Freedom of Speech in Political

[Guest]

Just wondering how many of you feel that the Political Board should be rough n tumble, bare knuckle politics? Do you think that Admin/Moderators should let us have at it or censor us?

[Guest]

Just wondering how many of you feel that the Political Board should be rough n tumble, bare knuckle politics? Do you think that Admin/Moderators should let us have at it or censor us?

They do a good job of getting rid of messages that are just personal attacks. I have very little use for the kind of argument that attacks the poster rather than the post.

Along the same lines, it is very poor logic and etiquette to just make it about the person expressing the opinion. Seems very juvenile too to make the messenger pay for his/her opinions.

I went through 5 years of personal attacks because of the right of free speech on Findlaw's many message boards from 2000-2005. I suppose many people found all the attacks on me very funny; but they did very little for my efforts in making an argument based on good evidence. Lawyers object to making the person the target rather than the evidence itself.

I also believe that it is easier to bully by just attacking the person's character or whatever rather than what the poster is writing about in their opinions.

[Guest]

Just wondering how many of you feel that the Political Board should be rough n tumble, bare knuckle politics? Do you think that Admin/Moderators should let us have at it or censor us?

I feel the current Admin/Monitors are doing a great job. The prior two admin/monitors were so biased in there own political opinion that it made this site a joke. Also, there are 5 or 6 folks on this board that would go insult crazy if unattended by Admin. I vote for Admin to protect site members from site members and censor even more than they do currently. There is nothing wrong with differing opinions, but some folks insult you for every post that they disagree with discouraging any debate and making most treads verbally violent arguments.

[Guest]

:crap2::pray::beer3:They do a good job of getting rid of messages that are just personal attacks. I have very little use for the kind of argument that attacks the poster rather than the post.

It is very poor logic and etiquette to just make it about the person expressing the opinion. Seems very juvenile too to make the messenger pay for his/her opinions.

:bigbow:
:clap2:
:coolsmiley:
:a040:
:MOJE_whot:
:BigApplause:

[Guest]

Just wondering how many of you feel that the Political Board should be rough n tumble, bare knuckle politics? Do you think that Admin/Moderators should let us have at it or censor us?

The problem with your suggestion is that what some might believe is "bare knuckles poitics" others may view as judgmental, rude, personal attacks and even disturbing.

Politics is personal because it is the sum total of what a person believes and what he represents himself to be and as such some folks just can't handle the truth because it conflicts with their beliefs.

In short I don't like to be monitored edited or deleted and of the only two times it was done I did not view my remarks as personal nor do I now. However I error on the side of caution and TOTV's policy of Admin/Moderators discretionarydeletion policy

[Guest]

the administrators are doing a great job keeping the forum and some of the purposely loose cannons sensible.

btk

[Guest]

the administrators are doing a great job keeping the forum and some of the purposely loose cannons sensible.

btk



:agree:

[Guest]

So far I'm surprised so many of you want the protection of Mod.

[Guest]

So far I'm surprised so many of you want the protection of Mod.

I know what can happen when things go chaotic with no rules being applied. The sysop --system operator-- on Findlaw's message board let anyone say anything and you could register with any name with no e-mail required. So, I had enemies on this Findlaw service pretending to be me and attacking other posters using my name or something like it. The Wild Wild West had more rules. Kind of fun at times unless you become the target of a lot of lawyers/law students/would be lawyers with a lot of free time on their hands.

Etiquette on many message boards has changed quite a bit since the days with little or no rules from 2000 through 2005.

[Guest]

I know what can happen when things go chaotic with no rules being applied. The sysop --system operator-- on Findlaw's message board let anyone say anything and you could register with any name with no e-mail required. So, I had enemies on this Findlaw service pretending to be me and attacking other posters using my name or something like it. The Wild Wild West had more rules. Kind of fun at times unless you become the target of a lot of lawyers/law students/would be lawyers with a lot of free time on their hands.

Etiquette on many message boards has changed quite a bit since the days with little or no rules from 2000 through 2005.

I think the sign up requirements are fine. Lately I noticed a tad too much "guidance" from Big Bro.

[Guest]

I think the sign up requirements are fine. Lately I noticed a tad too much "guidance" from Big Bro.

I would rather have more rules than less. Just as long as I know what the rules actually are. I do not mind my posts occassionally being deleted.

[Guest]

So far I'm surprised so many of you want the protection of Mod.

Posh: I learned long ago while serving in the Navy that when your asked to do something "volunteer":D

[Guest]

Who cares....nothing anyone says changes anyone's mind any way. :icon_wink:

[Guest]

Who cares....nothing anyone says changes anyone's mind any way. :icon_wink:

But ya have to hear it, and if Big Bro say no, there ya go. :icon_wink:

[Guest]

I think that by purposely subscribing and signing onto the political board here, you're saying "If I couldn't take the heat, I'd be staying out of the kitchen", and you're agreeing to get rotten tomatoes and lots of Alinsky-method ridicule thrown at you.

That said, I think the monitoring and deletions the moderators do are okay. Some people do attack a person so viciously that they are truly cyber-bullying....and driving away meeker people who would like to be heard.

[Guest]

I think that by purposely subscribing and signing onto the political board here, you're saying "If I couldn't take the heat, I'd be staying out of the kitchen", and you're agreeing to get rotten tomatoes and lots of Alinsky-method ridicule thrown at you.

That said, I think the monitoring and deletions the moderators do are okay. Some people do attack a person so viciously that they are truly cyber-bullying....and driving away meeker people who would like to be heard.

I'd like to invite ya'll to some Virginia Shad Planking or Political BBQ. No Big Brother there. The meek doesn't gain in politics.

[Guest]

I feel the current Admin/Monitors are doing a great job. The prior two admin/monitors were so biased in there own political opinion that it made this site a joke. Also, there are 5 or 6 folks on this board that would go insult crazy if unattended by Admin. I vote for Admin to protect site members from site members and censor even more than they do currently. There is nothing wrong with differing opinions, but some folks insult you for every post that they disagree with discouraging any debate and making most treads verbally violent arguments.

I don't think the prior administrators were biased; they just didn't put up with shenanigans. They gave little leeway in tolerating gratuitous attacks on other posters, I think.

There were plenty of posters who were thrown off TOTV for crazy attacks on people. One guy was thrown off 3 different times I can think of for foulness, and I believe he's back on the forum again. He's being more careful now, so I guess he learned his lesson.

So that was a good thing, right?

[Guest]

I'd like to invite ya'll to some Virginia Shad Planking or Political BBQ. No Big Brother there. The meek doesn't gain in politics.

I have been to a Virginia shad planking. Did not like any part of it - especially the shad. Nasty tasting fish. Rather eat the plank. The whiskey was pretty decent, though.

[Guest]

I think the sign up requirements are fine. Lately I noticed a tad too much "guidance" from Big Bro.

maybe, posh08, if you take a look at the 'join date' of many of the posters who have opted in to the political forum, you will understand that there just might be a history among them...something that needs monitoring in order to remind us when it is time to take a deep breath and step back before we post again.

[Guest]

maybe, posh08, if you take a look at the 'join date' of many of the posters who have opted in to the political forum, you will understand that there just might be a history among them...something that needs monitoring in order to remind us when it is time to take a deep breath and step back before we post again.

Cannot say that I have met any of the usual posters on the Political Forum. At least, that I know of because many of them do not have any pictures to go with their avatars.

[Guest]

maybe, posh08, if you take a look at the 'join date' of many of the posters who have opted in to the political forum, you will understand that there just might be a history among them...something that needs monitoring in order to remind us when it is time to take a deep breath and step back before we post again.

Are you saying there are clique's in TV? I was going to say hard to believe but really its EASY to believe. I assume you can "bounce back" between the political forum and the so called regular forum true? Where and how do you join? Are you required to use the same "handle"? :boxing2: Are there Independents on the forum----who think both sides are :cus:?

[Guest]

Are you saying there are clique's in TV? I was going to say hard to believe but really its EASY to believe. I assume you can "bounce back" between the political forum and the so called regular forum true? Where and how do you join? Are you required to use the same "handle"? :boxing2: Are there Independents on the forum----who think both sides are :cus:?

Yes there are some of US that try to keep it clean and civil, but some on here are relentless at trying to stir up arguments.

[Guest]

Are you saying there are clique's in TV? I was going to say hard to believe but really its EASY to believe. I assume you can "bounce back" between the political forum and the so called regular forum true? Where and how do you join? Are you required to use the same "handle"? :boxing2: Are there Independents on the forum----who think both sides are :cus:?

NO - i did not say there wer cliques - nor did i infer ther wer cliques. you are putting your own spin on my post!

go and look at the join dates and then look at the frequency of the 'regulars' and you will see that their history is ANYTHING BUT a clique!

you can ASSume anything you wish, but, you know what that means!

[Guest]

Yes there are some of US that try to keep it clean and civil, but some on here are relentless at trying to stir up arguments.

You have been here for FOUR MONTHS ????

[Guest]

You have been here for FOUR MONTHS ????

OH. I forgot about that.

[Guest]

maybe, posh08, if you take a look at the 'join date' of many of the posters who have opted in to the political forum, you will understand that there just might be a history among them...something that needs monitoring in order to remind us when it is time to take a deep breath and step back before we post again.

There are those here who are adept at finding their way back to TOTV after having been banished. There's one poster that I know of in particular who is back for his 3rd or even maybe his 4th reincarnation.

He now kvetches about civility but was often the worst offender, resulting in his ousters. You can get a hint about this poster by all his references to the old days when he's only joined mere months ago as seen in the date of his membership.

[Guest]

There are those here who are adept at finding their way back to TOTV after having been banished. There's one poster that I know of in particular who is back for his 3rd or even maybe his 4th reincarnation.

He now kvetches about civility but was often the worst offender, resulting in his ousters. You can get a hint about this poster by all his references to the old days when he's only joined mere months ago as seen in the date of his membership.

There are words to describe the folks you refer to...sneaky, dishonest, less than genuine, phoney to name just a few.

Of course they are the ones that use the snide remarks, etc and have NO ability to discuss.

If I have any problem with the board, and I am not sure the admins can do anything about it, is the posters who actually do not discuss issues but simply use the tweet type mechanism...little wise cracks if you will. A sentence or two, they probably stole from someone else or got a tweet from someone and thought it was cute and they post that. I think they are referred to as trolls on other boards

When this forum (political) was set up way back....the idea was discussion and it was smaller back then, but those who obviously were here simply to make trouble and make cracks were gotten rid of. I still find it extremely offensive on either side the name calling of celebrities. I certainly oppose Obama and for the most part refer to him by his last name or President...only when provoked and I respond directly to one of the folks who I suppose find them selves funny call someone else by name.

I wrote to the admins on some of this and am still investigating the law a bit....admin has lawyers of course also, but this was set up for folks to DISCUSS AND INFORM.....not to demean and ridicule. You can get upset at anyone you want at anytime...but there is just no excuse for calling ANYONE AT ALL a name. You can disagree vocally with anyones opinion and have strong ones of your own, but there is NO EXCUSE TO DEMEAN AND RIDICULE ANYONE for any reason on this earth.

But, to RICHIE'S point.....what you see on here is NOT what you get....as he said, you might think a poster is new but he/she is on his/her 2nd or 3rd life...been tossed and came back with a new name and guess what...you do not change your personality that quickly.

[Guest]

There are words to describe the folks you refer to...sneaky, dishonest, less than genuine, phoney to name just a few.

Of course they are the ones that use the snide remarks, etc and have NO ability to discuss.

If I have any problem with the board, and I am not sure the admins can do anything about it, is the posters who actually do not discuss issues but simply use the tweet type mechanism...little wise cracks if you will. A sentence or two, they probably stole from someone else or got a tweet from someone and thought it was cute and they post that. I think they are referred to as trolls on other boards

When this forum (political) was set up way back....the idea was discussion and it was smaller back then, but those who obviously were here simply to make trouble and make cracks were gotten rid of. I still find it extremely offensive on either side the name calling of celebrities. I certainly oppose Obama and for the most part refer to him by his last name or President...only when provoked and I respond directly to one of the folks who I suppose find them selves funny call someone else by name.

I wrote to the admins on some of this and am still investigating the law a bit....admin has lawyers of course also, but this was set up for folks to DISCUSS AND INFORM.....not to demean and ridicule. You can get upset at anyone you want at anytime...but there is just no excuse for calling ANYONE AT ALL a name. You can disagree vocally with anyones opinion and have strong ones of your own, but there is NO EXCUSE TO DEMEAN AND RIDICULE ANYONE for any reason on this earth.

But, to RICHIE'S point.....what you see on here is NOT what you get....as he said, you might think a poster is new but he/she is on his/her 2nd or 3rd life...been tossed and came back with a new name and guess what...you do not change your personality that quickly.

You are pretty much free to say anything demeaning about public figures like politicians such as President Obama and candidate Mitt Romney as they have a great ability to defend themselves against any kind of written false statements. It gets messier when you start making comments about people who are not public figures but are in the news for some reason especially if you have some reason to know facts about that person that are not accessible to others.

[Guest]

You are pretty much free to say anything demeaning about public figures like politicians as they have a great ability to defend themselves against any kinds of written false statements. It gets messier when you start making comments about people who are not public figures but are in the news for some reason especially if you have some reasson to know facts about that person that are not accessible to others.

I understand what you are saying and I agree.

Two things, there are movements to change that and it does not make the person who demeans and calls name any better as a person.

[Guest]

Related but NOT REALLY.....

"Calls for Twitter to clamp down on so-called "trolls" sending abusive hate messages via the social networking site intensified yesterday after a string of high-profile attacks on famous names "

Pressure grows on Twitter to curb abusive 'trolls' - News - Gadgets & Tech - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/pressure-grows-on-twitter-to-curb-abusive-trolls-8007756.html)

As I said, it is not the same thing but it does show how our technological advances give these folks something to hide behind to ridicule more successful people than themselves to make themselves feel good about themselves.

[Guest]

Cannot say that I have met any of the usual posters on the Political Forum. At least, that I know of because many of them do not have any pictures to go with their avatars.

That's because I work with stealth technology and I have a tendency to get close to my work:D

[Guest]

are you afraid to say who you are insulting this time? My name is Lou Card. Whats your name Little Fella?

I remember you....were you thrown off ? If so, how do you get back ?

[Guest]

I am trying my best to not get into trouble on the forum, but it is hard when bullies keep hounding me all the time. Maybe he will grow up and get off my back.

[Guest]

Nice to see someone that is man enough to talk too me and not about me.

:a040:

Not being a wise guy, but was not meant as a hug....I just did not know you could be thrown off and get back on. If that is true...hmmmm.,,

[Guest]

Not being a wise guy, but was not meant as a hug....I just did not know you could be thrown off and get back on. If that is true...hmmmm.,,

Bucco: for what it is worth this guy's tactics do not provide him any credibility. I for one will ignore his posts.

[Guest]

Bucco: for what it is worth this guy's tactics do not provide him any credibility. I for one will ignore his posts.

Thank you Rubicon. Please ask your friend to do the same and this will be a better place to discuss politics without insults.

[Guest]

This is starting to wander way off topic and becoming personal.

The admin is well aware of the history.

A good discussion up to now. We appreciate the feedback. Our role is not to stifle discussion or dissent but to insure that people treat each other with respect and post with civility. A good bit more leeway is granted in political than in the main forum.

Moderator

[Guest]

This is starting to wander way off topic and becoming personal.

The admin is well aware of the history.

A good discussion up to now. We appreciate the feedback. Our role is not to stifle discussion or dissent but to insure that people treat each other with respect and post with civility. A good bit more leeway is granted in political than in the main forum.

Moderator

Thank you and My apologies if I offended the Forum. I let one member get under my skin and I suppose he is just needling me to have fun. I will think that thought in the future and pray I stay in his blind spot from now on. Sorry for any inappropriate comments from me Rich.

[Guest]

And a thorn is still a thorn. :icon_wink:

[Guest]

And a thorn is still a thorn. :icon_wink:

exactly

[Guest]

I imagine this will be deleted like my revealing post above, but I've got to say, sadly, there is little "Freedom Of Speech In Political", per the title of this thread.

There are items you cannot talk about here that make little sense to me. I'll never understand it.

[Guest]

I will not say anything on this forum that I would not say to your face. You can take that to the bank.

[Guest]

ditto what figmo said.

btk

[Guest]

I will not say anything on this forum that I would not say to your face. You can take that to the bank.

I am with you on that Figmo. :beer3:

[Guest]

Everything I said on this forum I would definitely say to anyone's face. But there's a someone amongst us who is a monumental phony, and for some reason is protected by the powers that be even from repeating his own words.

It's a mystery to me. I expect this post to also be deleted.

There is little freedom of speech here.

Unfortanetly I would also say the same things in person. What bothers me and I have the situation now are folks who simply make cracks..one liners, sometimes but not always relative to the thread, but all the posts seem personal. I have now begun to report them all and we will see. I do not know the basis on which the admin works but we will see.

I am not speaking of those who disagree with your opinion..that is fair game but responses that have nothing to do with what you say or what the thread is about, simply a smart crack of some kind.

This may not make sense but it has driven me to vacations from the board :) but no more....I have been here since it started and I do not attack anyone but have much too sensitive to them coming after me but no more.

I have had reasonable discussions on here with folks who disagree with me totally but it is difficult if you are talking about an economic issue that the response is to make fun of someone who is not even part of the conversation and is not even in politics any longer.

[Guest]

Ever get in an argument in a bar let go what the beef. Cant take the heat get out of the fire or oven or what ever

[Guest]

My advice is to get to know some of the posters personally. I have gotten to know a couple of them like RichieLion and Figmo. Even though we do not agree on political aspects, both are very nice guys. I have invited others but to no avail, though.

[Guest]

My advice is to get to know some of the posters personally. I have gotten to know a couple of them like RichieLion and Figmo. Even though we do not agree on political aspects, both are very nice guys. I have invited others but to no avail, though.

It's true and I do value your friendship and companionship, and also I enjoy beating you about the ears over your misguided political ideas.:laugh:

The one thing I have to say is that you are exactly as you appear. A jovial good natured fellow with a decidedly liberal slant.

You're not a phony.

I can't say that for all.

[Guest]

nice - kumbaya, guys! ;)

[Guest]

Can a retired person take a vacation???

[Guest]

Nice, but I have been ridiculed and mocked and made fun of directly on here...I sure do not need that in person !!! So I will pass !!

I suppose I should get wise and figure I deserve it !

:)

[Guest]

Nice, but I have been ridiculed and mocked and made fun of directly on here...I sure do not need that in person !!! So I will pass !!

I suppose I should get wise and figure I deserve it !

:)

You're only mocked when you are winning the argument. Trust me on that.

The liberals cannot win this argument or this election on the issues; issues you so devastatingly bash their mushy skulls with.

The strategy of Obama is reflected by the liberals on this forum. Lie, attack, vilify and demean. Ridicule is the weapon of the modern American liberal.

Thinking people know this is true. Don't think nobody sees what's going on here.

This post of mine will be ridiculed. It's the only weapon they've got left.

[Guest]

This is starting to wander way off topic and becoming personal.

The admin is well aware of the history.

A good discussion up to now. We appreciate the feedback. Our role is not to stifle discussion or dissent but to insure that people treat each other with respect and post with civility. A good bit more leeway is granted in political than in the main forum.

Moderator

Appreciate your efforts however it appears this forum is being subjected to a form of censorship that depends entirely on a definition of respect and civility from the eyes of a single beholder which might not be universally agreed to. A more liberal approach is much more likely not to stifle or limit future participation.

[Guest]

We all bring our own personal views, opinions and beliefs to this forum. Clearly civility, respect and addressing the specific issue at hand are vital if we are to gain anything along the lines of information.

In my view the underlying problem now and is reflected in this forum and I believe with all other blogs, television reports, etc is that campaigns are far too long and with a zillion places blasting information we are all over saturated.

I voted on Saturday and asked the woman who had checked my photo ID, a good practice and one verified by the fact that Valerie Jarret demanded two photo ID's for anyone attending her daughter's wedding in June, if I could please have my voting form for the Presidential election also. Obviously she declined.

How much more pounding can or does a person have to take. I don't care who the Vice President pick will be or to watch any debates or even view the National Convention. Its all noise and its all too expensive.

What the heck is wrong with a three month period before an election to campaign, debate, advertise then vote?

[Guest]

Everything I said on this forum I would definitely say to anyone's face. But there's a someone amongst us who is a monumental phony, and for some reason is protected by the powers that be even from repeating his own words.

It's a mystery to me. I expect this post to also be deleted.

There is little freedom of speech here.

Richie - We will not delete your post. NO ONE is protected on this site. But when you or anyone else directs a comment at anther user we will get involved. It is very simple. If that doesn't work for ANYONE then that person should unsubscribe from the political forum.

If anyone has a comment that they want to direct to the 'powers to be' which is Admin/Moderators/Owners it needs to be done privately or the user account will be suspended. We don't 'air' when we do corrective actions with specific users publicly on the site and ask for the same respect in return if you have a comment to make about the site ownership or moderation.

We don't moderate opinions. It is a private site and a user account is requested, terms of service agreed to, and then the powers to be decide to issue the user account. If everyone would follow rule #1 - Do not direct comments toward another user I'd pick up about 7 hours a week of time.

Also Richie - if anyone else would have made a negative comment about the moderators or administrators (Power to Be) publicly I would ban their account because everyone knows how to contact us privately to express concern about something the powers to be are doing or have done. Since you have been on the site since 2009 and have over 5k post I'm taking that into consideration and treating it different than someone who hasn't contributed so much over the years. I hope no one feels that I'm protecting you but I believe it is the right thing to do.

This thread is close so we can spend time focusing on improving the site.