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bpascani 06-11-2020 09:27 AM

I don't thing American History or World History are taught in jr or high school anymore, not even civics...oddly enough, social studies is!!

charlieo1126@gmail.com 06-11-2020 09:31 AM

I don’t mind a few statues honoring the common southern soldier , but the statues of generals and southern political leaders should never be in a public place, put them in a private museum for a teaching moment . Jefferson Davis and Robert E Lee should have been hanged or spent long years in prison for the evil destruction they caused, so rich men could go on living a lifestyle off cheap labor . No other country in the world would honor the traitors in there countries like we do. Walk through any town in New England , and look at the long list of deaths caused by the so called Noble Cause of the Confederacy.

jimjamuser 06-11-2020 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikeracer2009 (Post 1781771)
I grew up in Richmond Va and at one time I live near Monument Avenue. I had some black friends growing up and did see things from their point of view. It was odd to see a statue of Arthur Ashe being installed not far from the Confederate statues. To me it was just history, to my friends it was a painful reminder of a time when their race was treated like property.
I would tell them that words had no power until you give it power over you and to ignore racism etc. It's easy for me to say. I could give examples one after another to share what I saw happen to my black friends throughout the years but I don't think it would help you understand what it's like living in your country that doesn't understand what it's like being black. I do see the crime, social services abuse and the other statistics whites point to. I can tell that a black child isn't born that way.

At some point our country has to take some crazy measures to try and fix what's going on. I don't have the answers but if getting rid of symbols that upset the black race and addressing racism openly helps get some healing then I'm all for it.

I'm not a historian or statistician so my opinions are not coming from an expert.

Great post! As to answers, I have multiple suggestions. Around 1965 civil rights legislation advanced social integration. A big problem was not legislating for ALL new neighborhood/developments needed to have rentals and houses filled by people in the % proportion that the nearby older city and area had. If 15% Black then they ONLY get 15% of the new house. Then 70 or whatever % would be White. And then Asian and Brown and etc. The point being the '60s was a great time to REALLY integrate and blend. It did NOT happen. That was a HUGE social failure and opportunity. It haunts us today. we have white ghettos and black ghettos
in many cities. The alternative of busing cost too much and accomplished too little. Busing lead to privileged charter schools and home schooling, again too costly in resources and social stability.
I have many other solution-like to look at Europe for their better social solution. Like strong unions in Germany yet little strife between unions and managemen/owners. Germany makes better automobiles than the US. Why not give them some credit and mimic that which they do right. Their is to much ethno-centricity and jingoism clouding our eyes. .....sermon over, thank you.

jimjamuser 06-11-2020 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedrocarrasco01@yahoo.com (Post 1781801)
A Communist-Fascist trait is to erase all history, Yes Hitler burned books, Stalin toppled statues and controlled all schools teaching, any teachers that deviate from their mandate in Russia were sent to a Gulag in Germany they were taken by the Gestapo and beaten badly. In Cuba the G2 would jail and beat you badly to ensure that you would comply, all books were rewritten and all their leaders were exalted as heroes. Please don’t say “it won’t happen here” that is what the Cuban people said 70 years ago. I know, I was in Cuba then!!!!!!!!!!! God Bless America

Good for you. I lived in Miami for a while. Cubans are smart, beautiful people.

Byte1 06-11-2020 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1781950)
That is a good post. I would like to add my opinion (worth 2 cents). Am agnostic about the statues. But like to add that it believed that the Vikings set foot on North America 1st. Also, Asian people crossed the land bridge (now the Bering Strait) into Alaska then to Ca., the West and then the east. Then became named Indians and redmen, and etc...blah..blah. So, my opinion is that they were the 1st.
The Vikings and the Indians had no one person like Columbus who could be commemorated with a statue. Plus he was European, which was the dominant area at the time. The History of America was written by the winning or dominate culture. So, US History picked one person to focus on and it was Columbus.

Good post. I would like to suggest that Columbus is recognized as being the first in his world (Europe) to discover the New World, not the first to venture into what is now known as America. And I do believe that I recall some place up North where there is mention, or a monument that suggests that the Vikings (Northsmen?) were early explorers on this continent. I also was taught that Asians (?) migrated to this continent when the continents were connected and became what we now call American Indians, or for those that are PC, indigenous natives. American history is fascinating and if taught by a good teacher, does not have to be embarrassing. Our fore fathers thought they were doing a good thing, regardless of how we see it now. It should not be changed if we are to learn how to correct our current conduct. The TRUTH should not hurt but it should lead to enlightenment.

Byte1 06-11-2020 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1782032)
Good for you. I lived in Miami for a while. Cubans are smart, beautiful people.

And I love their version of the empanada. :coolsmiley:

jimjamuser 06-11-2020 09:50 AM

ditto that

cathy34787 06-11-2020 09:52 AM

I think it’s interesting that my grandchildren are colorblind and that they acquired that attitude from their parents. Schools teach nothing but how to pass tests that are state mandated. There is no context today for what happened in the past. It’s shameful actually.

Byte1 06-11-2020 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrg908369 (Post 1781756)
As a southerner born and raised I always wondered why we named military bases after losing generals. And why we put up statutes to losers. Made no sense to me. I was a history major in college and a history buff and I don't see statutes of Hitler in Germany or Mussolini in Italy. They are embarrassed and did something about it. I guess you are also upset that NASCAR has banned the confederate flag and all confederate stuff from their race tracks?

If losers are bad, does that mean that we should take Gen. Custer out of our history books? Perhaps we should never speak of Sitting Bull again? Didn't we lose something like 50,000 American casualties in the battle of Gettysburg?
Just being facetious, but it is my opinion that we leave history alone and use it to learn from it. If statues of slave owners bother some as being embarrassing, then perhaps wearing African colors by those that had ancestors that were sold into slavery by Africans should also be avoided? Just a thought, not attempting to insult anyone.

jimjamuser 06-11-2020 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regas56 (Post 1781901)
If we rid ourselves of all the proof of the atrocities of our past then in the future we will know longer have the reminders or the proof that they truly did happen.. In today's world if you can't prove it most will argue it didn't happen. What then pray tell will we use as our crutch or our excuse for the failures we're sure to face? If we ask WHY do you want to destroy that statue or burn that book the answer is always, we no longer want the memory of our oppression, yet you passionately continue to support the very party that willingly went to war, killed their own brothers, fathers or sons and died by the 100's of 1000's to keep you oppressed. How does that not remind you of your past oppression?

Can you say beware the military-industrial complex? Dwight D. said it and then people forgot it I say--Beware the all-volunteer Military. It could become mercenary and bite US society into something we would NOT LIKE!

Byte1 06-11-2020 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1782023)
Great post! As to answers, I have multiple suggestions. Around 1965 civil rights legislation advanced social integration. A big problem was not legislating for ALL new neighborhood/developments needed to have rentals and houses filled by people in the % proportion that the nearby older city and area had. If 15% Black then they ONLY get 15% of the new house. Then 70 or whatever % would be White. And then Asian and Brown and etc. The point being the '60s was a great time to REALLY integrate and blend. It did NOT happen. That was a HUGE social failure and opportunity. It haunts us today. we have white ghettos and black ghettos
in many cities. The alternative of busing cost too much and accomplished too little. Busing lead to privileged charter schools and home schooling, again too costly in resources and social stability.
I have many other solution-like to look at Europe for their better social solution. Like strong unions in Germany yet little strife between unions and managemen/owners. Germany makes better automobiles than the US. Why not give them some credit and mimic that which they do right. Their is to much ethno-centricity and jingoism clouding our eyes. .....sermon over, thank you.

It seems to me that we had a lot to do with rebuilding Germany after the war.

I do not see unions as being any answer today. They had their day, but not anymore.

jimjamuser 06-11-2020 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Leinsing (Post 1781948)
I answered the call in 1966 and joined the NH Air National Guard while still in college. So that meant put of graduation and devote some time helping our country with the war effort...whether I agreed if we should be in this war or not. We were told we weren’t allowed to wear our uniforms off base and when we did people called us baby killers. I put in an extra year and came out in 1973. Even though I wore the uniform, had the Vietnam ribbon, and worked on the aircraft sending supplies over seas, I am not considered a Vet. The American Legion says I am not a vet...But thank you for your service. The Veterans Administration says I am not a vet but thank you for your service. Why? Not a day of Active Duty service on my DD214. What? Thank you for your service...now stop complaining. Inside I did my part...outside I am embarrassed. Hard to forget.

Sorry hombre, that is a rip-off. Like a "catch 22".

Ajiveson 06-11-2020 10:21 AM

I don’t understand the tie in of not wanting to glorify the past and serving in the armed forces.

ALadysMom 06-11-2020 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 1781702)
Lol... the Communist do this type of thing so much better. They just rewrite history to say the way they think it SHOULD have happened. Then teach it at school as if it did.

Stay tuned. That’s next.

jimjamuser 06-11-2020 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1782054)
It seems to me that we had a lot to do with rebuilding Germany after the war.

I do not see unions as being any answer today. They had their day, but not anymore.

That could? be correct about OUR unions, but THEIR unions ??? I never lived in Germany, but I have read about them. My general statement was for the US to be able to adopt the best parts of European society and infuse it with the best parts of our society. Finland and Sweden have good ideas also. Norway Has have zero incidents of Police killing any citizen in about 10 years.


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