Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2102324)

It is a pretty well established fact that criminals don't get their guns legally. There are criminal enterprises that provide guns to criminals in this country and in probably every other country in the world. Criminals know who these suppliers are because a gun is a tool of their trade. They have no problem obtaining a gun.

There are smugglers that routinely smuggle illegal firearms into Mexico, and Central and South America, many of which are full automatic firearms. China is one of the biggest sources for these firearms per the ATF and FBI. You can ban the AR15 or any other gun there is and criminal organizations will provide them to who ever has the money to buy them. The latest cowardly child murderer legally bought two high end AR15 rifles that retail for over $2,000 each so he could have easily paid the inflated price a smuggler would charge.
So how would a ban on certain guns or universal background checks prevent this cowardly child murderer from getting what he needed? Just like in any podunk farm town in the most remote areas of fly-over country, you can get any illegal drug your addiction desires and the junkies know where to get them. The same will be with guns.

We have a violence problem in this country that we better acknowledge and do the things necessary to change that instead of useless emotion based knee jerk reactions.

Did you notice I didn't call the murderer a "shooter" like the "if it bleeds it leads" sensationalism oriented media label them. I called him a cowardly child murderer because Shooter gives the connotation of a skilled assassin like in violent video games. The crime he committed should be called what it is, the act of a deranged coward. The medial feeds these evil people's need for recognition and in my opinion should be condemned as well as the killer.

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2102556)

I figure, by my logic, you put a stop sign AND a red light at the intersection. Most people will stop. But even with both, there will be those who blow through the intersection.
More laws don’t mean people will automatically follow the laws.

We have laws, but I can still go into south central LA, south Chicago, west Philly and buy a gun illegally.
I almost guarantee, you can not get a gun illegally in The Villages, because most residents follow the law.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2102336)

Doesn't change the fact that if someone needs a gun to commit an act of violence and can't get it legally, they will be able to get from an illegal source.

We have a higher rate of gun deaths vs other industrialized countries, but we also have a higher rate of deaths by other means. Why is that? As I have stated numerous times on these threads about guns, we have a violence problem and it doesn't take a rocket scientist or even the IQ of a stupid chimpanzee to see that. Yet this country won't address that fact or make any attempt to fix the problem.

Originally Posted by Tvflguy (Post 2102471)

Would YOU put a sign on your front door. “Gun/free Zone”. Hmm.

Originally Posted by Tvflguy (Post 2102471)

Would YOU put a sign on your front door. “Gun/free Zone”. Hmm.

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2102157)

...
I am 100% in favor of strongly enforced universal background checks. It will NOT solve the problem, it will help.
...

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe (Post 2102619)

Does this "100% in favor..." comment of yours apply to drivers' licenses and voting registration also? If not, why not?

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe (Post 2101758)

Oh Geez, that's easy. You're not gonna like the answer though:

1. Two-parent homes for raising children;
2. A stay-at home parent;
3. Put away "participation trophies" and teach kids that heartbreak and losing are life lessons and doing so gracefully is important;
4. Return to discipline. Kids are your responsibility to society, NOT your new cuddly best friend for you to pamper and indulge;
5. Return to a shared moral code. In the past, it was Christianity and regular church attendance;
6. Return to community norms. No more, "but it's their culture to be rude" excuses. Abide by community standards or face social ostracism;
7. A return to accountability and personal responsibility for one's actions and behaviors.

Originally Posted by jebartle (Post 2101750)

Tulsa, OK, hospital, 4 killed.....what is the answer to these Killings

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2102550)

Agree completely.

"Social media". The ultimate oxymoron.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2102590)

I mean - do you really not know that there are criminals living in the Villages?

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe (Post 2102617)

Or the equal "Come victimize me!" sign, the Co-exist sticker. That just tells me the occupant of the car/home will let me do as I want if they feel sorry for me or I am in a traditionally under-represented group. Heck, the Co-exist sticker guy probably won't even call the cops on me.

I heard a lawyer one time talking about having his car stolen. It was found, severely damaged, about 4 blocks from where it was stolen. The lawyer's reaction? "That guy must have needed it (the car) more than I did." Really? No, that guy took your property and went for a joyride that ended poorly and cost the lawyer money." The thief did not NEED the car to get to a job, or bring food home to his family or take them to urgent medical care.

Some people just insist on being victims, and then some even more exceptional ones advertise they want to be victims (Gun free zone / co-exist stickers). Those signs/stickers just tell me the possessor is a moron.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2102553)

Actually, the 2nd Amendment said that STATE militiamen were entitled to "bear" their arms. Their arms were black powder muskets that were single shot and required a long time to reload and malfunctioned often. They had an accuracy range of about 50 meters. Nothing in the 2nd Amendment said that "individuals" should "bear arms". That is just the NRA's convenient interpretation.
..........Today's arms shoot with each trigger pull for a possible rate of fire of 45 shots per minute with little recoil and accuracy out to about 500 meters.
............The 2nd Amendment was purposely written ambiguously for its long-ago time. It did NOT come down from GOD and written in stone, like MANY WOULD LIKE US TO BELIEVE.

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2102551)

Half the US gun deaths occur in 100 cities, where about 25% of the population lives. It’s definitely a violence problem, and a lack of respect for life. (Data is from 2015 - it might be more skewed now - I know in Phila gun deaths are up about 100% since 2015, probable the same in most cities)

Here’s the research
Want to fix gun violence in America? Go local. | US gun control | The Guardian

Originally Posted by MrFlorida (Post 2103071)

Mandatory 20 year jail sentence for anybody comiting a crime with a gun, these outlaws have no fear, make an example out of them.

Originally Posted by Lindsyburnsy (Post 2102958)

So, we can cure all this violence by going backward in time to the 1950s? No thank you.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2102553)

Actually, the 2nd Amendment said that STATE militiamen were entitled to "bear" their arms. Their arms were black powder muskets that were single shot and required a long time to reload and malfunctioned often. They had an accuracy range of about 50 meters. Nothing in the 2nd Amendment said that "individuals" should "bear arms". That is just the NRA's convenient interpretation.
..........Today's arms shoot with each trigger pull for a possible rate of fire of 45 shots per minute with little recoil and accuracy out to about 500 meters.
............The 2nd Amendment was purposely written ambiguously for its long-ago time. It did NOT come down from GOD and written in stone, like MANY WOULD LIKE US TO BELIEVE.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2103127)

Wrong and wrong. That's NOT what the 2nd amendment states or means. At the time it was written, we did not have a standing army. "Militias" were raised when a call went out for volunteers, many of whom were just farmers and frontiersman. That "militia" did not have an arsenal to hand out guns, the volunteers had to bring their own. Therefore, INDIVIDUALS were guaranteed the right to "bear arms", not just "state militiamen". In 1787, unless you were a city dweller, a gun was a necessity---hunting for food, protection against whomever, etc. Even 100 years later in the "wild west", the 2 most heinous crimes (punishable by hanging) were horse theft and gun theft, because without either you had a very short life expectancy. As Obi Wan Kenobi siad to Anikan Skywalker in Star Wars episode 2 after retrieving his light saber---"This weapon is your life"

Full disclosure----I've never even held a gun in my hand.

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2103078)

One of the biggest problems, in my opinion, is that it seems most of the time, when a crime is committed with a gun, the crime (usually in reduced form) is consequated but the criminal act of using a gun in the commission of the crime(s) is not, usually either dropped or plea-bargained away. For myself I would like to see it made mandatory that whenever a crime is committed with a gun, that fact alone should result in an additional ten years tacked on to the sentence for the commission of the crime, no exceptions.

Originally Posted by Lindsyburnsy (Post 2102954)

Stop easy access to guns and start up the ban again on AR type weapons that blast people to smithereens in seconds. This doesn't happen in other countries and it shouldn't happen in the U.S.

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2103066)

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The word "State", as used above, refers to the nation. Every right in the Bill of Rights protects the American people against Government overreach or oppression. It would be illogical to believe that only one of those ten rights, the Second Amendment, does not.

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2103097)

I don't think anyone would advocate turning the clock back to the 50s across the board , but when you have a problem that you did not have before it seems logical and insightful to examine what changes were made and how to make corrections/ adjustments, we learn from mistakes, unintended consequences

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2103127)

Wrong and wrong. That's NOT what the 2nd amendment states or means. At the time it was written, we did not have a standing army. "Militias" were raised when a call went out for volunteers, many of whom were just farmers and frontiersman. That "militia" did not have an arsenal to hand out guns, the volunteers had to bring their own. Therefore, INDIVIDUALS were guaranteed the right to "bear arms", not just "state militiamen". In 1787, unless you were a city dweller, a gun was a necessity---hunting for food, protection against whomever, etc. Even 100 years later in the "wild west", the 2 most heinous crimes (punishable by hanging) were horse theft and gun theft, because without either you had a very short life expectancy. As Obi Wan Kenobi siad to Anikan Skywalker in Star Wars episode 2 after retrieving his light saber---"This weapon is your life"

Full disclosure----I've never even held a gun in my hand.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2103183)

I don't have a problem with the right to "bear arms". When the 2nd amendment was written "arms" were single shot. I would be fine with single-shot arms. I have a problem with 30 round magazines.

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2103137)

Good points.

Another point that could be made, in relation to the ones in this post, regards the actual weapons themselves. People sometimes state that the Second Amendment was written to reflect the arms of the time, muzzle-loading muskets, shotguns, the ubiquitous "Brown Bess" British musket which was used by the British (and some of the opposing colonists as well). True enough. But what ISN'T mentioned is the fact that a lot of the colonists used the Pennsylvania Rifle, which was a far superior weapon to the Brown Bess. The Bess was accurate to maybe 50 yards. After that it was anyone's guess as to where the ball was going. The Pennsylvania Rifle, on the other hand, was accurate to several hundreds of yards beyond that.

The point is that, at the time the Second Amendment was written, the American colonists possessed a weapon that was in many ways SUPERIOR to the best the British armies had.

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2103148)

A lot of things are involved, you do a felony and five other crimes in connection, arrested and charges accordingly , your attorney and the States Attorney could very well agree that you take a plea on one or more, the others are dropped, lots of good reason to do so, for one, even if found guilty on all five many times the judge will have all the sentences for all five to run consecutively, all at the same time rather than concurrently , one after the other, quantity discount for the criminality inclined

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2103232)

Also, the US has the highest % of incarcerated people. So, maybe there is NOT enough rehabilitation going on in US prisons. The US may see a criminal as a "throw-away" resource, while other countries may see a criminal as a"renewable" resource.

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe (Post 2101758)

Oh Geez, that's easy. You're not gonna like the answer though:

1. Two-parent homes for raising children;
2. A stay-at home parent;
3. Put away "participation trophies" and teach kids that heartbreak and losing are life lessons and doing so gracefully is important;
4. Return to discipline. Kids are your responsibility to society, NOT your new cuddly best friend for you to pamper and indulge;
5. Return to a shared moral code. In the past, it was Christianity and regular church attendance;
6. Return to community norms. No more, "but it's their culture to be rude" excuses. Abide by community standards or face social ostracism;
7. A return to accountability and personal responsibility for one's actions and behaviors.

Originally Posted by SickTime (Post 2103324)

I Agree with This. Until we figure out how to do everything on the list, I would suggest hiring armed security in all schools. If that is to costly for your school district then give Teachers who want to be trained in the use of weapons and be trained in "active shooter" an incentive to want to be able to save their own lives as well as the students. there are many solutions along this line. Stop blaming the gun and start protecting our children. Just my opinion of course.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2103183)

I don't have a problem with the right to "bear arms". When the 2nd amendment was written "arms" were single shot. I would be fine with single-shot arms. I have a problem with 30 round magazines. The only person that NEEDS a 30-round magazine is a person that is going to shoot into a crowd. (that happened this weekend with one drive-by MASS shooting
and several similar shootings into crowds) Would a hunter or person defending their home NEED a 30-round magazine?..........answer NO! Their home might be intruded by one or two people, but NOT by a CROWD, Only a DOMESTIC TERRORIST needs a 30-round Mag.
...........The US is getting tired of baby killers and the answer is to look at what Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and the UK have done!

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2102997)

The co-exist sticker means the person displaying it is open-minded and acknowledges that "other" is not a dirty word. Variety is the spice of life. Enjoy your white bread with unsalted butter.

Originally Posted by jebartle (Post 2101750)

Tulsa, OK, hospital, 4 killed.....what is the answer to these Killings

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2102631)

I believe that the 2020 election was the safest in history.

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2101765)

And do you have any suggestions for how to accomplish that? Because, while most people will agree those would be wonderful things to do, it doesn't help the walking dead people that will be murdered next week, and those the next week, etc etc etc.

We need suggestions of actions we can take now to help the situation.