Church on the Square services closing for good?

[pbeinetti]

I am concerned that there will be no more church services at the Church on the Square after renovation. I was at the service today, and the guest singers both said 'good bye'. The pastor also said good bye. I asked him on the way out if there will be no more church services, and he said yes, that's his understanding. Does anyone have information on this? The developer said in his recent state of the villages speech that "We can assure you that you will have some of the same things you have now.....". But, he did not say that church services will continue. He also said "There is sort of an artist's rendering of what the outside will look like....". This seems odd -- he said this only 3 months prior to the start of renovation. There is only an artist's rendering? I am wondering if we are getting the whole truth. Why can't the developer say that church services will continue? There are many, many people who go to church at the Church on the Square -- hundreds, probably thousands. The Church on the Square is an icon for The Villages. When we have guests come to visit, the Church on the Square gets more accolades than anything else in TV. People are typically overwhelmed. Will this be lost, and instead replaced by another entertainment venue -- one that does not even fit the needs of the growing Villages. Is anyone else disturbed, other than just me? If anyone has factual information on this, please respond. I have asked the head of the POA, and she does not know -- and says she has no way of finding out.
Thank you, Peter

[graciegirl]

I am concerned that there will be no more church services at the Church on the Square after renovation. I was at the service today, and the guest singers both said 'good bye'. The pastor also said good bye. I asked him on the way out if there will be no more church services, and he said yes, that's his understanding. Does anyone have information on this? The developer said in his recent state of the villages speech that "We can assure you that you will have some of the same things you have now.....". But, he did not say that church services will continue. He also said "There is sort of an artist's rendering of what the outside will look like....". This seems odd -- he said this only 3 months prior to the start of renovation. There is only an artist's rendering? I am wondering if we are getting the whole truth. Why can't the developer say that church services will continue? There are many, many people who go to church at the Church on the Square -- hundreds, probably thousands. The Church on the Square is an icon for The Villages. When we have guests come to visit, the Church on the Square gets more accolades than anything else in TV. People are typically overwhelmed. Will this be lost, and instead replaced by another entertainment venue -- one that does not even fit the needs of the growing Villages. Is anyone else disturbed, other than just me? If anyone has factual information on this, please respond. I have asked the head of the POA, and she does not know -- and says she has no way of finding out.
Thank you, Peter

Peter.

I was of the understanding that there was one non denominational service a week on Sunday at Church on the Square and it did not function like a typical church with a bunch of activities and clubs and other things other than just that one service.

Not to take away from that...

But am I correct on this?

[pbeinetti]

Gracie: There has been one non-denominational service every Sunday for years. What I am concerned about is that this service may be eliminated -- and, that no one is telling us this. I would like to find out what the plans are. Someone has to know.

[senior citizen]

I am concerned that there will be no more church services at the Church on the Square after renovation. I was at the service today, and the guest singers both said 'good bye'. The pastor also said good bye. I asked him on the way out if there will be no more church services, and he said yes, that's his understanding. Does anyone have information on this? The developer said in his recent state of the villages speech that "We can assure you that you will have some of the same things you have now.....". But, he did not say that church services will continue. He also said "There is sort of an artist's rendering of what the outside will look like....". This seems odd -- he said this only 3 months prior to the start of renovation. There is only an artist's rendering? I am wondering if we are getting the whole truth. Why can't the developer say that church services will continue? There are many, many people who go to church at the Church on the Square -- hundreds, probably thousands. The Church on the Square is an icon for The Villages. When we have guests come to visit, the Church on the Square gets more accolades than anything else in TV. People are typically overwhelmed. Will this be lost, and instead replaced by another entertainment venue -- one that does not even fit the needs of the growing Villages. Is anyone else disturbed, other than just me? If anyone has factual information on this, please respond. I have asked the head of the POA, and she does not know -- and says she has no way of finding out.
Thank you, Peter

Strange. We haven't even moved there yet, and all of the things we had read about and seen during our visit are now "up in the air" or cancelled such as the parades, fireworks, etc..........plus many disparaging remarks on numerous restaurants which we didn't have time for the last time around but were looking forward to visiting. Would other folks say that services or amenities in general are being cut?? Perhaps due to the economy? It's a beautiful church that should remain open. Hopefully, someone is "in the know" and can answer your question.

[graciegirl]

Strange. We haven't even moved there yet, and all of the things we had read about and seen during our visit are now "up in the air" or cancelled such as the parades, fireworks, etc..........plus many disparaging remarks on numerous restaurants which we didn't have time for the last time around but were looking forward to visiting. Would other folks say that services or amenities in general are being cut?? Perhaps due to the economy? It's a beautiful church that should remain open. Hopefully, someone is "in the know" and can answer your question.

The church's main purpose has always been as an entertainment venue. It was not built as a house of worship but as part of the scene of a Spanish town. It has always had just one non denominational service per week and no other church functions. It is being enlarged inside now and that is the reason for canceling the church service. I would be surprised if it didn't resume after the renovation. There has NEVER been fireworks here to my knowledge and the parades have been cancelled. There have always been disparaging remarks against almost all restaurants and many that I personally enjoy very much. I see nothing changing here. Same old, same old lovely place with lots to do.

[jojo]

I agree with everything Gracie said. She is spot on as usual.

[skip0358]

As for the church services stopping I'd give Janet Tutt a call in the District Office she'll get you an answer to that question. As for the Restaurant comments I've said this before with over 110K residents from all over moving here after living elsewhere for 50+ years it's not going to be like home was. You move here for a change and a new life. Part of that is finding new places you enjoy eating at. Granted some have their problems but most are VERY good. As for the Parades it's my understanding a new arrangement has been made and the local clubs and volunteers are now in charge of managing the parades on the off Holidays ex: St. Pats etc. The Christmas Parade is still a go at the Polo Fields last I read. As for Fireworks I'm sure Gracie is 100% correct and there are displays very close by. TV is a great place, with great people and a wonderful lifestyle.

[nitehawk]

let me ask you gracie ---- when you first move here was the conditions better or worse _____ did you get the internet tee time for nothing ??? was the chanpionship golf couses in better shape ??? (please do not tell me rain or hogs) - i will add the executive courses to that about being better or worse.. Maybe soon we could put the buffalo back on the couses. has the design of the couses gone down hill from the couses north of 466 to south of 466 and then south of 466a. Was Havana a good place to eat. Nice design of Bonify club house - looks like a - oh never mind -- you are right same old same old music lin squares. what happen to El Santiargo Rest. nice neighborhood place - PLease tell me what got getter --- are we getting set up for live after build out finish or IRS payback

[Bonny]

Strange. We haven't even moved there yet, and all of the things we had read about and seen during our visit are now "up in the air" or cancelled such as the parades, fireworks, etc..........plus many disparaging remarks on numerous restaurants which we didn't have time for the last time around but were looking forward to visiting. Would other folks say that services or amenities in general are being cut?? Perhaps due to the economy? It's a beautiful church that should remain open. Hopefully, someone is "in the know" and can answer your question.

We bought here in 1999. That was the last year for fireworks. A lot of building going on & pets, buffalo & cows were being affected and the cost was definitely not cheap.

[graciegirl]

let me ask you gracie ---- when you first move here was the conditions better or worse _____ did you get the internet tee time for nothing ??? was the chanpionship golf couses in better shape ??? (please do not tell me rain or hogs) - i will add the executive courses to that about being better or worse.. Maybe soon we could put the buffalo back on the couses. has the design of the couses gone down hill from the couses north of 466 to south of 466 and then south of 466a. Was Havana a good place to eat. Nice design of Bonify club house - looks like a - oh never mind -- you are right same old same old music lin squares. what happen to El Santiargo Rest. nice neighborhood place - PLease tell me what got getter --- are we getting set up for live after build out finish or IRS payback

Nitehawk,

Not sure of your point. Have had to pay for internet access to booking golf for all of the six years we have been here. The championship courses I don't play but Sweetie does and he plays them almost every day and I have asked him if they are in bad shape and he says no. The executive courses are beaten up probably due to the fact that we have so many not trained golfers in part. But they aren't horrible. And not a lot worse than six years ago.

Havana had troubles right out the chute with the big name chef disappearing within the first month of opening, correct me if I am wrong. I don't know what happened to the El Santiago restaurant or why it closed, perhaps the reason other restaurants close here? Priced too high?

I never felt all warm and cozy about the buffalo. Don't hate them, like to snuggle up with cats and dogs better, but I understand that a lot of people are still mourning them. I imagine they were there to keep the cost of the lands taxes at an agricultural fee. The Bonifay club house is NOT luxurious and drop dead gorgeous but it's um...cute.

What else ya got?

I feel real snarly this morning.:duck:

[Bonny]

Nitehawk,

Not sure of your point. Have had to pay for internet access to booking golf for all of the six years we have been here. The championship courses I don't play but Sweetie does and he plays them almost every day and I have asked him if they are in bad shape and he says no. The executive courses are beaten up probably due to the fact that we have so many not trained golfers in part. But they aren't horrible. And not a lot worse than six years ago.

Havana had troubles right out the chute with the big name chef disappearing within the first month of opening, correct me if I am wrong. I don't know what happened to the El Santiago restaurant or why it closed, perhaps the reason other restaurants close here? Priced too high?

I never felt all warm and cozy about the buffalo. Don't hate them, like to snuggle up with cats and dogs better, but I understand that a lot of people are still mourning them. I imagine they were there to keep the cost of the lands taxes at an agricultural fee. The Bonifay club house is NOT luxurious and drop dead gorgeous but it's um...cute.

What else ya got?

I feel real snarly this morning.:duck:

Santiago needed a lot of repairs. It wasn't kept up like it should have been. The owners at the time wanted the Villages to do the repairs because they didn't want to pay to do it.

[pbeinetti]

I would like to move this thread back to what I originally wrote about -- the Church on the Square. Does anyone have any information about whether or not church services will be held in the future? Gracie says the 'church' was never built to be a church, but an entertainment venue. And, that no other church type activities are held there. Not exactly true. There are bible studies held at the Church on the Square, and many Christmas/holiday activities that are amplified by being held in a church. If Church on the Square isn't a church, but an entertainment venue, then it should not have been named a church from the beginning. My original post had to do with whether we are being told the straight scoop by the developer. His comment ...'you will have some of the same things you have now...' is very ambiguous, probably on purpose. One poster suggested I contact Janet Tutt, but Janet is no more than a mouthpiece for the developer. Does anyone have any information, or is this one of those things where we'll find out when it happens -- whether we like it or not? I hate to be cynical on this, but there are many, many people who are going to be very disappointed, and feeling hoodwinked, if the Church on the Square ends up not looking like a church, with no church services. Morse says they have an artist's rendition -- fine, share it with us now.

[graciegirl]

///

[blueash]

Wouldn't renovations require permits and architectural designs submitted and approved by the county? Searching on the Lake county property website reveals that the parcel of land is :

Parcel Type Land Base
Parcel Status Valid
Parcel Number 061824300100000500
Section 06
Township 18
Range 24
Subdivision 3001
Owner Name ABUNDANT LIFE MINISTRIES INC
Owner Address 1100 MAIN ST
Owner City LADY LAKE
Owner State FL
Owner Zip 32159
Owner Province
Owner Country
Property Address LADY LAKE FL 32159
Subdivision Name VILLAGE CENTER DOWNTOWN, LADY LAKE
Vacant No
Year Built 1997
ComResStatus C
Land Value 570330
Building Value 2157135
Misc Value Null
Assessed Value 2727465
Last Sale Price Null
Last Sale Date Null
Exemptions 10
Millage FVCD
Last Tax Amount 0
LandUse Code 7100
LandUse Description CHURCH
Property ClassCode 71
Property Class Description CHURCH
Acres 0.87

There are no listed permits. Perhaps the online information is incomplete or I am doing the search wrong. If you really are interested I would think a call to the county office would yield better results. Or perhaps the renovation is cosmetic only requiring no permitting, just fresh paint. I cannot find any information about the owners.

[pbeinetti]

Good information BLUEASH -- thanks. The building is listed on county records as a 'CHURCH', not an entertainment venue. Interesting!

Let me take one more stab at this -- perhaps I wasn't as clear in my writing as I am in my head. Gracie is right, why would I be concerned since the developer has a good track record of building nice town squares, etc. In the case of new building, such as town squares, I don't think there is any reason to be concerned. But, in the case of renovating, and perhaps significantly changing, something many, many of us have used and loved for years, it is concerning. ESPECIALLY because the developer has been very ambiguous about what he calls 'future programming' -- that is, how the new building will be used in the future. Like many of us who live in The Villages, I ran a large organization in my previous life. I believed in transparency -- no secrecy, no hiding, open kimona. The developer does not operate that way. Secrecy leads to suspicion. And in the case of the Church on the Square I think there is reason to be suspicious.

[graciegirl]

Good information BLUEASH -- thanks. The building is listed on county records as a 'CHURCH', not an entertainment venue. Interesting!

Let me take one more stab at this -- perhaps I wasn't as clear in my writing as I am in my head. Gracie is right, why would I be concerned since the developer has a good track record of building nice town squares, etc. In the case of new building, such as town squares, I don't think there is any reason to be concerned. But, in the case of renovating, and perhaps significantly changing, something many, many of us have used and loved for years, it is concerning. ESPECIALLY because the developer has been very ambiguous about what he calls 'future programming' -- that is, how the new building will be used in the future. Like many of us who live in The Villages, I ran a large organization in my previous life. I believed in transparency -- no secrecy, no hiding, open kimona. The developer does not operate that way. Secrecy leads to suspicion. And in the case of the Church on the Square I think there is reason to be suspicious.

Well said.

Now we will wait and see if the plans can be found and if they are doing it inside like a space ship what can be done to change that.

[Bonny]

Well said.

Now we will wait and see if the plans can be found and if they are doing it inside like a space ship what can be done to change that.
:clap2:

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I am wondering, if the Church on the Square has that one non denominational service per week does it qualify as Church under the IRS laws? Does the owner get a break on taxes? If so, why would he discontinue the services?

Maybe the services are being discontinued until the renovations on the building are complete.

[njbchbum]

I would like to move this thread back to what I originally wrote about -- the Church on the Square. Does anyone have any information about whether or not church services will be held in the future? Gracie says the 'church' was never built to be a church, but an entertainment venue. And, that no other church type activities are held there. Not exactly true. There are bible studies held at the Church on the Square, and many Christmas/holiday activities that are amplified by being held in a church. If Church on the Square isn't a church, but an entertainment venue, then it should not have been named a church from the beginning. My original post had to do with whether we are being told the straight scoop by the developer. His comment ...'you will have some of the same things you have now...' is very ambiguous, probably on purpose. One poster suggested I contact Janet Tutt, but Janet is no more than a mouthpiece for the developer. Does anyone have any information, or is this one of those things where we'll find out when it happens -- whether we like it or not? I hate to be cynical on this, but there are many, many people who are going to be very disappointed, and feeling hoodwinked, if the Church on the Square ends up not looking like a church, with no church services. Morse says they have an artist's rendition -- fine, share it with us now.

you posted, '...Janet is no more than a mouthpiece for the developer...' and you would rather take the unsubstantiated rumors that can be found on totv over the word of janet tutt? lol

perhaps you could do a search on totv for 'arts center' - there has been a fair amount of 'information' posted that re the developer's efforts to work with a group to more entertainment space - and as i recall some of the tales have referenced increasing the church on the square dimensions. you could start with this thread https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/big-news-performing-art-center-etc-32471/ and then realize how much has not happened since then!

[pbeinetti]

I am not asking for unsubstantiated rumors -- I have asked for factual information. I have had dealings with Janet Tutt and I don't believe she would give any information that has not already been shared by the developer. That being said, I do plan to contact her. The thread you provide I have seen before. It makes no mention of whether or not church services will continue. That is my question.

[redwitch]

I do remember reading an article in the POA newsletter about it. Sadly, can't remember all of it, but I did get the impression that there would no longer be church services after the renovation to a small performing arts center (all done with the developer's money). I'm sure someone can find the link for this article.

[Gerald]

The church's main purpose has always been as an entertainment venue. It was not built as a house of worship but as part of the scene of a Spanish town. It has always had just one non denominational service per week and no other church functions. It is being enlarged inside now and that is the reason for canceling the church service. I would be surprised if it didn't resume after the renovation. There has NEVER been fireworks here to my knowledge and the parades have been cancelled. There have always been disparaging remarks against almost all restaurants and many that I personally enjoy very much. I see nothing changing here. Same old, same old lovely place with lots to do.

I agree with what was said. Nothing has really changed. Sometimes people get upset when they do not know what is going on. The villages is and has always improved where it can. Updated places from pools to flowers to the squares. The bottom line is. Things are getting even better then before with more things to do and more beautiful eye candy all the time.

[OldManTime]

I have been in the Villages for 13 years, its a different place now, or maybe i'm 13 years older and see things differently. In the early days Harold Schwartz gave us so many things, that the grandchildren have taken away, but guess thats typical as to the vision of Harold vs the grandkids. I still say "Find me a better place to live, and i'll leave"..i'm still here.
As Skip0358 said, call Janet Tutt, she is responsive, honest, and up front, more than i can say about the grandchildren of Harold Schwartz.

[graciegirl]

If this was the point of the post it seems that many churches would offer the person in charge of this one non denominational service a place for it to be held in their building. OR... the OP could attend another service in another church for awhile and maybe like it as well. Or ask the leader to meet in one of the recreational facilities in the interim.

Or we could continue bashing the Morse family which I think is uncalled for.

There are dozens of churches with the full programs of churches, every flavor around here.

Doesn't seem very churchy to say mean things about someone who is trying to improve a building.

[looneycat]

I would like to move this thread back to what I originally wrote about -- the Church on the Square. Does anyone have any information about whether or not church services will be held in the future? Gracie says the 'church' was never built to be a church, but an entertainment venue. And, that no other church type activities are held there. Not exactly true. There are bible studies held at the Church on the Square, and many Christmas/holiday activities that are amplified by being held in a church. If Church on the Square isn't a church, but an entertainment venue, then it should not have been named a church from the beginning. My original post had to do with whether we are being told the straight scoop by the developer. His comment ...'you will have some of the same things you have now...' is very ambiguous, probably on purpose. One poster suggested I contact Janet Tutt, but Janet is no more than a mouthpiece for the developer. Does anyone have any information, or is this one of those things where we'll find out when it happens -- whether we like it or not? I hate to be cynical on this, but there are many, many people who are going to be very disappointed, and feeling hoodwinked, if the Church on the Square ends up not looking like a church, with no church services. Morse says they have an artist's rendition -- fine, share it with us now.

be disappointed, I am not Christian and am not represented in any way religiously in Villages maintained facilities. You're crying about a small doubt that services that represent one segment of the religious spectrum might disappear from one of the many christian facilities here? or that it just may not look like a church, really?? and not willing to make the one phone call that could answer the question? :blahblahblah:

[pbeinetti]

Looneycat, the Church on the Square is non denominational FYI. Yes, I can call Ms Tutt -- and, I will. As I said, I do not believe she will give any different info than has already been provided. Of course, other churches can take up the slack. But, the Church on the Square is special in many ways. If you haven't been there, you will not understand what I mean. The setting is beautiful, the music extraordinary, the rotating pastors do a fabulous job. Enough said! I asked to see if people had any input on whether services would be continued, and gave my opinion that it would be a shame if they are not -- and, that many people will be disappointed. Now I feel I'm starting to get bashed. I wasn't looking for that, nor expecting it. I'll explore this in other places. Bye!

[looneycat]

Looneycat, the Church on the Square is non denominational FYI. Yes, I can call Ms Tutt -- and, I will. As I said, I do not believe she will give any different info than has already been provided. Of course, other churches can take up the slack. But, the Church on the Square is special in many ways. If you haven't been there, you will not understand what I mean. The setting is beautiful, the music extraordinary, the rotating pastors do a fabulous job. Enough said! I asked to see if people had any input on whether services would be continued, and gave my opinion that it would be a shame if they are not -- and, that many people will be disappointed. Now I feel I'm starting to get bashed. I wasn't looking for that, nor expecting it. I'll explore this in other places. Bye!

a non denominational service run by christian pastors, that speaks of God in christian terms is not nondenominational, it just serves all the christian variations..uh, denominations, sorry. yes I've been there, nice building, it should make a great playhouse. as far as bashing, you asked for info you got the most expedient method for ascertaining an answer, over and out bucko! :MOJE_whot:

[Warren Kiefer]

The church's main purpose has always been as an entertainment venue. It was not built as a house of worship but as part of the scene of a Spanish town. It has always had just one non denominational service per week and no other church functions. It is being enlarged inside now and that is the reason for canceling the church service. I would be surprised if it didn't resume after the renovation. There has NEVER been fireworks here to my knowledge and the parades have been cancelled. There have always been disparaging remarks against almost all restaurants and many that I personally enjoy very much. I see nothing changing here. Same old, same old lovely place with lots to do.

I wish I had more facts but this is my understanding, It would be a stretch noto say it was built as a house of worship. Is it not true that the church orginally observed Episcopalian services, the religion practiced by the Schwartz family ?? And how could anyone step inside the building and nmot deem it a house of worship?? The stained glass windows, the pew seating the huge pipe organ, the belfry bells speak to anyone that this is truly a church. I am sorry but I cannot agree that the Church on the Square was built as an entertainment venue. There have been some great sermons preached in that building. I admit there was no active congregation as we find in most churches, but I have heard more praying in this church than a lot of other churches.

[Indydealmaker]

I would like to move this thread back to what I originally wrote about -- the Church on the Square. Does anyone have any information about whether or not church services will be held in the future? Gracie says the 'church' was never built to be a church, but an entertainment venue. And, that no other church type activities are held there. Not exactly true. There are bible studies held at the Church on the Square, and many Christmas/holiday activities that are amplified by being held in a church. If Church on the Square isn't a church, but an entertainment venue, then it should not have been named a church from the beginning. My original post had to do with whether we are being told the straight scoop by the developer. His comment ...'you will have some of the same things you have now...' is very ambiguous, probably on purpose. One poster suggested I contact Janet Tutt, but Janet is no more than a mouthpiece for the developer. Does anyone have any information, or is this one of those things where we'll find out when it happens -- whether we like it or not? I hate to be cynical on this, but there are many, many people who are going to be very disappointed, and feeling hoodwinked, if the Church on the Square ends up not looking like a church, with no church services. Morse says they have an artist's rendition -- fine, share it with us now.
That "mouthpiece" that you refer to is the Villages manager. She is more in the know than any of the hundreds of people that report to her. If she cannot advise you, then Morris certainly is not going to. These people run a business. They do not owe you or anyone else a heads up.

I think many people have moved here with a totally unrealistic set of expectations. This is a manufactured community. Manufactured by The Villages to make money. The offerings necessary to induce you to buy are all in your documents. All other expectations are "assumed". The offerings here will ebb and flow as is necessary to make money. The basic amenities are paid for by your fees. Maintenance is also paid for by your fees. Your executive golf is free. All other amenities such as entertainment on the squares, parades, etc. will continue as long as the business flows to the merchants. The type of businesses that are here will be dependent upon whether they can be survive and thrive on business primarily from The Villages residents. If not, they will be gone and someone else will give it a shot.

Long story short; you are not moving into a community with guarantees that nothing will ever change. Costs will increase just like outside of the imaginary bubble. The changes at the church were at the request of many people here who wanted an additional high caliber entertainment venue. The developer has agreed to make these changes with his own dollar. How much more can you ask?

[Ragman]

We recently stopped by COTS with friends and the gentleman at the church said the new venue would be built next door where the little park is now. The entrance would be at the same location and guests would walk to the right down a walkway. The new venue will have conventional theater seating.

The church would remain with reduced seating, but not be used for entertainment; services may be held as well as rented for weddings, etc.

Not saying these are absolute facts,but sounds reasonable.

He said church was originally Episcopal and the organ is electric with fake pipes( fooled me).

[CFrance]

a non denominational service run by christian pastors, that speaks of God in christian terms is not nondenominational, it just serves all the christian variations..uh, denominations, sorry. yes I've been there, nice building, it should make a great playhouse. as far as bashing, you asked for info you got the most expedient method for ascertaining an answer, over and out bucko! :MOJE_whot:

I beg to differ:

Non-denominational is a term that indicates that a person or organisation is not restricted to any particular or specific religious denomination. The term has been used in the context of various faiths including Jainism,[1] Baha'i Faith,[2] Zoroastrianism,[3] Islam,[4] Christianity,[5] Judaism,[6] Hinduism,[7] Buddhism[8] and Wicca.[9] It stands in contrast with a religious denomination.

[OldManTime]

The Chruch on the Square now belongs to a non-profit called "Abundant Life Ministries inc" and doubt if services will be suspended.

P.S. stilled controlled by the Morse family.

[Bonny]

That "mouthpiece" that you refer to is the Villages manager. She is more in the know than any of the hundreds of people that report to her. If she cannot advise you, then Morris certainly is not going to. These people run a business. They do not owe you or anyone else a heads up.

I think many people have moved here with a totally unrealistic set of expectations. This is a manufactured community. Manufactured by The Villages to make money. The offerings necessary to induce you to buy are all in your documents. All other expectations are "assumed". The offerings here will ebb and flow as is necessary to make money. The basic amenities are paid for by your fees. Maintenance is also paid for by your fees. Your executive golf is free. All other amenities such as entertainment on the squares, parades, etc. will continue as long as the business flows to the merchants. The type of businesses that are here will be dependent upon whether they can be survive and thrive on business primarily from The Villages residents. If not, they will be gone and someone else will give it a shot.

Long story short; you are not moving into a community with guarantees that nothing will ever change. Costs will increase just like outside of the imaginary bubble. The changes at the church were at the request of many people here who wanted an additional high caliber entertainment venue. The developer has agreed to make these changes with his own dollar. How much more can you ask?
OMG !!! This is one of the best posts I have seen on here for a long time !!! Awesome ! Thank you ! Well spoken ! :BigApplause:

[OldManTime]

Stay on the subject chilout

[blueash]

Question was asked whether if services are eliminated, would that change the tax-free status of the building as it was no longer used as a "church"? No. Any property owned by a church is also tax-free. The wisdom and constitutionality of this has been challenged and the courts have upheld tax-free status. Nice (off topic) review of the issue at Churches and Taxes - ProCon.org (http://churchesandtaxes.procon.org/#pro_con)

[graciegirl]

I still say it isn't a traditional church and was not built to be a traditional church and has a series of different speakers once a week. I think that this isn't as big an issue if it were a real church community with a lot of clubs and organizations and outreach projects and with several services a week and with the same leaders. I do not take away from the real people listening to a real speaker once a week but since the speakers change weekly, it doesn't seem to be a leap to suggest that if it is not available for a time or forever the congregants could find another person to listen to.

I think I just dangled a participle. I hope I didn't **** anyone off.

And maybe it has tax exempt status???

[rji4072]

The original question is will there still be church services, and it still seems unclear. I for one will miss them greatly and so will hundreds of others that pack the church each sunday, standing room only during high season, and more true worship going on there than many traditional churches, there r going to be a lot of upset snowbirds when they come back roy

[njbchbum]

The original question is will there still be church services, and it still seems unclear. I for one will miss them greatly and so will hundreds of others that pack the church each sunday, standing room only during high season, and more true worship going on there than many traditional churches, there r going to be a lot of upset snowbirds when they come back roy


the op posted, "I was at the service today, and the guest singers both said 'good bye'. The pastor also said good bye. I asked him on the way out if there will be no more church services, and he said yes, that's his understanding." that made it pretty clear to me that the church services are history.

and re the statement in your post, '...more true worship going on there than many traditional churches...' am wondering on what basis you make that statement. have you done a study of same? can/will you please identify those traditional churches? is it your mere opinion based on nothing or something you can document?

[pbeinetti]

I did check with Janet Tutt to see what she knows about the future of church services at the renovated Church on the Square, and she responded that she did not know, and that she is not the person to contact on that question. She forwarded my email to Gary Lester, who is The Villages VP PR. He responded that no decisions have been made about how the renovated Church on the Square will be used in the future. I then went back to him again, and asked if the renovation will continue to look like a church, and while no decisions have been made per his previous email, is there at least an intent to use the building for church services. He came back to me and said he can't add any further information, and to read the Daily Sun for future information. Gary Lester was/is a director of Abundant Life Ministries, the organization that ran the church services at Church on the Square, and was the founding pastor of North lake Presbyterian Church. He was brought to The Villages in 1999 to be Spiritual Life Director. I suspect it was he who was initially responsible for the church services at the Church on the Square -- although, I personally do not know when those services started. I would hope that he still would be very supportive of having services at the renovated Church on the Square. If anyone wants to contact Gary and let him know your interest in continuing to have church services at the renovated Church on the Square, he can be contacted at gary.lester@thevillages.com.

[wendyquat]

Just wondering if they took an offering during Sunday services? If so, I'd bet they will be looking to replenish those coffers after completion of the renovations!:pray:

[CFrance]

All the evasiveness doesn't bode well for the future of the church service, I'm afraid.

[downeaster]

This is an interesting thread. OP asks question and 26 responses later OP answers own question.

[memason]

This is an interesting thread. OP asks question and 26 responses later OP answers own question.

Only proves you should ask the question to the person or persons that can answer your question in the first place. Sometimes [most times] it's better to go right to the source.

[pbeinetti]

My purpose for posting on TOTV was to see if anyone had any useful information regarding the subject, and to get a flavor for how others feel about the situation. I had a pretty good idea that TV would not provide any information, even though it's highly likely they know the answers. Clearly they know if the renovated building will look like a church. Renderings have been completed months ago, and renovation begins in a few weeks. But, as Gary Lester says, we'll find out someday in the newspaper. For those of us who have enjoyed the church services at the Church on the Square, we'll keep our fingers crossed!

[graciegirl]

My purpose for posting on TOTV was to see if anyone had any useful information regarding the subject, and to get a flavor for how others feel about the situation. I had a pretty good idea that TV would not provide any information, even though it's highly likely they know the answers. Clearly they know if the renovated building will look like a church. Renderings have been completed months ago, and renovation begins in a few weeks. But, as Gary Lester says, we'll find out someday in the newspaper. For those of us who have enjoyed the church services at the Church on the Square, we'll keep our fingers crossed!


I still don't understand why it is so important to know exactly what is happening about the Church on the square. By the time that the church is reopened the OP may have found another venue for worship that he likes. Many of us have gone through this when churches have been closed or a beloved leader dies or is moved to another church..

As for The Villages, by now most of us can see that is the way they do business. It appears to work well for them. I would hate to be in charge of anything for The Villages. Although things are wonderful here there are always those who want to tell them how they want things done. There are about 100,000 of us with our own good ideas. No wonder we never see Gary Morse. I would hide too and play close to the vest if I were him.

I imagine it will all work out and everyone will be reasonably happy in the end.

[Baci514]

Santiago was good until the couple running it sold out to another couple. It appeared to be absentee management. The food went downhill. The waitresses had to run the place and do some cooking also. It had been a great place.

[JessBess]

Hi, I've been living in TV both during/after "Buffalo" roaming here. Even 'tho a large sign said "DO NOT FEED/TOUCH the wild animals, many visitors did just that & someone got bitten. (no wonder...) So, to avoid further incidents & lawsuits....Buffalo were moved to protect them & overanxious visitors. I think it's still great living here after 8yrs. & I visited many communities before deciding on TV; one solution....if you don't like it here....You can move!

[OldManTime]

Trust me, with Rev.GaryLester as the man behind the church, there will be services, i would bet my next born child on that.

[delpi767]

Everyone is going to have things they like and don't like about TV. Everyone. You can tell a lot about one's disposition by which they dwell on.

I can't imagine living anywhere else.

[looneycat]

I beg to differ:

Non-denominational is a term that indicates that a person or organisation is not restricted to any particular or specific religious denomination. The term has been used in the context of various faiths including Jainism,[1] Baha'i Faith,[2] Zoroastrianism,[3] Islam,[4] Christianity,[5] Judaism,[6] Hinduism,[7] Buddhism[8] and Wicca.[9] It stands in contrast with a religious denomination.

You can beg all you want, a definition is only as good as the setting, show me where the non denominational services in the villages church on the square address the religious beliefs of Jainism,[1] Baha'i Faith,[2] Zoroastrianism,[3] Islam,[4] Judaism,[6] Hinduism,[7] Buddhism[8] and Wicca.[9]. in fact some would be offended by the service. the common usage is to address all the forms of christian beliefs, at the 'church' in this thread, it has a cross on top for Christ's sake, but anyone can be purposely obtuse, if they so please...

[graciegirl]

Everyone is going to have things they like and don't like about TV. Everyone. You can tell a lot about one's disposition by which they dwell on.

I can't imagine living anywhere else.

I like this answer a lot. I can tell just by this answer that you are someone I would like to know better.

[billethkid]

I like this answer a lot. I can tell just by this answer that you are someone I would like to know better.

A very appropriate response for very many posts and subjects that are exercised here daily. So concise and accurate.

btk

[SusanOfWoodbury]

I know the church on the square is closed, but, does anyone know why the bells are no longing ringing?

[nitehawk]

I know the church on the square is closed, but, does anyone know why the bells are no longing ringing?

If there is no football game the stands are empty so there is no cheering