Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2100351)

Here is an interesting bit of firearm history a friend sent me:

What changed? Society and moral values have changed and not for the good. So easy to blame an inanimate object than to work on correcting the real problem. Gun bans, mental pablum for simple minds.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2100351)

Here is an interesting bit of firearm history a friend sent me:

"A hundred and twelve years ago, in 1907...our great grandparents were first able to the semi-auto Winchester Model 1907.
This is a gun they could buy from a Sears catalogue and have delivered via US Post. It was/ is a semi-automatic, high powered centerfire rifle, with detachable, high capacity magazine.
About 400,000 semi-automatic rifles were produced before WW2. Civilians had hundreds of thousands of these for 40 years, while US soldiers were still being issued old fashioned bolt action rifles.
The 1907 fired just as fast as an AR15 or AK47 and the bullet (.351 Winchester) was actually larger than those fired by the more modern looking weapons..
The ONLY functional difference between the 1907 and a controversial and much feared AR15 is the modern black plastic stock.

The semi auto, so-called "assault rifle" is 110 years old. It isnt new in any way.
The semi auto rifle was not a weapon of war. The government MADE IT a weapon of war 40 years after civilians had them.
The semi-auto can be safely owned by civilians. The proof is that literally 3 generations of adults owned and used them responsibly and no one ever even noticed.
Want to fix the horror of mass shootings? Fix the things that have changed in society for the worse in the last 50 years."

As I pointed out earlier, after WWII millions of semi automatic M1 Carbines were sold to the American public with 15 and 30 round magazines. You could buy them from catalogs and gun magazine ads and have them shipped directly to your home by the US Postal Service. Using all the illogic in this thread there should have been hundreds of shootings using the Model 1907 and M1 Carbine. What changed? Society and moral values have changed and not for the good. So easy to blame an inanimate object than to work on correcting the real problem. Gun bans, mental pablum for simple minds.

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 2100363)

Charles Whitman in the U of Texas tower and his actions changed things a lot. University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2100351)

Here is an interesting bit of firearm history a friend sent me:

"A hundred and twelve years ago, in 1907...our great grandparents were first able to the semi-auto Winchester Model 1907.
This is a gun they could buy from a Sears catalogue and have delivered via US Post. It was/ is a semi-automatic, high powered centerfire rifle, with detachable, high capacity magazine.
About 400,000 semi-automatic rifles were produced before WW2. Civilians had hundreds of thousands of these for 40 years, while US soldiers were still being issued old fashioned bolt action rifles.
The 1907 fired just as fast as an AR15 or AK47 and the bullet (.351 Winchester) was actually larger than those fired by the more modern looking weapons..
The ONLY functional difference between the 1907 and a controversial and much feared AR15 is the modern black plastic stock.

The semi auto, so-called "assault rifle" is 110 years old. It isnt new in any way.
The semi auto rifle was not a weapon of war. The government MADE IT a weapon of war 40 years after civilians had them.
The semi-auto can be safely owned by civilians. The proof is that literally 3 generations of adults owned and used them responsibly and no one ever even noticed.
Want to fix the horror of mass shootings? Fix the things that have changed in society for the worse in the last 50 years."

As I pointed out earlier, after WWII millions of semi automatic M1 Carbines were sold to the American public with 15 and 30 round magazines. You could buy them from catalogs and gun magazine ads and have them shipped directly to your home by the US Postal Service. Using all the illogic in this thread there should have been hundreds of shootings using the Model 1907 and M1 Carbine. What changed? Society and moral values have changed and not for the good. So easy to blame an inanimate object than to work on correcting the real problem. Gun bans, mental pablum for simple minds.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2100309)

Crime should have been rampant during the Great Depression but from what I've read about that period of economic catastrophe, there wasn't a drastic rise in crime.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100509)

In 1929 the ratio of guns per person was probably less than .25 - today it is 1.2 guns per person in the US. Yes, the "times they are a-changing"!

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2100354)

Untrue, although this took more than just a few seconds to check. This story is the #1 story on the entire first page of a google search. Digging just one layer deeper, I found that the AR-15 has a thing called a direct gas impingement used in the cycling and piston and bolt and some other mechanics that I don't even try to understand and don't care about.

What's interesting about it isn't what it is. It's that it was patented in the 1956. It didn't exist for the 50 years of the Winchester 1907's manufacture, until 4 years before the Winchester 1907 was retired. And - it was introduced by Colt, not Winchester.

So no, they're not exactly the same. They don't look the same, they didn't come with the same components, didn't fire the same ammo, didn't have the same weight, didn't have the same thrust, didn't have the same method of (whatever it is that bolts and pistons do).

The only thing they had in common is that they're both semi-automatic rifles.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2100321)

The long bow was a devastating weapon used by the English army. Armies of those times had huge wooden hammers called War Hammers that crushed skulls and shattered bones. The Mace, a large iron ball with spikes that was attached to a chain and swung by the soldier penetrating medieval armor crushing skulls and shattered bones. All kinds of knives and swords have been used as a weapon of war.

Nearly every firearm that has been made was a weapon of war so claiming the AR 15 is a weapon of war doesn't make it any different that say an M1 Carbine. In case you don't know, the M1 Carbine was a semi automatic rifle and the M2 Carbine was full automatic. The M1 and M2 carbines originally came with 15 round magazines and later in the war, 30 round magazines Carbines were sold in the millions as surplus after the war and how in many "mass shootings" have you ever heard about them being used?

You totally ignore the fact that kings and dictators over the centuries have banned the ownership of weapons by their subjects. They didn't want anybody challenging their power. If you don't think our government would never turn into a dictatorship you are totally naive when it comes to human nature and the desire for power.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100526)

..........Anyway, the easiest, least bloody, and best way to prevent a dictatorship is by votes, not bullets.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2100530)

That is exactly how Hitler came to power, voted into office by the citizens of Germany. And, once he became the Fuhrer, he enacted gun control laws that removed guns from the hands of the German people and the Jews. We all know what happened to the Jews.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2100526)

Actually, I think that it is now about 50 / 50 whether from 2024 on the US will BECOME a dictatorship. And I think that is the likely reason why the last 2 years have shown such a big increase in GUN OWNERSHIP - from 300 million to 400 million. So, I agree about that. And I agree that the Viet Cong rebels fought back with lower-tech battlefield equipment, mostly GUNS. And they used a BOLT-ACTION Mosin-Nagant rifle for sniper use.
..........So, IF (a BIG if) the US has a Dictatorship around 2026, then the rebels should be stacking up on long-range
sniper-type BOLT-ACTION rifles rather than the short-range military-style semi-autos.
..........Anyway, the easiest, least bloody, and best way to prevent a dictatorship is by votes, not bullets.

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 2100351)

Here is an interesting bit of firearm history a friend sent me:

"A hundred and twelve years ago, in 1907...our great grandparents were first able to the semi-auto Winchester Model 1907.
This is a gun they could buy from a Sears catalogue and have delivered via US Post. It was/ is a semi-automatic, high powered centerfire rifle, with detachable, high capacity magazine.
About 400,000 semi-automatic rifles were produced before WW2. Civilians had hundreds of thousands of these for 40 years, while US soldiers were still being issued old fashioned bolt action rifles.
The 1907 fired just as fast as an AR15 or AK47 and the bullet (.351 Winchester) was actually larger than those fired by the more modern looking weapons..
The ONLY functional difference between the 1907 and a controversial and much feared AR15 is the modern black plastic stock.

The semi auto, so-called "assault rifle" is 110 years old. It isnt new in any way.
The semi auto rifle was not a weapon of war. The government MADE IT a weapon of war 40 years after civilians had them.
The semi-auto can be safely owned by civilians. The proof is that literally 3 generations of adults owned and used them responsibly and no one ever even noticed.
Want to fix the horror of mass shootings? Fix the things that have changed in society for the worse in the last 50 years."

As I pointed out earlier, after WWII millions of semi automatic M1 Carbines were sold to the American public with 15 and 30 round magazines. You could buy them from catalogs and gun magazine ads and have them shipped directly to your home by the US Postal Service. Using all the illogic in this thread there should have been hundreds of shootings using the Model 1907 and M1 Carbine. What changed? Society and moral values have changed and not for the good. So easy to blame an inanimate object than to work on correcting the real problem. Gun bans, mental pablum for simple minds.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2100354)

Untrue, although this took more than just a few seconds to check. This story is the #1 story on the entire first page of a google search. Digging just one layer deeper, I found that the AR-15 has a thing called a direct gas impingement used in the cycling and piston and bolt and some other mechanics that I don't even try to understand and don't care about.

What's interesting about it isn't what it is. It's that it was patented in the 1956. It didn't exist for the 50 years of the Winchester 1907's manufacture, until 4 years before the Winchester 1907 was retired. And - it was introduced by Colt, not Winchester.

So no, they're not exactly the same. They don't look the same, they didn't come with the same components, didn't fire the same ammo, didn't have the same weight, didn't have the same thrust, didn't have the same method of (whatever it is that bolts and pistons do).

The only thing they had in common is that they're both semi-automatic rifles.