Pope Francis

[Golfingnut]

Pope Pope Francis bluntly said the Catholic Church's moral edifice might fall if it doesn't balance its divisive rules with the need to make the church a welcoming place.

Can we get a combined: ITS ABOUT TIME

[graciegirl]

Pope Pope Francis bluntly said the Catholic Church's moral edifice might fall if it doesn't balance its divisive rules with the need to make the church a welcoming place.

Can we get a combined: ITS ABOUT TIME

Don't expect miracles, but he acts like a Christian is supposed to, that boy.

[alanmcdonald]

One could ask the classic question here:

Is the Pope Catholic?

[redwitch]

Well past time.

[Challenger]

If this guy had been aroud 1000 years ago , there may have been no need for the Protestant Reformation.

[bkcunningham1]

On himself

Yes, perhaps I can say that I am a bit astute, that I can adapt to circumstances, but it is also true that I am a bit naïve. Yes, but the best summary, the one that comes more from the inside and I feel most true is this: I am a sinner whom the Lord has looked upon.

On homosexuality

During the return flight from Rio de Janeiro I said that if a homosexual person is of good will and is in search of God, I am no one to judge. By saying this, I said what the catechism says. Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but God in creation has set us free: it is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person.

On abortion

We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.

On the vow of chastity

Religious men and women are prophets. They are those who have chosen a following of Jesus that imitates his life in obedience to the Father, poverty, community life and chastity. In this sense, the vows cannot end up being caricatures; otherwise, for example, community life becomes hell, and chastity becomes a way of life for unfruitful bachelors. The vow of chastity must be a vow of fruitfulness.

On women in the church

Women are asking deep questions that must be addressed. The church cannot be herself without the woman and her role. The woman is essential for the church. Mary, a woman, is more important than the bishops. I say this because we must not confuse the function with the dignity. We must therefore investigate further the role of women in the church. We have to work harder to develop a profound theology of the woman.

On the Society of Jesus (the Jesuits)

The Society of Jesus is an institution in tension, always fundamentally in tension. A Jesuit is a person who is not centered in himself. The Society itself also looks to a center outside itself; its center is Christ and his church. … But it is difficult to speak of the Society. When you express too much, you run the risk of being misunderstood. The Society of Jesus can be described only in narrative form. Only in narrative form do you discern, not in a philosophical or theological explanation, which allows you rather to discuss.

On being a Jesuit

Three things in particular struck me about the Society: the missionary spirit, community and discipline. And this is strange, because I am a really, really undisciplined person. But their discipline, the way they manage their time—these things struck me so much.

And then a thing that is really important for me: community. I was always looking for a community. I did not see myself as a priest on my own. The papal apartment in the Apostolic Palace is not luxurious … It is big and spacious, but the entrance is really tight. People can come only in dribs and drabs, and I cannot live without people. I need to live my life with others.

On his style of authority

My style of government as a Jesuit at the beginning had many faults. That was a difficult time for the Society: an entire generation of Jesuits had disappeared.

Because of this I found myself provincial when I was still very young. I was only 36 years old. That was crazy. I had to deal with difficult situations, and I made my decisions abruptly and by myself. Yes, but I must add one thing: when I entrust something to someone, I totally trust that person. He or she must make a really big mistake before I rebuke that person.

But despite this, eventually people get tired of authoritarianism. … To be sure, I have never been like Blessed Imelda [a goody-goody], but I have never been a right-winger. It was my authoritarian way of making decisions that created problems.

On the church as a healer

The thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle."I see clearly that the thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle. It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars!

On the Second Vatican Council reforms

Vatican II was a re-reading of the Gospel in light of contemporary culture. Vatican II produced a renewal movement that simply comes from the same Gospel. Its fruits are enormous. Just recall the liturgy. The work of liturgical reform has been a service to the people as a re-reading of the Gospel from a concrete historical situation.

Yes, there are hermeneutics of continuity and discontinuity, but one thing is clear: the dynamic of reading the Gospel, actualizing its message for today – which was typical of Vatican II – is absolutely irreversible.

On uncertainty and God

Yes, in this quest to seek and find God in all things there is still an area of uncertainty. There must be. If a person says that he met God with total certainty and is not touched by a margin of uncertainty, then this is not good. For me, this is an important key. If one has the answers to all the questions -that is the proof that God is not with him. It means that he is a false prophet using religion for himself.

The great leaders of the people of God, like Moses, have always left room for doubt. You must leave room for the Lord, not for our certainties; we must be humble. Uncertainty is in every true discernment that is open to finding confirmation in spiritual consolation.



Pope Francis: 'I am a sinner whom the Lord has looked upon' | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/19/pope-francis-highlights-interview-america)

[Golfingnut]

Pope Francis is practicing SERMON ON THE MOUNT style guidance. I see that as a good thing.

[Taltarzac725]

Pope Francis is practicing SERMON ON THE MOUNT style guidance. I see that as a good thing.

I agree. It is about time that the Catholic Church got back to the profound teachings of Jesus Christ rather than the various much more worldly manipulations of the church-state. It seems so much more spiritual while also actually aiming at the type of life Jesus himself tried to live.

[graciegirl]

On himself

Yes, perhaps I can say that I am a bit astute, that I can adapt to circumstances, but it is also true that I am a bit naïve. Yes, but the best summary, the one that comes more from the inside and I feel most true is this: I am a sinner whom the Lord has looked upon.

On homosexuality

During the return flight from Rio de Janeiro I said that if a homosexual person is of good will and is in search of God, I am no one to judge. By saying this, I said what the catechism says. Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but God in creation has set us free: it is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person.

On abortion

We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.

On the vow of chastity

Religious men and women are prophets. They are those who have chosen a following of Jesus that imitates his life in obedience to the Father, poverty, community life and chastity. In this sense, the vows cannot end up being caricatures; otherwise, for example, community life becomes hell, and chastity becomes a way of life for unfruitful bachelors. The vow of chastity must be a vow of fruitfulness.

On women in the church

Women are asking deep questions that must be addressed. The church cannot be herself without the woman and her role. The woman is essential for the church. Mary, a woman, is more important than the bishops. I say this because we must not confuse the function with the dignity. We must therefore investigate further the role of women in the church. We have to work harder to develop a profound theology of the woman.

On the Society of Jesus (the Jesuits)

The Society of Jesus is an institution in tension, always fundamentally in tension. A Jesuit is a person who is not centered in himself. The Society itself also looks to a center outside itself; its center is Christ and his church. … But it is difficult to speak of the Society. When you express too much, you run the risk of being misunderstood. The Society of Jesus can be described only in narrative form. Only in narrative form do you discern, not in a philosophical or theological explanation, which allows you rather to discuss.

On being a Jesuit

Three things in particular struck me about the Society: the missionary spirit, community and discipline. And this is strange, because I am a really, really undisciplined person. But their discipline, the way they manage their time—these things struck me so much.

And then a thing that is really important for me: community. I was always looking for a community. I did not see myself as a priest on my own. The papal apartment in the Apostolic Palace is not luxurious … It is big and spacious, but the entrance is really tight. People can come only in dribs and drabs, and I cannot live without people. I need to live my life with others.

On his style of authority

My style of government as a Jesuit at the beginning had many faults. That was a difficult time for the Society: an entire generation of Jesuits had disappeared.

Because of this I found myself provincial when I was still very young. I was only 36 years old. That was crazy. I had to deal with difficult situations, and I made my decisions abruptly and by myself. Yes, but I must add one thing: when I entrust something to someone, I totally trust that person. He or she must make a really big mistake before I rebuke that person.

But despite this, eventually people get tired of authoritarianism. … To be sure, I have never been like Blessed Imelda [a goody-goody], but I have never been a right-winger. It was my authoritarian way of making decisions that created problems.

On the church as a healer

The thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle."I see clearly that the thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle. It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars!

On the Second Vatican Council reforms

Vatican II was a re-reading of the Gospel in light of contemporary culture. Vatican II produced a renewal movement that simply comes from the same Gospel. Its fruits are enormous. Just recall the liturgy. The work of liturgical reform has been a service to the people as a re-reading of the Gospel from a concrete historical situation.

Yes, there are hermeneutics of continuity and discontinuity, but one thing is clear: the dynamic of reading the Gospel, actualizing its message for today – which was typical of Vatican II – is absolutely irreversible.

On uncertainty and God

Yes, in this quest to seek and find God in all things there is still an area of uncertainty. There must be. If a person says that he met God with total certainty and is not touched by a margin of uncertainty, then this is not good. For me, this is an important key. If one has the answers to all the questions -that is the proof that God is not with him. It means that he is a false prophet using religion for himself.

The great leaders of the people of God, like Moses, have always left room for doubt. You must leave room for the Lord, not for our certainties; we must be humble. Uncertainty is in every true discernment that is open to finding confirmation in spiritual consolation.



Pope Francis: 'I am a sinner whom the Lord has looked upon' | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/19/pope-francis-highlights-interview-america)

BK, I honor you. I think I remember that you are not a Catholic but another kind of Christian from me, yet you have kindly and fairly posted something that brings understanding to all of us.

I love you, girl.

[Xavier]

Can I get an "AMEN?" Go Franny Go! Yea Lord!

Xavier

[DaleMN]

Definitely gets an "Attaboy" from me but I'm certain he is causing a lot of angst among the ranks. :doh:

[Xavier]

Definitely gets an "Attaboy" from me but I'm certain he is causing a lot of angst among the ranks. :doh:

Angst can be good thing. Maybe it'll help sling-shot them into the 21st century and out of the dark ages. There is nothing I'd like more than to feel comfortable in the church I was brought up in.

Xavier

[graciegirl]

Angst can be good thing. Maybe it'll help sling-shot them into the 21st century and out of the dark ages. There is nothing I'd like more than to feel comfortable in the church I was brought up in.

Xavier

Me too. Those Jesuits are thinkers, aren't they?

[jean1954]

Pope Pope Francis bluntly said the Catholic Church's moral edifice might fall if it doesn't balance its divisive rules with the need to make the church a welcoming place.

Can we get a combined: ITS ABOUT TIME

I agree! Amen.

[billethkid]

We shall see. As we continually witness our other "leaders", words alone do not make it so��

btk

[Xavier]

We shall see. As we continually witness our other "leaders", words alone do not make it so��

btk

What, pray tell, could you be talking about? Could it be the inability of parties to work together to form a common leadership. Oh dear, what a unique concept. You really only need to be familiar with three words: YES, NO, and Maybe. The easiest of the three is NO. The others require some flexibility and thought. Let us pray. Amen.

Xavier

[ilovetv]

I agree. It is about time that the Catholic Church got back to the profound teachings of Jesus Christ rather than the various much more worldly manipulations of the church-state. It seems so much more spiritual while also actually aiming at the type of life Jesus himself tried to live.

I agree also. It IS about time!

The face of the Church and the door to the Church has to be Jesus Christ, NOT mere mortals who make themselves a KGB force whose mission is to form a select group in a hunkered-down enclave of "orthodox", self-righteous people focused on man-made religion and polishing their halos because of their exagerrated piety.

Their proud piety makes them no more acceptable in God's presence than any other slob who believes in Christ and clings to Him for forgiveness and salvation in eternity.

Human pride and false pretenses about it are always a ticket to downward spiral, beginning with Adam and Eve.

[Xavier]

I agree also. It IS about time!

The face of the Church and the door to the Church has to be Jesus Christ, NOT mere mortals who make themselves a KGB force whose mission is to form a select group in a hunkered-down enclave of "orthodox", self-righteous people focused on man-made religion and polishing their halos because of their exagerrated piety.

Their proud piety makes them no more acceptable in God's presence than any other slob who believes in Christ and clings to Him for forgiveness and salvation in eternity.

Human pride and false pretenses about it are always a ticket to downward spiral, beginning with Adam and Eve.

Yikes! You shouldn't hold-back like that - let it out woman. Let it all out. You'll feel so much better.

Xavier

[graciegirl]

Yikes! You shouldn't hold-back like that - let it out man. Let it all out. You'll feel so much better.

Xavier

Um...she's a girl.

and if you don't stop bickering, I'm tellin' sister.

[kittygilchrist]

I agree also. It IS about time!

The face of the Church and the door to the Church has to be Jesus Christ, NOT mere mortals who make themselves a KGB force whose mission is to form a select group in a hunkered-down enclave of "orthodox", self-righteous people focused on man-made religion and polishing their halos because of their exagerrated piety.

Their proud piety makes them no more acceptable in God's presence than any other slob who believes in Christ and clings to Him for forgiveness and salvation in eternity.

Human pride and false pretenses about it are always a ticket to downward spiral, beginning with Adam and Eve.

Amen, sister sinner, I too confess pride and arrogance and judging people.
Kitty, "slob who believes in Christ and clings to Him for forgiveness and salvation in eternity."
ps God bless the Pope for carefully expressing love for sinners. I think he knows he's one of us; he's only human.

[Xavier]

Um...she's a girl.

and if you don't stop bickering, I'm tellin' sister.

...change of gender noted in previous post. Please don't tell on me, Gracie.

Xavier

[ilovetv]

Yikes! You shouldn't hold-back like that - let it out woman. Let it all out. You'll feel so much better.

Xavier

Yikes?

Christ's Passion has evoked passionate responses for thousands of years.

Thank goodness the pope is not dispassionate.

[bkcunningham1]

Amen, sister sinner, I too confess pride and arrogance and judging people.
Kitty, "slob who believes in Christ and clings to Him for forgiveness and salvation in eternity."
ps God bless the Pope for carefully expressing love for sinners. I think he knows he's one of us; he's only human.

Yes. Amazing Grace.

[chachacha]

i don't think any popes recently have implied that they were not sinners...Pope Francis is getting to the heart of what Christianity requires, love for ALL of our fellow human beings. this does not imply that he thinks abortion or same-sex marriage is desirable or biblical, he just wisely wants us to focus on loving one another. i love the part about asking a wounded man on a battlefield if his sugar is high! there is so much more to every person than their sins. please find something to love about me and i will try to do the same for everyone else.

[graciegirl]

i don't think any popes recently have implied that they were not sinners...Pope Francis is getting to the heart of what Christianity requires, love for ALL of our fellow human beings. this does not imply that he thinks abortion or same-sex marriage is desirable or biblical, he just wisely wants us to focus on loving one another. i love the part about asking a wounded man on a battlefield if his sugar is high! there is so much more to every person than their sins. please find something to love about me and i will try to do the same for everyone else.


THAT is easy, Cha!

[Challenger]

Please Lord give me mercy, justice will fall way short in my case.

[billethkid]

i don't think any popes recently have implied that they were not sinners...Pope Francis is getting to the heart of what Christianity requires, love for ALL of our fellow human beings. this does not imply that he thinks abortion or same-sex marriage is desirable or biblical, he just wisely wants us to focus on loving one another. i love the part about asking a wounded man on a battlefield if his sugar is high! there is so much more to every person than their sins. please find something to love about me and i will try to do the same for everyone else.

the most accurate post on the subject to date!!

btk

[bkcunningham1]

i don't think any popes recently have implied that they were not sinners...Pope Francis is getting to the heart of what Christianity requires, love for ALL of our fellow human beings. this does not imply that he thinks abortion or same-sex marriage is desirable or biblical, he just wisely wants us to focus on loving one another. i love the part about asking a wounded man on a battlefield if his sugar is high! there is so much more to every person than their sins. please find something to love about me and i will try to do the same for everyone else.

I love the kindness you show everyone. You have a spirit of knowledge and grace that always makes me feel good.

[rubicon]

In my view the Pope took the politically correct path and it is exactly why society will never have the serious conversation it needs on these complex issues. I mean who is going to argue with "Jesus loves us all" On the other hand the bible explains the genesis of sodomy So who you gonna believe?

M prediction is if this Pope continues down the same path may well create a second Reformation

[PennBF]

One time a member of the church where my father was a preacher asked our mother why she was a member of our denomination and religion and my mother said "because I was raised that way". I think that speaks a thousand. We are all raised in a religion and in 99.999% of the cases that is what we follow for our lives. In some cases people don't actually know why they are different from another denomination. We should all respect the other person's religion and remember to follow the golden rule. :read:

[kittygilchrist]

i don't think any popes recently have implied that they were not sinners...Pope Francis is getting to the heart of what Christianity requires, love for ALL of our fellow human beings. this does not imply that he thinks abortion or same-sex marriage is desirable or biblical, he just wisely wants us to focus on loving one another. i love the part about asking a wounded man on a battlefield if his sugar is high! there is so much more to every person than their sins. please find something to love about me and i will try to do the same for everyone else.

I haven't found anything I don't love about you. Your walk with God and selflessness are an example to everyone. I am blessed that we are friends.
Kitty

[kittygilchrist]

Please Lord give me mercy, justice will fall way short in my case.

"Mercy triumphs over judgment."

[chachacha]

In my view the Pope took the politically correct path and it is exactly why society will never have the serious conversation it needs on these complex issues. I mean who is going to argue with "Jesus loves us all" On the other hand the bible explains the genesis of sodomy So who you gonna believe?

M prediction is if this Pope continues down the same path may well create a second Reformation

rubicon, you are one of the posters i most respect on this forum...but this is only one statement by this pope. he also made a statement about our obligation to be involved in politics because politics accomplishes the good of the people. i am sure he is not being politically correct on these issues and he emphasizes that he is a son of the church and upholds the teachings of the church. i think he just believes we attract more flies with sugar than with vinegar :) saving souls requires first attracting them to Christ's grace.
that is the mandate of the Church, after all. Let them come unto Me! and thank you my friends for your kind words....

[Bavarian]

The words of Pope Francis have been distorted by the secular press. He did not say the Church would allow abortion, Euthanasia, artificial contraception, homosexual acts, etc. He just reiterated what we always have known: sins can be forgiven in Confession through a priest. But one of the prime promises a penitent must make to obtain absolution is to not commit the sin again, just like the women adulterer who was going to be stoned and He forgave her sin.

I miss Pope Benedict XVI, ein Bayr

[woody3]

Is he the last Pope?? ?Woody3

[gemorc]

All the negative response from inside the Catholic Church so far, has come from the conservative leaning theologians and educators. So much to my surprise, the term politically correct, is being used to describe Pope Francis.

[graciegirl]

[..

[CFrance]

Chachacha, you and the Pope rock.

[BigB46]

BK, I honor you. I think I remember that you are not a Catholic but another kind of Christian from me, yet you have kindly and fairly posted something that brings understanding to all of us.

I love you, girl.

It is good to see this kind of questioning and comments. As a practicing Catholic, I understand the difference between a Cafeteria Catholic and a Practicing Catholic. When one enters a cafeteria, there are a whole world of choices, pick and choose. Whereas, Practicing Catholics follow the precepts of the Catholic Church, period. Our Pope has redefined the heart and soul of what a Catholic should be: one faithful to the dogma and eager to follow in Christ's footsteps. For Catholics, the center of our faith is the Eucharist, the Pope, the Magesterium, the Sacraments, and our Catholic tradition. And, as practicing Catholics, our vision should be outward, not and inward faith.

[2BNTV]

IMHO - Pope Francis is trying to bring the Catholic Church into the 21st century.

Greatest commandment is, "to love your GOD with all your heart".

Second greatest commandment is, "to love one another, as I have loved you".

[zonerboy]

For Catholics, the center of our faith is the Eucharist, the Pope, the Magesterium, the Sacraments, and our Catholic tradition.

As an admitted "cafeteria Catholic", I would place God first, ahead of all the items on your particular list, as the focus of my faith.

[eweissenbach]

IMHO - Pope Francis is trying to bring the Catholic Church into the 21st century.

Greatest commandment is, "to love your GOD with all your heart".

Second greatest commandment is, "to love one another, as I have loved you".

I am not Catholic, but I like the way you think Joe.

[ron122049]

It's about time...from a very disillusioned former Catholic.

[eweissenbach]

I have a hard time understanding how Catholics in many diocese can continue to support the church financially when they are paying millions of dollars to victims of abuse by clergy. In Kansas City Bishop Finn has been convicted - let me repeat - CONVICTED - of failure to report known instances of abuse, yet he remains the Bishop of the Kansas City/St. Joseph diocese. I have talked with some Catholic friends and asked how this can be, when Joe Paterno, a mere football coach, was run out of his job by press and public opinion, for allegedly not doing "enough", even after he reported the single case he was aware of to his superiors? The head of a large religious organization covered up abuse by priests under his direction and he remains in a job supposedly requiring near purity? It would seem logical to me that if the Catholic Church wants to clean up its act and its reputation, it needs to a. get rid of ALL the people in its official positions that have had anything to do with the abuse cases, and b. get rid of the ridiculous requirement of chastity in the priesthood, which would appear to anyone with common sense to be a factor in attracting potential pedophiles or turning certain men into pedophiles.

[graciegirl]

I have a hard time understanding how Catholics in many diocese can continue to support the church financially when they are paying millions of dollars to victims of abuse by clergy. In Kansas City Bishop Finn has been convicted - let me repeat - CONVICTED - of failure to report known instances of abuse, yet he remains the Bishop of the Kansas City/St. Joseph diocese. I have talked with some Catholic friends and asked how this can be, when Joe Paterno, a mere football coach, was run out of his job by press and public opinion, for allegedly not doing "enough", even after he reported the single case he was aware of to his superiors? The head of a large religious organization covered up abuse by priests under his direction and he remains in a job supposedly requiring near purity? It would seem logical to me that if the Catholic Church wants to clean up its act and its reputation, it needs to a. get rid of ALL the people in its official positions that have had anything to do with the abuse cases, and b. get rid of the ridiculous requirement of chastity in the priesthood, which would appear to anyone with common sense to be a factor in attracting potential pedophiles or turning certain men into pedophiles.





Because Ed, there is a huge difference between the "institutional" church and the community of God.


It is a huge shame and a terrible thing, the abuse of children and especially from those who wear the cloak of the clergy... but it isn't the center of our faith. It isn't the heart of our religion. It isn't the reason we go to church.


We go to church because we love God and find His presence there.


Should we stop?


Sometimes I attend daily Mass. It is a beautiful thing to enter the quiet church in the morning and find several hundred people there on their knees. I am guessing that they are saying please and thank you. It is the faith they have clung to for their entire life.


This morning was the funeral of a 93 year old man who had been married to his wife for 68 years. She was in the front pew as we all celebrated his life.


There is still good in the Catholic Church. Just as there is much good in all churches. I am sure you feel love toward your own church. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.


These are just my own personal feelings.

[Golfingnut]

If I was in charge, I would prosecute the priests for their crimes and would not cover them up just because the say they are faithful to the will of God. They should have exaggerated punishment, but for some reason beyond my comprehension, they are apparently forgiven for their indiscretions and simply moved to a new Parrish with a fresh crop of innocent children. If that is Gods will, OK, but if that is not Gods will, hold them accountable for their perversions and crimes.

[eweissenbach]

Because Ed, there is a huge difference between the "institutional" church and the community of God.


It is a huge shame and a terrible thing, the abuse of children and especially from those who wear the cloak of the clergy... but it isn't the center of our faith. It isn't the heart of our religion. It isn't the reason we go to church.


We go to church because we love God and find His presence there.


Should we stop?


Sometimes I attend daily Mass. It is a beautiful thing to enter the quiet church in the morning and find several hundred people there on their knees. I am guessing that they are saying please and thank you. It is the faith they have clung to for their entire life.


This morning was the funeral of a 93 year old man who had been married to his wife for 68 years. She was in the front pew as we all celebrated his life.


There is still good in the Catholic Church. Just as there is much good in all churches. I am sure you feel love toward your own church. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.


These are just my own personal feelings.

And your lovely personal feelings do not in any way contradict what I said. I did not advocate giving up on your church, but think you would agree that there has been a huge problem, which should be addressed. If the church has served you well, and the priests in your parishes have been Godly and righteous then you should, by all means, support their ministry. I try to couch my opinions with qualifiers, such as "in my opinion", or "if it were up to me", etc., and never expect that everyone will or should agree with me. I get spiritual nourishment from my church, but I don't think either the church hierarchy or the people in charge locally are anything other than well-meaning people who felt moved to pursue a career in organized religion. They are not infallible, and if they are not serving the Lord and their congregation, they should be fired. I have moved denominations before, and would not hesitate to do so again if I felt it was warrented.

[chachacha]

As an admitted "cafeteria Catholic", I would place God first, ahead of all the items on your particular list, as the focus of my faith.

The Eucharist, the first thing on that list, IS the body and blood of Christ. that puts God first on our list for us. everything about that list is designed to bring one closer to God.

[mrfixit]

HMM...so they got rid of Pope Benedict who "Actively"
COVERED UP the reports on child molester priests.

Then they elevate Cardinal Bergoglio as Pope Francis.
He did not COVER UP the abuse cases..........
............he simply IGNORED the facts and covered his ears
and pretended the abuse was not happening.

Database of Priests Accused of Sexual Abuse (http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbydiocese.html)

You can find the 3300 "listed" priests on......

www.bishopaccountability.org

This is JUST the ones in the USA.
Thousands more went unreported.

Then add the thousands more in dozens of other countries.

[graciegirl]

HMM...so they got rid of Pope Benedict who "Actively"
COVERED UP the reports on child molester priests.

Then they elevate Cardinal Bergoglio as Pope Francis.
He did not COVER UP the abuse cases..........
............he simply IGNORED the facts and covered his ears
and pretended the abuse was not happening.

Database of Priests Accused of Sexual Abuse (http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbydiocese.html)

You can find the 3300 "listed" priests on......

www.bishopaccountability.org (http://www.bishopaccountability.org)

This is JUST the ones in the USA.
Thousands more went unreported.

Then add the thousands more in dozens of other countries.


It is more than awful, absolutely indefensible and most of us know it is time for a change. In Cincinnati our bishop was unrelenting in exposing any clergy to the authorities. It is inexcusable and wrong and beyond terrible and I can see why so many have turned away from the church. I believe that change will come.


There are many good people in the Catholic Church. We have some wonderful and caring priests at St. Timothy's and the priest that just was moved from St.Vincent de Paul was a grandfather who became a priest after his wife died.


I hear what you are both saying and you are right but many of us still find good in the church. I hope that people who are non Catholics understand.

[Golfingnut]

People throughout the world turn to the church in times of trouble and I see no evidence to change that for the masses; however, the criminal activities within the hierarchy of the Catholic Church has done horrible damage to so many thousands of faithful members. This new Pope is doing the right thing in taking the first major step to stop the madness and hopefully stop future assaults.

[ron122049]

The problem is money. These bishops and cardinals live like princes always have. They suck the earnings of the faithful like leeches and possess a huge sense of entitlement. Why would they give up their palatial digs? Have you watched the TV show "The Borgias"? Why should a "man of the cloth" sworn to poverty be permitted to live a life of luxury with servants, cooks and assistants. Pope Frances needs to fire most of these old hypocrites like he did with the German cardinal! He seems like a truly pious man and I wonder how long the old guard will allow him to continue the very necessary reforms he is making.

[ron122049]

When I attended Catholic school we, of course, were taught about the heretics like Martin Luther who were burning in hell. History is just repeating itself again. The church was so corrupt in the middle ages that the only way to kill the beast was to leave the church and face excommunication. I have a much different perspective now... nor do I believe I will go to hell for refusing to accept business as usual in the Catholic Church. Finally, free of guilt!