How could you write a rental agreement...

[graciegirl]

So as to avoid the terrible complication of having tenants who would start a meth lab?

How could you research their background to have some idea if they are decent and above board?

I would guess this would happen in long term rentals more than short term ones.

Can you write a rental agreement that excludes certain aged people and if you could would it help?

Can you write a rental agreement that excludes felons and other law breakers?

Just what is it legal to do?

This is all just because I am wondering. I don't have a rental property, but it appears that renting now has new dangers that I never thought of.

[gustavo]

So as to avoid the terrible complication of having tenants who would start a meth lab?

How could you research their background to have some idea if they are decent and above board?

I would guess this would happen in long term rentals more than short term ones.

Can you write a rental agreement that excludes certain aged people and if you could would it help?

Can you write a rental agreement that excludes felons and other law breakers?

Just what is it legal to do?

This is all just because I am wondering. I don't have a rental property, but it appears that renting now has new dangers that I never thought of.

Most standard rental agreement templates have the clauses that you can't be committing crimes during the rental, but all that does is give the landlord the right to terminate the agreement. If the landlord wants to claim damage, it's usually limited to the security deposit. Not near the amount necessary to right the situation as described in the Lynnhaven incident.

[bkcunningham1]

Gracie, I understand trying to protect yourself and your property. But suppose you do everything possible including background checks and the people you rent to haven't been arrested before. Keep supposing that they meet every requirement on your lease and they turn out to be drug dealers and start cooking meth in your garage?

The thing is, you don't want to let it get to the rental agreement part. You have every right to request background checks, credit reports, references, check with the potential renter's employer to see if they have a job and their income et al. If they pass all of these tests and they are scumbags, you will still get stuck with scumbag renters.

[cquick]

Well, I certainly wouldn't rent to kids in their 20's in TV.

[Bogie Shooter]

Well, I certainly wouldn't rent to kids in their 20's in TV.

Can you do that even if you wanted to??

[ohhappyday]

I guess that was my main question as well...why rent to a 24 and 36 year old in a retirement community? Plenty of older adults looking to rent. Of course the report I read didn't state they were renting just assuming. I'm sure the tips came from neighbors. The mug shots sure spoke volumes.

Oh but I do have to amend this because where we used to live the homeowner rented to a nice women and a large group moved in and trashed the house...the only time she got wind of this was when the entire street was getting ready to take her to court. Soooo...with that said....the homeowner may not have rented to kids.

[bkcunningham1]

Can you do that even if you wanted to??

The rules say 19 and over. So, I don't see why not.

[Patty55]

Well, for starters if they looked like those two crack heads and gave a Probation Officer as a reference I'd tell them it was already rented.

I kind of think this was an isolated incident and let's not forget it was caught in a week.

[batman911]

I doubt that Meth Heads really care about what your rental contract says or if they forfeit their deposit. They will do what they do until the law shows up to take them away. In most cases, they are probably using stolen ID so you may be checking on a different persons records.

[Skybo]

Well, I certainly wouldn't rent to kids in their 20's in TV.

Can you do that even if you wanted to??

I don’t know for a fact Bogie, but I believe that homeowners in an age-restricted community can legally require their renters to be 55+. The HOPA requirements (80% of homes with one occupant 55+) are the minimum requirements for a community to maintain their HOPA status. But each community can enact more stringent rules. For instance a community may require that 100% of the homes are occupied by one person 55+ or they could require that every resident be 55+. So it seems logical to me that an individual homeowner in The Villages could refuse to rent to someone under 55, without running afoul of age discrimination laws. In fact, in the unlikely event that the ratio of 55+ in TV were to ever get close to dipping below the 80% rule, The Villages might actually require homeowners to ensure that at least on renter is 55+...otherwise TV could lose their HOPA status.

[casita37]

The report I read called the 61 year old home owner a "good samaritan" and said she was "giving" them a place to live. I thought maybe they were living with her, not renting from her. It wasn't very clear.

[OpusX1]

A Landlord may not discriminate for any reason because of age, race, familia status, religion, handicap, or sex. You must treat all applications the same, ie same deposit, same credit checks etc. If you don't and get checked by a checker you stand a good chance of losing the property and possibly much more. So any person over 19 years and 1 day may in fact live here up to the percentage required by law. It is the Landlords responsibility to treat every applicant exactly the same. The Fair Housing people do use checkers and set up stings, by sending multiple applicants to apply for the same property. It is also the Landlords responsibility to collect and pay sales tax if the property is rented for less than six months and 1 day.

[tv2016]

There are exemptions to the fair housing act. A landlord who rents three or fewer single-family homes is exempt.

[Skybo]

A Landlord may not discriminate for any reason because of age, race, familia status, religion, handicap, or sex.

Yes, that is a quote from the Federal Fair Housing Act. However, federally qualified age-restricted/adult/senior/55+ ... whatever you want to call them communities are exempt from the age and familial status discrimination portion of the Fair Housing Act via the Housing for Older Persons Act (HOPA).

HOPA does not require The Villages or any other HOPA-qualified community to sell or rent to anyone under the age of 55. Qualified communities can require every single resident in every home to be 55+ if they want to. They can require every resident in every home to be 60+ if they want to. The only requirement (with regard to this discussion) is that a minimum of 80% of the homes within the community be occupied by at least one person 55 or older. What is required of the other residents in each home or with the other 20% of the homes is a “policy” decision made by the owner/developer/HOA ... whomever is in charge of writing policies for that community.

The last community I lived in required 100% of the homes be occupied by one person who was at least 55, including homes that were rented out.

I haven’t yet found sources that specifically address what we are talking about here (an individual homeowner’s rights/requirements) when it comes to renting out their home in a community such as TV, which (currently) allows residents under 55. I may be wrong, but based on my own research and personal experience, I believe that a homeowner in The Villages can require their renters to be of a certain age...as long as that is their policy for everyone and isn’t used as a means to discriminate for other reasons.

[OpusX1]

The Villages as far as I know have no rental restrictions. We do not have A Hoa per say and we do have the precedent of selling/renting to persons under 55 with no one in the household being 55. If you get involved in a Fair housing problem you better have deep pockets and a very good attorney. Just do a search on fair housing.
I know of one case in Ohio of a lady that has a $75,000.00 judgement because she suggested that a handicapped person would be better off in the downstairs unit of a duplex she has rented for years because they applied for the upstairs unit. The checkers are the only form of legal entrapment that I know of.
We owned and operated a B & B for 22 years, just 3 rooms, and I know of at least 4 times we had checkers drop in. I could be wrong but I am not risking my property. I also know of 3 Landlords here that do not charge sales tax and I know the state is auditing Landlords for past due tax. The tenant is not responsible to pay the sales tax if the Landlord is audited the Landlord is.

[OpusX1]

There are exemptions to the fair housing act. A landlord who rents three or fewer single-family homes is exempt.

If you want to rent your single family home and discriminate go for it :)

[tv2016]

If you want to rent your single family home and discriminate go for it :)

My point was to share information, not to support discrimination. In fact, I personally find discrimination quite offensive. I'm sure many of us strive to treat everyone fairly and continue to learn and grow as our society continues to evolve.

Some information about the Fair Housing Act and its exceptions (and exceptions to the exceptions!):

Civil Rights Division Home Page (http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/hce/title8.php)

[Steve & Deanna]

When we rented in 2007, it was through The Villages and then through a property manager the other years. We did remit a $500.00 deposit in all cases and knew that we would be liable for any damage more than just the use of the place. We believed this community to be age restricted too. These people should be held responsible for any damage done to the home. I would have hoped that the owner of the home was smart enough to take a healthy deposit.

[Schaumburger]

I don’t know for a fact Bogie, but I believe that homeowners in an age-restricted community can legally require their renters to be 55+. The HOPA requirements (80% of homes with one occupant 55+) are the minimum requirements for a community to maintain their HOPA status. But each community can enact more stringent rules. For instance a community may require that 100% of the homes are occupied by one person 55+ or they could require that every resident be 55+. So it seems logical to me that an individual homeowner in The Villages could refuse to rent to someone under 55, without running afoul of age discrimination laws. In fact, in the unlikely event that the ratio of 55+ in TV were to ever get close to dipping below the 80% rule, The Villages might actually require homeowners to ensure that at least on renter is 55+...otherwise TV could lose their HOPA status.

This wannabee has rented four times in TV -- twice in 2011 when I was age 50 and age 51 and twice in 2012 when I was age 51 and age 52. When I inquire about rentals I always tell the landlords that I am not yet 55. Not being 55 has not been an issue with any of the landlords I have rented from. I have always left the rental homes clean and tidy with no damage, and I have always gotten my security deposit back. I am hoping to rent again in TV in the late spring or early summer (the good Lord willing and the creek don't rise).

If a landlord in TV wanted references I could certainly provide some. And if they want to verify my employment and credit history, I would be glad to provide that information.

[Skybo]

This wannabee has rented four times in TV -- twice in 2011 when I was age 50 and age 51 and twice in 2012 when I was age 51 and age 52. When I inquire about rentals I always tell the landlords that I am not yet 55. Not being 55 has not been an issue with any of the landlords I have rented from. I have always left the rental homes clean and tidy with no damage, and I have always gotten my security deposit back. I am hoping to rent again in TV in the late spring or early summer (the good Lord willing and the creek don't rise).

If a landlord in TV wanted references I could certainly provide some. And if they want to verify my employment and credit history, I would be glad to provide that information.

Schaumburger, I wasn't trying to infer that people under 55 aren't good renters or shouldn't be allowed to rent here. Not at all. The question was asked ... could a homeowner here legally refuse to rent to someone based on their age, and in fact the "age" being discussed were people in their 20's, not their 50's. I was just giving my opinion that I *think*, in an age-restricted community, it would be legal for homeowners to refuse to rent to someone under 55, if they so choose.

[DougB]

Looks like the "us" (55 and over) vs. "them" (young adults) argument again. You don't think meth labs aren't ever run by 55 and overs?

[graciegirl]

Looks like the "us" (55 and over) vs. "them" (young adults) argument again. You don't think meth labs aren't ever run by 55 and overs?

Nope. I don't BECAUSE most folks running a meth lab are addicted and they don't live to be 55 or older.

How's that reasoning....and in case you think I'm wrong, look at that picture AGAIN of the 25 year old girl who was busted.

[DougB]

Sorry, but I think your reasoning is flawed if you do not believe SOME meth labs are run by those 55 and over.

[graciegirl]

Sorry, but I think your reasoning is flawed if you do not believe SOME meth labs are run by those 55 and over.

I missed your point here somewhere. This is a community designed for the over 55 crowd in mind.

By Glory, if they are gonna run a meth lab here they had better be over 55.

[DougB]

Hey, I'm with you on that!

[TONISIGN]

It's wise to invest in a background and credit check of prospective tenants and clearly state in leasing agreement exactly who will be living there.

Regardless of how much due diligence a property owner does, there's no guarantees. People violate agreements all the time and many agreements are non-enforceable once it hits the fan.

A homeowner who rents their property needs an advocate who lives in the neighborhood to keep watch or they should hire a rental property manager to avoid possible misuse of their home.

[rayschic]

The key to the 80% rule is homeOWNERS not homeRENTERS.
When I BUY a home, they apply the rule.
The homeowner can then rent to whomever they want.
I owned a rental home for 6 years here in TV. Many times our home was rented to people under 55. Mostly, they were visiting family that owned homes here.

[Skybo]

The key to the 80% rule is homeOWNERS not homeRENTERS.
When I BUY a home, they apply the rule.
The homeowner can then rent to whomever they want.
I owned a rental home for 6 years here in TV. Many times our home was rented to people under 55. Mostly, they were visiting family that owned homes here.

That is incorrect. The Federal law which governs 55+ communities applies to occupants, it doesn't matter if they are owners or renters. See the answer to question 21 of the following link. Edited to add: Question 22 also applies to the topic of renters.

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/documents/huddoc?id=DOC_7769.pdf

[rayschic]

That is incorrect. The Federal law which governs 55+ communities applies to occupants, it doesn't matter if they are owners or renters. See the answer to question 21 of the following link. Edited to add: Question 22 also applies to the topic of renters.

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/documents/huddoc?id=DOC_7769.pdf

Very interesting, Skybo.
Thanks for educating me. That makes it extremely difficult to track the 80/20 rule. Thanks for posting.

[Skybo]

You're welcome. The good news is...you (as a homeowner) don't have to worry about the ages of your renters. It is up to TV to track and report that data. I can only assume that the known occupancy ratio of 55+ is so far over the required 80%, that rentals aren't (at least for the time-being) much of a concern to TV.