I believe that vaccinations are good, but I also believe they should always be voluntary. Quit shaming those that are afraid and won't get theirs. I believe that seat belts serve a purpose and are good, but believe they should be voluntary and not mandatory. I believe that motorcycle helmets are good but also believe they should be voluntary. Some states mandate them. The Constitution states that one MUST be a U.S. citizen to vote, so I believe that the only way to prove a voter's eligibility is to mandate a voter ID.
Everyone has their opinions on what is a Freedom issue versus what should be mandated.
I got my Covid shots, but I do not get a flu shot. My preference and no one shames me for it. My doctor offers it to me but respects my right to decline it. The flu is often life threatening to folks, yet I have NEVER seen anyone wearing masks during flu season. Okay, tell me that it is not as dangerous. "Tell that to the ones that died from it" I hear from those discussing covid.
Get over it. If you have your vaccinations, do what you wish. By now you know that attempting to shame some of us for returning to normality, is not working. Consider this; isn't it possible that someone is taking advantage of your easily manipulated mind? Maybe I am wrong, but it won't matter much to me because I am enjoying my life while others are wallowing in self inflicted misery. Not because I enjoy seeing others suffer, but but it is their choice and I respect their choice even if I don't agree with it.
Get over it. If you refuse to get vaccinated, it's your choice. Have fun wearing protective gear and worrying about folks getting too close to you. If you get your shots and then still fear for your life, why? You do not trust the vaccinations? Then why did you get them? Do you get the flu shot every year and then wear a mask to keep from catching the flu? How effective is the flu shot? Perhaps 30 - 40%, maybe 60% on a good year? The covid shot is almost 100% guaranteed to prevent death from covid. Can it get any better than that?
Let me put a twist on an over used term. It is your "patriotic duty" as an American to be an individual and make a free choice on what you do. It is NOT "patriotic" regardless of what someone in D.C. says to live as a collective and make choices based on what a group demands. Your "morale" is not dependent upon someone else's definition of "moral duty." "Charity" is voluntary given with "love", NOT mandatory.
I'll be out and about today, WITH friends from out of town. You will be able to ID us by the absence of masks on any of us. If that offends or frightens you, run for your home or just stay your distance. We probably won't notice you fleeing. You see, we have confidence that the vaccine they pushed on us actually works. I realize that we should not trust the advertising, but maybe we just wish for this to be over so we are easily convinced. Get your vaccinations and feel a little of this freedom too.

Why do you bother with "meds and insulin?" :):duck::throwtomatoes:

We have several factors going on....."experts" all have opinions and many differ. When they are working on something new like C-19, they are forced to learn as they go.....and that will provide changing opinions. The public generally reads or hears and believes what they want to see or hear. The C-19 virus is not an exact science yet (hopefully we will learn enough to get it more exact), and thus difference of opinions, what seems to be misleading information, and unfortunately, social media generally throws in "misinformation". We will know the facts and more accurate causes and out comes some time in the future when C-19 is contained or wiped out and science will have enough accurate information to analyze.

Masks
 

Don't throw your mask away next winter - flu, coughs and colds at record lows this year everywhere because of masks. I'll be wearing one from Nov to April in future.

Not mixed messages
 

It is a novel = NEW coronavirus so the advice has changed as the scientists and medical people have learned more about it. Do you really want the same advice as March 2020?

It's all about CONTROLLING THE PEOPLE. That's it. It's what the Dems want so they can change this country to communism.

Oh boy, here we go again... :ohdear: In your own words: "Only 1 in 13,000 people who were fully vaccinated got COVID, and probably fewer than that could "pass it on"", followed by "stop posting that you can still get and pass on COVID if you are vaccinated"! Just a tad contradictory, don't ya' think??? And I've still seen no recognized authorities claim that the possibility of transmission is a rumor/myth. If you have, please post a link.

I personally don't claim to be a member of any such organization :icon_wink: but I do know how to use a search engine as well as read past the first line of whatever hit gives me a warm feeling. (Not to mention posting links to pertinent information that I quote.) More context from the CDC on this issue of breakthrough cases:
"There will be a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated who still get sick, are hospitalized, or die from COVID-19."
"Asymptomatic infections among vaccinated people also will occur."
and "It is important to note that reported vaccine breakthrough cases will represent an undercount. This surveillance system is passive and relies on voluntary reporting from state health departments which may not be complete. Also, not all real-world breakthrough cases will be identified because of lack of testing. This is particularly true in instances of asymptomatic or mild illness.". These cherries from COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC

From another CDC page:
"If you get COVID-19 after vaccination, your symptoms might be less severe

Even though a small percentage of fully vaccinated people will get sick, vaccination will protect most people from getting sick. There also is some evidence that vaccination may make illness less severe in people who get vaccinated but still get sick. Despite this, some fully vaccinated people will still be hospitalized and die." What You Should Know About the Possibility of COVID-19 Illness After Vaccination | CDC
So far as I know, the CDC hasn't said outright that those fully vaccinated and subsequently hospitalized cannot spread the virus.

Interesting. Flu is being reported at a lower than average rate. Coughs and colds are not reportable so there is no way anyone knows if there are more or less than average.

Flu may be lower due to masks, or maybe because anything that can be reported as Covid is, or it may just be a lower than average flu season. There is no way to know.

But since it is likely that influenza viruses behave similar to coronaviruses as far as masks go, then the person wearing one is doing more to protect others than himself. So good luck wearing a mask from November through April, enjoy yourself.

Yep, here we go again. Yes, 0.008% is not zero. But it is so close to zero as to be irrelevant. (and don't give me any crap that it's relevant if YOU get it). Did you see where NASA estimated the chances of getting hit by a meteorite at about 4 times higher than a vaccinated person getting COVID????? Do you walk around looking at the sky???? Or live your life in a bomb shelter???? If not, why are you concerned that a vaccinated person will pass COVID to you. Plus, if you are vaccinated, the chances are now 0.008% x 0.008%, or is that not zero either?

Meds I take control blood pressure. Insulin is for diabetes most likely contracted from drinking water contaminated with Agent Orange.

Neither condition has been politicized as the Covid-19 has. My diabetes doesn't put people out of work and doesn't pay people to stay home on phony unemployment.

Apples and oranges discussion.

The science of illnesses is always changing, for example prior to Flemming and the discovery of penicillin people died of small infections. Covid 19 is new and a mutating virus. Herd immunity is maybe 80% and in this country we are not there. It has taken decades to cure some kinds of cancer and even when the odds are high for cure, the cancer can mutate. It is an every changing process and you must listen to what CDC has to say now that the scientists are actually in control. In The Villages, we have a high number of people vaccinated but the constant turnover of unvaccinated visitors and workers make it a bit more risky. One of the docs this am said if you are fully vaccinated your chance of getting the virus is .0005%. That is very small and should make it acceptable not to wear a mask outside. Inside that is another manner if you do not know if everyone has been vaccinated. Follow the science and understand one simple thing to make your life more tolerable. The only certain thing in life is change, go with it.

BRAINWASHING check.

As a lifelong conservative member of the GOP, that kind of talk was banished years ago by the GOP, as too radical for a serious party.

I'll be out and about today also...without a mask.....and no vaccination........and you won't be able to ID me as such......if that frightens anyone........well.............

My opinion is that many Village People are like little children in a car on a LONG trip - "Are we there yet?" - "When is this damn CV thing over with" - "I am impatient" - "I will stomp my feet and whine"! Also, they like to think of everything as black or white - neglecting the fact that most things in life are shades of grey. This CV crisis has brought out both of these failings - impatience and rash or superficial judgment.

I was seeing the subject of that USA article coming from a mile away (or 7 months ago). Just by reading the daily TOTV threads and posts, one could see that there was going to be a large amount or % of the local area residents that were NOT, likely NOT, going to take the vaccine. I stated that we could likely end up in a disaster where CV could have been defeated, but was NOT. It is looking more and more like the NOTs (the know nots) will carry the day and control US society. Ignorance is prevailing over Science. Dr. Atlas is beating Dr. Fauci in this tag team match to the death of potentially ONE million US citizens!

Other English-speaking 1st world countries like Australia and New Zealand (and also Japan) had THEIR CV under control even before the vaccines were developed. They could do it with masks, distance inside, and co-operation and teamwork. The US can't finish the job on CV even with vaccines. What has become wrong with our country?????!!!!!!!

I answered that question in Post # 87 of yesterday's CV discussion. Please refer back one day.

And we make more than Japan or Switzerland.

That tells me.....a rationalization for not staying informed and deciding what is the RIGHT thing to do for the individual and for society.

True!

I had the virus in November 2019-I have been vaccinated. In my opinion a mask protects ME not someone else. I feel I am capable of making my own decision as to whether to wear a mask or to go to a particular place-really fed up with businesses requiring masks and trying to avoid them when I can, unfortunately it’s impossible to avoid shopping altogether.

I was being facetious. Joking about the list of stuff NOT taken but then the meds anyway. Sorry, I guess it did not go over very well.

I was sprayed three times with AO, but I am not diabetic...YET. Pretty healthy. My friends died from AO related cancer......supposedly....can't prove it, I guess. I don't get the flu shot and never had the flu and can't remember when I had a cold last. I do know it only lasted a couple days. Must have been about 10 year or so ago.

I wasn't going to get the vaccine, but since I had my spouse signed up, I went along with it. Glad I did because now I can forget to wear my mask and not feel guilty.

Best post ever - Mr. Eagles! That was soaring!

The Eagle has landed again - catching disoriented, disinformation in its claws!

Not control, just empathetic people trying to fight a problem. And restore US quality of life!

Those countries completely closed their borders and basically stopped their citizens from entering or leaving the country. On the other hand, we let anyone into our country, citizens or not...

It doesn't look like that will end anytime soon either

True. And that shows that masks are effective. But, masks were not used in the past for colds and flu because the risk of hospitalization or DEATH was NOT as great as from CV. The future might hold a lot of mask-wearing.

We WILL achieve herd immunity one way or another. Either through vaccinations or those who refuse to get vaccinated getting Covid.

Totally agree with you.
To some folks, the grass will ALWAYS be better in another country. Maybe they should volunteer to take in a few covid infested illegal alien children to get a better perspective of just how great of a country we live in.

I really don't care how we do it as long as they do it behind the scenes and let the rest of us resume our NORMAL lives. They have had their fun and games with us, so its time for them to back off and let the lemmings run off the cliff while the rest of us just get back to our regular lifestyles.
Just remember that not everyone catches the flu that refuses the flu shot. I've refused it for 50 years and never had the flu. If I catch the flu in my twilight years, I guess it is my own fault. But, I accept the responsibility for it and do not blame others.

Not trying to be argumentive. But, Australia reported that their flu season was MUCH less. They stated that it was due to mask-wearing due to CV. Australia's Flu season was in our summer, so they were in a good position to have early research.

THIS is NOT the "flu". This is not the seasonal flu that makes people sick and is a little different every year. THIS is a killer of people who are OLDER. KILLER. ONE OUT OF TEN DIE....if they get it. If they are MY AGE.

True! And those countries did the RIGHT thing and protected their citizens. We, the US of A did the WRONG thing right from the get-go and HURT its citizens! I am just trying to point out areas of potential improvement that the US could have made during this Pandemic - because it is likely that other Pandemics will follow in the future. The globe is becoming smaller and more interdependent.

No argument at all--it's certainly possible. But it's also possible it was due to other factors. No way to know for sure.

It may happen that way, but that USA article suggested that the CV problem could continue for years - with the spread jumping from one area of the US to another. In rural Idaho, they have ONLY a 25% vaccination rate. There are many variables. Herd immunity is NOT guaranteed!

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

Possibly a sophisticated mathematical regression analysis could isolate the MOST likely variable?

Wear a mask for another year or two after being fully vaccinated, and with most of the US population having the ability to be vaccinated by the summer? Is this a serious post?

Maybe, but probably the best you could get is a 70-80% probability, meanwhile, there are posters on this thread who think 0.008% isn't good enough. :1rotfl:

Well, first off 1 in 13,000 definitely is a small percentage, but not irrelevant. Second, the quote from the CDC said, "It is important to note that reported vaccine breakthrough cases will represent an undercount." so that's not exactly a number you can bank on at the moment.
Then the NASA thing - I was going to pass on that post, but since you brought it up... That's a ludicrous number: it implies that 1 in 3000 people will be hit (or have been hit! :shocked:) by a meteorite during their lifetime??? :1rotfl::1rotfl: That's really funny since, as of 2016, there's only ONE person confirmed to have been struck by a meteorite in history, according to National Geographic. (Warning: you may have to create an account to view the article.) The True Story of History'''s Only Known Meteorite Victim
And that's not crap either. :rolleyes: Unlike the "0.008% x 0.008%" idea, which is not really founded in math, science or facts, just throwing around some numbers.

In all fairness, I didn't believe that 1 in 3000 number either (But since it was on the internet it must be true:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:). But you really shouldn't hide under your bed for the 1 in13,000 that might spread COVID