Broken Promises of ObamaCare

[Guest]

Promise #1 Under my plan no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of a tax.

75% of those making under $120,000 will see a 2.3% medical device tax, 10% excise tax on tanning and their adjust gross income will rise from7.5% to10%

Promise #2 If you like your healthcare plan you will be able to keep it.

Already 30% of emploers acknowledge with the implemntation of ObaCare they will drop their coverages.

Promise #3 I will not sign into law a plan that will add one dime now or in the future

Ask the CBO their recent projections based on Team obama's submissions to them

Promise #4 I will protect medicare

Yea because ObamaCare will end medicare

Promise #5I will sign into law a health care bill which will cover every american and cut costs of any type of premiums yp to $2,500 a year

some 22 million americans will still not be covered by this plan ..Again ask the CBO about the decrease in premium scenario

Liberty Council 7/6

[Guest]

Promise #1 Under my plan no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of a tax.

75% of those making under $120,000 will see a 2.3% medical device tax, 10% excise tax on tanning and their adjust gross income will rise from7.5% to10%

Promise #2 If you like your healthcare plan you will be able to keep it.

Already 30% of emploers acknowledge with the implemntation of ObaCare they will drop their coverages.

Promise #3 I will not sign into law a plan that will add one dime now or in the future

Ask the CBO their recent projections based on Team obama's submissions to them

Promise #4 I will protect medicare

Yea because ObamaCare will end medicare

Promise #5I will sign into law a health care bill which will cover every american and cut costs of any type of premiums yp to $2,500 a year

some 22 million americans will still not be covered by this plan ..Again ask the CBO about the decrease in premium scenario

Liberty Council 7/6

None of this matters dont you see !!!! We cant afford it either, now stand by as you are called all kind of insensitive things because how dare you question HIM on a bill that does so many good things. Lying is acceptable in this administration...has been going on from day one.

The items in the bill are good...IT IS NOT WHAT WE WERE TOLD..not even close !! This bill as said many times is a disaster and will bring this country to its needs in its present form.

[Guest]

I could pick your post apart bit by bit but that takes too long. How about just on " 10% excise tax on tanning "?

This went into effect in 2010. Are you in favor of skin cancer? Tanning salons promote skin cancer. When we are on the golf courses or by the pools, we have enough sense to apply sunscreen. The tanning salons are for that all-over tan and no sunscreen is used.

Personally, I feel tanning salons should be banned and not just have a 10% tax put on them.
_____________________________

Another poster writes, "Lying is acceptable in this administration...has been going on from day one." He should go back to the Junior Bush administration where lying cost over 4,400 American lives, the Clinton Administration where certain sex acts were not sex, the Carter administration where rabbits attacked people; the LBJ administration where lies were told about US ships being attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin.

[Guest]

THANK YOU Rubicon for posting how this HUGE TAX INCREASE will affect us all!! Those that fall in the "still not sure" category please investigate this. He is correct!! those on other side of fence still just don't care. They are like plants growing looking for water and sunshine and don't realize the "weeds" are overtaking them at a very quick rate of speed until they die and can no longer exist.

[Guest]

Ridiculous.....absurd......totally false. :(

[Guest]

Ridiculous.....absurd......totally false. :(

Just wonderin' DaleMN...can you back up your claims of "ridiculous", "absurd" and "totally false"?

What are your thoughts (besides those 4 words)?

I would love to see a factful and well-thought out answer from you instead of your tweets.

How about it?:smiley:

[Guest]

Just wonderin' DaleMN...can you back up your claims of "ridiculous", "absurd" and "totally false"?

What are your thoughts (besides those 4 words)?

I would love to see a factful and well-thought out answer from you instead of your tweets.

How about it?:smiley:

Four words pretty much summarizes it. :D

[Guest]

I never get an answer but I will keep on trying.

So if we give you supporters of Obamacare that it is the end all cure all that you think it is....is it OK with you that the OMB has been waving a red flag about the costs embedded in the bill?

Are you OK with being taxed what ever amount it will take to to do all the great things you think it will provide

Are you OK with watered down medicare coverage as those dollars are use for Obamacare?

Would you buy anything that you did not know how much it was going to cost you?

Would you trust a salesperson who tells you don't worry about the cost, just sign the contract and we will work out the numbers later?

C'mon now....no partisan flag waving we know where you are seated. The rising costs will affect everyone including you.

Is it OK with you?

btk

[Guest]

I could pick your post apart bit by bit but that takes too long. How about just on " 10% excise tax on tanning "?

This went into effect in 2010. Are you in favor of skin cancer? Tanning salons promote skin cancer. When we are on the golf courses or by the pools, we have enough sense to apply sunscreen. The tanning salons are for that all-over tan and no sunscreen is used.

Personally, I feel tanning salons should be banned and not just have a 10% tax put on them.
_____________________________

Another poster writes, "Lying is acceptable in this administration...has been going on from day one." He should go back to the Junior Bush administration where lying cost over 4,400 American lives, the Clinton Administration where certain sex acts were not sex, the Carter administration where rabbits attacked people; the LBJ administration where lies were told about US ships being attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin.



1. We are talking about the current administration. I assume that you are saying that this President can lie because others have done so. I would disagree on that.

2. I hope you find the time to " pick your post apart bit by bit " and look forward to that !!!

Here are a few items just to help you research...

....Drug manufactures will pay the government 16 Billion in the next 8 years
.....Health insurer will pay 47 Billion in the next 8 years
.....Medical device manufacturers will pay 2.9% excise tax on the sale of any of any of their products beginning in 2013
.....Government payments to Medicaire advantage will be reduced by
132 Billion over 10 years
.....Medicaire payments for home health care will be reduced by 40 Billion
.....Cuts in some certain payments to hospitals will be reduced.
.....Extra social security taxes to be paid because of pay raised that folks
will receive in lieu of companies paying for health insurance
.....In 2018 insurance companies will pay a 40% excise tax on any high end
insurance policies
..... A 3.9 tax on investment income for individuals over 200M and families
over 250 M starting next year.
.....Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals if they fail to meet "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by
HHS
.....Codification of the "economic substance doctrine" (Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely--legal tax deductions and
other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks "substance" and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed.
.....a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel called "black liquor"
.....The special tax deductions in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are
spent on clinical services (called Blue Cross/Blue Shield tax hike)
.....10 percent excise tax on mericans using indoor tanning salons.
.....Increase in additional tax on distributions from Health Savings Accounts and Archer Medical Savings Accounts not used for qualified medical expenses


Look forward to hearing from you


PS.....THIS is a partial list but will accept your "pick your post apart bit by bit " on these items and then we can move on

[Guest]

We were promised a "" pick your post apart bit by bit "...actually the poster said he COULD, not that he WOULD...but taking him at his word I am sure he will give it a fair shot...thought would add a few more costs to the taxpayers on this bill, HOWEVER, the good news is that it WILL CREATE JOBS, it appears...

"The Supreme Court's decision to uphold most of President Barack Obama's health care law will come home to roost for most taxpayers in about 2 1/2 years, when they'll have to start providing proof on their tax returns that they have health insurance.

That scenario puts the Internal Revenue Service at the center of the debate, renewing questions about whether the agency is capable of policing the health care decisions of millions of people in the United States while also collecting the taxes needed to run the federal government.

Under the law, the IRS will provide tax breaks and incentives to help pay for health insurance and impose penalties on some people who don't buy coverage and on some businesses that don't offer it to employees.

The changes will require new regulations, forms and publications, new computer programs and a big new outreach program to explain it all to taxpayers and tax professionals. Businesses that don't claim an exemption will have to prove they offer health insurance to employees.


"The health care law "includes the largest set of tax law changes in more than 20 years," according to the Treasury inspector general who oversees the IRS. The agency will have to hire thousands of workers to manage it, requiring significant budget increases that already are being targeted by congressional Republicans determined to dismantle the president's signature initiative.

This, I find very interesting that our lawmakers did not provide for stiffer rules....

"The law, however, severely limits the ability of the IRS to collect the penalties. There are no civil or criminal penalties for refusing to pay it and the IRS cannot seize bank accounts or dock wages to collect it. No interest accumulates for unpaid penalties.

So how can the IRS enforce the mandate? Scary letters and threats to withhold tax refunds."

"The IRS is expected to spend $881 million on the law from 2010 through 2013, hiring more than 2,700 new workers and upgrading its computer systems. But the IRS has not made public information about its spending plans in the following years, when the bulk of the health care law takes effect."

My Way News - The tax man cometh to police you on health care (http://apnews.myway.com//article/20120707/D9VS2E3O0.html)

I am convinced of two things...

First, if Romney wins this is such a confusing mess it cannot be undone as he would like to.

Second, we are not even close in this country to be able to afford this and it will be interesting to watch our wonderful congress handle how to take care of our money !!!

I am getting to the point where I do not think our "leaders" of ANY party even understand that they cannot continue down this road !!!

[Guest]

Can you elaborate?

[Guest]

I am the OP and my reason for opening this thread was not to digest ObamaCare, the huge tax burden it will place on citizens nor its constitutionality..

The reason I posted it was to illustrate that Obama continues to lie, misinform, exaggerate and cover his tracks with by denying he made such admissions. and finally to demonstrate that he is a flip flopper

[Guest]

I am the OP and my reason for opening this thread was not to digest ObamaCare, the huge tax burden it will place on citizens nor its constitutionality..

The reason I posted it was to illustrate that Obama continues to lie, misinform, exaggerate and cover his tracks with by denying he made such admissions. and finally to demonstrate that he is a flip flopper

Rubicon,

Don't sugarcoat it any longer. Just tell us how you really feel! chilout

[Guest]

Rubicon,

Don't sugarcoat it any longer. Just tell us how you really feel! chilout

You folks who make fun of, instead of addressing the lies of this President are doing nobody a favor.

The President will not even discuss this bill on the campaign..wonder why !!!!

Will not discuss his "signature" policy....the largest tax increase in a 1/4 of a century...the biggest upheaval to our tax policy in 20 years....a bill that required the SCOTUS to rule, and he wont discuss it...he runs from it.

[Guest]

I hear and read Obama the Devil, but for me and my family, We have not seen anything but improvement in ours lives since his election. Maybe I am not rich enough to feel the negative effects of the Obama administration. Now understand, I am a Romney fan and plan to vote for him if he picks an american for VP, but all the insults about Obama are non-productive and for the most part not true. I lean Republican as I am FAR more conservative when it comes to spending than Obama, but I do understand his intent is to help the poor and the elderly.

[Guest]

I hear and read Obama the Devil, but for me and my family, We have not seen anything but improvement in ours lives since his election. Maybe I am not rich enough to feel the negative effects of the Obama administration. Now understand, I am a Romney fan and plan to vote for him if he picks an american for VP, but all the insults about Obama are non-productive and for the most part not true. I lean Republican as I am FAR more conservative when it comes to spending than Obama, but I do understand his intent is to help the poor and the elderly.

The only one who has who ever referred to Obama as a devil on this forum is you, on your post.

36% of working age Americans are not working. Is this is the improvement you are talking about?

The True Unemployment Rate: 36% | Conservative News, Views & Books (http://www.humanevents.com/2012/02/20/the-true-unemployment-rate-36/)

[Guest]

I hear and read negattive comments about Obama, but for me and my family, We have not seen anything but improvement in ours lives since his election. Maybe I am not rich enough to feel the negative effects of the Obama administration. Now understand, I am a Romney fan and plan to vote for him if he picks an american for VP, but all the insults about Obama are non-productive and for the most part not true. I lean Republican as I am FAR more conservative when it comes to spending than Obama, but I do understand his intent is to help the poor and the elderly.

Again, I intend to vote for Romney for financial reasons, but feel in my heart, that Obama supports my christian beliefs best.

[Guest]

Personally, I feel tanning salons should be banned and not just have a 10% tax put on them.

Individule freedoms be damned. The libs have spoken. Next?

[Guest]

I could pick your post apart bit by bit but that takes too long. How about just on " 10% excise tax on tanning "?

This went into effect in 2010. Are you in favor of skin cancer? Tanning salons promote skin cancer. When we are on the golf courses or by the pools, we have enough sense to apply sunscreen. The tanning salons are for that all-over tan and no sunscreen is used.

Personally, I feel tanning salons should be banned and not just have a 10% tax put on them.

Buggy, I feel that you should pay a 10% excise tax and really learn how to play poker. I personally feel that poker should be banned and thank you for letting me give you a few lessons. I am available for more lessons, but will have to charge you a 10% excise tax from now on. :a040::a040::a040:

[Guest]

I hear and read negattive comments about Obama, but for me and my family, We have not seen anything but improvement in ours lives since his election. Maybe I am not rich enough to feel the negative effects of the Obama administration. Now understand, I am a Romney fan and plan to vote for him if he picks an american for VP, but all the insults about Obama are non-productive and for the most part not true. I lean Republican as I am FAR more conservative when it comes to spending than Obama, but I do understand his intent is to help the poor and the elderly.

Again, I intend to vote for Romney for financial reasons, but feel in my heart, that Obama supports my christian beliefs best.

I am very curious about why you feel Obama better represents Christian beliefs, or values.

I'm wondering about your plan to vote for Romney for "financial reasons" in contrast to your regret about it due to your "Christian beliefs".

It sounds fascinating.

[Guest]

Individule freedoms be damned. The libs have spoken. Next?

Wow, Darryl, I am the official spokesman for all liberals! Thanks for that honor.

I did not realize that you Tennessee boys liked to go to tanning salons.

[Guest]

I am very curious about why you feel Obama better represents Christian beliefs, or values.

I'm wondering about your plan to vote for Romney for "financial reasons" in contrast to your regret about it due to your "Christian beliefs".

It sounds fascinating.

It is felt by some religions that Mormons are not Christians.

[Guest]

Buggy, I feel that you should pay a 10% excise tax and really learn how to play poker. I personally feel that poker should be banned and thank you for letting me give you a few lessons. I am available for more lessons, but will have to charge you a 10% excise tax from now on. :a040::a040::a040:

That is pretty funny, Figmo. The poker table is full for the next few weeks but everyone enjoyed having you there so next time we need a sub, you will be invited.

In the meantime, you can go to the local tanning salon, strip down to your skivvies, and get an all-over tan for your next Tea Party meeting! :boxing2:

[Guest]

I did not realize that you Tennessee boys liked to go to tanning salons.

Actually they are quite popular here in the south but I've never been to one. But as usual you completely miss the point and deflect to a somewhat stupid nonsensical statement that has no real bearing.

But yes, in general libs want peoples lives controlled by the government as your statement makes clear. Don't like it? Ban it or tax it. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness apparently holds no meaning for liberals.

You made statements about tanning salons and you feel they should be banned.

Do you feel that way about any activity that could cause harm to ones self or just the one's government decides to go after this week or next?

Funny how you're so concerned about people in tanning salons but not so much about unborn babies.

[Guest]

It is felt by some religions that Mormons are not Christians.

OK, you got in your anti-Romney religiously biased dig. (OH!!; I didn't mean I thought so)

I wasn't asking you this question anyway.

[Guest]

OK, you got in your anti-Romney religiously biased dig. (OH!!; I didn't mean I thought so)

I wasn't asking you this question anyway.

RichieLion, this attached link may be interesting to you and show you that some religions do not consider Mormons to be Christians.

Catholics and Mormons: a shotgun wedding | National Catholic Reporter (http://ncronline.org/blogs/young-voices/catholics-and-mormons-shotgun-wedding)

What Is Mormonism? A Baptist Answer - TIME (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1675308,00.html)

[Guest]

It is felt by some religions that Mormons are not Christians.

buggyone: you are on a cantankerous roll again. I have been watching you and DaleMN and it has occured to me that you both seem to be contrary just to be contrary and having fun dong it. I am hoping that's the truth of it because I hate to have to initiate a deprogramming for you and DaleMN;)

Anyway I can't help but notice that you seem to be "profiling" Mormons. Isn't it liberals that accused the Repbulicans of wrongdoing by favoring profiling when it comes to immigration?

Just remember Obama continues to break his promises,is a major artful dodger and continues to use people and organizations and then discards them when he is finished. with friends like that one certainly doesn't need enemies

[Guest]

buggyone: you are on a cantankerous roll again. I have been watching you and DaleMN and it has occured to me that you both seem to be contrary just to be contrary and having fun dong it. I am hoping that's the truth of it because I hate to have to initiate a deprogramming for you and DaleMN;)

Anyway I can't help but notice that you seem to be "profiling" Mormons. Isn't it liberals that accused the Repbulicans of wrongdoing by favoring profiling when it comes to immigration?

Just remember Obama continues to break his promises,is a major artful dodger and continues to use people and organizations and then discards them when he is finished. with friends like that one certainly doesn't need enemies

I do not understand what you mean by I am "profiling" Mormons. I was responding to RichieLion's question asking why a poster thought Obama had better Christian values or beliefs. My religion does not consider Mormons to be Christians due to their belief that the Holy Trinity exists as three separate entities as well as several other differences.

Do you and your religion consider Mormons to be Christians?

[Guest]

You folks who make fun of, instead of addressing the lies of this President are doing nobody a favor.

The President will not even discuss this bill on the campaign..wonder why !!!!

Will not discuss his "signature" policy....the largest tax increase in a 1/4 of a century...the biggest upheaval to our tax policy in 20 years....a bill that required the SCOTUS to rule, and he wont discuss it...he runs from it.






It is NOT a bill. It was passed by the US Congress, signed into law by The President, and upheld by The US Supreme Court. It is NOT a bill - it is the law of the land.

PERIOD.

[Guest]

It is NOT a bill. It was passed by the US Congress, signed into law by The President, and upheld by The US Supreme Court. It is NOT a bill - it is the law of the land.

PERIOD.

Coralway: 74% of small businesses say "this law of the land: is unaffordable and will prevent them from providing jos PERIOD.

do not understand what you mean by I am "profiling" Mormons. I was responding to RichieLion's question asking why a poster thought Obama had better Christian values or beliefs. My religion does not consider Mormons to be Christians due to their belief that the Holy Trinity exists as three separate entities as well as several other differences.

Do you and your religion consider Mormons to be Christians?

buggyone: I knelt down in front of my sensei and asked oh great master are Mormons Christians? And my sensei rose from his chair and said "grasshopper"
you must be one of those unlightened Republicans...turn in your orange belt your done.

Well it was my fault because apparently I misunderstood your quote to richielion. scusa.

[Guest]

I do not understand what you mean by I am "profiling" Mormons. I was responding to RichieLion's question asking why a poster thought Obama had better Christian values or beliefs. My religion does not consider Mormons to be Christians due to their belief that the Holy Trinity exists as three separate entities as well as several other differences.

Do you and your religion consider Mormons to be Christians?

buggyone see my post #30. apparently your quote did not highlight and i don't know why but i addressed yours above.

[Guest]

I love statements of defense of Obama care referring to it as the "law of the land".

What should we consider the immigration laws of this land?

Or can we legitimately view the words "law of the land" should be accompanied by a footnote stating ....as long as we choose to enforce it or as is the case to often...not enforce it.

Current politics and politicians have demonstrated the law of the land and the law doesn't really matter. They are nothing more than legal terms.

This country is becoming so permissive non enforcement is a daily practice and expectation.

The continuous watering down and weakening of the American fabric. Disgusting.

btk

[Guest]

I love statements of defense of Obama care referring to it as the "law of the land".

What should we consider the immigration laws of this land?

Or can we legitimately view the words "law of the land" should be accompanied by a footnote stating ....as long as we choose to enforce it or as is the case to often...not enforce it.

Current politics and politicians have demonstrated the law of the land and the law doesn't really matter. They are nothing more than legal terms.

This country is becoming so permissive non enforcement is a daily practice and expectation.

The continuous watering down and weakening of the American fabric. Disgusting.

btk




ACA is law of the land.

Roe v Wade is law of the land.

The fact you consider it disgusting means nothing.

[Guest]

I love statements of defense of Obama care referring to it as the "law of the land".

What should we consider the immigration laws of this land?

Or can we legitimately view the words "law of the land" should be accompanied by a footnote stating ....as long as we choose to enforce it or as is the case to often...not enforce it.

Current politics and politicians have demonstrated the law of the land and the law doesn't really matter. They are nothing more than legal terms.

This country is becoming so permissive non enforcement is a daily practice and expectation.

The continuous watering down and weakening of the American fabric. Disgusting.

btk

And this would include all the GOP governors who say they will not set up the medical exchanges in their states, allowing the federal government to do it for them. They also will not expand medicaid, which they are allowed to do under the Supreme Court ruling, making sure that hospitals and doctors must continue treating the poor for free and passing the costs on to everybody else, while turning down tens of billions of dollars in federal money which will then go to other states.

[Guest]

And this would include all the GOP governors who say they will not set up the medical exchanges in their states, allowing the federal government to do it for them. They also will not expand medicaid, which they are allowed to do under the Supreme Court ruling, making sure that hospitals and doctors must continue treating the poor for free and passing the costs on to everybody else, while turning down tens of billions of dollars in federal money which will then go to other states.

Why would any state pay for something that they did not ask for, did not want, and cannot afford ?

You make it sound like these people are unfeeling.....that is POLITICS you are playing. This was not asked for and actually not even liked by half the people in the country and now they are telling the states to raise their taxes or whatever they have to do to pay for this stuff.

This is a very bad move for any state looking to attract jobs.

Instead of doing the correct thing ie reworking medicaid which doctors hate and are running from, they institute this thing.