Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1986838)

The party was outdoors? Everyone was 100% vaccinated? So........what is the problem???
Good for them for doing the celebration as safely as possible.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1986849)

I watched a video of this doctor who claims the virus is small enough to go through every mask. I stopped right there. He has no credibility at all by making that claim. Doesn't he know that theses minuscule virus particles DO NOT TRAVEL BY THEMSELVES. The virus particles are encompassed in droplets and the much smaller aerosols which will be MOSTLY blocked by those disposable and cloths masks that folks wear as SOURCE CONTROL. This guy is a boob.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1986858)

But what about all those folks who have escaped the dreaded virus so far and have not been vaccinated? They remain prime hosts of this virus to mutate and create more variants. THOSE are the people who should be getting themselves vaccinated. We need to act quickly on this. Why wait?

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1986849)

I watched a video of this doctor who claims the virus is small enough to go through every mask. I stopped right there. He has no credibility at all by making that claim. Doesn't he know that theses minuscule virus particles DO NOT TRAVEL BY THEMSELVES. The virus particles are encompassed in droplets and the much smaller aerosols which will be MOSTLY blocked by those disposable and cloths masks that folks wear as SOURCE CONTROL. This guy is a boob.

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW (Post 1986357)

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.

Originally Posted by Dana Swain (Post 1986880)

Love your point of view…l had Covid with mild symptoms and still have natural antibodies. I don’t want a vaccine that I don’t trust! I hate being ostracized because I won’t get vaccinated…

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW (Post 1986357)

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.

Originally Posted by Robin Farris (Post 1986962)

As a COVID survivor I really want to say thank you! I clean houses for a living and I do a dang good job at it. As of lately some of my clients have started trying to push the shot on me and trying to make ME feel bad. I have always been booked but lately I have started letting people go. I have survived it and my antibodies in my own body knows what to do to protect it now period. I feel to each their own but don’t try to make me feel bad. I contracted it just before Christmas and trust me I am not in the best shape. A smoker of 30+ years, bad lungs…but I SURVIVED it. And I have had no problems since. I know that was not the case with all and for that I am sorry. I feel lucky to still be here today. But this shaming in either direction needs to stop. If something was to happen and maybe someone couldn’t get or tolerate the vaccine and became sick the next best thing might be one of us survivors donating our antibodies. Just let that sink in for a moment because guess what I don’t know you and you don’t know me but if asked I wouldn’t hesitate to help you however I could.

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW (Post 1986964)

Ask your Doctor to give you an antibody test, when it shows you have antibodies have Doctor write you a letter saying you are just as protected as the vaccinated. If he won't do this, get a smarter Doctor.

Originally Posted by gdennis317 (Post 1986942)

Israel study mentioned was a small sample group. Recent studies here in the US say Opposite is true. Kentucky case study as an example.

Key point in all of this is that those in the Hospital here in the US are predominantly the Unvaccinated, and those who die are overwhelmingly the unvaccinated.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1986966)

And be sure to mention you received this advice from someone onToTV, that should carry some weight.

Originally Posted by OETTING (Post 1986937)

Although antibodies from natural infection may provide some protection against the virus, evidence shows nothing protects against COVID-19 better than vaccines.
People who have recovered from COVID-19 should get vaccinated to reduce their risk of reinfection, which will prevent transmission and suppress the opportunity for more variants – like the highly contagious delta – to emerge.
“Natural infection will cause your immune system to make many types of antibodies and immune response to all parts of the virus, but only a small fraction of that response is actually protective,” said Nicole Iovine, chief hospital epidemiologist at University of Florida Health in Gainesville. “When you get the vaccine, the entire response is targeted to the virus's spike protein.”

Originally Posted by NoMoSno (Post 1986909)

The party was in an enclosed tent. No one wore masks.
CDC reccomends that vaccinated wear masks in enclosed areas.

Originally Posted by lkagele (Post 1986916)

I really don't think that's correct. At first the thought was these were droplets that traveled no more than 6'. Thus the social distancing recommendations.

Later, however, studies showed aerosol particles stayed in the air for much longer periods of time and distance and were also responsible for transmission of the disease.

There's also evidence the droplets and aerosols can enter the body through eye cavities. I just don't see masks as being effective enough to warrant anything other than attempts to control the populace.

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW (Post 1986924)

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. 85% of covid virus emissions from an infected individual are tiny aerosols, only 15% are encased in globules.. They are 5000 times smaller than the holes in a cloth mask. You can easily breath these all the way down to your lungs where they begin to work their magic.

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW (Post 1986924)

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. 85% of covid virus emissions from an infected individual are tiny aerosols, only 15% are encased in globules.. They are 5000 times smaller than the holes in a cloth mask. You can easily breath these all the way down to your lungs where they begin to work their magic.

Originally Posted by flsteve (Post 1986877)

Wait.... I thought that vaccinated people can STILL spread the virus? If so, it makes sense to me that both vaccinated AND un-vaccinated people can "infect those around you with a lethal virus". Right? However, only THE VACCINATED people can be criticized for having the "right" to "infect those around you with a lethal virus", since vaccinated people can still get it again, yet likely not in a lethal manner. Only un-vaccinated people can "infect those around you with a lethal virus."

Therefore, the Typhoid Mary comparison point is completely moot.

Critical thinking is a bitch! :)

Originally Posted by OETTING (Post 1986937)

Although antibodies from natural infection may provide some protection against the virus, evidence shows nothing protects against COVID-19 better than vaccines.
People who have recovered from COVID-19 should get vaccinated to reduce their risk of reinfection, which will prevent transmission and suppress the opportunity for more variants – like the highly contagious delta – to emerge.
“Natural infection will cause your immune system to make many types of antibodies and immune response to all parts of the virus, but only a small fraction of that response is actually protective,” said Nicole Iovine, chief hospital epidemiologist at University of Florida Health in Gainesville. “When you get the vaccine, the entire response is targeted to the virus's spike protein.”

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW (Post 1986964)

Ask your Doctor to give you an antibody test, when it shows you have antibodies have Doctor write you a letter saying you are just as protected as the vaccinated. If he won't do this, get a smarter Doctor.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1986986)

I found a video using a high speed camera. After viewing this video, there is no way you can tell me that masks do not contain aerosols. The difference between no mask and the three examples of masking is HUGE!

High speed camera captures how different types of face masks work - YouTube

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW (Post 1986993)

LOL Again with the Youtube videos. You do realize that aerosol virus particles are microscopic and can not be seen with a high speed camera? What you are seeing is water globules and vapor.

For the love of God, please read some actual science and forget about what you might learn on Youtube or Facebook.

To better understand how airborne SARS-CoV-2 transmission occurs, we sought to determine viral loads within coarse (>5μm) and fine (≤5μm) respiratory aerosols produced when breathing, talking, and singing.

Overall, fine aerosols constituted 85% of the viral load detected in our study

This is a study using actual covid infected patients and a very precise instrument called a G-II exhaled breath collector which can collect and measure particles down to 1um in size. 1um is 1 millionth of a meter or 1/25,400th of an inch. You need an electron microscope to see them, not a high speed camera

Viral Load of SARS-CoV-2 in Respiratory Aerosols Emitted by COVID-19 Patients while Breathing, Talking, and Singing - PubMed

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW (Post 1986964)

Ask your Doctor to give you an antibody test, when it shows you have antibodies have Doctor write you a letter saying you are just as protected as the vaccinated. If he won't do this, get a smarter Doctor.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1987005)

Isn't that respiratory aerosols I see when I "see my breath" in a cold climate such as when I lived up north? Aren't those respiratory aerosols that can be seen with the naked eye? Contained in that visible vapor of aerosols can be millions of those Covid virus particles of an infected person. No?

Originally Posted by Robin Farris (Post 1987018)

I have been retesting for antibodies every 3 months so far I still test positive for antibodies. I keep a copy of the lab report with me to show if asked. But some people still think I should get a shot. To be perfectly honest I know 3 different people who got the shot and passed shortly after. And one who spent some time in the ICU due to a bad reaction. Now THAT scares me. I have also read up about the number of deaths after getting the shot and yes on the CDC website. And that scares me so…I’m going to keep my antibodies checked and let my body do what Science intended. Again thank you.

Originally Posted by stanley (Post 1987021)

Don't pee in a porta potty up north in the cold climate either...pee steam kills ya know

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1986988)

Yes, you are correct. Vaccinated people can still spread the virus. BUT......vaccinated people with breakthrough infections are so few in numbers, there is very little chance a vaccinated person will spread the virus to begin with. Then, if a vaccinated person does get infected, the amount of time the vaccinated person is contagious is so much less than someone who is un-vaccinated. Bottom line is vaccinated people pose so little threat of transmitting this virus vs the huge threat of transmission that un-vaccinated people pose to others.

I get it. It makes those folks who have refused the vaccine feel good about themselves to be able to say that vaccinated people can infect others too. I do get it. LOL.

Originally Posted by cof1986849

Iwatched a video of this doctor who claims the virus is small enough to go through every mask. I stopped right there. He has no credibility at all by making that claim. Doesn't he know that theses minuscule virus particles DO NOT TRAVEL BY THEMSELVES. The virus particles are encompassed in droplets and the much smaller aerosols which will be MOSTLY blocked by those disposable and cloths masks that folks wear as SOURCE CONTROL. This guy is a boob.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1986441)

If you want to play the Covid Party game, you should definitely go to Sturgis. You have the best chance of actually contracting it there than anywhere else these days.

Originally Posted by Lindsyburnsy (Post 1987028)

Also the particulates don’t flow smoothly; but rather the turbulent airflow causes particles to get caught in the mask. Also if this dude is correct, then what’s his answer as to why surgeons wear them during surgery?.
hi

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1987025)

Per Google.......

"At dew point, air can no longer hold water vapor; when air is cooled beyond dew point water vapor turns to liquid form, the physical process known as condensation. It is this liquid form of your breath – minuscule droplets of water – that creates the fleeting, misty cloud we see when breathing in cold weather."

So....that is my breath that I see in a cold climate; all those minuscule aerosols. Hmmm. Thought so.

Also.........The warmth of the urine creates this same phenom in cold weather. Very interesting.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1986980)

I just looked at photos of the tent with all the sides open to allow fresh air. That, to me, is not considered an enclosed area, especially with fresh air flowing in.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1986986)

I found a video using a high speed camera. After viewing this video, there is no way you can tell me that masks do not contain aerosols. The difference between no mask and the three examples of masking is HUGE!

High speed camera captures how different types of face masks work - YouTube

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1986982)

The areosol particles stayed in the air when they were introduced by people not wearing masks. THAT is why universal masking is advocated world wide. Masking and social distancing are still a mitigation behind the life saving vaccines we have now.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1987025)

Per Google.......

"At dew point, air can no longer hold water vapor; when air is cooled beyond dew point water vapor turns to liquid form, the physical process known as condensation. It is this liquid form of your breath – minuscule droplets of water – that creates the fleeting, misty cloud we see when breathing in cold weather."

So....that is my breath that I see in a cold climate; all those minuscule aerosols. Hmmm. Thought so.

Also.........The warmth of the urine creates this same phenom in cold weather. Very interesting.

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW (Post 1986971)

Hmmm. I think I will listen to the Cleveland Clinic on this one.

No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests

No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1986982)

The areosol particles stayed in the air when they were introduced by people not wearing masks. THAT is why universal masking is advocated world wide. Masking and social distancing are still a mitigation behind the life saving vaccines we have now.

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1987026)

The number of breakthrough cases are increasing rapidly with the Delta variant. Those with breakthrough cases have the same viral loads as those who are unvaccinated. So previously vaccinated individuals can spread the virus as readily as those who were not vaccinated. The CDC conveniently stopped counting breakthrough cases, but other countries have continued to count. And those case numbers are exponentially higher than the CDC had been reporting months ago.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1987111)

Yes. I am aware the CDC has stopped counting all breakthrough cases and only counting hospitalizations and deaths. I guess we will never really know how many breakthrough cases we will have here in the US. I guess we never would know anyway because many of those breakthrough cases are and would be asymptomatic. Asymptomatic people usually don't even get tested so would not know if they have a breakthrough case.

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 1987120)

So you’re also aware that the viral load in the breakthrough cases is the same as the viral load in those unvaccinated who get Covid?!?
Which means vaccinated or not, if you get Covid, you can spread it as readily…
And if you are asymptomatic you are much less likely to quarantine. This potentially makes you a more dangerous spreader of the virus…