POA Member or Not

[nitehawk]

Just wondering how many TOTV are member of POA

[zcaveman]

If they had a lifetime membership like the VHA I would think about it.

I have more than made back my membership cost with the discounts given to VHA members.

Z

[Advogado]

If they had a lifetime membership like the VHA I would think about it.

I have more than made back my membership cost with the discounts given to VHA members.

Z

The POA has done a lot, and continues to do a lot, for residents. The POA is the only organization that represents the residents in situations (which arise from time to time) where their interests conflict with those of the Developer. I view supporting the POA as a civic obligation, not a way to get discounts.

The VHA does some good things, such as its golf-cart-safety course. However, the VHA is subsidized by the Developer in an obvious effort on the Developer's part to weaken the POA-- which has been a thorn in his side at times. As a consequence, the VHA invariably sides with the Developer in conflict situations. I view supporting the VHA as a matter of individual choice, but people should be aware of its connection to the Developer.

[cmfjr]

How does one in these type of polls that I see here from time to time?

[Taltarzac725]

I am not the homeowner but believe strongly in checks and balances like those offered by the POA. If the Villages Daily Sun does not cover an issue adequately then the POA paper usually will come into the matter with their take.

I try to counter whatever news sources I have so that I get a clearer picture of the facts.

[Indydealmaker]

I am not the homeowner but believe strongly in checks and balances like those offered by the POA. If the Villages Daily Sun does not cover an issue adequately then the POA paper usually will come into the matter with their take.

I try to counter whatever news sources I have so that I get a clearly picture of the facts.

This country would be much healthier if everybody would do as you!

[rubicon]

I would be more interested in seeing the response of " How many support the POA" and if so why?

I will start. I am not a member of the POA. It has nothing to do with monthly dues.

However, I do support what the POA does and what it stands for. This community should consider itself fortunate to have such dedicated people go out on a limb for them:MOJE_whot:

[zcaveman]

The POA has done a lot, and continues to do a lot, for residents. The POA is the only organization that represents the residents in situations (which arise from time to time) where their interests conflict with those of the Developer. I view supporting the POA as a civic obligation, not a way to get discounts.

The VHA does some good things, such as its golf-cart-safety course. However, the VHA is subsidized by the Developer in an obvious effort on the Developer's part to weaken the POA-- which has been a thorn in his side at times. As a consequence, the VHA invariably sides with the Developer in conflict situations. I view supporting the VHA as a matter of individual choice, but people should be aware of its connection to the Developer.

I did not say that I did not support the POA. I just responded to the poll and said why I was not a POA member.

I am a firm believer in the POA. If they had a lifetime membership I would join.

I was driving down to Sweet's Ace in SS to get the POA bulletin monthly before they delivered it.

Z

[kansasr]

The Villages is a wonderful place to live. However, the POA provides a much need checks and balances, watching out for the interests of the residents. Our structure of government clearly favors and benefits the developer and most of the supporting structure (media, commercial, etc.) is clearly beholden to the developer. One need look no further than the multi-million dollar settlement receive from the developer because of POA action or the POA's attempts to highlight things that the Villages Daily Sun choses to ignore, to see the value of the POA. We are indeed fortunate to have the dedicated individuals who volunteer their time to the POA.

[Warren Kiefer]

Just wondering how many TOTV are member of POA

Actually everyone should support the POA. People believe there are two homeowner associations in the Villages when in fact the POA is the only true homeowners association. The VHA for the most part is an arm representing the position of the developer in EVERY decision. It was established to be exactly as it operates.

[graciegirl]

I just don't like the POA.

[Advogado]

I just don't like the POA.

Why?

[Xavier]

I actually posted to a POA vs VHA thread in February, 2013 and it pretty much still applies today. CLICK HERE (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/621535-post13.html) to read it.

Xavier

[graciegirl]

Why?

Mostly because of the negativity. Not just in the paper they publish but it's members here who post a lot on TOTV are generally against the developer...... And really sound like they don't like the developer at all.

I don't know the developer and I don't know any of the negative people who frequently oppose him. I suspect that there is a lot of politics behind a lot of posts against him and his family..

I can't get all excited and mad because there aren't the parades like they used to have and the buffalo have left.

I still don't understand why the developer was sued by the president of the POA and those two lawyers who lived/live here and reportedly got a lot of money in their own pockets as a result of that law suit. Am I correct on that or not? The Morses seem to cross all of their tees and dot all of their i's in my book.


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-03-09/news/lvillages09_1_villages-fees-lawyer

I always agree with Xavier and his post was very reasonable.

I could be wrong. I am not big on small issues. I like it here a lot and don't think a lot of things need to be fixed. In fact, I can't think of anything.

I like the golf cart accident reports and I like the articles about lightning in the POA newsletter. It must be expensive to print and deliver all of those papers. Do the advertisers pay for it? Seems like there is always a full page ad from a local MLS group.

[ilovetv]

I'm not a member of POA but I support the effort to have checks and balances.

One of the reasons I don't join POA is because of the obvious bias against, and even hatred of, the developer. The reporting in the POA Bulletin is often very sensationalistic and biased (more biased than the Daily Sun) and in some cases has told untruths. The funding of the live oaks park by the bridge on Morse is an example of where untruths were told but later clarified by VHA and facts.

I think we need both VHA and POA. VHA's goal is to keep TV pristinely kept, fiscally funded and managed, and fiscally solvent as well. The developer protecting his business assets here (banks, insurance and mortgage companies, and millions of square feet of commercial leasing properties) is simultaneously protecting OUR assets tied up in our homes. If the developer lets his business assets go to the dogs (which won't happen), home values go to the dogs right behind them.

In many ways, what's good for the developer's business here is good for us, too. We couldn't afford to live like this in other places, and in the first place, other places don't even HAVE what we have here, much less at an affordable price.

[Warren Kiefer]

Mostly because of the negativity. Not just in the paper they publish but it's members here who post a lot on TOTV are generally against the developer...... And really sound like they don't like the developer at all.

I don't know the developer and I don't know any of the negative people who frequently oppose him. I suspect that there is a lot of politics behind a lot of posts against him and his family..

I can't get all excited and mad because there aren't the parades like they used to have and the buffalo have left.

I still don't understand why the developer was sued by the president of the POA and those two lawyers who lived/live here and reportedly got a lot of money in their own pockets as a result of that law suit. Am I correct on that or not? The Morses seem to cross all of their tees and dot all of their i's in my book.

I always agree with Xavier and his post was very reasonable.

I could be wrong. I am not big on small issues. I like it here a lot and don't think a lot of things need to be fixed. In fact, I can't think of anything.

How about you Avogado. What issue comes to mind that the POA is really helping us with at the present? Are you one of the lawyers?

Maybe I can help you with a change that should have you very concerned. It is the relationship the Developer has with the VCCDD and the SLCDD. These two boards have the majority of the financial control within our community. These two boards are elected but sadly for the residents, the only property owner and voter in these districts is the Developer. Residents will NEVER have the opportunity to elect these board members. Do you think this is a good practice ??

[graciegirl]

Maybe I can help you with a change that should have you very concerned. It is the relationship the Developer has with the VCCDD and the SLCDD. These two boards have the majority of the financial control within our community. These two boards are elected but sadly for the residents, the only property owner and voter in these districts is the Developer. Residents will NEVER have the opportunity to elect these board members. Do you think this is a good practice ??

Yes I do. Absolutely. If you have ever watched a HOA board you would see for yourself. Everyone wants to run it and spend money on foolish things.

The developer keeps things running smoothly and we don't have to listen to board members who have big egos and not too much common sense.

[villagerjack]

Yes I do. Absolutely. If you have ever watched a HOA board you would see for yourself. Everyone wants to run it and spend money on foolish things.

The developer keeps things running smoothly and we don't have to listen to board members who have big egos and not too much common sense.

Agree with Gracie.

[Indydealmaker]

Yes I do. Absolutely. If you have ever watched a HOA board you would see for yourself. Everyone wants to run it and spend money on foolish things.

The developer keeps things running smoothly and we don't have to listen to board members who have big egos and not too much common sense.

Actually, when you think about it, the people in the United States get to vote for their representatives in Congress and that does not seem to be working well at all.

[graciegirl]

I'm not a member of POA but I support the effort to have checks and balances.

One of the reasons I don't join POA is because of the obvious bias against, and even hatred of, the developer. The reporting in the POA Bulletin is often very sensationalistic and biased (more biased than the Daily Sun) and in some cases has told untruths. The funding of the live oaks park by the bridge on Morse is an example of where untruths were told but later clarified by VHA and facts.

I think we need both VHA and POA. VHA's goal is to keep TV pristinely kept, fiscally funded and managed, and fiscally solvent as well. The developer protecting his business assets here (banks, insurance and mortgage companies, and millions of square feet of commercial leasing properties) is simultaneously protecting OUR assets tied up in our homes. If the developer lets his business assets go to the dogs (which won't happen), home values go to the dogs right behind them.

In many ways, what's good for the developer's business here is good for us, too. We couldn't afford to live like this in other places, and in the first place, other places don't even HAVE what we have here, much less at an affordable price.


Does the POA have elections at some intervals? Perhaps a new group would be a little different and the paper would be a little different and it wouldn't strike me so much as trying to start something and make people all mad. Although it was really doing much better there for awhile, in my opinion.

I am not opposed to a watchdog organization. Maybe they need a retired journalist writing the paper. I just like facts reported and a good journalist usually does that with journalistic language and style. Sometimes the paper makes me mad and sometimes the paper is very ....well, better and more positive or something. .

I'd like a watchdog group to be helpful and watching out for our interests in a businesslike and respectful way. When small issues are paramount in the paper, then I am disappointed ...I guess they have to have something to write about.

We do need to see both sides and I do think the VHA is representative of the developer. I really shouldn't say either way, I don't belong to either. AND at this time don't see the need to belong to either.

[rubicon]

Mostly because of the negativity. Not just in the paper they publish but it's members here who post a lot on TOTV are generally against the developer...... And really sound like they don't like the developer at all.

I don't know the developer and I don't know any of the negative people who frequently oppose him. I suspect that there is a lot of politics behind a lot of posts against him and his family..

I can't get all excited and mad because there aren't the parades like they used to have and the buffalo have left.

I still don't understand why the developer was sued by the president of the POA and those two lawyers who lived/live here and reportedly got a lot of money in their own pockets as a result of that law suit. Am I correct on that or not? The Morses seem to cross all of their tees and dot all of their i's in my book.


Villages developer to pay $40 million for recreation upgrades to settle a lawsuit - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-03-09/news/lvillages09_1_villages-fees-lawyer)

I always agree with Xavier and his post was very reasonable.

I could be wrong. I am not big on small issues. I like it here a lot and don't think a lot of things need to be fixed. In fact, I can't think of anything.

How about you Avogado? What issue comes to mind that the POA is really helping us with at the present? Are you one of the lawyers for them in an official way?

I like the golf cart accident reports and I like the articles about lightning.

GG You are an egalitarian but here is a situation where perhaps you might want to give it more thought.

The charge against the POA concerning its negativity and dislike for the Developer is absolutely incorrect.

Contrary to what most people know the POA has made every attempt to work with both the Developer and the VHA. In fact at one point they wanted to merge the POA and VHA organizations together but were snubbed.

Why did it not occur? It did not occur because the VHA gets funding from the Developer. The VHA essentially serves as a PR firm for him. He began the VHA in an attempt to eliminate the POA. Why? Because the POA takes him to task on responsibilities he ignores ergo the amenities Lawsuit (circa 2008). Ask yourself why is it the VHA's "Voice" is delivered with your Daily Sun but the POA is not?

Some villagers reaction to the POA's efforts remind me of the Gary Cooper character in High Noon. The towns people hire him to protect them and when he does they turn on him because he did what they asked of him.

I do not always agree with the POA but I am convinced that they are the only organization here which truly is on guard for residents.

I encourage you and others to reconsider your position on the POA

One more thing. A repeating theme on this blog seems to be that criticism of the Developer equates to hate, jealousy or bias. This in my view is in most situations factually incorrect because it is about the way the Developer (Villages Lake Sumter Inc.) does business

If a resident complains about a bank, an insurance company a restaurant, a contractor is it hate jealousy or bias? Hardly.


Personal Best Regards:

PS I forgot to mention that the POA have elections every year for every position in their organization

[mickey100]

That's it in a nutshell Rubicon. Thanks for posting. I especially liked your comments regarding criticism of the Developer equates to jealousy. That is so ridiculous, and yet that charge is made frequently. The POA has done a great job of being a watchdog for the residents, particularly in the instance of the multimillion dollar lawsuit a few years back. I view the POA as part of a system of checks and balances.

[graciegirl]

GG You are an egalitarian but here is a situation where perhaps you might want to give it more thought.

The charge against the POA concerning its negativity and dislike for the Developer is absolutely incorrect.

Contrary to what most people know the POA has made every attempt to work with both the Developer and the VHA. In fact at one point they wanted to merge the POA and VHA organizations together but were snubbed.

Why did it not occur? It did not occur because the VHA gets funding from the Developer. The VHA essentially serves as a PR firm for him. He began the VHA in an attempt to eliminate the POA. Why? Because the POA takes him to task on responsibilities he ignores ergo the amenities Lawsuit (circa 2008). Ask yourself why is it the VHA's "Voice" is delivered with your Daily Sun but the POA is not?

Some villagers reaction to the POA's efforts remind me of the Gary Cooper character in High Noon. The towns people hire him to protect them and when he does they turn on him because he did what they asked of him.

I do not always agree with the POA but I am convinced that they are the only organization here which truly is on guard for residents.

I encourage you and others to reconsider your position on the POA

One more thing. A repeating theme on this blog seems to be that criticism of the Developer equates to hate, jealousy or bias. This in my view is in most situations factually incorrect because it is about the way the Developer (Villages Lake Sumter Inc.) does business

If a resident complains about a bank, an insurance company a restaurant, a contractor is it hate jealousy or bias? Hardly.


Personal Best Regards:

PS I forgot to mention that the POA have elections every year for every position in their organization

You KNOW I respect your opinions Rubicon. I am glad to hear that elections are held frequently. It seemed to me that Joe someone was the president for a long time and now Elaine Driedame is now and was before Joe? There is a BETTER way to state criticism and write about difficulties and there are things that are important and threaten the quality of our life and our investment here and things that are just petty and not deserving of printer's ink.

I certainly am NOT the best person to judge. I only have my own views.

They could start improving by having someone else write the paper in MY opinion. Which is worth absolutely nothing. Except to Sweetie and Helene and Pooh and CFrance. I cannot change Redwitch's mind on anything but I still love her.

I will look up what Egalitarian means.

I think the developer should be criticized when he and his family, heirs and assigns do something wrong. It certainly doesn't happen very often in my view. AND if someone doesn't stop saying I am paid or rewarded by him, I am going to find the lawyers that the POA used and consult with them. I am just kidding. I don't sue people.

I will reconsider my views on the POA because you asked, Rubicon and because I respect you.

[Advogado]

Before she edited her post of yesterday to delete them, Graciegirl asked me two questions:
"How about you Avogado. What issue comes to mind that the POA is really helping us with at the present? Are you one of the lawyers?"

To specifically name just two of the major issues that the POA is helping us with at present:
1. Roofing issue, and
2. Siding issue.

The POA also helps inform Villagers about issues that are not reported in the Developer-owned Daily Sun. An example of this has been the series of articles in the POA Bulletin reporting on golf-cart accidents, which, until recently, the Sun never reported because they reflected unfavorably on the image of the carefree Villages lifestyle. The articles, I believe, have contributed to an increased awareness of the need to drive carefully when operating a golf cart.

Most importantly, the POA serves as a watchdog for residents-- to help ensure that the Developer, who controls all the media in The Villages, except the POA Bulletin, does not violate his obligations to us. A good example of that function is the current IRS investigation, where the POA is trying to ensure that any settlement entered into by the Developer-controlled Center Districts does not negatively impact Villagers.

Graciegirl also criticized the POA's involvement in the class-action suit against the Developer, which resulted in the Developer's paying Villagers $43 million to fix a deteriorating amenities system--which the Developer is contractually obligated to maintain. The basis and facts of that lawsuit have been extensively explained in earlier posts and in POA Bulletins. If you really feel the suit was wrong, you can certainly send the Developer a check for your share of the settlement. Say there were 50,000 homes at the time of the settlement-- your check made payable to The Villages of Lake-Sumter, Inc. for $860 should square things.

This being said, I am not anti-Developer or anti-Villages. This is a great place to live and the Developer is an absolute genius in planning it and administering it. But I have seen enough of life to believe that people need to be vigilant in protecting their rights and to believe in the maxim about "all power corrupting"--and the Developer is pretty darn powerful here.

Finally, to answer the personal question that Graciegirl has again posed to me and that I have answered before: I am not an officer or director of the POA or a lawyer for the POA or any of its members nor have I ever been. I am merely interesting in seeing that the rights of yourself, other Villagers, and myself are protected.

[graciegirl]

Before she edited her post of yesterday to delete them, Graciegirl asked me two questions:
"How about you Avogado. What issue comes to mind that the POA is really helping us with at the present? Are you one of the lawyers?"

To specifically name just two of the major issues that the POA is helping us with at present:
1. Roofing issue, and
2. Siding issue.

The POA also helps inform Villagers about issues that are not reported in the Developer-owned Daily Sun. An example of this has been the series of articles in the POA Bulletin reporting on golf-cart accidents, which, until recently, the Sun never reported because they reflected unfavorably on the image of the carefree Villages lifestyle. The articles, I believe, have contributed to an increased awareness of the need to drive carefully when operating a golf cart.

Most importantly, the POA serves as a watchdog for residents-- to help ensure that the Developer, who controls all the media in The Villages, except the POA Bulletin, does not violate his obligations to us. A good example of that function is the current IRS investigation, where the POA is trying to ensure that any settlement entered into by the Developer-controlled Center Districts does not negatively impact Villagers.

You also criticized the POA's involvement in the class-action suit against the Developer, which resulted in the Developer's paying Villagers $43 million to fix a deteriorating amenities system--which the Developer is contractually obligated to maintain. The basis and facts of that lawsuit have been extensively explained in earlier posts and in POA Bulletins. (Not clearly to my satisfaction) If you really feel the suit was wrong, you can certainly send the Developer a check for your share of the settlement. Say there were 50,000 homes at the time of the settlement-- your check made payable to The Villages of Lake-Sumter, Inc. for $860 should square things.

This being said, I am not anti-Developer or anti-Villages. This is a great place to live and the Developer is an absolute genius in planning it and administering it. But I have seen enough of life to believe that people need to be vigilant in protecting their rights and to believe in the maxim about "all power corrupting"--and the Developer is pretty darn powerful here.

Finally, to answer the personal question that you have again posed to me and that I have answered before: I am not an officer or director of the POA or a lawyer for the POA or any of its members nor have I ever been. I am merely interesting in seeing that the rights of yourself, other Villagers, and myself are protected.

Thank you sir or madam. I feel a whole lot more comfortable about your views after this explanation.

I still say that...for some reason as we age our political views color a lot more than they used to. AND I still say that a lot of people are against the developer ONLY because of his large contributions to his favorite party.

I could be wrong. I frequently am. Ask Sweetie.

[Advogado]

Thank you sir or madam. I feel a whole lot more comfortable about your views after this explanation.

I still say that...for some reason as we age our political views color a lot more than they used to. AND I still say that a lot of people are against the developer ONLY because of his large contributions to his favorite party.

I could be wrong. I frequently am. Ask Sweetie.

You are certainly wrong this time. I am a registered Republican. I will point out, however, the hypocrisy of the the Developer's donating to conservative causes while accepting tens of millions of dollars in corporate welfare by using tax-exempt bonds (which are, in effect, subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer) to finance his development of The Villages.

By the way, are you or are you not, going to send the Developer your check for $860 to refund your share of the class-action-lawsuit settlement that you have so vehemently criticized in several posts?

[graciegirl]

You are certainly wrong this time. I am a registered Republican. I will point out, however, the hypocrisy of the the Developer's donating to conservative causes while accepting tens of millions of dollars in corporate welfare by using tax-exempt bonds (which are, in effect, subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer) to finance his development of The Villages.

By the way, are you or are you not, going to send the Developer your check for $860 to refund your share of the class-action-lawsuit settlement that you have so vehemently criticized in several posts?

You don't sound like a Republican. Morse didn't invent the CDD. Or did he?

I gotta say that if we tax payers subsidized this place, it was one of our better investments.

I will send in the money if you insist that how you view this issue is correct. You are a lawyer so you must speak the truth.

I always pay my bills. Comes from starting out with not much.

AND ending up with more than all my dreams come true.

[nitehawk]

You don't sound like a Republican. He didn't invent the CDD. Or did he?

I gotta say that if we tax payers subsidized this place, it was one of our better investments.

Now, Now, gracie you are really getting political -- be careful

[graciegirl]

Now, Now, gracie you are really getting political -- be careful

I guess I will be turned in.

I hate when that happens.

[Advogado]

You don't sound like a Republican. Morse didn't invent the CDD. Or did he?

I gotta say that if we tax payers subsidized this place, it was one of our better investments.

I will send in the money if you insist that how you view this issue is correct. You are a lawyer so you must speak the truth.

I always pay my bills. Comes from starting out with not much.

AND ending up with more than all my dreams come true.

I insist that how I view this issue is correct. Please send the Developer $860 to refund your share of the class-action settlement.

[graciegirl]

I insist that how I view this issue is correct. Please send the Developer $860 to refund your share of the class-action settlement.

And your real name sir is? Or madam?

And may I see your Villages card?

You may be an illegal alien. How do I know? Do you live in Top of the World?

Does this include the amount recovered by the lawyers for themselves? Do I get a credit on that part? Maybe the Orlando Sentinel's article isn't correct. I didn't live here then. I have to rely on rumor and hearsay. I was gonna say gossip but I watch Judge Judy so I know that it is supposed to be called hearsay.


WE are both going to be thrown off this forum for hopelessly sidetracking an important thread that Nitehawk did for us and got all these nice people to vote.

[nitehawk]

And your real name sir is? Or madam?

And may I see your Villages card?

You may be an illegal alien. How do I know?

?????????

[Moderator]

Back on topic, please....

[Peachie]

You are certainly wrong this time. I am a registered Republican. I will point out, however, the hypocrisy of the the Developer's donating to conservative causes while accepting tens of millions of dollars in corporate welfare by using tax-exempt bonds (which are, in effect, subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer) to finance his development of The Villages.

By the way, are you or are you not, going to send the Developer your check for $860 to refund your share of the class-action-lawsuit settlement that you have so vehemently criticized in several posts?

This response is exactly why we prefer not to align ourselves with the POA. The POA may have good intentions but the back-handed slaps at the Morse family are always being provided by many of the POA followers.

When a developer is competing in the real estate development corporate world, they need to compete on level ground in the area in which they develop. It's my understanding this development is not the only one in Florida that used these tax-exempt bonds for financing. Should the Morse family not use the tax-exempt bonds for financing if other developers are using them? Equal financial footing is critical to be successful in property development.

This is from the 2007 letter to the residents from the Developer:

Villages‘ residents seem to divide up into 3 basic groups:

Group 1 is the silent group. They love
living here. They don‘t want to bother
with anything. They just want to enjoy the
golden years of their retirement.

Group 2 wants to help. They love living
here and believe they can improve The Villages
by working with their developer.
They gravitate to the VHA.

Group 3 – they love living here. But,
they believe that the developer‘s goal is to
take advantage of the residents. They believe
they can improve The Villages by
challenging the developer and fighting for
residents‘ rights. They gravitate toward the
POA.

We find ourselves in the second group and believe in the Morse family's dedication to The Villages and believe they are doing their best to make this the best retirement area in the world.

[ncarvalho]

The POA has done a lot, and continues to do a lot, for residents. The POA is the only organization that represents the residents in situations (which arise from time to time) where their interests conflict with those of the Developer. I view supporting the POA as a civic obligation, not a way to get discounts.

The VHA does some good things, such as its golf-cart-safety course. However, the VHA is subsidized by the Developer in an obvious effort on the Developer's part to weaken the POA-- which has been a thorn in his side at times. As a consequence, the VHA invariably sides with the Developer in conflict situations. I view supporting the VHA as a matter of individual choice, but people should be aware of its connection to the Developer.
Very interesting, Advogado. If I understand you correctly this is a conflict of interest. I wonder if, in the charter of POA, there is an code of ethics/ conduct that address this situation or guidances on how to handle decisions when a conflict of interest arises.

I read material from POA from time to time, which indicated to me the staff at POA trends to look for members best interest. I did not realize (probably because I did not get involved in checking governance issues) of the engagement with the Developer. I shall take time and learn more about this, as I am not (yet) a full time resident at TV.

[Peachie]

Very interesting, Advogado. If I understand you correctly this is a conflict of interest. I wonder if, in the charter of POA, there is an code of ethics/ conduct that address this situation or guidances on how to handle decisions when a conflict of interest arises.

I read material from POA from time to time, which indicated to me the staff at POA trends to look for members best interest. I did not realize (probably because I did not get involved in checking governance issues) of the engagement with the Developer. I shall take time and learn more about this, as I am not (yet) a full time resident at TV.

If you do some reading on the history of the POA, you will find that Mr. Morse did at one time belong to the POA. He disassociated himself from this group when it turn out to be a gripe session from individuals about their problems which didn't always involve the entire community well-being.

It wasn't that he didn't think they had a right to exist, he was far more interested in a group with committees that tackled major issues that may occur within The Villages and not so much the smaller issues for which there were already avenues for resolution. The POA has tackled some larger issues but does more, shall we say "nitpicking" at smaller issues that really don't involve the developer, ie; seatbelts on golf carts, etc.

I agree that there is a place for the POA since it brings peace of mind to some residents in the fact that it exists. If the Morse's ever pack up their buckboard and leave, we'll join immediately.

[blueash]

Disagreement with a policy does not obligate a person to financially make up for the result of that policy. If I oppose the cut in the military budget that has resulted from sequestration, I am not therefore obligated to send a check to the Pentagon even though my taxes are lower as a result of that cut and thus I have benefitted from that policy. Nor if I opposed the cut in SNAP am I obligated to send a check to the Agriculture department. I couldn't legally withhold part of my check to the IRS during the Vietnam war. I can't now do it if I oppose the ACA. Avogadro, don't badger the witness may be applicable phrase.

POA member as I want someone representing me as a counter balance to those in power. I may have a blind spot but I don't see the POA as anti-Morse, I see it as pro-Villager. Where the interest of the developer and the Villager are in alignment the POA is actively supportive. In those rare situations where interests seem to conflict the POA will try to represent the Villager's best interest.

[graciegirl]

Disagreement with a policy does not obligate a person to financially make up for the result of that policy. If I oppose the cut in the military budget that has resulted from sequestration, I am not therefore obligated to send a check to the Pentagon even though my taxes are lower as a result of that cut and thus I have benefitted from that policy. Nor if I opposed the cut in SNAP am I obligated to send a check to the Agriculture department. I couldn't legally withhold part of my check to the IRS during the Vietnam war. I can't now do it if I oppose the ACA. Avogadro, don't badger the witness may be applicable phrase.

POA member as I want someone representing me as a counter balance to those in power. I may have a blind spot but I don't see the POA as anti-Morse, I see it as pro-Villager. Where the interest of the developer and the Villager are in alignment the POA is actively supportive. In those rare situations where interests seem to conflict the POA will try to represent the Villager's best interest.


They have some unusual allegiances and medical presentations. Didn't you once post on one of them?

[BobAllen1290]

In every organization or community you belong to there is a collection of malcontents. They KNEW what they were getting into when they signed up and then after they WILLINGLY agreed to join/buy-in/accept the conditions and realities of the organization or community they then begin to howl as though they were hoodwinked widows being thrown into the snow by Simon LeGree. That in a nutshell is the essence of the POA. Noise for the sake of noise.

[blueash]

They have some unusual allegiances and medical presentations. Didn't you once post on one of them?

Good memory GG. Yes a very non-standard medical opinion. But they also had a great presentation on the wisdom of having a neighborhood AED given by Gail Lazenby, who is an employee of VCDD. The POA didn't take a position on the utility of mega-vitamins, it allowed a presentation of a topic completely unrelated to Villages governance, I have no problem with that. I have no idea what you might be suggesting by "unusual allegiances" as the only allegiance I have noticed is to be a voice for the benefit of the community.

[rubicon]

This response is exactly why we prefer not to align ourselves with the POA. The POA may have good intentions but the back-handed slaps at the Morse family are always being provided by many of the POA followers.

When a developer is competing in the real estate development corporate world, they need to compete on level ground in the area in which they develop. It's my understanding this development is not the only one in Florida that used these tax-exempt bonds for financing. Should the Morse family not use the tax-exempt bonds for financing if other developers are using them? Equal financial footing is critical to be successful in property development.

This is from the 2007 letter to the residents from the Developer:

Villages‘ residents seem to divide up into 3 basic groups:

Group 1 is the silent group. They love
living here. They don‘t want to bother
with anything. They just want to enjoy the
golden years of their retirement.

Group 2 wants to help. They love living
here and believe they can improve The Villages
by working with their developer.
They gravitate to the VHA.

Group 3 – they love living here. But,
they believe that the developer‘s goal is to
take advantage of the residents. They believe
they can improve The Villages by
challenging the developer and fighting for
residents‘ rights. They gravitate toward the
POA.

We find ourselves in the second group and believe in the Morse family's dedication to The Villages and believe they are doing their best to make this the best retirement area in the world.

Hi Peachie: You have taken an article written by the Developer back in 2009 as I recollect and have done so verbatim.

Please once again the POA IS NOT ANTI DEVELOPER and anyone suggesting so has learned the benefits of the a Saul Alinsky tactics.

They are using this same tactic to confuse pro-active activities undertaken by the POA to protect homeowners such as the siding issue, roofing issue etc. They are using this tactic to mischaracterize the negotiations that are necessary to come to an agreement. How else do you believe the POA can operate. I mean they have not threatened to burn the place down if the Developer doesn't comply.

Is a wife anti husband if she has a beef with her spouse? No she is asserting what she believes is right.

Does one person's response reflect an entire organization? And should or can that organization be held responsible to what some people think.
The POA has never in the years I have lived here ever said or acted derogatorily toward the Developer but only addressed the issues that they believe were not in the best interests of residents. I know what I am talking about here.

There was much so called negativity concerning the recent "Berlin Wall" Did the POA create it or try and resolve it to everyone's best interests? By the way I was vocal for the wall and disagreed with the POA.

Please stop these mischaracterizations they are not fair and they are destructive to us all.

Personal Best Regards:

[Peachie]

Hi Peachie: You have taken an article written by the Developer back in 2009 as I recollect and have done so verbatim.

Please once again the POA IS NOT ANTI DEVELOPER and anyone suggesting so has learned the benefits of the a Saul Alinsky tactics.

They are using this same tactic to confuse pro-active activities undertaken by the POA to protect homeowners such as the siding issue, roofing issue etc. They are using this tactic to mischaracterize the negotiations that are necessary to come to an agreement. How else do you believe the POA can operate. I mean they have not threatened to burn the place down if the Developer doesn't comply.

Is a wife anti husband if she has a beef with her spouse? No she is asserting what she believes is right.

Does one person's response reflect an entire organization? And should or can that organization be held responsible to what some people think.
The POA has never in the years I have lived here ever said or acted derogatorily toward the Developer but only addressed the issues that they believe were not in the best interests of residents. I know what I am talking about here.

There was much so called negativity concerning the recent "Berlin Wall" Did the POA create it or try and resolve it to everyone's best interests? By the way I was vocal for the wall and disagreed with the POA.

Please stop these mischaracterizations they are not fair and they are destructive to us all.

Personal Best Regards:

Good morning, Rubicon. I don't consider the general consenus of the POA, which is they have to save us from the developer, as a mischaracterization. I, IMHO, do believe the scenerio provided by Mr. Morse in his speech pretty much sums up the opinions of most people regarding The Villages. Most POA people love The Villages but feel if they turn their back, the Morse family will rob them blind.

I would need to review the records of how many lawsuits the POA ITSELF has instituted and won and on what basis. If someone has a record of all those lawsuits, it would be great if they would bring us all up to speed.

I do remember the settlement from the lawsuit, which is bandied about so often as the POA's great achievement but was not adjudicated with a trial, and was settled when Mr. Morse agreed to the class action lawsuit settlement he reached that was approved by the Court in March of 2008. At that time the Developer agreed that he had overlooked some things and that adjustments were needed. Was it the POA that executed this lawsuit?

As I stated in my earlier post, I am comfortable with the fact that some people feel the need for protection from the Morse family. I'm in the second group, not mindless, but I have the conviction the Morse's will step up to the plate if a situation requires such. I've have been wrong before but one knows we all have to live with our convictions.

BTW, I think a wife maybe anti-husband if she is telling everyone she thinks he's going to cheat. :wave:

Enjoy the day, Rubicon. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree.

[Warren Kiefer]

Yes I do. Absolutely. If you have ever watched a HOA board you would see for yourself. Everyone wants to run it and spend money on foolish things.

The developer keeps things running smoothly and we don't have to listen to board members who have big egos and not too much common sense.

Every member of these two boards are known cronies and or employees of the developer. How can this be good when these two boards make decisions on million dollar properties the residents will purchase from the developer and how much we will pay for those properties. Just who do you think they truly represent in these purchases. "the residents" is the wrong answer. Let's say you desire to buy some very pricey property, so you are forced to hire a particular lawyer and an agent. It is beyond your control that the lawyer is the son of the seller and the agent is the brother of the seller. They two will establish your cost and again it is important that you know, whether to purchase or not is not up to you but will be the sole decision of the son and brother. Your reply to my post indicates you might not be concerned about this relationship and that the son and brother will take care of your interest and keep things running smoothly, at least for them.

[Peachie]

Every member of these two boards are known cronies and or employees of the developer. How can this be good when these two boards make decisions on million dollar properties the residents will purchase from the developer and how much we will pay for those properties. Just who do you think they truly represent in these purchases. "the residents" is the wrong answer. Let's say you desire to buy some very pricey property, so you are forced to hire a particular lawyer and an agent. It is beyond your control that the lawyer is the son of the seller and the agent is the brother of the seller. They two will establish your cost and again it is important that you know, whether to purchase or not is not up to you but will be the sole decision of the son and brother. Your reply to my post indicates you might not be concerned about this relationship and that the son and brother will take care of your interest and keep things running smoothly, at least for them.

Rubicon, I rest my case. :thumbup:

[graciegirl]

Every member of these two boards are known cronies and or employees of the developer. How can this be good when these two boards make decisions on million dollar properties the residents will purchase from the developer and how much we will pay for those properties. Just who do you think they truly represent in these purchases. "the residents" is the wrong answer. Let's say you desire to buy some very pricey property, so you are forced to hire a particular lawyer and an agent. It is beyond your control that the lawyer is the son of the seller and the agent is the brother of the seller. They two will establish your cost and again it is important that you know, whether to purchase or not is not up to you but will be the sole decision of the son and brother. Your reply to my post indicates you might not be concerned about this relationship and that the son and brother will take care of your interest and keep things running smoothly, at least for them.


How can it be good? It IS good. If you want to see a mess, turn the running of this place over to the general population. I know of what I speak.

[bimmertl]

How can it be good? It IS good. If you want to see a mess, turn the running of this place over to the general population. I know of what I speak.

Really?? This article from 2012 provides some insight into how Morse et al amass their fortune. The paragraph entitled "Pickleball, Golf" is enlightening.

Billionaire Morse Behind Curtain at Villages - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-04/hidden-billionaire-morse-a-man-behind-curtain-at-villages.html)

[mickey100]

If you do some reading on the history of the POA, you will find that Mr. Morse did at one time belong to the POA. He disassociated himself from this group when it turn out to be a gripe session from individuals about their problems which didn't always involve the entire community well-being.

It wasn't that he didn't think they had a right to exist, he was far more interested in a group with committees that tackled major issues that may occur within The Villages and not so much the smaller issues for which there were already avenues for resolution. The POA has tackled some larger issues but does more, shall we say "nitpicking" at smaller issues that really don't involve the developer, ie; seatbelts on golf carts, etc.

The POA spends its time on nitpicky issues??? May I remind you of some of the POA's accomplishments:


The Lawsuit Settlement - Villagers achieved a friendly class action lawsuit settlement with the developer in 2008 valued at $43 million. The key points of the settlement were: Provision for Reserve funds for eventual repair and replacement of our facilities north of Hwy. 466; provision for renovation of the recreation trails north of Hwy 446; creation of the AAC (Amenity Authority Committee) which allows residents elected by residents to make decisions about the expenditure of amenity funds north of Hwy. 466; and payoff of the Paradise Recreation Center renovation debt.

Defeat of the Sumter County Hospital Tax -The POA opposed the creation of this taxing district which would have taxed Sumter County residents about $200-$300 per home for use by our hospital and also given 20% of the tax off the top to the developer's foundation.


Hospital Emergency Room - After receiving reports of continuing poor service and performance in our hospital's ER over the years the POA documented over 125 instances of serious problems in the ER and they publicized the problems. In response, LRMC brought in a new CEO of the hospital, a new director of the ER, dedicated more resources and staff to the ER, hired more nurses, established better training programs, and brought in three Villagers to sit on the Board of the hospital's parent organization.

Moffitt Cancer Center - The POA advocated bringing this cancer center to The Villages for what we believed would be one of the crown jewels in the medical facilities of The Villages. They organized a letter-writing program, researched the demographics, argued for bringing the center here, and voiced our hopes to the appropriate decision-makers.

Vinyl Siding - Sloppy work and installation procedures characterized the building effort of the contractors for homes in The Villages south of Hwy 466 in the 2005-2008 time period. Credit has to go to Ray Micucci and his wife Lori for spearheading the inspection of over 1,500 homes and prodding the work of the warranty department and various contractors to repair the problems.

Activity Policy Reversal - The Center Districts voted to restrict residents from gathering to protest anything. A liability insurance policy for $1 million was also required 30 days in advance of any protest gathering. The POA opposed this action, calling it a violation of our Constitutional Rights of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly, and argued against it in the Bulletin. The Center Districts backed down and rescinded the rule.

Paradise Center - The original recreation center on the east side of Hwy 441/27 was deteriorating and an absolute disgrace. POA did a survey, organized residents, pleaded with the VCCDD to renovate the center, advocated renovation in the Bulletin, and were eventually successful in getting this $5 million project off the ground.

IRS/Bonds - We are waiting on this one. But, what the POA did do was caution restraint rather than wild speculation, and identified the developer as the only one to benefit financially from the issuance of the bonds as tax exempt. If we get the negative outcome, we trust that the developer will do what is necessary to protect residents from any adverse impact.

Conflict of Interests by District Employees - The POA documented the fact that some Center District employees were in line to benefit financially from certain dealings with the developer. The POA viewed this as a conflict of interests. As a result, one Center District employee was re-assigned, and any dealing like this in the future will be scrutinized for any potential conflict of interests problems.

Forgotten $200,000 Billing - Somehow or another, a VCCDD bill to the developer for about $200,000 for expenses related to his use of the Savannah Center was never issued. A POA director, Irving Yedwab, noticed the problem and the POA publicized the situation in the Bulletin. The developer did pay up once the bill was issued.....

and the list goes on and on. Nitpicking??? Not in my estimation.

[graciegirl]

Really?? This article from 2012 provides some insight into how Morse et al amass their fortune. The paragraph entitled "Pickleball, Golf" is enlightening.

Billionaire Morse Behind Curtain at Villages - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-04/hidden-billionaire-morse-a-man-behind-curtain-at-villages.html)

It is NOT a sin to become rich through diligent endeavors and good ideas and taking a risk with your own money. It just looks easy from the outside. I have never run into this attitude in my whole life until I moved here..

It is called free enterprise. It didn't fall on him. And they are still doin' what they did to get what they got.

Thank you so much. I am enjoying the fruits of your labors, Morse family.

Good Grief.

[Peachie]

The POA spends its time on nitpicky issues??? May I remind you of some of the POA's accomplishments:


The Lawsuit Settlement - Villagers achieved a friendly class action lawsuit settlement with the developer in 2008 valued at $43 million. The key points of the settlement were: Provision for Reserve funds for eventual repair and replacement of our facilities north of Hwy. 466; provision for renovation of the recreation trails north of Hwy 446; creation of the AAC (Amenity Authority Committee) which allows residents elected by residents to make decisions about the expenditure of amenity funds north of Hwy. 466; and payoff of the Paradise Recreation Center renovation debt.

Defeat of the Sumter County Hospital Tax -The POA opposed the creation of this taxing district which would have taxed Sumter County residents about $200-$300 per home for use by our hospital and also given 20% of the tax off the top to the developer's foundation.


Hospital Emergency Room - After receiving reports of continuing poor service and performance in our hospital's ER over the years the POA documented over 125 instances of serious problems in the ER and they publicized the problems. In response, LRMC brought in a new CEO of the hospital, a new director of the ER, dedicated more resources and staff to the ER, hired more nurses, established better training programs, and brought in three Villagers to sit on the Board of the hospital's parent organization.

Moffitt Cancer Center - The POA advocated bringing this cancer center to The Villages for what we believed would be one of the crown jewels in the medical facilities of The Villages. They organized a letter-writing program, researched the demographics, argued for bringing the center here, and voiced our hopes to the appropriate decision-makers.

Vinyl Siding - Sloppy work and installation procedures characterized the building effort of the contractors for homes in The Villages south of Hwy 466 in the 2005-2008 time period. Credit has to go to Ray Micucci and his wife Lori for spearheading the inspection of over 1,500 homes and prodding the work of the warranty department and various contractors to repair the problems.

Activity Policy Reversal - The Center Districts voted to restrict residents from gathering to protest anything. A liability insurance policy for $1 million was also required 30 days in advance of any protest gathering. The POA opposed this action, calling it a violation of our Constitutional Rights of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly, and argued against it in the Bulletin. The Center Districts backed down and rescinded the rule.

Paradise Center - The original recreation center on the east side of Hwy 441/27 was deteriorating and an absolute disgrace. POA did a survey, organized residents, pleaded with the VCCDD to renovate the center, advocated renovation in the Bulletin, and were eventually successful in getting this $5 million project off the ground.

IRS/Bonds - We are waiting on this one. But, what the POA did do was caution restraint rather than wild speculation, and identified the developer as the only one to benefit financially from the issuance of the bonds as tax exempt. If we get the negative outcome, we trust that the developer will do what is necessary to protect residents from any adverse impact.

Conflict of Interests by District Employees - The POA documented the fact that some Center District employees were in line to benefit financially from certain dealings with the developer. The POA viewed this as a conflict of interests. As a result, one Center District employee was re-assigned, and any dealing like this in the future will be scrutinized for any potential conflict of interests problems.

Forgotten $200,000 Billing - Somehow or another, a VCCDD bill to the developer for about $200,000 for expenses related to his use of the Savannah Center was never issued. A POA director, Irving Yedwab, noticed the problem and the POA publicized the situation in the Bulletin. The developer did pay up once the bill was issued.....

and the list goes on and on. Nitpicking??? Not in my estimation.

Hi, Mickey. See that what was confusing to me, I thought I had previously read that two or three attorneys sued the Developer. I was seeking clarification that they were hired by the POA, I had thought they were filing on their own and a resident owner's behalf for a class action. I did not know they were under the employ of the POA.

I also didn't realize the POA brought Moffitt to The Villages, I thought the Morse family had a hand in that. There were many upset posters on TOTV that Moffitt was coming to The Villages and blamed it all on the developer, if only they would have known it was the fault of the POA.

I didn't say the POA didn't have a voice, they ring the bell when they become alarmed but quite often they are picking up on issues already in the public eye and just reexamining it. I said I thought the POA had a place for people who are fearful of the next harm the developer will wrack on The Villages citizenry. I do think it's somewhat humorous that the POA feels a billionaire was trying to skin $200,000. off a bill.

I did say the POA was not MY cup of tea and maybe someday I would change my mind, if or when the Morse family turns over the controls of this development to the residents.

Does the POA highlight often all that the Morse family has contributed to this area of Florida? How about keeping a running reminder in their bulletin that the developer has: made the 301 Hwy and other road improvements possible, had a hand in the fine Sumter County buildings which include a library, developed a wonderful school system, is attempting to improve medical services constantly in our community and so forth. Does the POA bulletin go out of its way to remind people the Morse family truly does appear to have our best interests at heart?

Bimmertl wants us to be alarmed with information that sources which include Andrew Blechman, (I'm not at all impressed with that source :icon_bored:), provided about the prosperous developer. If the Morse family has the business acumen to generate income after the buildout is complete so they may remain in this community, I am delighted.

The Villages operates in the manner that we desire and bought into years ago. I believe it will be a sorry day if the residents gain control and operate this wonderful community. Then I will have panic in my heart.

[Advogado]

The POA spends its time on nitpicky issues??? May I remind you of some of the POA's accomplishments:


The Lawsuit Settlement - Villagers achieved a friendly class action lawsuit settlement with the developer in 2008 valued at $43 million. The key points of the settlement were: Provision for Reserve funds for eventual repair and replacement of our facilities north of Hwy. 466; provision for renovation of the recreation trails north of Hwy 446; creation of the AAC (Amenity Authority Committee) which allows residents elected by residents to make decisions about the expenditure of amenity funds north of Hwy. 466; and payoff of the Paradise Recreation Center renovation debt.

Defeat of the Sumter County Hospital Tax -The POA opposed the creation of this taxing district which would have taxed Sumter County residents about $200-$300 per home for use by our hospital and also given 20% of the tax off the top to the developer's foundation.


Hospital Emergency Room - After receiving reports of continuing poor service and performance in our hospital's ER over the years the POA documented over 125 instances of serious problems in the ER and they publicized the problems. In response, LRMC brought in a new CEO of the hospital, a new director of the ER, dedicated more resources and staff to the ER, hired more nurses, established better training programs, and brought in three Villagers to sit on the Board of the hospital's parent organization.

Moffitt Cancer Center - The POA advocated bringing this cancer center to The Villages for what we believed would be one of the crown jewels in the medical facilities of The Villages. They organized a letter-writing program, researched the demographics, argued for bringing the center here, and voiced our hopes to the appropriate decision-makers.

Vinyl Siding - Sloppy work and installation procedures characterized the building effort of the contractors for homes in The Villages south of Hwy 466 in the 2005-2008 time period. Credit has to go to Ray Micucci and his wife Lori for spearheading the inspection of over 1,500 homes and prodding the work of the warranty department and various contractors to repair the problems.

Activity Policy Reversal - The Center Districts voted to restrict residents from gathering to protest anything. A liability insurance policy for $1 million was also required 30 days in advance of any protest gathering. The POA opposed this action, calling it a violation of our Constitutional Rights of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly, and argued against it in the Bulletin. The Center Districts backed down and rescinded the rule.

Paradise Center - The original recreation center on the east side of Hwy 441/27 was deteriorating and an absolute disgrace. POA did a survey, organized residents, pleaded with the VCCDD to renovate the center, advocated renovation in the Bulletin, and were eventually successful in getting this $5 million project off the ground.

IRS/Bonds - We are waiting on this one. But, what the POA did do was caution restraint rather than wild speculation, and identified the developer as the only one to benefit financially from the issuance of the bonds as tax exempt. If we get the negative outcome, we trust that the developer will do what is necessary to protect residents from any adverse impact.

Conflict of Interests by District Employees - The POA documented the fact that some Center District employees were in line to benefit financially from certain dealings with the developer. The POA viewed this as a conflict of interests. As a result, one Center District employee was re-assigned, and any dealing like this in the future will be scrutinized for any potential conflict of interests problems.

Forgotten $200,000 Billing - Somehow or another, a VCCDD bill to the developer for about $200,000 for expenses related to his use of the Savannah Center was never issued. A POA director, Irving Yedwab, noticed the problem and the POA publicized the situation in the Bulletin. The developer did pay up once the bill was issued.....

and the list goes on and on. Nitpicking??? Not in my estimation.
Nice try mickey100. But rational arguments on this subject will get you nowhere with the Developerphiles of this forum.

In defending the POA and pointing out that the Developer has, from time-to-time, done some things, that, charitably put, are questionable, you are wasting your time. You are interfering with the Developerphiles' dream that everything in The Villages is absolutely perfect, that the Developer is totally altruistic, and that the Developer would never do anything that enriches himself at the expense of the residents. According to their view, we should all kick back, turn off our brains, play golf, and trust the Developer. Heck, after all, it's fun here and we are retired.

The Developerphiles will now reply to your post with a personal attack--accusing you of being negative and anti-Developer. They will not, however, present any facts to support their accusations. Presenting facts and a rational argument, as you did, takes time and effort--and, even worse, thought.

[Peachie]

Nice try mickey100. But rational arguments on this subject will get you nowhere with the Developerphiles of this forum.

In defending the POA and pointing out that the Developer has, from time-to-time, done some things, that, charitably put, are questionable, you are wasting your time. You are interfering with the Developerphiles' dream that everything in The Villages is absolutely perfect, that the Developer is totally altruistic, and that the Developer would never do anything that enriches himself at the expense of the residents. According to their view, we should all kick back, turn off our brains, play golf, and trust the Developer. Heck, after all, it's fun here and we are retired.

The Developerphiles will now reply to your post with a personal attack--accusing you of being negative and anti-Developer. They will not, however, present any facts to support their accusations. Presenting facts and a rational argument, as you did, takes time and effort--and, even worse, thought.

I find this so common on TOTV, unless you fall into the "developerphobics rational", (since you've decided to skip civility), there is an attempt to dismiss logical arguments. Not working for me, Avogado, I've already stated there is a place for the POA. It serves a certain population in The Villages but I didn't know following their philosophy was mandatory.

I found your name calling and post to be most thoughtless, too bad; a good discussion is far more desirable.

[Peachie]

The POA spends its time on nitpicky issues??? May I remind you of some of the POA's accomplishments:


The Lawsuit Settlement - Villagers achieved a friendly class action lawsuit settlement with the developer in 2008 valued at $43 million. The key points of the settlement were: Provision for Reserve funds for eventual repair and replacement of our facilities north of Hwy. 466; provision for renovation of the recreation trails north of Hwy 446; creation of the AAC (Amenity Authority Committee) which allows residents elected by residents to make decisions about the expenditure of amenity funds north of Hwy. 466; and payoff of the Paradise Recreation Center renovation debt.

Defeat of the Sumter County Hospital Tax -The POA opposed the creation of this taxing district which would have taxed Sumter County residents about $200-$300 per home for use by our hospital and also given 20% of the tax off the top to the developer's foundation.


Hospital Emergency Room - After receiving reports of continuing poor service and performance in our hospital's ER over the years the POA documented over 125 instances of serious problems in the ER and they publicized the problems. In response, LRMC brought in a new CEO of the hospital, a new director of the ER, dedicated more resources and staff to the ER, hired more nurses, established better training programs, and brought in three Villagers to sit on the Board of the hospital's parent organization.

Moffitt Cancer Center - The POA advocated bringing this cancer center to The Villages for what we believed would be one of the crown jewels in the medical facilities of The Villages. They organized a letter-writing program, researched the demographics, argued for bringing the center here, and voiced our hopes to the appropriate decision-makers.

Vinyl Siding - Sloppy work and installation procedures characterized the building effort of the contractors for homes in The Villages south of Hwy 466 in the 2005-2008 time period. Credit has to go to Ray Micucci and his wife Lori for spearheading the inspection of over 1,500 homes and prodding the work of the warranty department and various contractors to repair the problems.

Activity Policy Reversal - The Center Districts voted to restrict residents from gathering to protest anything. A liability insurance policy for $1 million was also required 30 days in advance of any protest gathering. The POA opposed this action, calling it a violation of our Constitutional Rights of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly, and argued against it in the Bulletin. The Center Districts backed down and rescinded the rule.

Paradise Center - The original recreation center on the east side of Hwy 441/27 was deteriorating and an absolute disgrace. POA did a survey, organized residents, pleaded with the VCCDD to renovate the center, advocated renovation in the Bulletin, and were eventually successful in getting this $5 million project off the ground.

IRS/Bonds - We are waiting on this one. But, what the POA did do was caution restraint rather than wild speculation, and identified the developer as the only one to benefit financially from the issuance of the bonds as tax exempt. If we get the negative outcome, we trust that the developer will do what is necessary to protect residents from any adverse impact.

Conflict of Interests by District Employees - The POA documented the fact that some Center District employees were in line to benefit financially from certain dealings with the developer. The POA viewed this as a conflict of interests. As a result, one Center District employee was re-assigned, and any dealing like this in the future will be scrutinized for any potential conflict of interests problems.

Forgotten $200,000 Billing - Somehow or another, a VCCDD bill to the developer for about $200,000 for expenses related to his use of the Savannah Center was never issued. A POA director, Irving Yedwab, noticed the problem and the POA publicized the situation in the Bulletin. The developer did pay up once the bill was issued.....

and the list goes on and on. Nitpicking??? Not in my estimation.

After doing some research, Mickey, it appears a sister and brother, both attorneys, filed suit on behalf of a resident and the POA is not mentioned. Are there additional facts regarding the lawsuit that weren't included in the article that would indicate the attorneys were under the employ of the POA?

[Warren Kiefer]

How can it be good? It IS good. If you want to see a mess, turn the running of this place over to the general population. I know of what I speak.

I was hoping for a retional answer. You would not turn these two boards to the general population. We have exceptionally qualified people right here in the Villages that could go thru the election process to serve on the boards. These board members would held responsible by the Villages electorate. Surely you have made yourself aware of those who the Developer elects to serve. You might be surprised ! I recall that once upon a time one member elected to the board was head of the Buffalo operations, I am sure you see how this would make him uniquely qualified to support the residents purchasing the Savannah Center for 84 million dollars.

[KeepingItReal]

GG
The charge against the POA concerning its negativity and dislike for the Developer is absolutely incorrect.

Contrary to what most people know the POA has made every attempt to work with both the Developer and the VHA. In fact at one point they wanted to merge the POA and VHA organizations together but were snubbed.

Why did it not occur? It did not occur because the VHA gets funding from the Developer. The VHA essentially serves as a PR firm for him. He began the VHA in an attempt to eliminate the POA. Why? Because the POA takes him to task on responsibilities he ignores ergo the amenities Lawsuit (circa 2008). Ask yourself why is it the VHA's "Voice" is delivered with your Daily Sun but the POA is not?

Some villagers reaction to the POA's efforts remind me of the Gary Cooper character in High Noon. The towns people hire him to protect them and when he does they turn on him because he did what they asked of him.

I do not always agree with the POA but I am convinced that they are the only organization here which truly is on guard for residents.

I encourage you and others to reconsider your position on the POA

One more thing. A repeating theme on this blog seems to be that criticism of the Developer equates to hate, jealousy or bias. This in my view is in most situations factually incorrect because it is about the way the Developer (Villages Lake Sumter Inc.) does business

If a resident complains about a bank, an insurance company a restaurant, a contractor is it hate jealousy or bias? Hardly.


Personal Best Regards:

PS I forgot to mention that the POA have elections every year for every position in their
organization

Rubicon well said and I would only ask residents to ask themselves what they think would happen if there was no place for them to have their concerns addressed? No place to receive help with a problem? No place to find out what has happened towards resolving an issue? No one keeping an eye out for their concerns?

Absolute power leads to absolute corruption and this has been demonstrated many times.

Roofing, siding, amenities improvement, AC line set failures, and many other issues are only a few of the problems which have been made known and resolved by the efforts of the POA. To think there is no useful purpose for an agency to keep a watchful eye on things would be equal to trying to convince ourselves there are no problems in our utopia.

If any resident thinks they are going to receive an audience for their concerns or a problem from those in charge you should rethink that position. It took over 9 months to resolve the recent bond interest issue. Numerous times I was rebuked and told there was nothing being done incorrectly by the CDD and even by the CDD attorney. Only the threat of a class action lawsuit finally got their attention and brought about a meeting with Gary Moyer... Their letters are still available if anyone doubts it happened. In the end it was proven the VCDD was wrong and the issue was corrected resulting in hundreds of refunds from years past. It was like a David and Goliath story but just because they are big does not mean they are always right whether it is intentional or not. If residents want to just give up and hope they will always be treated fairly then they will suffer the outcome. The POA helped publicize the change in policy and demanded those previously overcharged be notified which would not have happened without their help.

The POA is not perfect either as some expect them to be apparently, but they do have the residents back. If anyone wants to change the way anything is done they are always open to help.

[mickey100]

Nice try mickey100. But rational arguments on this subject will get you nowhere with the Developerphiles of this forum.

In defending the POA and pointing out that the Developer has, from time-to-time, done some things, that, charitably put, are questionable, you are wasting your time. You are interfering with the Developerphiles' dream that everything in The Villages is absolutely perfect, that the Developer is totally altruistic, and that the Developer would never do anything that enriches himself at the expense of the residents. According to their view, we should all kick back, turn off our brains, play golf, and trust the Developer. Heck, after all, it's fun here and we are retired.

The Developerphiles will now reply to your post with a personal attack--accusing you of being negative and anti-Developer. They will not, however, present any facts to support their accusations. Presenting facts and a rational argument, as you did, takes time and effort--and, even worse, thought.

Thanks. But you forgot about the part where they will accuse me of being jealous of the Developer or any other business person. To be precise, though, even some of the things that were mentioned that the poster assumed were "charitable" by the developer, some were not so. For example, when a development such as The Villages affects the road system, (adding 10,000/year to the driving population on the roads qualifies), a permit is required by the State or County, depending on which roads are affected, to mitigate such effects. Any improvements made to Route 301 would fall into that category - required by law in other words.

I realize that there are a certain number of posters who have their heads in the sand and foolishly think the Developer is some sort of benign king with our best interests at heart. "Don't worry, be happy, just turn off your brain" is their mantra. Some of us tend to be a little more cautious. Had the Developer been so altruistic, we never would have needed a class action lawsuit. The folks back then would have pointed out (and actually they did request but were denied) what was needed, that the funds hadn't been set aside for maintenance, and the Developer would have kicked in with a mea culpa, and everything would have been wonderful. But that didn't happen. He didn't voluntarily put up the funds that were allegedly misappropriated, he had to be prodded into it with a lawsuit. And that says something to me. Like I said, just being cautious.

Anyways, I am grateful for the POA and all they have done and continue to do for the residents.

[graciegirl]

Thanks. To be precise, though, even some of the things that were mentioned that the poster assumed were "charitable" by the developer, some were not so, they were required by law. For example, when a development such as The Villages affects the road system, (adding 10,000/year to the driving population on the roads qualifies), a permit is required by the State or County, depending on which roads are affected, to mitigate such effects. Any improvements made to Route 301 would fall into that category.

I realize that there are a certain number of posters who have their heads in the sand and foolishly think the Developer is some sort of benign king with our best interests at heart. "Don't worry, be happy, just turn off your brain" is their mantra. Some of us tend to be a little more cautious. Had the Developer been so altruistic, we never would have needed a class action lawsuit. The folks back then would have pointed out (and actually they did request but were denied) what was needed, that the funds hadn't been set aside for maintenance, and the Developer would have kicked in with a mea culpa, and everything would have been wonderful. But that didn't happen. He he didn't voluntarily put up the funds that were allegedly misappropriated, he had to be prodded into it with a lawsuit.

Anyways, I am grateful for the POA and all they have done and continue to do for the residents.

It it were NOT for the Morses and their climb to huge financial success and achieving all of the things that folks on the other side of the aisle seem to hate; big business, tax breaks for big business etc. etc. etc.
All of us who live here wouldn't be living here in this very unusual situation, the first of this kind on earth..ever.

Maybe he is a smelly old goat who farts in public and scratches his fanny and doubles his negatives and kicks the dog. Maybe he doesn't go to church, imagine that, and fails to edge his lawn and does other nasty things beside contributing to the other political party. YOU don't know and I don't know and any information about the law suit is MUZZLED other than what we can read in the Orlando paper that I link time and time again. WHAT IF HE IS A NICE PERSON and the only thing that really makes you mad is his yacht and his airplanes and his huge financial success? What if he raised his kids to work hard and his grandkids to work hard and they also became financial successes. What if they are working now, just as he is except to sit down together on a Monday night and watch the granddaughter in her role on television and are proud that she too is earning a living. It really does not seem too different than our family.

My husband is still working at the age of 73, be it on the internet and the phone and trips on the airplane. Our granddaughter is employed in her dream job after interning on the Today show. We have worked hard, our kids are working hard and our grandkids worked all though high school and college even though they got scholarships and we could afford to fund them. I see the work ethic in this family. There is more to life than money. They appear to be achieving their dream of creating a place unlike any other on this earth in human history.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?????? What is right with that? I see a lot of good in them.

If I so hated the philosophy of someone who was this powerful in the community I lived in, I would move.

[Advogado]

Thanks. But you forgot about the part where they will accuse me of being jealous of the Developer or any other business person. To be precise, though, even some of the things that were mentioned that the poster assumed were "charitable" by the developer, some were not so. For example, when a development such as The Villages affects the road system, (adding 10,000/year to the driving population on the roads qualifies), a permit is required by the State or County, depending on which roads are affected, to mitigate such effects. Any improvements made to Route 301 would fall into that category - required by law in other words.

I realize that there are a certain number of posters who have their heads in the sand and foolishly think the Developer is some sort of benign king with our best interests at heart. "Don't worry, be happy, just turn off your brain" is their mantra. Some of us tend to be a little more cautious. Had the Developer been so altruistic, we never would have needed a class action lawsuit. The folks back then would have pointed out (and actually they did request but were denied) what was needed, that the funds hadn't been set aside for maintenance, and the Developer would have kicked in with a mea culpa, and everything would have been wonderful. But that didn't happen. He didn't voluntarily put up the funds that were allegedly misappropriated, he had to be prodded into it with a lawsuit. And that says something to me. Like I said, just being cautious.

Anyways, I am grateful for the POA and all they have done and continue to do for the residents.

Although they are residents of this community, I am unaware of any philanthropic actions on the part of the Developer family to benefit their community. I realize that they are under no obligation to contribute to local charitable or civic causes and they may be really nice people, but let's not view the Morse family as candidates for canonization.

They do have tremendous business acumen and have showed absolute genius in building a wonderful place for retirees to my live. From time to time, however, the Developer has tried to improperly profit at the expense of the Villagers. In those instances, the POA has stepped in on behalf of Villagers and rectified, or attempted to rectify, the situation.

BTW, it continues to amuse me that some posters here continue to attack the class-action lawsuit. Not one of these attackers, however, has returned his or her share of the settlement proceeds to the Developer.

[Moderator]

Just wondering how many TOTV are member of POA

Just reminding folks of the original post. This discussion has veered far off topic and will be closed if it continues to stray so far.

[mickey100]

Although they are residents of this community, I am unaware of any philanthropic actions on the part of the Developer family to benefit their community. I realize that they are under no obligation to contribute to local charitable or civic causes and they may be really nice people, but let's not view the Morse family as candidates for canonization.

They do have tremendous business acumen and have showed absolute genius in building a wonderful place for retirees to my live. From time to time, however, the Developer has tried to improperly profit at the expense of the Villagers. In those instances, the POA has stepped in on behalf of Villagers and rectified, or attempted to rectify, the situation.

BTW, it continues to amuse me that some posters here continue to attack the class-action lawsuit. Not one of these attackers, however, has returned his or her share of the settlement proceeds to the Developer.

That fuels my membership in POA, the way they keep on top of these "glitches" for want of a better term, regarding the Developer, and act in our best interests. I am not attacking the Developer, but these things have happened for whatever reason, and need to be rectified. The POA has been the organization that has kept tabs on things, documented the problems and initiated action when needed. That is huge.

[2BNTV]

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[graciegirl]

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Well 2B.

I will say this about that. I am not drawn to any organization where negativity is paramount. I don't see much positive from POA's advocates on this forum.

Xavier had a thoughtful post and so did Rubicon but then we got the same old gloom and doom from the same old people.

WHAT do you see around you? What do you experience here day to day?

WHERE ELSE WOULD OR COULD it be better than this?

Pass the popcorn. Got a Rolaids on ya?

[quirky3]

Getting back to the poll results....observing that (as of right now) 72% of the respondents have joined or plan to join the POA; 28% have not joined and do not plan to join. Interesting.

[graciegirl]

Getting back to the poll results....observing that (as of right now) 72% of the respondents have joined or plan to join the POA; 28% have not joined and do not plan to join. Interesting.

Makes you wonder doesn't it?

You think there are hanging chads?

[quirky3]

I like that you can see who voted in each category. Makes it seem like a pretty realistic result within that voting population.

[KeepingItReal]

Well 2B.

I will say this about that. I am not drawn to any organization where negativity is paramount. I don't see much positive from POA's advocates on this forum.

Xavier had a thoughtful post and so did Rubicon but then we got the same old gloom and doom from the same old people.

WHAT do you see around you? What do you experience here day to day?

WHERE ELSE WOULD OR COULD it be better than this?

Pass the popcorn. Got a Rolaids on ya?


After reading a few of the previous rants (before they were deleted) I have the feeling of being personally attacked and insulted by some of the statements made just because I support the POA. I have to wonder why anyone would think they have the right to do this especially since they certainly would fit in to the same old people group mentioned above as well. Don't like the POA don't join it, don't like the posts, don't read them, but the negative accusations being made are uncalled for and certainly are more negative toward the POA than anything they put out. Maybe the rainbows are just a little brighter in Laurel Valley than in some of the other areas but my account in my post is of my personal dealings with the Morse Empire and it was clear it was all about the money. I was basically treated like a nobody and brushed off by the Village Machine in my efforts to right a wrong to myself and that had been going on for years and only the certainty of a pending law suit being filed finally got their attention in the end. They finally did the right thing after 9 months of denying there was anything being done wrong. Janet Tutt, David Miles, The VCDD Attorney, Jennifer Morse Parr, and finally Gary Moyer were all involved in the process which eventually required the refunding of hundreds of thousands of dollars of overcharged bond interest to residents by the VCDD..The Villages is just another big business making all the money they can which is totally fine as long as it is done legally, honestly, and ethically. They are no better and no worse than any other big business and certainly warrant being watched. It is not a wonderland that suddenly appeared but was developed over time a little bit at a time and was paid for by the people that leased property, bought homes, and paid the fees, nothing was done for free. The profits were good and people wanted to buy the homes so it grew and continues to grow for the same reasons. Residents and businesses pay for it all.

Many residents have worked hard many years in one field or another and have done great things with many accomplishments but I did not see where it was even remotely relevant to post it on a thread only asking if you were or were not a member of the POA.

The POA has been there to correct problems that arose and it would be almost impossible to address a problem in a positive light as they would only be ignored. Some think it is possible only because they have never dealt with the business end of this land of OZ except to write a check to them..trying to get something changed or corrected that costs the developer a dollar is a totally different ballgame. As with a lot of things it is easy to condemn the POA until you have a serious problem with something they have addressed and then you'll want to go to them for help.

To these residents below, I hope you never have a problem, such as roofing shingles, siding, AC line set failures or anything in post # 50. You would have been up a creek without a paddle without the efforts of the POA.

I will never join
BobAllen1290, Bonny, Bucco, golf2140, golf4me, graciegirl, Mallory, Peachie, redwitch, telder, Thnonne

[graciegirl]

After reading a few of the previous rants (before they were deleted) I have the feeling of being personally attacked and insulted by some of the statements made just because I support the POA. I have to wonder why anyone would think they have the right to do this especially since they certainly would fit in to the same old people group mentioned above as well. Don't like the POA don't join it, don't like the posts, don't read them, but the negative accusations being made are uncalled for and certainly are more negative toward the POA than anything they put out. Maybe the rainbows are just a little brighter in Laurel Valley than in some of the other areas but my account in my post is of my personal dealings with the Morse Empire and it was clear it was all about the money. I was basically treated like a nobody and brushed off by the Village Machine in my efforts to right a wrong to myself and that had been going on for years and only the certainty of a pending law suit being filed finally got their attention in the end. They finally did the right thing after 9 months of denying there was anything being done wrong. Janet Tutt, David Miles, The VCDD Attorney, Jennifer Morse Parr, and finally Gary Moyer were all involved in the process which eventually required the refunding of hundreds of thousands of dollars of overcharged bond interest to residents by the VCDD..The Villages is just another big business making all the money they can which is totally fine as long as it is done legally, honestly, and ethically. They are no better and no worse than any other big business and certainly warrant being watched. It is not a wonderland that suddenly appeared but was developed over time a little bit at a time and was paid for by the people that leased property, bought homes, and paid the fees, nothing was done for free. The profits were good and people wanted to buy the homes so it grew and continues to grow for the same reasons. Residents and businesses pay for it all.

Many residents have worked hard many years in one field or another and have done great things with many accomplishments but I did not see where it was even remotely relevant to post it on a thread only asking if you were or were not a member of the POA.

The POA has been there to correct problems that arose and it would be almost impossible to address a problem in a positive light as they would only be ignored. Some think it is possible only because they have never dealt with the business end of this land of OZ except to write a check to them..trying to get something changed or corrected that costs the developer a dollar is a totally different ballgame. As with a lot of things it is easy to condemn the POA until you have a serious problem with something they have addressed and then you'll want to go to them for help.

To these residents below, I hope you never have a problem, such as roofing shingles, siding, AC line set failures or anything in post # 50. You would have been up a creek without a paddle without the efforts of the POA.

I will never join
BobAllen1290, Bonny, Bucco, golf2140, golf4me, graciegirl, Mallory, Peachie, redwitch, telder, Thnonne

How can we see who voted? I thought it was anonymous. Will you publish all results please?

I think we NEED a watchdog organization, but I don't like the rants and attacking style in SOME of the POA newsletters. Maybe new blood would bring it to a more palatable style for some of us. OR maybe someone will start a NEW one.

Handyman posted on here about the AC water lines problems according to him was not an issue that the POA helped much with. He investigated and found the answers by himself if I remember correctly.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/hvac-issue-42683/#post395857

The shingles were a problem by the manufacturer, Owens Corning, not by the builder.

The reason for the POA is an excellent one. I think they try. I just don't like a lot of things they choose as issues, such as The Parades and and how they present these issues. It is good to have them, but sometimes there aren't issues but the paper still comes out.

[zcaveman]

How can we see who voted? I thought it was anonymous. Will you publish all results please?

I think it is how thee OP sets up the poll. Go to the poll and click on the number on the right hand side and it will show the responders.

This option should probably be removed to protect the innocent.

Z

[Moderator]

All polls should be anonymous. We will see if the software can be modified to take away the public results option. For now, it has been changed to anonymous.

Moderator

[nitehawk]

How can we see who voted? I thought it was anonymous. Will you publish all results please?

I think we NEED a watchdog organization, but I don't like the rants and attacking style in SOME of the POA newsletters. Maybe new blood would bring it to a more palatable style for some of us. OR maybe someone will start a NEW one.

Handyman posted on here about the AC water lines problems according to him was not an issue that the POA helped much with. He investigated and found the answers by himself if I remember correctly.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/hvac-issue-42683/#post395857

The shingles were a problem by the manufacturer, Owens Corning, not by the builder.

The reason for the POA is an excellent one. I think they try. I just don't like a lot of things they choose as issues, such as The Parades and and how they present these issues. It is good to have them, but sometimes there aren't issues but the paper still comes out.
:boom:
""They have NEVER shown up at Crispers when I was there anyway..., and seem to relish their anonymous "jabs".""

[graciegirl]

:boom:
""they have never shown up at crispers when i was there anyway..., and seem to relish their anonymous "jabs".""

huh?

[nitehawk]

huh?

Taken from previous post
What motivates some posters?

All of us have read posts on this forum from posters who always seem to have a chip on their shoulders at best and seem downright mean, hostile, confrontational and almost cruel at worst.

They rarely have an avatar or a clue as to who they are, whether they live here, or why they seem so ANGRY.

In your opinion, what motivates them?

How should we respond?....if at all?

If you try to say anything, they usually say that people are bullies and try to flame them...when in truth is the things they post are so angry making so many times, it is hard to ignore them.

They have NEVER shown up at Crispers when I was there anyway..., and seem to relish their anonymous "jabs".

I am not talking about disagreeing, I am talking about stirring the pot.

[Warren Kiefer]

How can it be good? It IS good. If you want to see a mess, turn the running of this place over to the general population. I know of what I speak.

After reading a few of the previous rants (before they were deleted) I have the feeling of being personally attacked and insulted by some of the statements made just because I support the POA. I have to wonder why anyone would think they have the right to do this especially since they certainly would fit in to the same old people group mentioned above as well. Don't like the POA don't join it, don't like the posts, don't read them, but the negative accusations being made are uncalled for and certainly are more negative toward the POA than anything they put out. Maybe the rainbows are just a little brighter in Laurel Valley than in some of the other areas but my account in my post is of my personal dealings with the Morse Empire and it was clear it was all about the money. I was basically treated like a nobody and brushed off by the Village Machine in my efforts to right a wrong to myself and that had been going on for years and only the certainty of a pending law suit being filed finally got their attention in the end. They finally did the right thing after 9 months of denying there was anything being done wrong. Janet Tutt, David Miles, The VCDD Attorney, Jennifer Morse Parr, and finally Gary Moyer were all involved in the process which eventually required the refunding of hundreds of thousands of dollars of overcharged bond interest to residents by the VCDD..The Villages is just another big business making all the money they can which is totally fine as long as it is done legally, honestly, and ethically. They are no better and no worse than any other big business and certainly warrant being watched. It is not a wonderland that suddenly appeared but was developed over time a little bit at a time and was paid for by the people that leased property, bought homes, and paid the fees, nothing was done for free. The profits were good and people wanted to buy the homes so it grew and continues to grow for the same reasons. Residents and businesses pay for it all.

Many residents have worked hard many years in one field or another and have done great things with many accomplishments but I did not see where it was even remotely relevant to post it on a thread only asking if you were or were not a member of the POA.

The POA has been there to correct problems that arose and it would be almost impossible to address a problem in a positive light as they would only be ignored. Some think it is possible only because they have never dealt with the business end of this land of OZ except to write a check to them..trying to get something changed or corrected that costs the developer a dollar is a totally different ballgame. As with a lot of things it is easy to condemn the POA until you have a serious problem with something they have addressed and then you'll want to go to them for help.

To these residents below, I hope you never have a problem, such as roofing shingles, siding, AC line set failures or anything in post # 50. You would have been up a creek without a paddle without the efforts of the POA.

I will never join
BobAllen1290, Bonny, Bucco, golf2140, golf4me, graciegirl, Mallory, Peachie, redwitch, telder, Thnonne

Advogado and You have it right on the mark. But you both must realize when people are so entrenched in their thinking and not subjective to listening to any rational reasoning, they will never change. I am asking those above to tell me where they are purchasing their rose colored glasses, I have been looking for a pair for years, it would be fun to see things differently than they really are.. I am sure one of those persons above have several pair.:loco::girlneener:

[Moderator]

Too many personal and off topic replies on this thread.

The summary poll results should give the OP the answer he/see was seeking.

Thread closed.