isn't too hard to figure out. Those other deaths are not sensationalized by the media and civil rights activists like this case it. I also think that the last sentence of the article you gave a link to (not to say it applies to any comments on this thread) really hits a nail on the head.

Of course my question was rhetorical, but as usual you hit the nail squarely on the head by focusing on the last sentence of the article.

excellent.

[Advogado]

Advogado, No it does not mean that Zimmerman is guilty. I just stated that because his father is a judge (and he has been arrested before) that the police could indeed have known him and that he was not a complete stranger to him. Unlike some other opinions on here, I am not the judge and jury. I think that the American system of justice is a fair and equitable system unlike that of many other countries. However, I do not think that it is infallible.

According to news reports, his dad was a judge in Virginia. So what's the relevance?

Also, the news reports state Zimmerman had been arrested for assaulting a police officer in 2005-- a fact that, if known to the officers on the scene, would have, in your view, endeared him to them?

There was an interesting article in the Daily Sun today about the effect that use of Martin's childhood photo, instead of the more threatening one of him sporting his gold grilles and a sleeveless tee shirt, had on public opinion in this case. It is interesting that the outdated photo continues to be used in most news stories, despite the availability to the more-recent one.

Incidentally, if you want to pick up a set of grilles for yourself, you can check the prices here: E Gold USA Inc - Removable Gold Teeth (http://www.goldteethusa.com). And maybe pick up a set for yourself if you want to look like a drug dealer. However, they would seem to be unaffordable for most unemployed 17-year olds.

[janmcn]

Deaths that don't count.

Maybe some of those outraged by Martin's death can expend some outrage over these deaths.

Why isn't there any?

Deaths that don’t count? - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/deaths_that_don_count_CSPFOtyve3lUeoA87JWJeJ)

The title of this thread is Trayvon Martin, not murders around the country. Perhaps you should start another thread. I noticed that most of these crimes were solved and presume that the perpetrators will have a day in court. That's all that people are asking in this case.

[janmcn]

According to news reports, his dad was a judge in Virginia. So what's the relevance?

Also, the news reports state Zimmerman had been arrested for assaulting a police officer in 2005-- a fact that, if known to the officers on the scene, would have, in your view, endeared him to them?

There was an interesting article in the Daily Sun today about the effect that use of Martin's childhood photo, instead of the more threatening one of him sporting his gold grilles and a sleeveless tee shirt, had on public opinion in this case. It is interesting that the outdated photo continues to be used in most news stories, despite the availability to the more-recent one.

Incidentally, if you want to pick up a set of grilles for yourself, you can check the prices here: E Gold USA Inc - Removable Gold Teeth (http://www.goldteethusa.com). And maybe pick up a set for yourself if you want to look like a drug dealer. However, they would seem to be unaffordable for most unemployed 17-year olds.

Did the Daily Sun explain what the relevance of what Trayvon Martin looked like has to do with his murder?

[RichieLion]

The title of this thread is Trayvon Martin, not murders around the country. Perhaps you should start another thread. I noticed that most of these crimes were solved and presume that the perpetrators will have a day in court. That's all that people are asking in this case.

If you don't see the relevance in the revolting circus revolving around the Martin case and the article I've posted, it's pointless of me to try to explain it to you.

If you think the investigation is moving too slowly, maybe you should run down to Sanford and join the lynching committee already in progress.

[RichieLion]

Did the Daily Sun explain what the relevance of what Trayvon Martin looked like has to do with his murder?

The only relevance to what Martin looked like is the fact that the media has only been showing a picture of a smiling 12 year old when Martin was an adult sized male.

It disingenuous; a word that perfectly suits all this hoopla.

[rubicon]

The Trayvon Martin campaign is a classic example of how the Sharpton's of the world manipulate people by feigning a faux victim mentality. As long as there are blacks that believe they are victims america will never get passed the issue of racism. The Sharpton and thelike continue to this faux belief in order to maintain status with the balck community . They create a need where one does not exist.

[paulandjean]

Think you are missing the point. Its a teen vs adult. The adults are mature and no the difference of right and wrong. The teen is not experienced as the adult. Teens make dumb judgements adults should know better. Teens brains are not developed at that age, if you would have worked around teenagers you would know this. George Zimmerman was the one who acted more like the teenager by not thinking things out.

[mac9]

Advogada, Let me get this straight. A set of gold "grills" makes you a drug dealer. That's as silly as saying that wearing a visor in the Villages makes you a golfer. You are letting your true and ever so self-righteous feelings shine through here.

[BobKat1]

Let's all just hope that while this whole circus rages on, behind the scenes officials are doing their investigations and that it gets properly and fairly resolved.

[billethkid]

and let's all hope that all the blacks will see that Al Sharpton is nothing more than a hate monger certified racist.
Even the NAACP separated with him last night.

He stands for everything blacks do not want.

Why the media even validates his presence is beyond good judgement.

Al Sharpton's mouth sets blacks back in time every time he opens it.

NO ADDED VALUE EXTREME RACIST.

btk

[janmcn]

and let's all hope that all the blacks will see that Al Sharpton is nothing more than a hate monger certified racist.
Even the NAACP separated with him last night.

He stands for everything blacks do not want.

Why the media even validates his presence is beyond good judgement.

Al Sharpton's mouth sets blacks back in time every time he opens it.

NO ADDED VALUE EXTREME RACIST.

btk

What is your link to the NAACP separating from Al Sharpton last night? I saw him today marching in an NAACP sponsored event. Again, this thread is titled Trayvon Martin, not Al Sharpton. Perhaps all those of you who are fixated on Al Sharpton should start another thread.

[skyguy79]

The title of this thread is Trayvon Martin, not murders around the country. Perhaps you should start another thread. I noticed that most of these crimes were solved and presume that the perpetrators will have a day in court. That's all that people are asking in this case.What makes you thing that this is not what were asking for too? We also want to see justice served and if the juror pools are so compromised one way or the other that it's impossible to sit an impartial jury because of this "trial by influenced public opinion," how then will justice be served? By a vigilante lynch mob like in the old wild west?

And what if they do manage to find a jury of presumed impartial individuals! Will all the jurors have enough courage to vote their conscience once the facts are all presented to them at trial, if the facts show that Zimmerman is innocent? Or will they vote to convict in fear of potential death threats against them if they don't? It's already happened to some people involved and it surely will happen again against the jurors if they find him innocent!

If Zimmerman is in fact guilty, and he walks free because of what I've just explained, then who is guilty of obstructing justice. I can tell you that it's not us who speak against the rush to judgment and not involved in public protests!

[janmcn]

If you don't see the relevance in the revolting circus revolving around the Martin case and the article I've posted, it's pointless of me to try to explain it to you.

If you think the investigation is moving too slowly, maybe you should run down to Sanford and join the lynching committee already in progress.

Just returned from the NAACP demonstation in Sanford where thousands of people called for justice in the case of Trayvon Martin.

[RichieLion]

Just returned from the NAACP demonstation in Sanford where thousands of people called for justice in the case of Trayvon Martin.

Are you the one who determines what "justice" is in this case?

Were you there, at the scene of the altercation during that altercation?

Did you have access to the investigative reports?

Hope you had a nice time, though.

[janmcn]

What makes you thing that this is not what were asking for too? We also want to see justice served and if the juror pools are so compromised one way or the other that it's impossible to sit an impartial jury because of this "trial by influenced public opinion," how then will justice be served? By a vigilante lynch mob like in the old wild west?

And what if they do manage to find a jury of presumed impartial individuals! Will all the jurors have enough courage to vote their conscience once the facts are all presented to them at trial, if the facts show that Zimmerman is innocent? Or will they vote to convict in fear of potential death threats against them if they don't? It's already happened to some people involved and it surely will happen again against the jurors if they find him innocent!

If Zimmerman is in fact guilty, and he walks free because of what I've just explained, then who is guilty of obstructing justice. I can tell you that it's not us who speak against the rush to judgment and not involved in public protests!

Hopefully the evidence will be strong enough, one way or the other, to have a fair trial if any charges are ever brought. You're making a bit of a leap talking about a "vigilante lynch mob like in the old west". If Casey Anthony could get a fair trial, hopefully George Zimmerman could also, if charged.

[oot]

Think you are missing the point. Its a teen vs adult. The adults are mature and no the difference of right and wrong. The teen is not experienced as the adult. Teens make dumb judgements adults should know better. Teens brains are not developed at that age, if you would have worked around teenagers you would know this. George Zimmerman was the one who acted more like the teenager by not thinking things out.

Police: Florida teen killed parents with hammer, hosted house party - CNN (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-18/justice/florida.parents.killed_1_house-party-police-captain-police-custody?_s=PM:CRIME)
Detroit Teen Says He Killed Mother Because 'I Was Tired Of This' | Loop21 (http://loop21.com/life/teenager-kills-mother-being-called-names-detroit)

Pontiac Teen Kills Father - News Talk 1400 AM WDTK Detroit (http://www.wdtkam.com/article.aspx?id=10304964&catid=-999)
12 Year Old Detroit Boy Kills Young Woman During Robbery - YouTube

I normally don't get into giving my opinion on this site, but the fact that a teen can make a dumb move does not lessen the fact that a teen also has the ability to kill - no matter the size of the teen - or child.

I will hold my judgement on this case until all the facts come out. If you are in law enforcement and you are trying to put together a case you just won't let all your findings out to the public - that is for the trial. You will not make an arrest until you have enough evidence to try to win your case.

There are many law enforcement agencies right now looking into this case. If they find that George Zimmerman was guilty of a crime then I fully believe the will be arrested. If they find he was innocent or there is not enough evidence to bring him to trial - then he will stay free.

No matter what the findings --

Sadly one person is dead and his family is in mourning......

Sadly other lives are forever changed - Zimmerman, his family, the people living in that complex, the City of Sanford - does not matter if Zimmerman is found to be not guilty or guilty......

The media circus will continue ......

[billethkid]

I do not have a link.
I saw the interview on WESH news last night at 11. The NAACP representative said....I am paraphrasing...he thought Sharpton was out of order by calling for a boycott of businesses in Sanford and that he was out of order seeking what Sharpton referred to as "escalation".

There are a good number of blacks who wish Sharpton was not involved. Word of this must have gotten back to him as he stated on camera tonight, NBC 6 PM news...."I am here because Trevons family asked to to come".

Even Jesse Jackson is setting himself apart from Sharpton by stating (6 PM NBC news tonight) to use every possible non violent and peaceful means available without boycotts.

Sharpton is nothing more than a self appointed radical racist...he adds no value for very many and brings shame to his race for most. Just ask any sensible black.

A blight on his race....

btk

[janmcn]

Two experts now say it was Trayvon Martin calling for help, not George Zimmerman as he stated.


Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman 911 call analysis: Two forensic experts say it's not George Zimmerman crying out for help - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty)

[Bucco]

Two experts now say it was Trayvon Martin calling for help, not George Zimmerman as he stated.


Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman 911 call analysis: Two forensic experts say it's not George Zimmerman crying out for help - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty)

HOORAY for you is all I can think of to say...how sad this all is

[janmcn]

I do not have a link.
I saw the interview on WESH news last night at 11. The NAACP representative said....I am paraphrasing...he thought Sharpton was out of order by calling for a boycott of businesses in Sanford and that he was out of order seeking what Sharpton referred to as "escalation".

There are a good number of blacks who wish Sharpton was not involved. Word of this must have gotten back to him as he stated on camera tonight, NBC 6 PM news...."I am here because Trevons family asked to to come".

Even Jesse Jackson is setting himself apart from Sharpton by stating (6 PM NBC news tonight) to use every possible non violent and peaceful means available without boycotts.

Sharpton is nothing more than a self appointed radical racist...he adds no value for very many and brings shame to his race for most. Just ask any sensible black.

A blight on his race....

btk

Rev Sharpton has been saying since the very beginning that he is here because Trayvon's family asked him to come. I don't think that means the NAACP has dropped him as you previously stated, but I will check the WESH transcript to verify.

I heard Rev Jackson's comments tonight and didn't hear him distance himself from Sharpton. We'll see if they appear together tomorrow at the rally in Miami.

Again, the thread is about Trayvon Martin, not Al Sharpton.

[Bucco]

I do not have a link.
I saw the interview on WESH news last night at 11. The NAACP representative said....I am paraphrasing...he thought Sharpton was out of order by calling for a boycott of businesses in Sanford and that he was out of order seeking what Sharpton referred to as "escalation".

There are a good number of blacks who wish Sharpton was not involved. Word of this must have gotten back to him as he stated on camera tonight, NBC 6 PM news...."I am here because Trevons family asked to to come".

Even Jesse Jackson is setting himself apart from Sharpton by stating (6 PM NBC news tonight) to use every possible non violent and peaceful means available without boycotts.

Sharpton is nothing more than a self appointed radical racist...he adds no value for very many and brings shame to his race for most. Just ask any sensible black.

A blight on his race....

btk

"Turner Clayton, the Seminole County chapter president of the NAACP, reacted immediately to Sharpton's warning, saying, "We hope that the citizens of Sanford will govern themselves accordingly. We are not calling for any sanctions, against any business or anyone else. And, of course, what Rev. Sharpton does, that's strictly the [National] Action Network. We can't condone that part of the conversation, if that's what he said."

Civil rights leaders condemn Sharpton's call for escalated civil disobedience | News - Home (http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Civil-rights-leaders-condemn-Sharpton-s-call-for-escalated-civil-disobedience/-/1637132/9863196/-/owq31pz/-/index.html)

Watching people on this forum actually rooting as if there a high school football game is just a very very sad commentary

[RichieLion]

Two experts now say it was Trayvon Martin calling for help, not George Zimmerman as he stated.


Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman 911 call analysis: Two forensic experts say it's not George Zimmerman crying out for help - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty)

His father was played that tape and told police that was not his son.

He later recanted. Guessing he got some legal advice.

Who paid for these "forensic audio experts"?

[Advogado]

Did the Daily Sun explain what the relevance of what Trayvon Martin looked like has to do with his murder?

What murder? There has been a homicide, but it is not at all clear that there was a murder.

[Advogado]

Rev Sharpton has been saying since the very beginning that he is here because Trayvon's family asked him to come. I don't think that means the NAACP has dropped him as you previously stated, but I will check the WESH transcript to verify.

I heard Rev Jackson's comments tonight and didn't hear him distance himself from Sharpton. We'll see if they appear together tomorrow at the rally in Miami.

Again, the thread is about Trayvon Martin, not Al Sharpton.

Wrong. Go back to the first post. This thread is about how the media coverage of the event. Al Sharpton is now a commentator for MSNBC, a news channel so far to the left in its coverage that it makes Fox News seem fair and balanced.

BTW, can you imagine how Sharpton and his ally Jesse Jackson would be reacting if the races of the shooter and deceased were reversed and you had the media and white demonstrators clamoring for the arrest of a black man on the basis of the sketchy public evidence indicating that Zimmerman committed a crime?

[ceejay]

[QUOTE=Advogado;474010
BTW, can you imagine how Sharpton and his ally Jesse Jackson would be reacting if the races of the shooter and deceased were reversed and you had the media and white demonstrators clamoring for the arrest of a black man on the basis of the sketchy public evidence indicating that Zimmerman committed a crime?[/QUOTE]

None of this media circus would have ever happened.

It would have been over by now.

OR

Sharpton and Jackson would have shown up to defend the shooter, claiming it was done in self-defense.

[Taltarzac725]

His father was played that tape and told police that was not his son.

He later recanted. Guessing he got some legal advice.

Who paid for these "forensic audio experts"?

It sounded like a news station or newspaper paid for these experts. The lawyers on various sides of big name cases like OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony always seem to be able to get experts saying black is white and white is black.

Going to have to wait for a trial to get at which side seems to be telling the truth.

[paulandjean]

If is was not for Sharpton and Jackson no one would have known about this. George Zimmerman would have walked away, no charges a free man. He probably would be getting away with murder. Remember all of this happened a month before the lid blew off.

[Taltarzac725]

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin)

They had frozen this wikipedia article a few days ago but it looks like it now has new information added.

[RichieLion]

Wrong. Go back to the first post. This thread is about how the media coverage of the event. Al Sharpton is now a commentator for MSNBC, a news channel so far to the left in its coverage that it makes Fox News seem fair and balanced.

BTW, can you imagine how Sharpton and his ally Jesse Jackson would be reacting if the races of the shooter and deceased were reversed and you had the media and white demonstrators clamoring for the arrest of a black man on the basis of the sketchy public evidence indicating that Zimmerman committed a crime?

This is all and only about race. If Zimmerman was black, or Martin was white, this would be a page 6 story in the paper of maybe 30 words maximum.

[dillywho]

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin)

They had frozen this wikipedia article a few days ago but it looks like it now has new information added.

Very interesting read.

The news on Channel 6 also played the ambulance dispatch recordings last night where the ambulance for Zimmerman was cancelled because it was determined that he didn't need to be transported. An air ambulance was requested for Martin, but they were not allowed to fly because of the bad weather.

[Bucco]

This is all and only about race. If Zimmerman was black, or Martin was white, this would be a page 6 story in the paper of maybe 30 words maximum.

In Kansas City at about the same time as this event, 3 young black youths chased a white young man who was on his way home from school. They chased him to his front porch, poured oil on him, called him a "whitey" and set fire to him.

Awful… Black Youths Douse Student With Gas & Torch Him, “This Is What You Deserve, White Boy” (Video) | The Gateway Pundit (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/awful-black-youths-douese-student-with-gas-torch-him-screaming-this-is-what-you-deserve-white-boy/)

Wondering if anyone heard about this.

And dont start with the stuff.....this case in Florida is so very sad, but it and you are being used so badly. This has become a political ping pong ball and this family will be dropped as fast as you can say "next issue"

[billethkid]

I merely said the NAACP was taking exception to Sharpton's aggressive racist behavior and that in and of itself is a statement....eh?

For the gotta have a links:

Civil rights leaders condemn Sharpton's call for escalated civil disobedience | News - Home (http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Civil-rights-leaders-condemn-Sharpton-s-call-for-escalated-civil-disobedience/-/1637132/9863196/-/owq31pz/-/index.html)

btk

[CMANN]

If is was not for Sharpton and Jackson no one would have known about this. George Zimmerman would have walked away, no charges a free man. He probably would be getting away with murder. Remember all of this happened a month before the lid blew off.

is there any evidence of murder? Is there any reason to show that Zimmerman should not walk away with no charges? I don't understand what you think Sharpton will it off of. You obviously have a very prejudiced opinion. What say you?

[janmcn]

is there any evidence of murder? Is there any reason to show that Zimmerman should not walk away with no charges? I don't understand what you think Sharpton will it off of. You obviously have a very prejudiced opinion. What say you?

Evidence of murder? How about: Dead unarmed 17 year old and George Zimmerman told not to follow him

audio of 911 calls where a person is heard screaming for help

anylysis of 911 calls reporting that voice is not George Zimmerman

video of Zimmerman arriving at station 25 minutes after shot was fired with no visible bruises after saying he had just been in a life or death fight

report by ambulance driver stating Zimmerman did not require first aid at scene

eye-witness accounts

police reports stating Zimmerman should be charged

funeral director stating Trayvon Martin had no bruises indicating a fight took place

Not one word George Zimmerman has said has turned out to be true.

[redwitch]

Did see a news blurb this morning where they enhanced Zimmerman footage when he was brought into the police station showing marks on the back of his head. For now, I'll wait until all facts are out before drawing any conclusions, although I do have my own theories.

I do think Zimmerman should have been charged with something and that, to me, is the big issue -- he was charged with nothing, nada, zilch and a young man died. The investigation seemed to be halfhearted. The Martin family asked that more investigation be conducted, that Zimmerman be arrested. They were denied, so they brought in anyone they could to get publicity out. It worked.

This tragic event gained nationwide (and now worldwide) attention because the Martins wouldn't let it go and kept demanding justice, which they feel has not yet been received. Sharpton, et al., have accomplished what the Martins wanted, although it may not quite end up with the result they wanted. Trayvon is being made out to be a thug. He's being condemned for a gold tooth (which could have been a gift rather than something he purchased by himself); for smoking pot (not so uncommon for his age); basically, for being a young, black male.

Yes, there have been other tragedies before and since this occurrence that resulted in little news. In most of those cases the perpetrator was either arrested or not known. So, really not sure what relevance there is to the posting of other tragic, ugly deaths in the U.S.

[twinklesweep]

Interesting: Every News organiozation in the world has been reporting on this tragic event in Sanford Florida. Not One word in the Daily Sun, The Fun Only Newsletter. It is a shame they call themselves a news organization.

Going back to this, the first post on this thread, which makes the thread about news coverage ONLY, I just received this link in a mass email from I don't even know who. But it IS about news coverage of "this tragic event in Sanford Florida," while so many responses have gone far afield from what the thread was meant to be about.

The only FACTS we truly know are that (1) Zimmerman had the gun, and (2) Martin is dead. Everything else is surmise, political, racist, guessing and second-guessing, ignorance, single-mindedness, and who knows what else. When this sad incident is played out in the proper channels, maybe then we'll know the real truth. Maybe! I too am posting ONLY about news coverage, so let's see where this takes us! Link below:

Fox News Coverage of the Trayvon Martin Case Criticized - The Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/20/fox-news-coverage-of-the-trayvon-martin-case-criticized.html?obref=obinsite)

[twinklesweep]

When I read through the posts on this thread, I cannot help but notice that some make outrageous statements that are either completely ignored by the poster or are responded to in a way that is completely irrelevant to the point that was raised. Since I cannot figure out how to quote a post that includes a quote, here are a couple of examples I can think of:

A comment that having gold teeth = being a drug dealer. Huh? The response was that making such an assumption would be like making the assumption that everyone in TV wearing a sun visor = being a golfer. This seems reasonable to me, since I wear a visor and I am not a golfer. Then too, I don't have gold teeth.

A comment that the rally in Sanford was a "lynching committee," and when someone who ACTUALLY attended stated that it was a rally supporting justice in the case, the response raised several points--but completely ignored the falsity of the original statement that it would be a "lynching committee." We know from history what a "lynching committee" means! I could not even comment on an event that I'm not going to attend in terms of what the tone of it will be. But that's me.

My previous post is clear: The only "truth" we will know is when this is played out by the appropriate authorities, so I'm not taking a position. All I can do is agree with the poster who pointed out those whose view on so much is "Don't confuse me with the facts. My mind is already made up." Sad, this quality of the behavior and attitudes of some, but not surprising, to me anyway.

[CMANN]

Evidence of murder? How about: Dead unarmed 17 year old and George Zimmerman told not to follow him

audio of 911 calls where a person is heard screaming for help

anylysis of 911 calls reporting that voice is not George Zimmerman

video of Zimmerman arriving at station 25 minutes after shot was fired with no visible bruises after saying he had just been in a life or death fight

report by ambulance driver stating Zimmerman did not require first aid at scene

eye-witness accounts

police reports stating Zimmerman should be charged

funeral director stating Trayvon Martin had no bruises indicating a fight took place

Not one word George Zimmerman has said has turned out to be true.

Like I said, evidence of murder?

[janmcn]

The FBI is on the scene. They will get to the bottom of this. Plus the grand jury will evaluate the evidence on April 10, next Tuesday.

[Taltarzac725]

The FBI is on the scene. They will get to the bottom of this. Plus the grand jury will evaluate the evidence on April 10, next Tuesday.

Good to hear.

[CMANN]

The FBI is on the scene. They will get to the bottom of this. Plus the grand jury will evaluate the evidence on April 10, next Tuesday.

On what grounds is the federal government getting involved in a state case?

[Taltarzac725]

On what grounds is the federal government getting involved in a state case?

Professor Kami Chavis Simmons publishes ‘Justice for Trayvon Martin and James Craig Anderson: Federal Hate Crimes Legislation and the Case for Cooperative Federalism’ in The Huffington Post | News & Events | Wake Forest School of Law (http://news.law.wfu.edu/2012/04/justice-for-trayvon-martin-and-james-craig-anderson-federal-hate-crimes-legislation-and-the-case-for-cooperative-federalism/)

[CMANN]

Professor Kami Chavis Simmons publishes ‘Justice for Trayvon Martin and James Craig Anderson: Federal Hate Crimes Legislation and the Case for Cooperative Federalism’ in The Huffington Post | News & Events | Wake Forest School of Law (http://news.law.wfu.edu/2012/04/justice-for-trayvon-martin-and-james-craig-anderson-federal-hate-crimes-legislation-and-the-case-for-cooperative-federalism/)

Another racist stretch! IMHO

[janmcn]

Another racist stretch! IMHO

Apparently the Justice Department didn't find it a stretch when they dispatched the FBI to the scene.

[redwitch]

I know the Martin family specifically requested that the Feds investigate the lack of any charges being brought against Zimmerman. They stated they not only did not trust the Sanford PD, but had grave doubts that the State would investigate fairly. So, perhaps Sanford itself requested that the Feds investigate (good political move for a town that is desperately trying to get their reputation back since many are boycotting Sanford) and the Feds will usually step in when a request by a municipal entity.

[manaboutown]

This is so typical of the mainstream media.

NBC fires producer over edited Zimmerman 911 call | The Upshot - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/nbc-fires-producer-over-edited-zimmerman-911-call-201124740.html)

[janmcn]

This is so typical of the mainstream media.

NBC fires producer over edited Zimmerman 911 call | The Upshot - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/nbc-fires-producer-over-edited-zimmerman-911-call-201124740.html)

NBC did the right thing firing this producer over edited calls, as did the National Review when they fired John Derbeyshire for his racist rants.


National Review Fires Derbyshire | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/04/07/460206/national-review-fires-derbyshire/?mobile=nc)

[skyguy79]

This is so typical of the mainstream media.

NBC fires producer over edited Zimmerman 911 call | The Upshot - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/nbc-fires-producer-over-edited-zimmerman-911-call-201124740.html)

NBC did the right thing firing this producer over edited calls, as did the National Review when they fired John Derbeyshire for his racist rants.

National Review Fires Derbyshire | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/04/07/460206/national-review-fires-derbyshire/?mobile=nc)Did NBC really do the right thing? John Derbeyshire was specifically named and for what he did whereas the phantom NBC producer was not named nor was any wrong doing admitted - only statement made was that a "procedural mistake" was made and no apology by any wrong doer. And as for any investigation? Well NBC investigating isn't much more creditable than if it was only the gated community in Sanford investigating Zimmerman. Manaboutown is correct. It is typical of a mainstream media organization like NBC. Wasn't their first lack of journalistic integrity, and undoubtedly won't be their last!

[janmcn]

NBC News is reporting that the special prosecutor appointed in this case, Angela Corey, will not convene the grand jury as scheduled tomorrow. Hopefully, this is good news and means that an arrest is imminent, at least that is what the family is lead to believe.

[manaboutown]

Here is an update on the evidence and how the mainstream media has distorted the situation so much from the get go, creating myths, rather than reporting the facts. For example, they conveniently left out much of the Zimmerman's 911 call which indicated he was no longer attempting to confront the young man. Indeed, it appears Martin attacked Zimmerman from behind. Tayvon Martin « The Conservative Review (http://www.theconservativereview.com/tag/tayvon-martin/)

[Advogado]

NBC News is reporting that the special prosecutor appointed in this case, Angela Corey, will not convene the grand jury as scheduled tomorrow. Hopefully, this is good news and means that an arrest is imminent, at least that is what the family is lead to believe.

Why would an arrest necessarily be good news? It might or might not be, depending on ALL the facts, which at this point, neither you, the the media, nor Al Sharpton has.

[Bucco]

NBC News is reporting that the special prosecutor appointed in this case, Angela Corey, will not convene the grand jury as scheduled tomorrow. Hopefully, this is good news and means that an arrest is imminent, at least that is what the family is lead to believe.

Here is hoping that NBC will not doctor the NEWS this time and just report it.

[paulandjean]

"Why would a arrest be good news"? Because he did wrong,and you get arrested for doing things wrong.We hear all about Geoge Zimmerman and "Stand Your Ground" maybe you could also say Travon Martin was doing the same thing. Standing His Ground.

[Advogado]

"Why would a arrest be good news"? Because he did wrong,and you get arrested for doing things wrong.We hear all about Geoge Zimmerman and "Stand Your Ground" maybe you could also say Travon Martin was doing the same thing. Standing His Ground.

You hopefully don't get arrested for doing what in your, or my view, is the wrong thing. Otherwise a whole lot of people would get arrested when they have committed no crime.

For example, I think that you, Al Sharpton, and the media are doing the wrong thing in calling for Zimmerman's arrest (on the basis of now-publicly- available information), rather than demanding a more-thorough look at the case, if you think that the original investigation was flawed. While you, in my view, are certainly doing the wrong thing, I not calling for your arrest.

You hopefully only get arrested when law enforcement authorities have "probable cause" to believe that you committed a CRIME. When, and if, law enforcement authorities truly believe (as opposed to being pressured by one-sided reporting in the media and by Sharpton-led demonstrations) that they have probable cause to believe that George Zimmerman committed a CRIME, I will join you in calling his arrest "good news".

[skyguy79]

"Why would a arrest be good news"? Because he did wrong,and you get arrested for doing things wrong.We hear all about Geoge Zimmerman and "Stand Your Ground" maybe you could also say Travon Martin was doing the same thing. Standing His Ground.It's not "Because he did wrong," but rather "IF" he did wrong! The findings of back seat judges and jurors have no place in an American Justice System. BTW, who's paying for the expenses to municipal budgets across our country for the security needs surrounding those engaging in all these back seat justice activities? Well, you can be sure it's the working & retired tax payers and not the civil and racial activists participating in these excessive activities! These kinds don't care what their excessive actions cost others!

[Bogie Shooter]

Here is an update on the evidence and how the mainstream media has distorted the situation so much from the get go, creating myths, rather than reporting the facts. For example, they conveniently left out much of the Zimmerman's 911 call which indicated he was no longer attempting to confront the young man. Indeed, it appears Martin attacked Zimmerman from behind. Tayvon Martin « The Conservative Review (http://www.theconservativereview.com/tag/tayvon-martin/)

the conservative review.....just another opinion.

[paulandjean]

Who cares who,s paying for the extra security. So you say people cannot demostrate because of the costs. Get real

[paulandjean]

Like the reference "These Kinds"

[kirk1]

If a thorough investigation had been done by Sanford PD that night, I feel a lot of problems could have been avoided. I ask myself if Sanford PD would have kissed it off as self defense if Martin was white and Zimmerman was black or If Martin had an ID showing he lived in the complex. This case should have been treated as a homicide, until proven otherwise by evidence found at the scene and witness statements.
This does not mean that Zimmerman had to be arrested that night. It does mean that Zimmerman should have been treated like a suspect and evidence taken to help prove it was self defense. Now FDLE, FBI and the DOJ will not have access to evidence and statements that would have been collected by a professional law enforcement agency.
The Huffington Post has even done an article on how sloppy Sanford PD is in their investigations. It seems to be the norm for Sanford PD.

Trayvon Martin Case Spotlights Florida Town's History Of 'Sloppy' Police Work (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/09/trayvon-martin-cops-botched-investigation_n_1409277.html)

[dillywho]

Google Brian Deneke and read the Wikipedia article. This is a kid that was killed in Amarillo in 1997 because of how he looked....not the person he was. He was deliberately run down by another kid, Dustin Camp ("preppie"), in his dad's Cadillac one night in December. He enjoyed the "punk" look and the music but was actually a really good kid. City Confidential has profiled this case. Seems to be a parallel here with Martin being targeted for how he looked.

The entire town of Amarillo came up in arms when Camp received a probated sentence (manslaughter) instead of jail time. It took him less than 6 months to violate that probation and was sent to serve his time. Not only that, but his dad was arrested and charged for lying about Camp's actions that violated his probation.

[manaboutown]

[QUOTE=dillywho;477285]Google Brian Deneke and read the Wikipedia article. This is a kid that was killed in Amarillo in 1997 because of how he looked....not the person he was. He was deliberately run down by another kid, Dustin Camp ("preppie"), in his dad's Cadillac one night in December. He enjoyed the "punk" look and the music but was actually a really good kid. City Confidential has profiled this case. Seems to be a parallel here with Martin being targeted for how he looked.QUOTE]

A "really good kid" parallel here? Oh sure. Trayvon was a model citizen. He bragged on twitter about "bashing" a bus driver, got caught with a bag full of women's jewelry and a screwdriver in his backpack by a school security guard and was staying with his father while under his THIRD suspension from school.

[rubicon]

The Trayvon issue is created a deeper divide in race relations. It was just reported that a green highway sign in Detroit carried a racial slur. It was all so predictable

[RichieLion]

The Trayvon issue is created a deeper divide in race relations. It was just reported that a green highway sign in Detroit carried a racial slur. It was all so predictable

I'm willing to bet that the sign was written by one of the racial arsonists demonstrating in Florida. That's usually the case in these things, as in the plagiarizing college professor who is "suspected" of hanging a noose on her own door to deflect the fireable offense, and started a crisis in her college that produced many many days of "news".

Columbia Professor Hangs Her Own Noose By Plagiarizing > Columbia, madonna constantine, plagiarism | IvyGate (http://www.ivygateblog.com/2008/02/columbia-professor-hangs-her-own-noose-by-plagiarizing/)

[skyguy79]

Who cares who,s paying for the extra security. So you say people cannot demostrate because of the costs. Get realWho cares? Well it's certainly not those who would say "Who cares" when it comes to unnecessary spending of taxpayers money!

And no way did I say that people cannot demonstrate. I'm simply implying that people shouldn't demonstrate to ridiculous excess. Furthermore, I don't appreciate your attacking me by spinning and embellishing what I said to make people believe I was saying something that I was definitely not saying. Go back and read what I stated as many times as you need until you can properly comprehend it!

And in response to your other post... by using the term "these kinds" I'm strictly referring to those who demonstrate to unreasonable and costly excess, nothing more, nothing less. I'm not what you're trying to make me out to be!

I can't say for sure what your motivation is, but you should really consider who needs to get real, because it's not me. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill, and that only serves to further denigrating your own overall creditability!

http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/stock/smiley-sign0171.gif

[kirk1]

I'm willing to bet that the sign was written by one of the racial arsonists demonstrating in Florida.

What is a "racial arsonist" and why from Florida? What does a"racial arsonist" look like so I can avoid them at LSL or SS?

:confused:

[skyguy79]

What is a "racial arsonist" and why from Florida? What does a"racial arsonist" look like so I can avoid them at LSL or SS?

:confused:A "Racial Arsonist" is a term that Jamaican-born American sociologist Orlando Patterson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Patterson) used to describe Al Sharpton. Some would also describe it a race baiter. You can read more about it at the following link:

Al Sharpton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sharpton)

[dillywho]

[QUOTE=dillywho;477285]Google Brian Deneke and read the Wikipedia article. This is a kid that was killed in Amarillo in 1997 because of how he looked....not the person he was. He was deliberately run down by another kid, Dustin Camp ("preppie"), in his dad's Cadillac one night in December. He enjoyed the "punk" look and the music but was actually a really good kid. City Confidential has profiled this case. Seems to be a parallel here with Martin being targeted for how he looked.QUOTE]

A "really good kid" parallel here? Oh sure. Trayvon was a model citizen. He bragged on twitter about "bashing" a bus driver, got caught with a bag full of women's jewelry and a screwdriver in his backpack by a school security guard and was staying with his father while under his THIRD suspension from school.

I didn't say that Martin was a good or bad kid. I said Brian was a good kid and there were many who vouched for him, including his boss. I don't know what kind Martin was for a fact and neither did Zimmerman when he set out to play private eye on foot. The parallel I was making was that he was judged and targeted by Zimmerman for how he was dressed just as Brian had been and he, too, paid for the way he looked.

As for Martin's twitters, what he got caught in school with in his backpack, had nothing to do with that night. He had Skittles, tea, and a cell phone then. That won't get anyone a suspension and sure shouldn't get anyone killed. Zimmerman didn't know a thing about his twitters, suspensions, or anything else. He simply called in someone he "thought" was suspicious, "though" was young, "thought" was male, "thought" was maybe black, and was wearing a hoodie.

If Zimmerman had simply done what he was supposed to do which was 1) call in, 2) report what was going on, the location and direction of travel, and then 3) leave the rest to the authorities, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

[RichieLion]

What is a "racial arsonist" and why from Florida? What does a"racial arsonist" look like so I can avoid them at LSL or SS?

:confused:

I thought the altered sign was in Florida when I first heard this story, but otherwise I stick with my comment.

On your other thoughts; get a clue.

[Taltarzac725]

I didn't say that Martin was a good or bad kid. I said Brian was a good kid and there were many who vouched for him, including his boss. I don't know what kind Martin was for a fact and neither did Zimmerman when he set out to play private eye on foot. The parallel I was making was that he was judged and targeted by Zimmerman for how he was dressed just as Brian had been and he, too, paid for the way he looked.

As for Martin's twitters, what he got caught in school with in his backpack, had nothing to do with that night. He had Skittles, tea, and a cell phone then. That won't get anyone a suspension and sure shouldn't get anyone killed. Zimmerman didn't know a thing about his twitters, suspensions, or anything else. He simply called in someone he "thought" was suspicious, "though" was young, "thought" was male, "thought" was maybe black, and was wearing a hoodie.

If Zimmerman had simply done what he was supposed to do which was 1) call in, 2) report what was going on, the location and direction of travel, and then 3) leave the rest to the authorities, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

Just from watching the news last night and based on a gut feeling, it sounds like Zimmerman will be arrested soon. George Zimmerman seeks donations on his new website - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57411603/george-zimmerman-seeks-donations-on-his-new-website/)

[billethkid]

It could happen if the legal representatives have worked their maneuvering magic arriving at the least future harmful state that could quiet down the race rhetoric.

Remember OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony were arrested too!!!

btk

[Taltarzac725]

It could happen if the legal representatives have worked their maneuvering magic arriving at the least future harmful state that could quiet down the race rhetoric.

Remember OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony were arrested too!!!

btk

And both seemed to be treated fairly in their criminal trials. In neither cases did the prosecution prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

This Trayvon Martin matter though looks a lot more complicated than either the OJ Simpson Case or the Casey Anthony cases because of the very real impact of the issue of race relations into it as well as national politics with this being an election year.

[RichieLion]

And both seemed to be treated fairly in their criminal trials. In neither cases did the prosecution prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

This Trayvon Martin matter though looks a lot more complicated than either the OJ Simpson Case or the Casey Anthony cases because of the very real impact of the issue of race relations into it as well as national politics with this being an election year.

The only wrinkle here is if Zimmerman is tried and acquitted; be prepared for the riots. It a good excuse to get some new threads and some flat screen tv's.

[billethkid]

while this may be more true than some of us would like to think:

"...very real impact of the issue of race relations into it as well as national politics with this being an election year...."

it has nothing to do with the eyes of justice.

I get increasingly concerned when the real issues of life and death are measured by public opinion or race or politics instead of the courts.

Even the if then statements like if aquitted, then unrest/etc.

We have gone so many years without having to watch what is said and done by whom, about what or how they said it or who did what.
I am glad I came through life when I did with most all of it satisfied by measuring what somebody did/said/didn't do or say against RIGHT OR WRONG.

I think America was stronger for it.

Today's insatiable need to satisfy special interest groups, minority groups (including race), and just about anybody who raised their hand for just about anything they don't like have watered America's values to a point where there is no clear distinction between right and wrong....just what makes the one's with their hand up happy. Or if you happen to be a politician make those who would vote for you happy....RIGHT or WRONG.

We may have advanced with all the new technology of the day. But the real core values continue their steady decline.....driven by the special interest groups and minorities (race included)....while the majority gets dragged down in quality of life as a result.

In my very humble opinion.

btk

[buggyone]

The US Attorney General is not in charge of local police activities such as Sanford, Florida. If the New Black Panthers are breaking the law, it would be up to the local police or state police to take care of the incident.

There have also been reports of armed Neo-Nazis on patrol in Sanford to "protect" white people. That cannot lead to anything good, either.

I read that the special investigator has decided not to put Zimmerman in front of a grand jury. Sounds like a mistake to me but time will tell. If there was enough evidence to indict with a grand jury, the charges could be made. If not enough evidence, the case could be closed.

In any case, Zimmerman definitely made the mistake of his life when he disobeyed the police operator and followed Martin that night. He and his family definitely will have to leave the area and take different names for their own safety after his stupid action. I am not saying Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter but of stupidity for his actions of following Martin that night while armed.

I believe Figmo has said in previous posts on other topics that anyone who has a CCW permit should be prepared to pay tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees if they ever shoot anyone in any situation.

This is just another reason that I say carrying a firearm is foolish.

[paulandjean]

This is crazy"Neo-Nazis in Sanford protecting white people" What if they do not want to be protected by them. This is the Deep South,more like KKK stirring up trouble.And everyone knows they are the worst on this planet.

[RichieLion]

The US Attorney General is not in charge of local police activities such as Sanford, Florida. If the New Black Panthers are breaking the law, it would be up to the local police or state police to take care of the incident.

Unless the actions of the Black Panther Party, as in the "bounty", combined with their bullhorn shouted rhetoric rise to the level of a "hate crime".

Some could argue they're already apparently guilty of that.

New Black Panthers Call Violent Race War For Trayvon Martin Protest: We Have To Spill The Blood of White Devils (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/08/new-black-panthers-call-violent-race-war-for-trayvon-martin-protest-we-have-to-spill-the-blood-of-white-devils/)

Report: New Black Panther Party Issues ‘Wanted Dead or Alive’ Poster for George Zimmerman | Video | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/report-new-black-panther-party-issues-wanted-dead-or-alive-poster-for-george-zimmerman/)

[janmcn]

Just from watching the news last night and based on a gut feeling, it sounds like Zimmerman will be arrested soon. George Zimmerman seeks donations on his new website - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57411603/george-zimmerman-seeks-donations-on-his-new-website/)

This is a great opportunity for all the George Zimmerman supporters on this forum to contribute to his defence. He's also looking for donations for his living expenses. Hopefully, Seminole County will soon provide a roof over his head and three squares a day.

[manaboutown]

My concern is that the mainstream media regularly misrepresents situations, some times surreptitiously, sometimes blatantly. Unfortunately this particular matter was injected with racial overtones and implications from a deliberate falsehood aired by NBC. By removing the 911 dispatcher's question about Martin's apparent race, if known, NBC made it appear Zimmerman volunteered Martin's race whereas he was asked it. In any case, wouldn't the police want as good a description as possible in order to find Martin who had by then disappeared from Zimmerman's sight? If Martin had appeared to have been white would it not have been helpful to the police to know that?

NBC News President Insists Zimmerman Edit 'Not a Deliberate Act to Misrepresent' | NewsBusters.org (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-sheffield/2012/04/08/nbc-insists-zimmerman-audio-edit-not-deliberate-act-misrepresent)

[CMANN]

And both seemed to be treated fairly in their criminal trials. In neither cases did the prosecution prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

This Trayvon Martin matter though looks a lot more complicated than either the OJ Simpson Case or the Casey Anthony cases because of the very real impact of the issue of race relations into it as well as national politics with this being an election year.

what is so complicated? Zimmerman says that he shot Martin in self-defense. Those are the facts.

Unless there are other facts that can be proven it was a simple case of self-defense.

Again, what is so complicated?

[Taltarzac725]

This is a great opportunity for all the George Zimmerman supporters on this forum to contribute to his defence. He's also looking for donations for his living expenses. Hopefully, Seminole County will soon provide a roof over his head and three squares a day.

They will probably have to go to the most rural area of Alaska though to find a jury pool not tainted by all the press of the Trayvon Martin matter.

[CMANN]

The US Attorney General is not in charge of local police activities such as Sanford, Florida. If the New Black Panthers are breaking the law, it would be up to the local police or state police to take care of the incident.

There have also been reports of armed Neo-Nazis on patrol in Sanford to "protect" white people. That cannot lead to anything good, either.

I read that the special investigator has decided not to put Zimmerman in front of a grand jury. Sounds like a mistake to me but time will tell. If there was enough evidence to indict with a grand jury, the charges could be made. If not enough evidence, the case could be closed.

In any case, Zimmerman definitely made the mistake of his life when he disobeyed the police operator and followed Martin that night. He and his family definitely will have to leave the area and take different names for their own safety after his stupid action. I am not saying Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter but of stupidity for his actions of following Martin that night while armed.

I believe Figmo has said in previous posts on other topics that anyone who has a CCW permit should be prepared to pay tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees if they ever shoot anyone in any situation.

This is just another reason that I say carrying a firearm is foolish.

the reason for the castle law and the stand your ground law is to protect an honest citizen who acted in self-defense from being punished by confiscatory legal fees and lawsuits. That takes some of the silliness out of protecting yourself.

It sounds like your solution would be to let the holdup man take my money or let the lawyers take my money. Either way I don't think that I want you for a friend.

[Advogado]

This is a great opportunity for all the George Zimmerman supporters on this forum to contribute to his defence. He's also looking for donations for his living expenses. Hopefully, Seminole County will soon provide a roof over his head and three squares a day.
I haven't seen any posts here by George Zimmerman supporters. Others and myself have simply criticized:
1. The media for its one-sided reporting of the incident (see, e.g., the NBC doctored tape, use of Martin's childhood picture juxtaposed against Zimmerman's old mug shot from a 2005 arrest, almost no mention of Martin's history of getting in trouble, the NY Times editorial characterizing the shooting as "cold blooded");
2. Posters such as yourself for calling for Zimmerman's arrest on the basis of the incomplete public information now available; and
3. Racial demagogues, such as Sharpton and Jackson for inciting unrest and hatred on the basis of the same incomplete information.

The basic fact remains that, so far, the people with access to all the available facts have determined that there is not even the probable cause necessary to arrest Zimmerman, much less evidence sufficient to convict him beyond a reasonable doubt. Maybe the new investigation will determine otherwise, but if so, the press, people like yourself, and the racial demagogues have now cast a shadow over any outcome except an arrest.

What I can't understand is: Why are you so insistent, based upon what you actually know at this point, on convicting Zimmerman? Is it just your gut feeling that he is guilty, because so far, the public facts do not support your position?

[skyguy79]

what is so complicated? Zimmerman says that he shot Martin in self-defense. Those are the facts.

Unless there are other facts that can be proven it was a simple case of self-defense.

Again, what is so complicated?There was nothing so complicated about it... then, unfortunately enters racial, political and even journalistic activism. Remember the now famous quotation?... "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste!" Those elements don't really care for justice to take it's proper due course. They just want to exercise that quoted concept to achieve whatever their hidden agenda is and to h*** with the cost or whomever it may hurt! The cost part of that last statement has already been openly and directly expressed already on this forum. I wonder if it will now also be expressed, "who cares who gets hurt!" :ohdear:

[bkcunningham1]

I haven't seen any posts here by George Zimmerman supporters. Others and myself have simply criticized:
1. The media for its one-sided reporting of the incident (see, e.g., the NBC doctored tape, use of Martin's childhood picture juxtaposed against Zimmerman's old mug shot from a 2005 arrest, almost no mention of Martin's history of getting in trouble, the NY Times editorial characterizing the shooting as "cold blooded");
2. Posters such as yourself for calling for Zimmerman's arrest on the basis of the incomplete public information now available; and
3. Racial demagogues, such as Sharpton and Jackson for inciting unrest and hatred on the basis of the same incomplete information.

The basic fact remains that, so far, the people with access to all the available facts have determined that there is not even the probable cause necessary to arrest Zimmerman, much less evidence sufficient to convict him beyond a reasonable doubt. Maybe the new investigation will determine otherwise, but if so, the press, people like yourself, and the racial demagogues have now cast a shadow over any outcome except an arrest.

What I can't understand is: Why are you so insistent, based upon what you actually know at this point, on convicting Zimmerman? Is it just your gut feeling that he is guilty, because so far, the public facts do not support your position?


Now, this is an example, IMHO, of an excellent response. Well done. I don't know if I've formally said welcome to Talk of the Villages to you; but welcome to TOTV. Very fair and accurate post.

[paulandjean]

Two 17 year olds on the ground fighting, The one on top punching,the one on the bottom pulls out a gun and shoots and kills the other teenager ????

[RichieLion]

Two 17 year olds on the ground fighting, The one on top punching,the one on the bottom pulls out a gun and shoots and kills the other teenager ????

The story told is that Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk. If someone was doing that to me and I was armed; the end result would probably be the same.

[janmcn]

George Zimmerman's lawyers just announced they are no longer representing him and have been unable to contact him since Sunday. Zimmerman himself contacted the special prosecutors offices and requested a meeting, but was told no because he needs to be represented by an attorney. He also called Sean Hannity and had a conversation with him that has not been disclosed. His lawyers did say in their press conference that Zimmerman is not in Florida.

[manaboutown]

Zimmerman's lawyers also say they believe he is innocent and acted in self defense as they will be able to show if and when they need to come forward with the evidence.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-attorney-hold-press-conference-4-30pm-203437097.html

[manaboutown]

A tidbit, perhaps tangentially related to the instant case, on how the mainstream media, in this case the Washington Post, mislead the public regarding Florida's stand your ground law.
Stand Your Ground | Why the Washington Post is wrong about Stand Your Ground laws | The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/09/why-the-washington-post-is-wrong-about-stand-your-ground-laws/)

[dillywho]

I'll probably catch it for this, but isn't doing things his way instead of how he was instructed to perform his neighborhood watch function what got him into this mess in the first place?:duck: Apparently, he doesn't listen to anyone.

[buggyone]

the reason for the castle law and the stand your ground law is to protect an honest citizen who acted in self-defense from being punished by confiscatory legal fees and lawsuits. That takes some of the silliness out of protecting yourself.

It sounds like your solution would be to let the holdup man take my money or let the lawyers take my money. Either way I don't think that I want you for a friend.

As far as I know, CMANN, even if a shooter such as Zimmerman did act in self-defense (which has or has not yet been proved), they are still going to be responsible for their own legal fees. These legal fees can easily hit $50,000 to well over $100,000 - and those are not covered by insurance, Medicare, or Social Security! Those are your out-of-pocket fees.

If I am mistaken in the responsibility for the charged person to pay their own legal fees under the "castle law" or "stand your ground" law, let me know and please show me in the laws where it says a shooter does not have to pay for legal defense. Thank you. Friendship with me has nothing to do with this.

[skyguy79]

The story told is that Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk. If someone was doing that to me and I was armed; the end result would probably be the same.So would any person, some just won't admit it!

Zimmerman's lawyers also say they believe he is innocent and acted in self defense as they will be able to show if and when they need to come forward with the evidence.
George Zimmerman attorneys quit as counsel | The Lookout - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-attorney-hold-press-conference-4-30pm-203437097.html):thumbup: Any surprise that was omitted?

I'll probably catch it for this, but isn't doing things his way instead of how he was instructed to perform his neighborhood watch function what got him into this mess in the first place?:duck: Apparently, he doesn't listen to anyone.Nothing to catch, but it's not yet factually known what exactly happened afterward - only assumptions and fabrications!

[skyguy79]

As far as I know, CMANN, even if a shooter such as Zimmerman did act in self-defense (which has or has not yet been proved), they are still going to be responsible for their own legal fees. These legal fees can easily hit $50,000 to well over $100,000 - and those are not covered by insurance, Medicare, or Social Security! Those are your out-of-pocket fees.

If I am mistaken in the responsibility for the charged person to pay their own legal fees under the "castle law" or "stand your ground" law, let me know and please show me in the laws where it says a shooter does not have to pay for legal defense. Thank you. Friendship with me has nothing to do with this.You'll find exactly what the law states in Title XLVI - Chapter 776.032 of the 2011 Florida Statutes.

Ref: Statutes (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html)

[paulandjean]

If Zimmerman head was being slammed to the concrete,sure did not look like it when he was getting out of the police car. Hospital nope.Could be Trevon Martin was standing his ground when be followed by this guy. Glad Jackson and Sharpton got invovled with this,sounds like Sandford Police would have done nothing. These men brought attention to the lack of action on this case. Do not think just minorities are protesting this from the pictures I have seen on TV.

[buggyone]

Thanks for the link, Skyguy. I think the information says, though, that if someone were sued for wrongful death and it was proven they acted in self-defense, that the reasonable attorney fees would be awarded to them.

I was talking of the attorney fees that a person would have to spend in order to have it proven the death was in self-defense. I don't think those are covered but I am no attorney.

The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

[janmcn]

Special Prosecutor Angela Corey just announced that she will hold a press conference within 72 hours to announce new details.