Not only is the breathing in of polluted gas exhaust a bad thing for human health. And the smaller engine vehicles like GOLF CARTS, lawnmowers, and gas blowers produce a GREAT amount of bad air to breathe. The CO2 rises and hurts humans again by warming the planet (like we experienced this summer in the entire southern half of the US).

As electric vehicles become more common, experts worry they could pose a safety risk for other drivers - CBS News
As heavy EVs proliferate, their weight may be a drag on safety

I had my first Tesla for 7 years (135,000 miles) and my daily charge capacity went from 220 miles down to 216 miles.

Translation - In 7 years my battery dropped 4 miles of charging capacity. I can't say for sure how long it will last because I traded it in for a new Tesla but I would guess it had many years of useful life left. Longer than I want a car.

It's NOT a good analogy. In Antarctica, the ice is on top of firm ground. That would be like having an ice cube sitting on top of a slide dumping into a glass - then as that ice cube melted, the water level WOULD GO UP. Anyway, it is a KNOWN fact that in the last 10 years, the earth's ocean level has gone up. And at an INCREASING rate (enough to scare scientists) each succeeding year. And remember that we had a RECORD hot summer in the US and the whole world. Well, that is predicted to continue for , at least, the next 8 years.
......I hope that this helps.

Your source is not a legitimate conveyer of factual information. There is no truth to what you posted. Do some legitimate fact checking before you post garbage!

Interesting, just how quickly these discussions become adversarial. They don't have to be. The fact of the matter is that ownership of an EV, or an ICE, makes more or less sense depending on the needs of the consumer. It is NOT a "one size fits all" issue. There is more than ample room for both.

One big issue is weather. EVs make much more sense in states like Florida, where the weather rarely goes below freezing even in the middle of winter. Cold weather takes a toll on an EV: if you're out driving when it is -20 F. the range of your EV is going to go down. The most obvious reason is that a lot more energy will be used just to keep the occupants warm and the windows defrosted, but there is more to it than that. Energy is needed to keep the battery warm as well; "EVs are designed to heat or cool off the battery in order for the battery to perform at its best. And because the optimal temperature for most batteries is between 15 and 30 degrees celsius, part of the energy is used to cover this need." (monta dot com). Add to that the fact that distances traveled here in Florida are less overall than in, say, North Dakota, Minnesota or Wyoming, for example, and a winter road trip in an EV in below-zero conditions all of a sudden poses dangers and challenges that just aren't there in an ICE-powered vehicle.

I'd certainly consider owning an EV here in Florida. Back home in Minnesota? Nope.

But heat is a killer of batteries.

Heat is worse for car batteries than cold | verifythis.com.

Sophistic. The article quoted is referring to how heat damages batteries by evaporating the electrolyte. However EV batteries don't contain liquid electrolyte:

"With a chemical reaction very similar to lithium-ion technology, solid state EV batteries replace the liquid-based electrolyte with a solid one." EV battery guide: what are electric car batteries made of? - RAC

From the article:

Yes, heat is worse for car batteries than cold. Heat is the number one culprit behind car battery failure because high temperatures can evaporate your battery's vital fluids and weaken its charge.

There really is not a lot of lithium evaporating from EV batteries.

Heat is bad for lithium batteries as well which we all know from experience with our cell phones. It *seems* like the Teslas attempt to deal with this. Walking through a parking lot yesterday I passed two Teslas with fans blowing but no occupants. At the time I thought it might be to keep the cabin cool in anticipation of the drivers returning. Now I wonder if the car was trying to keep the batteries cool.

Not exactly.

Some calculate an equivalent cost per gallon like this:
- A typical EV gets 4 miles per kWH
- One kWH might cost 12 cents
- That make about 3 cents per mile for the "fuel" for the electric vehicle
- A typical gasoline car gets 30 mpg
- At 4 cents per mile and 30 mpg you get an equivalent cost per gallon of $1.21 for the electric vehicle (if gas was $1.21/gallon then the 30mpg car and the EV would have the same cost per mile)
- The article uses this number

The article says that the cost of electricity isn't the only cost. It claims the price of an EV is subsidized in many ways like Federal tax rebates, not paying gas taxes, not paying for the electric company to build a bigger infrastructure, and even penalties imposed on car manufacturers. The article says that when you add all these up they show that your EV is receiving $48K of free benefits. Rather than claiming the EV should cost $48K more, the article computes an equivalent cost per gallon of $17.33.

No one is paying $17.33 for gas.
No one is paying $17.33 for electricity.
In fact, no one is paying the $48K the article calculates.
The article just attributes this cost to the EV in order to come up with a scary number.

Good job article used US price for electricity.
In UK our price is around 41 cents a kWH

Ouch! If I remember correctly your gasoline is also more expensive but not by a factor of four (not $12/gal), right? So the savings in fuel would not be as great for you.

EV batteries degrade faster in hot weather: What owners can do.

That’s why I always store the batteries for our power tools and e bikes inside the house during the hotter months when they aren’t being used. I figure either way, if they start on fire the house is cooked regardless of whether the fire starts in the garage or a spare bedroom and they are less likely to combust if kept cool.

One factor that this study FAILED to acknowledge is that although the EV is heavier than an equivalent ICE vehicle, the EV has a LOWER center of gravity, which allows the EV to STOP better than the ICE vehicle. The lower center of gravity makes up for the greater weight of the EV. And if an ice vehicle hits an EV, then the greater weight of the EV tends to be PROTECTIVE for its passengers.

Not to dance around the question, but it's largely irrelevant.

When you drive around home, you plug it in when you're done, so it's always got a "full tank" (although you rarely, if ever charge it to 100%. I'm usually charged to around 60%, that's plenty.)

When you're traveling, the Tesla adds the superchargers to the trip according to temperature, elevation, traffic, charger utilization, wind speed and direction, driving style, among other factors. It even adjusts as you're driving.

When we travel, we find charge locations are spaced out around the same amount of time we'd like to use the bathroom and stretch our legs. So we stop, plug in, use the restroom, get a snack, and when we're done, the car is usually ready for the next leg of the trip.

All those negative factors are NOT true, but even if they were, then in another 2 years the playing field will completely change (improve) for EVs -- better batteries that are lighter, better and cheaper charging stations. Lower cost because they are easier to manufacture.

About double.

Coal and gas better last for ever cause they won’t be anything electric with out it.

What is said about low temp affecting EV battery performance is TRUE......for today, but I believe that in the NEAR future that most all EV downsides will be designed away. I believe EVs today are like ICE vehicles around 1900. In other words, EVs have GREAT improvement potential. I like to think that I am adversarial to the concept (not people) that EVs will have bad downsides forever.
........And I am NOT advocating the immediate 100% takeover of ICE vehicles by EVs. I believe (and have previously stated) that if the US could get up to 30% of new car and truck sales being EVs, that would be enough to start to reverse the Global Warming trend - also if Europe and the rest of the world increased about 5% more of their new car sales. That would also give the US a stronger hand in dealing with Saudi Arabia and other adversaries.
........A fringe benefit would be cleaner air in the US and fewer lung disorders. People would live longer and healthier lives.

Unless we produce electricity with some combination of wind, solar, hydro, thermal, hydrogen(?), nuclear fission, nuclear fusion(?), or something we haven't discovered yet.

There is EVEN another nuisance irritating factor caused by large and small ICE engine devices.......NOISE. Noise is more detrimental to human health than is generally realized. And The Villages is the king of MEGA NOISE. Everywhere I went today, from the pickleball court to the softball field and back home........I was serenaded by the constant WHINE of high VOLUME grass cutting, limb cutting, and trimming ICE small engine NOISE. It was irritating. It would be a nice rule that the landscaping workers in The Villages would be required to use quieter battery-powered landscaping equipment. I don't think that it is too much to ask for a Community this large to be able to think about the concept of NOISE and its harmful effects. Not every old person here is deaf. We have many Doctors here in The Villages that could CONFIRM harmful effects of noise.
........When we are talking about EVs versus ICE engine vehicles and small engines, I think NOISE is a factor to consider.
.....And also the landscaping workers would NOT be exposed to such high NOISE that will cause them to lose hearing capacity in a few years.

OMG Really?!?!?!?!:1rotfl::1rotfl:
Tomorrow around 8:00am look East:welcome:

The way I look at it, an EV would save at least 6 cents per mile (about $700yr) plus $75 every 10,000 miles plus air filters, the random timing belt, and the occasional spark plug.

Saving nearly $1,000/yr is not what I would consider "more expensive to operate."

The statistics don't support characterizing EVs as unsafe.

I don't own one because of my long-range driving habits. When I get tired of driving that far on a regular basis I will probably buy one.

The U.S. Department of Energy's Energy Information Administration reported that American oil production in the first week of October hit 13.2 million barrels per day, passing the previous record set in 2020 by 100,000 barrels. Weekly domestic oil production has doubled from the first week in October 2012 to now.13 Oct 2023

EV
 

I have owner a 2014 plug in hybrid since it was new and have nothing but great things to say about it. Being in TV means I have to purchase gas only a few times in six months since most trips are short. My electric bill is comparable to my neighbors who use their AC more than I do. No complaints after 130,000 miles.

Unless it's cloudy.

There is currently lack of reliability with solar (and wind) including both production and storage. That may improve in time, we'll see.

Hertz bailing out of EV vertuesignalism.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drkPXa5SRwk

Profits be nowhere.

I've got an EV and I'm looking to get rid of it and buy a gas car.

Before I get a gas car, I've got a bunch of questions:
- I hear they run on gasoline, will that explode in my garage?
- How will I fuel up the car when the gas station is closed?
- What comes out of the tailpipe, won't that kill things?
- The engine is in front, will fumes leak out the vents into the car?
- When I put fuel in the car, can I catch a virus from the pump handle? Do the gas stations clean the pumps?
- What's the range?
- What's it like going to an unfamiliar gas station along a highway? Are they safe?
- What's a "tune-up?"
- What's "periodic maintenance?"
- There's a huge heavy motor in the front, if I get into an accident won't that get shoved into the car?
- I hear the engines and all that stuff get really hot! Can I drive over grass without setting it on fire?
- With all that extra weight up high, won't the car roll over easier than an EV?

Hee hee, just kidding, I don't want a gas car.

Using the AC on an electric car drops the driving range quite a bit. Because of that manufacturers have had to find ways to make the AC system more efficient. GM has done this by using a smaller compressor and a highly toxic gas as a refrigerant. Anyone working on the system has to have special equipment and wear ppe. The gas is so toxic that they have to use a totally separate system in the vehicle for it.

It would be interesting to read an article about that. Can you provide a link to one?

From what I can see GM use HFO-1234yf refrigerant, which is in general use for most modern EVs and ICE vehicles.

The US was exporting 2 million barrels/day in 2012. In 2023, the exports are now over 120 million barrels/day. It would appear that much of this extra domestic production is being exported to other countries.

U.S. Exports of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels)

Not sure about the toxic part but it’s true, ac cuts your range. Heat probably does too.

I have found posters on TOTV make stuff up. Since GM is converting to this new refrigerant would anyone feel safe in a petroleum operated vehicle with GM’s track record.

Actually, so does driving with the windows open (increased resistance, reduced aerodynamics). You can't win.

I'm not surprised at all that no link has been provided. I can't find anything about a new refrigerant either.

GM *did* make a change back in 2012 that was controversial at the time. According to articles that google found, GM switched to the R1234YF refrigerant that other manufacturers found to be too dangerous. Perhaps this is the highly toxic refrigerant the poster was referring to. It is currently available from Walmart and Amazon.

Yipsters! Lots of info, good and bad.

Sort if kills the argument that governments are stopping oil production.
Oil companies are reaping record profits.