Tea Party speakers last night

[Guest]

If you missed it, that's unfortunate for you. The ones who attend are three steps ahead of you in knowing what is coming. THREE Doctors from the Villages were our speakers!! I won't mention what practice.

Just a couple notes. Don't want to explain to those who don't care. You can deal with it after you vote it in.

However for those that are concerned and realize we have a Socialist in the White house, Seniors will be HIT BIG!!! You of course won't be able to keep your health plan as Obama promised. That was just another Lie. Most of us know that though. Medicare premiums will skyrocket starting out at 96.00 a month to 110.00 a month to 249.00 a month and on and on..... Doctors are leaving practices and will be going out of business. You will wait for surgeries. 6 months minimum and NOT for the Doctor of your choice but whoever you get. Probably the third world doctors will move right in because our doctors will all leave. It does not pay for them to practice medicine. You will be in line behind others (those with the hands out that never worked a day in their life) Obama will APPOINT the panel to decide if your entitled to receive any treatment, surgery etc... YES I said APPOINT - no we won't ELECT!!! This health care isn't about affordable health care - it's about ideology - the crown jewel of socialism. This election isn't about parties - it's about principles!! I have nothing further to say as for those who want to learn the truth as we did last night (right from the HORSES mouth) get out and start attending when these special speakers come in. As one friend of mine said to me last week after I finally got him down to a meeting to hear the woman who blew the whistle on Acorn. I cannot believe I fell into the liberalism trap. I see now what you have been trying to tell me all along after hearing this woman come out and risk her life to tell the "truth" I won't be missing another speaker and I thank you for helping me make an "informed decision" come November.

[Guest]

Gosh I think I might as well just curl up and die! :D

[Guest]

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Why don't you and your tea party group read the Medicare Act of 1965 at your next meeting. You will learn that there can be no increase in Medicare Part B unless there is an increase in Social Security COLA for that year. You will also learn that the Social Security COLA increase is related to the consumer price index. To the best of my knowledge, there is no plan by congress to change this law. BTW Medicare Part B increased to $99.60 from $96.40 on January 1, 2012 because of a COLA to Social Security.

[Guest]

Since no one seems to know what is all contained in the ACA, that law could have been changed. So before making a general statement like that above, someone needs to read the complete law and find out if that portion of the Med Part B was changed.

I don't know, as the way the ACA is written, it seems that no one really knows what it is or what it does.

[Guest]

How can I be sure to come out and hear these 'special speakers" who are THREE doctors in the Villages if you seem to feel that their views are going to be so controversial that you must protect their identity. Sometimes doctors are not the best authorities on politics nor on interpretation of the law. The AMA vigorously opposed Medicare as did the GOP. Don't hear many doctors now asking to have Medicare rescinded. So did these doctors tell you to where they are going to emigrate to practice medicine after the ACA takes effect? Maybe Canada? Maybe England?

Not sure how seniors are going to be hit big. The only proposal I have seen to radically change Medicare is the Ryan plan where you will get a credit from the government and go buy whatever policy that credit allows you to purchase which the government then sends to the insurance company. This credit can be no more than the cost of Medicare or second lowest cost of any insurance company in the market, that's what coverage you get if any with your pre-existing conditions... oh I forgot, Obamacare makes it so the insurance company can't reject you for pre-existing conditions, but they can charge you more. And over time the value of that government check will buy less and less insurance as it is tied to the CPI not to the medical inflation rate.

[Guest]

If you missed it, that's unfortunate for you. The ones who attend are three steps ahead of you in knowing what is coming. THREE Doctors from the Villages were our speakers!! I won't mention what practice.

Just a couple notes. Don't want to explain to those who don't care. You can deal with it after you vote it in.

However for those that are concerned and realize we have a Socialist in the White house, Seniors will be HIT BIG!!! You of course won't be able to keep your health plan as Obama promised. That was just another Lie. Most of us know that though. Medicare premiums will skyrocket starting out at 96.00 a month to 110.00 a month to 249.00 a month and on and on..... Doctors are leaving practices and will be going out of business. You will wait for surgeries. 6 months minimum and NOT for the Doctor of your choice but whoever you get. Probably the third world doctors will move right in because our doctors will all leave. It does not pay for them to practice medicine. You will be in line behind others (those with the hands out that never worked a day in their life) Obama will APPOINT the panel to decide if your entitled to receive any treatment, surgery etc... YES I said APPOINT - no we won't ELECT!!! This health care isn't about affordable health care - it's about ideology - the crown jewel of socialism. This election isn't about parties - it's about principles!! I have nothing further to say as for those who want to learn the truth as we did last night (right from the HORSES mouth) get out and start attending when these special speakers come in. As one friend of mine said to me last week after I finally got him down to a meeting to hear the woman who blew the whistle on Acorn. I cannot believe I fell into the liberalism trap. I see now what you have been trying to tell me all along after hearing this woman come out and risk her life to tell the "truth" I won't be missing another speaker and I thank you for helping me make an "informed decision" come November.

Well that does it for me! Three anonymous doctors in unknown specialties have been able to decipher 2700 pages of the AHCA and report that armageddon in approaching. Everyone knows that three doctors represent a majority of all physicians, and certainly could not have a right wing agenda. Without a doubt they tell the "truth", to the exclusion of all others.

[Guest]

Well that does it for me! Three anonymous doctors in unknown specialties have been able to decipher 2700 pages of the AHCA and report that armageddon in approaching. Everyone knows that three doctors represent a majority of all physicians, and certainly could not have a right wing agenda. Without a doubt they tell the "truth", to the exclusion of all others.

Well, I am not going to go too deep on this...I have posted a thread on how this is "supposed" to be paid for but nobody wants to discuss HOW we pay for it, but in my research I did find out......that the 2700 pages have in fact been read by many many in the last few years (not saying these particular doctors have done so) BUT IF you read the proposed HOW TO PAY FOR IT....then why do you not criticize those who VOTED FOR IT without reading and they admit that ?

[Guest]

i was not at the meeting but from other sources i understand that the big cost hike will come from our supplement or replacement policies premiums...for example, i have secure horizons by united healthcare which actually replaces my medicare...the govt gives my medicare payment to them, plus other funds, to administer my health services. my payment for this is currently zero. however, ACA calls for the govt to cut spending to these insurance companies affective oct 2012, thereby passing the cost on to me! HOWEVER, since that is prior to the election, the govt has just happened to fund an 8 billion dollar "project" to study these programs which will provide them money not to raise our costs until jan 2013, well AFTER the election...this project has been criticized by other govt agencies but as far as i know it is going through. i suggest everyone call their supplement providers and ask if a rate hike will go into effect in jan due to ACA.
i think this is the least of the problems with this bill....the long term negative effect on our care concerns me even more.

[Guest]

These raises are false:

snopes.com: A Message from Blue Cross/Blue Shield (http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/medicare.asp)

[Guest]

The information supplied by three doctors was most likely gleaned for their professional organizations individual periodicals subscribed to, etc. Medical organizations no doubt exist for the same reasons as other professional and business organization, one being education as to new techniques, medical /administratively, political bills pending that have a material affect on their profession, etc.

Medicare built a fee schedule long ago that limited payments to doctors and continued to get more restrictive as time passed. At about the same time commercial health care followed suit and implemented cost containment features in their policies. Given the reduction in payment fees and the double demands made by government and insurance regulations, doctors had already soured on their chosen profession and left exacerbated by medical students who changed career choices. SO IT WASN'T JUST THREE DOCOTRS OPINIONS BUT LIKELY THE CONSENUS OF THEIR PROFESSIONAL GROUPS, ETC

We now have ObamCare rolling like a locomotive out of control and I can see why doctors would continue to bale out.

I am sure there are readers here who have been caught up in the pre-admission nonsense. I can recall in one instance where I was suppose to be admitted to the hospital but that the insurance company was arguing with hospital/doctor about its need. so I just set my suitcase on the floor jumped into bed (being I was sick)and asked my wife to wake me when these institutions came to some agreement. It is clear that this example will no longer be the eception but the rule.

I considered myself fortunate for having a medicare supplement provided by my former employer. However I also pat myself on the back for having the foresight to ensure that such insurance was available to me when I retired by sticking with this company and foregoing the bigger dollar amounts tempting me from other companies. I mean life is all about trade offs. Now with ObamaCare i will no likely lose my supplement as will better than 30 million other Americans and that is a conservative estimate.

So her we go again, as evidence above, with the flippant remarks by some. It appears they have learned well to emulate their leader in chief.

I wish to thank the original poster for this information as I was unable to attend this meeting.

[Guest]

The information supplied by three doctors was most likely gleaned for their professional organizations individual periodicals subscribed to, etc. Medical organizations no doubt exist for the same reasons as other professional and business organization, one being education as to new techniques, medical /administratively, political bills pending that have a material affect on their profession, etc.

Medicare built a fee schedule long ago that limited payments to doctors and continued to get more restrictive as time passed. At about the same time commercial health care followed suit and implemented cost containment features in their policies. Given the reduction in payment fees and the double demands made by government and insurance regulations, doctors had already soured on their chosen profession and left exacerbated by medical students who changed career choices. SO IT WASN'T JUST THREE DOCOTRS OPINIONS BUT LIKELY THE CONSENUS OF THEIR PROFESSIONAL GROUPS, ETC

We now have ObamCare rolling like a locomotive out of control and I can see why doctors would continue to bale out.

I am sure there are readers here who have been caught up in the pre-admission nonsense. I can recall in one instance where I was suppose to be admitted to the hospital but that the insurance company was arguing with hospital/doctor about its need. so I just set my suitcase on the floor jumped into bed (being I was sick)and asked my wife to wake me when these institutions came to some agreement. It is clear that this example will no longer be the eception but the rule.

I considered myself fortunate for having a medicare supplement provided by my former employer. However I also pat myself on the back for having the foresight to ensure that such insurance was available to me when I retired by sticking with this company and foregoing the bigger dollar amounts tempting me from other companies. I mean life is all about trade offs. Now with ObamaCare i will no likely lose my supplement as will better than 30 million other Americans and that is a conservative estimate.

So her we go again, as evidence above, with the flippant remarks by some. It appears they have learned well to emulate their leader in chief.

I wish to thank the original poster for this information as I was unable to attend this meeting.

As I understand it from my own personal perspective, I probably will not be able to afford my medicaire supplement shortly. THOSE premiums are going to explode !

[Guest]

Rubicon says:
Now with ObamaCare i will no likely lose my supplement as will better than 30 million other Americans and that is a conservative estimate.

What makes you think that the ACA has any impact on a private contract that you have with your private former employer? Instead of posting "conservative" guesses, how about you call your former employer and ask, and post the reply, "Does the new health care law have any impact on my retirement benefits?"

Love how you can make up numbers. There are 40 million americans 65 or older per the 2010 census. And you think 30 million or more have a supplement provided by a private employer??

[Guest]

Rubicon opines:
SO IT WASN'T JUST THREE DOCOTRS OPINIONS BUT LIKELY THE CONSENUS OF THEIR PROFESSIONAL GROUPS, ETC

Well I don't know what professional groups are worthy of his ALL CAPS but here are the statements of every one of the primary care organizations, Pediatricians, Internists, Family Physicians,the AMA which is not just primary care, and Nurses. All of them have supported the affordable care act. Never let facts interfere with a well held opinion.

The American Academy of Family Physicians at http://www.familydocs.org/files/2010HealthCareReformandAAFP.pdf

The American Academy of Pediatrics at American Academy of Pediatrics Commends Supreme Court Decision to Uphold the Affordable Care Act (http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/American-Academy-of-Pediatrics-Commends-Supreme-Court-Decision-to-Uphold-the-Affordable-Care-Act.aspx)

The American Medical Association at http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/doc/washington/hsr-3590-passage-support.pdf

The American Nurses Association at ANA Rallies at U.S. Supreme Court in Support of Affordable Care Act (http://www.nursingworld.org/MainMenuCategories/Policy-Advocacy/HealthSystemReform/ANA-Supports-Affordable-Care-Act.html)

The American College of Physicians ( Internists) at http://www.acponline.org/advocacy/where_we_stand/policy/health_reform_individual.pdf

[Guest]

Rubicon says:
Now with ObamaCare i will no likely lose my supplement as will better than 30 million other Americans and that is a conservative estimate.

What makes you think that the ACA has any impact on a private contract that you have with your private former employer? Instead of posting "conservative" guesses, how about you call your former employer and ask, and post the reply, "Does the new health care law have any impact on my retirement benefits?"

Love how you can make up numbers. There are 40 million americans 65 or older per the 2010 census. And you think 30 million or more have a supplement provided by a private employer??

Ahhhh, facts! :BigApplause:

[Guest]

Rubicon opines:
SO IT WASN'T JUST THREE DOCOTRS OPINIONS BUT LIKELY THE CONSENUS OF THEIR PROFESSIONAL GROUPS, ETC

Well I don't know what professional groups are worthy of his ALL CAPS but here are the statements of every one of the primary care organizations, Pediatricians, Internists, Family Physicians,the AMA which is not just primary care, and Nurses. All of them have supported the affordable care act. Never let facts interfere with a well held opinion.

The American Academy of Family Physicians at http://www.familydocs.org/files/2010HealthCareReformandAAFP.pdf

The American Academy of Pediatrics at American Academy of Pediatrics Commends Supreme Court Decision to Uphold the Affordable Care Act (http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/American-Academy-of-Pediatrics-Commends-Supreme-Court-Decision-to-Uphold-the-Affordable-Care-Act.aspx)

The American Medical Association at http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/doc/washington/hsr-3590-passage-support.pdf

The American Nurses Association at ANA Rallies at U.S. Supreme Court in Support of Affordable Care Act (http://www.nursingworld.org/MainMenuCategories/Policy-Advocacy/HealthSystemReform/ANA-Supports-Affordable-Care-Act.html)

The American College of Physicians ( Internists) at http://www.acponline.org/advocacy/where_we_stand/policy/health_reform_individual.pdf

ahhh, more facts!!! :BigApplause:

[Guest]

As I understand it from my own personal perspective, I probably will not be able to afford my medicaire supplement shortly. THOSE premiums are going to explode !

It's a EUC !!


(Enormous Unsupported Conclusion)

[Guest]

To the first reply post You might as well

[Guest]

To the first reply post You might as well

That clears things up for me.

[Guest]

It's a EUC !!


(Enormous Unsupported Conclusion)

Not sure about you as you NEVER respond when I give you facts, but you sure do when you suppose things, and rank right up there with sarcasm but no facts....I have spoken to my insurer..want his number ?....and I got his best guess based on what is happening. I also know that rates in general will leap...there is no cost ceiling on a product we have to buy !

[Guest]

"Most Americans saw their insurance bills jump this year, according to a new study from the Kaiser Family Foundation. The average employer-based premium for a family increased a startling 9% in 2011. Over the next decade, rates are expected to double.

The Kaiser report is only the latest piece of research to indicate that ObamaCare isn’t driving down health care costs, as its proponents promised, but is instead accelerating their rise."

Higher Health Insurance Premiums This Year? Blame ObamaCare - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2011/10/10/higher-health-insurance-premiums-this-year-blame-obamacare/)

"America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP), the industry’s chief lobbying group, issued a statement following the ruling, stressing the importance of “secure, affordable coverage choices,” but saying that “major provisions, such as the premium tax, will have unintended consequences of raising costs and disrupting coverage unless they are addressed.” AHIP CEO Karen Ignagni suggested that due to the inflated costs, “it’s time for people to roll up their sleeves and look very carefully at those provisions.”

Supreme Court Ruling on ObamaCare to Boost Insurance Premiums (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/health-care/item/11907-supreme-court-ruling-on-obamacare-to-boost-insurance-premiums)

[Guest]

I have posted before that my wife works in Medical Mgt.and has been in meetings all the time of whats coming down the pike.But those with blinders on just don,t want to believe a word of it.We were told obama care cost 10yrs out 800 billion now over 2 .3 trillion and those C B O figures more then triple.

[Guest]

i was not at the meeting but from other sources i understand that the big cost hike will come from our supplement or replacement policies premiums...for example, i have secure horizons by united healthcare which actually replaces my medicare...the govt gives my medicare payment to them, plus other funds, to administer my health services. my payment for this is currently zero. however, ACA calls for the govt to cut spending to these insurance companies affective oct 2012, thereby passing the cost on to me! HOWEVER, since that is prior to the election, the govt has just happened to fund an 8 billion dollar "project" to study these programs which will provide them money not to raise our costs until jan 2013, well AFTER the election...this project has been criticized by other govt agencies but as far as i know it is going through. i suggest everyone call their supplement providers and ask if a rate hike will go into effect in jan due to ACA.
i think this is the least of the problems with this bill....the long term negative effect on our care concerns me even more.
I don't know all that's in the ACA, I haven't read it.

What I do know is this...
If ACA is repealed, about 30-40 million Americans will return to being uninsured. They will still get healthcare, of course, at hospital emergency rooms. Because the hospitals will have no source of payment for their services, they'll pass them on thru increased fees for service to those who are insured. The insurance companies will pay these claims and pass their increased costs on in the form of increased premiums.

The Medicaid provisions of ACA will be lost. Tens of millions of indigent citizens, mostly seniors, will have no health insurance or source of payment for either care or housing. The effect on insurance premiums will be the same, for the same reasons, as the above example.

The whole system of insurance exchanges will be scrapped, leaving the current non-competitive situation where one company typically dominates insurance issued in each state. There will continue to be little competitive pressure to rein in premium increases.
There are probably lots of other improvements contained in the bill that will also be lost. There are also many significant improvements needed, improvements that Congress should be working on now. Like the inclusion of tort reform provisions...oh, forgive me, I forgot about the trial lawyers' lobby.

In summary, what I do know is that if people are concerned about skyrocketing premiums on their healthcare policies, the last thing they should desire is the repeal of ObamaCare without a well-thought out alternative.

[Guest]

All this incomprehensible law and public outcry and BLIND SUPPORT for it is exactly the type of chaos the Statists want.

With everyone in chaos and running scared, this is the perfect storm for people to not read and study and press their elected politicians...

...and to be gullible enough to believe it when the Statists/Leftists tell us, "We'll take care of you. Free housing, free healthcare, free transportation, free DAYCARE (indoctrinate them starting at age 4 weeks), free food..." (Never mind the take-home paycheck of $100 per month because..hey...with everything "free", who needs a bigger paycheck from the government?)

Can you say USSR? Cuba? (Never mind the KGB and secret police necessary to keep the regime in power because the hungry people get restless and protest and try to flee and defect.)

[Guest]

I don't know all that's in the ACA, I haven't read it.

What I do know is this...
If ACA is repealed, about 30-40 million Americans will return to being uninsured. They will still get healthcare, of course, at hospital emergency rooms. Because the hospitals will have no source of payment for their services, they'll pass them on thru increased fees for service to those who are insured. The insurance companies will pay these claims and pass their increased costs on in the form of increased premiums.

The Medicaid provisions of ACA will be lost. Tens of millions of indigent citizens, mostly seniors, will have no health insurance or source of payment for either care or housing. The effect on insurance premiums will be the same, for the same reasons, as the above example.

The whole system of insurance exchanges will be scrapped, leaving the current non-competitive situation where one company typically dominates insurance issued in each state. There will continue to be little competitive pressure to rein in premium increases.
There are probably lots of other improvements contained in the bill that will also be lost. There are also many significant improvements needed, improvements that Congress should be working on now. Like the inclusion of tort reform provisions...oh, forgive me, I forgot about the trial lawyers' lobby.

In summary, what I do know is that if people are concerned about skyrocketing premiums on their healthcare policies, the last thing they should desire is the repeal of ObamaCare without a well-thought out alternative.

I am not sure if this is a post lauding this law and all its economic trickery or a criticism of Romney for wanting to fix it.

You are right...insurance costs WILL skyrocket...and again...not sure if you are angry at the guy who made this disaster happen or the guy who wants to fix it.

I understand reality but there are folks on this forum who think this is paid and done for and never to be heard from again. Just enjoy the good stuff and they never ever mention how it might be paid for. THAT to me is a mystery how someone can be concerned about the deficit and spending and not even mention this law in the same breath. I think, not sure, it is about 20% of our economy !

[Guest]

I find it really laughable that Hulababy said that 3rd World doctors will be moving in to the spaces left by our current doctors. Take a look at the names of the doctors in The Villages right now. A very large percentage of them are Indian, Pakistani or other 3rd World countries. YOU ARE GOING TO THEM RIGHT NOW - AND YOU THINK THEIR CARE IS EXCELLENT.

This bull hockey about all the American doctors leaving is just something to spread in your flower garden - or put in a cup of tea.

[Guest]

"Most Americans saw their insurance bills jump this year, according to a new study from the Kaiser Family Foundation. The average employer-based premium for a family increased a startling 9% in 2011. Over the next decade, rates are expected to double.

The Kaiser report is only the latest piece of research to indicate that ObamaCare isn’t driving down health care costs, as its proponents promised, but is instead accelerating their rise."

Higher Health Insurance Premiums This Year? Blame ObamaCare - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2011/10/10/higher-health-insurance-premiums-this-year-blame-obamacare/)

This article in Forbes was written by an outside contributer from the Pacific Research Institute which describes itself as :
"The Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy promotes the principles of individual freedom and personal responsibility. The Institute believes these principles are best encouraged through policies that emphasize a free economy, private initiative, and limited government."

Books offered for sale on its home page include "The top 10 ways to dismantle and replace Obamacare", "The truth about Obamacare", and "Obama's Education Takeover". The author of those first two books is the same author as the Forbes article. Her well established vehement opposition to the ACA makes her interpretation that the increases in health insurance must be due to the ACA highly suspect.


"America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP), the industry’s chief lobbying group, issued a statement following the ruling, stressing the importance of “secure, affordable coverage choices,” but saying that “major provisions, such as the premium tax, will have unintended consequences of raising costs and disrupting coverage unless they are addressed.” AHIP CEO Karen Ignagni suggested that due to the inflated costs, “it’s time for people to roll up their sleeves and look very carefully at those provisions.”

Supreme Court Ruling on ObamaCare to Boost Insurance Premiums (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/health-care/item/11907-supreme-court-ruling-on-obamacare-to-boost-insurance-premiums)

And this evidence is from the website thenewamerican.com ....That website is the published by the John Birch Society. Look carefully at the words used by Ms Ignagni in her comment on the AHIP website after the Supreme Court decision. She says that the provisions "will have" she does not say "already have" A big difference from what you are suggesting, that the ACA is responsible for premium increases. I am not certain that asking the spokesperson for the insurance industry to place blame for rate increases is a good source for finger pointing. The last place they would point is the profit motive of the insurance industry trying to lock in profits before the provisions limiting their ability to overcharge the consumer kick in.

Between 1999 and 2009 the cost of a family insurance policy increased 131% while inflation was only 28%. The ACA has not lowered costs and undoubtedly a small amount of the increase is due to the provisions already in effect requiring better preventive care, coverage for young adults, and removing the lifetime caps are being passed on the the consumer. Once the ACA is fully implemented we can revisit the question. If you get more healthy people to buy insurance who are likely to be low utilizers of care, would you expect the cost of that insurance to go down compared to what it otherwise would have done?

[Guest]

This article in Forbes was written by an outside contributer from the Pacific Research Institute which describes itself as :
"The Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy promotes the principles of individual freedom and personal responsibility. The Institute believes these principles are best encouraged through policies that emphasize a free economy, private initiative, and limited government."

Books offered for sale on its home page include "The top 10 ways to dismantle and replace Obamacare", "The truth about Obamacare", and "Obama's Education Takeover". The author of those first two books is the same author as the Forbes article. Her well established vehement opposition to the ACA makes her interpretation that the increases in health insurance must be due to the ACA highly suspect.




And this evidence is from the website thenewamerican.com ....That website is the published by the John Birch Society. Look carefully at the words used by Ms Ignagni in her comment on the AHIP website after the Supreme Court decision. She says that the provisions "will have" she does not say "already have" A big difference from what you are suggesting, that the ACA is responsible for premium increases. I am not certain that asking the spokesperson for the insurance industry to place blame for rate increases is a good source for finger pointing. The last place they would point is the profit motive of the insurance industry trying to lock in profits before the provisions limiting their ability to overcharge the consumer kick in.

Between 1999 and 2009 the cost of a family insurance policy increased 131% while inflation was only 28%. The ACA has not lowered costs and undoubtedly a small amount of the increase is due to the provisions already in effect requiring better preventive care, coverage for young adults, and removing the lifetime caps are being passed on the the consumer. Once the ACA is fully implemented we can revisit the question. If you get more healthy people to buy insurance who are likely to be low utilizers of care, would you expect the cost of that insurance to go down compared to what it otherwise would have done?


Thank you for the correction. I appreciate being told with validation I am wrong....at least on the links...they were bad.

I expect the cost to go up. First there is no cap and the amount of companies bailing out and the usage of the system that will come into play with the new law.

You seem to know the industry and thanks for your input. Costs do worry me a lot. One of the things that is supposed to pay for this is a substantial cut in medicaire, that is supposedly from cutting fraud. Since you do seem to know your stuff in this area...is this reasonable ? And if it is, what have we been waiting for ?

Thanks again for the in put

[Guest]

The ACA it is hoped will cut expenditures by the Federal government by several of its features. You are correct in mentioning some savings are to come by better fraud detection. The estimate is that this is only about 1% of the savings to be generated, at 4.9 billion of the 424 billion savings. This ability to detect fraud is one reason electronic records are being required. However, the data which the government is able to collect is not adequate to find fraud at this time.
The majority of the savings is anticipated to come from elimination of the overpayment to the Medicare advantage programs and adjustments in the payment schedules to providers other than physicians which together account for 350 billion in savings. The medicare advantage programs are paid an extra premium by the government with the expectation that their tighter controls would reduce costs. In fact these advantage programs are costing more per insured than traditional medicare and provide less choice of doctors and hospitals (it pays the providers less than traditional medicare) Guess who is pocketing that extra money and not saving the government anything? So the ACA levels the payment to the insurance company that offers the advantage program to that of basic medicare cost. If the carrier can be more efficient then it will make more money, if not, then it can choose whether to continue to offer its product as it now does or make adjustments. But Medicare advantage programs have been more expensive and not delivered better health outcomes than traditional medicare, so they are being phased out.

There are several online sources for looking at the numbers. Here is one from Oct 2010
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/issues/2010/10/pdf/medicare_aca_report.pdf

The often mentioned Congressional Budget Office report issued in the spring 2012 is here
CBO | CBO Releases Updated Estimates for the Insurance Coverage Provisions of the Affordable Care Act (http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43080)

Here is the money line from their most recent report
"CBO and JCT (Joint committee on taxation) have previously estimated that the ACA will, on net, reduce budget deficits over the 2012-2021 period; that estimate of the overall budgetary impact of the ACA has not been updated."

In other words, this program will SAVE the government money if it goes according to the non-partisan CBO's analysis. This does not mean we won't be spending a lot of money, just that with the ACA we are going to spend less than we would without it (and provide tens of millions of Americans coverage they otherwise would not have)

[Guest]

Not sure about you as you NEVER respond when I give you facts, but you sure do when you suppose things, and rank right up there with sarcasm but no facts....I have spoken to my insurer..want his number ?....and I got his best guess based on what is happening. I also know that rates in general will leap...there is no cost ceiling on a product we have to buy !

I do not make sarcastic comments flippantly. Especially in magenta, size 7.

But I just can't seem to get your objective attention. I'm the one who's been asking YOU for facts to support your wholesale dismissal of ACA. In our last back/forth, "Who's Going to Pay", you said in your final post post that you weren't prepared to present specific proof of which elements of ACA were flawed, and how you might suggest they be repaired.

So, I must admit I find it difficult not to respond to your continual conclusion that ACA is going to "explode" your premiums. Holy cow! Do you expect us to take the word of your INSURANCE man that ACA will send you to the poorhouse. It appears you haven't seen the half dozen or so times we've been referred to the Snopes debunking of the BC/BS study that said your medicare advantage plan was going to go to $247 a month in a couple of years. Look it up and send it to your insurance man.

I'm stopping here. It's silly to respond to EUCs.

[Guest]

The ACA it is hoped will cut expenditures by the Federal government by several of its features. You are correct in mentioning some savings are to come by better fraud detection. The estimate is that this is only about 1% of the savings to be generated, at 4.9 billion of the 424 billion savings. This ability to detect fraud is one reason electronic records are being required. However, the data which the government is able to collect is not adequate to find fraud at this time.
The majority of the savings is anticipated to come from elimination of the overpayment to the Medicare advantage programs and adjustments in the payment schedules to providers other than physicians which together account for 350 billion in savings. The medicare advantage programs are paid an extra premium by the government with the expectation that their tighter controls would reduce costs. In fact these advantage programs are costing more per insured than traditional medicare and provide less choice of doctors and hospitals (it pays the providers less than traditional medicare) Guess who is pocketing that extra money and not saving the government anything? So the ACA levels the payment to the insurance company that offers the advantage program to that of basic medicare cost. If the carrier can be more efficient then it will make more money, if not, then it can choose whether to continue to offer its product as it now does or make adjustments. But Medicare advantage programs have been more expensive and not delivered better health outcomes than traditional medicare, so they are being phased out.

There are several online sources for looking at the numbers. Here is one from Oct 2010
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/issues/2010/10/pdf/medicare_aca_report.pdf

The often mentioned Congressional Budget Office report issued in the spring 2012 is here
CBO | CBO Releases Updated Estimates for the Insurance Coverage Provisions of the Affordable Care Act (http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43080)

Here is the money line from their most recent report
"CBO and JCT (Joint committee on taxation) have previously estimated that the ACA will, on net, reduce budget deficits over the 2012-2021 period; that estimate of the overall budgetary impact of the ACA has not been updated."

In other words, this program will SAVE the government money if it goes according to the non-partisan CBO's analysis. This does not mean we won't be spending a lot of money, just that with the ACA we are going to spend less than we would without it (and provide tens of millions of Americans coverage they otherwise would not have)


Blueash,

Can't thank you enough for excellent contributions like these !!

[Guest]

The Tea Partiers will make any false claim to scare seniors into thinking that their doctors will get out of the system due to Affordable Care Act.

Sure, some doctors will retire. This happens every year since doctors get older like we do and also like to retire. There are young new doctors coming into the healthcare system each year, too. No one is going to have a hard time finding a doctor. There is even some government plan that will help new doctors pay part of their schooling if they agree to practice medicine in understaffed areas. I personally know of one who did this in a rural part of Iowa.

Look around The Villages. Scads of doctors of all specialties. Also, lots are from countries like India or Pakistan. No problem with those doctors. They all have lots of patients and get high recommendations just like the American doctors.

Shame on the Tea Party for trying to scare seniors.

[Guest]

The Tea Partiers will make any false claim to scare seniors into thinking that their doctors will get out of the system due to Affordable Care Act.

Sure, some doctors will retire. This happens every year since doctors get older like we do and also like to retire. There are young new doctors coming into the healthcare system each year, too. No one is going to have a hard time finding a doctor. There is even some government plan that will help new doctors pay part of their schooling if they agree to practice medicine in understaffed areas. I personally know of one who did this in a rural part of Iowa.

Look around The Villages. Scads of doctors of all specialties. Also, lots are from countries like India or Pakistan. No problem with those doctors. They all have lots of patients and get high recommendations just like the American doctors.

Shame on the Tea Party for trying to scare seniors.

I agree with this, though I don't really blame the members of the tea party, most of whom have no idea what is in the AHCA or how it will truly affect them. It is shameful that a few people with a political and sefish agenda spend millions of dollars and hours of airtime to convince and scare people who are already wary of government and particularly the President.

[Guest]

That's what the Tea Party is all about; playing on fear and believing in implausible conspiracies. It is surely not your forefather's tea party. :yuck:

[Guest]

Can't wait to see these same people running around with their vouchers, if Mitt Romney is elected, trying to buy health care and being denied coverage because they have pre-existing conditions and Romney repealed the ACA.

[Guest]

I deleted a completed response to support my earlier comments and then thought what the heck are you doing? what you are doing is getting caught up in that child's game of "Is So" Is Not".

I googled the affects of ObamaCare and there were so many links defending and rejecting ObamaCare that I thought it is no wonder there is so much confusion i guess nancy Pelosi had it right when she said "We do 't know what the bill says until after we pass it." Well we still don't know? For instance the CBO expects the loss of employer coverage to be 11 million, CMS Office iof the Actuary 14 million, The Lawin Group 17.2 million and American Action forum 35 million

What we do know is that the CBO raised ACA's projection for its 10 year implementation from 900 billion to 2.6 trillion. what we do know is that the government is notorious for missing projection. what we do know is that government ignores budgets because it has an inexhaustible source of money taxes and or the printing press. What we do know is that the day ObamaCare was decided by the Supreme Court hospital stocks went through the roof. Why not taxes are a guarantee making these stocks practically a life long annuity.

Sole practioners will give up individual practice and sign on to hospitals as explained in one of the google citations and some will just leave medicine

I understand that some on this thread have the opinion that those non-supporters rely on EUC's but this is one person in oppostion watched Obama throw every organization that supported his ambition to pass ObamaCare under the bus. They supported him not because it was good for the country but their pocketbooks..Big Pharma comes to mind and so does AARP because they knew ObamaCare meant that Medicare Advantage would no longer exist and they could move in to take its place.

It is the nature of business and hence people to adapt in order to survive. Taxpayers/medical patients both must ask themselves but how does this all affect me? At the risk of being once again accused of EUC's I'll just say I opine you decide.

[Guest]

I deleted a completed response to support my earlier comments and then thought what the heck are you doing? what you are doing is getting caught up in that child's game of "Is So" Is Not".

I googled the affects of ObamaCare and there were so many links defending and rejecting ObamaCare that I thought it is no wonder there is so much confusion i guess nancy Pelosi had it right when she said "We do 't know what the bill says until after we pass it." Well we still don't know? For instance the CBO expects the loss of employer coverage to be 11 million, CMS Office iof the Actuary 14 million, The Lawin Group 17.2 million and American Action forum 35 million

What we do know is that the CBO raised ACA's projection for its 10 year implementation from 900 billion to 2.6 trillion. what we do know is that the government is notorious for missing projection. what we do know is that government ignores budgets because it has an inexhaustible source of money taxes and or the printing press. What we do know is that the day ObamaCare was decided by the Supreme Court hospital stocks went through the roof. Why not taxes are a guarantee making these stocks practically a life long annuity.

Sole practioners will give up individual practice and sign on to hospitals as explained in one of the google citations and some will just leave medicine

I understand that some on this thread have the opinion that those non-supporters rely on EUC's but this is one person in oppostion watched Obama through every organization that supported his ambition to pass ObamaCare under the bus. They supported him not because it was good for the country but their pocketbooks..Big Pharma comes to mind and so does AARP because they knew ObamaCare meant that Medicare Advantage would no longer exist and they could move in to take its place.

It is the nature of business and hence people to adapt in order to survive. Taxpayers/medical patients both must ask themselves but how does this all affect me? At the risk of being once again accused of EUC's I'll just say I opine you decide.

Glad you decided to post it. I can't tell for sure, but it sounds like you are seriously looking at the elements of ACA, and realize that EUCs are simply emotional responses, hardly a satisfactory way of building a case of yea or nay.

But a few comments in this thoughtful post still make it clear how much you despise President Obama and how that colors your position on whether or not he has done some good things.

Maybe you might try what I'm doing. Think of voting for Obama like I'm thinking about voting for Romney. Forget your biases. Look for positive reasons to support the candidate. There's still four months before we have to decide.

[Guest]

Glad you decided to post it. I can't tell for sure, but it sounds like you are seriously looking at the elements of ACA, and realize that EUCs are simply emotional responses, hardly a satisfactory way of building a case of yea or nay.

But a few comments in this thoughtful post still make it clear how much you despise President Obama and how that colors your position on whether or not he has done some good things.

Maybe you might try what I'm doing. Think of voting for Obama like I'm thinking about voting for Romney. Forget your biases. Look for positive reasons to support the candidate. There's still four months before we have to decide.

What outstanding advice! Very wise :beer3:

[Guest]

Glad you decided to post it. I can't tell for sure, but it sounds like you are seriously looking at the elements of ACA, and realize that EUCs are simply emotional responses, hardly a satisfactory way of building a case of yea or nay.

But a few comments in this thoughtful post still make it clear how much you despise President Obama and how that colors your position on whether or not he has done some good things.

Maybe you might try what I'm doing. Think of voting for Obama like I'm thinking about voting for Romney. Forget your biases. Look for positive reasons to support the candidate. There's still four months before we have to decide.

ijustluvit: I congratulate your optimistic view. However givenObama's profile and given his ideology which he made clear before he was elected it was a certainty that he did not represent what I believe a president should be.
so that there is no misunderstanding. I would vote for a Thomas sowell, colin Powell, Condi Rice in a New York second. But an Obama, Pelosi, Biden Reid, Schummer never.

[Guest]

ijustluvit: I congratulate your optimistic view. However givenObama's profile and given his ideology which he made clear before he was elected it was a certainty that he did not represent what I believe a president should be.
so that there is no misunderstanding. I would vote for a Thomas sowell, colin Powell, Condi Rice in a New York second. But an Obama, Pelosi, Biden Reid, Schummer never.

May I ask though, might you vote for the moderate Romney? If so, will you do it as a reaction to your strong opposition to Obama, or because you think Romney embraces your ideology? Thanks.