You forgot to mention the pollution from battery manufacturing and disposal after they die. :spoken:

Well, if you don't like or trust or utilize the UK's Daily Mail (a foreign news source for those of you so preferring), then perhaps the Wall Street Journal is more in your wheelhouse?

wsj.com

Line losses are NOT very low! Attention Required! | Cloudflare

Sometimes, when they get the bit between their teeth, it's Fox on steroids!

They sold us on how great plastics were too ! Now micro plastics in every body of water on the planet.

5%, perhaps more depending on what you include. Regardless, it is small compared to ICE engine efficiencies.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

We’ll post some sites then to back up your claim and not from EV manufacturers.

EVs are at same level as electric horseless carriages back in 1900. They just made them more fancy and expensive.

I wonder when 737 going to have EV motors?

Ask and thee shall receive. Eagles are my favorite football team. This is an example of a subject with some HALF TRUTHS sprinkled in and then an ERRONEOUS conclusion is drawn. It is certainly true that small particles are given off when ANY 2 surfaces rub together. If you rub a metal file over a wood surface, you get saw dust. If the metal file was fine enough, you MIGHT (?) get invisible particles. Now the stretch of the truth occurs when they say that invisible tire and brake particles are going to hurt human lungs. And it would be true that the heavier the vehicle the more of these invisible particles would be sent out.
..........Now, one big "curve ball" to what was said in the article is that the 18 wheeler trucks that are traveling EVERY highway would have more tires and brakes and would be more than 10 times heavier than any known Electric car, truck or E-Golf Cart. So if these invisible emitted particles were killing people by injuring their lungs, then ALL the people at TRUCK STOPS, and truck drivers would be LONG dead from lung cancer.

AGAIN, if you read the article, it isn't slanted against EVs and only makes the point that HEAVIER vehicles (ICE or EV) suffer the same issue with tire and break particles!! EV only factors in because on average they are heavier. I don't think ANYONE makes a cancer claim against plastics in the article, so that's a straw argument.

There are some other 1/2 truths in that article in that disreputable publication. Namely.....gravity needs to be considered. Small particles given off by brake linings and tire particles will fall down on some road somewhere and rain will wash them away to sewers and eventually into the MUD bottoms of rivers, where they would soon be rendered inert. Now, another 1/2 truth would be that an E-automobile like a Tesla would weigh some LARGE amount compared with a gas-guzzling vehicle like a Cadillac. Another factor is that in the NEAR future battery weights will be coming down. Another factor is that E-motors move in a circle as opposed to up and down piston movement and THEREFORE require only about 1/3 of the parts as compared to a gas engine. Therefore, less parts need to be shipped to the vehicle factory, which would easily give the E-vehicle an edge in producing less particle pollution (even IF that theory were true, which it isn't)
.........Not for the REAL truth. The gasoline engine helps America's international enemies. The gasoline engine produces out of its exhaust pipe a CO2 gas which RISES (as opposed to those small stupid particles which fall) and the CO2 becomes TRAPPED in the upper atmosphere and has been reflecting HEAT back to the Earth in large quantities in the last 11 or so years. This HEAT has caused many PROBLEMS one of which is HEATED oceans WHICH are spawning more hurricanes of greater intensity.
.......Also note......The worldwide gas and oil conglomerates have a vested PROFIT interest in PREVENTING the widespread ADOPTION of ELECTRIC vehicles. They are DESPERATE to prevent them!!!!!!!!!

OK I will take that as a good comment. With the tiny addition that brake is spelled brake.

Agreed. Monday's Daily Show is excellent. learn things and be entertained. It is a win-win.

Unrelated.....but so sad to see iconic vehicles like the Ford Mustang go the EV route. I mean isn’t the whole enjoyment of a ‘stang’ is starting her up and hearing the 351 Cleveland?!
You turn on a current model and you hear....nothing.

EV mustang looks nothing like the King of street coyote ICE vehicles.

Love the Dropkick Murphys.

Yup! Good taste in music sir. This is their annual ‘super bowl’ coming up (St. Patrick’s Day) multiple shows....unfortunately, all in Boston (unless you’re in Boston of course that weekend)

And don't forget, the first "horseless carriage" was an EV. The EV was invented BEFORE the ICE powered cars...

So, the BETTER technology WAS the ICE vehicle, since it replaced the EV...

I've read where it uses as much emissions to mine the ingredients for the electric car as a vehicle that has 150,000 miles of road use. Not to forget that China is the country that has the resources and gets rich off of our government

Hmmm …. someone with some real facts, real life examples; not tabloid headlines. Well done. The tabloid article included references to an interesting study, however. Using the logic being proposed in the article (heavier vehicles burn tires faster and emit more pollution) many believers should also enthusiastically now argue AGAINST Americans buying heavier tire burning pickups and SUVs, and now argue in favor of buying lighter, smaller, gas powered cars, and certainly they would now need to lobby strenuously against the incredible proliferation of 100,000 pound eighteen wheelers on our major roadways and now also argue for increased rail subsidies to modernize US rail freight lines. More rail transport of freight and less heavy vehicle tire burners and polluters (?). Maybe a whole new generation of environmentalists will spring forth from the tabloid readers. Wow.

Everyone seems to forget the reality of EV market. No one wants them. Anyone who did, already bought one.

Dealerships can't sell them. Manufacturers can't make money with them. If it wasn't for federal subsidies, Tesla would have folded years ago. Hertz is dumping 20,000 EV's. EV's are one of the biggest frauds ever foisted on the public.

... & along comes little ol' Toyota. The envy of every auto manufacturer in the world and tells us what anyone with a brain has known for 15 years.

If you want to replace ICE vehicles, hybrids are the only way to go. Not that Toyota knows much about cars, right?


Toyota says it would rather buy credits than ‘waste’ money on EVs | Electrek (Interview with the CEO of Toyota, for Automotive News, 3/1/24)

I actually agree with this. The mandates to go all EV at some point in the future will be disastrous. Our grids can’t even handle ‘normal’ consumption. Further, there will be graveyards for all these EV corpses lining our landscapes. I think a fair resolve is to own a EV/hybrid and have a gas fueled vehicle as a back up.

Tabloid garbage nonsense made for the old dinosaurs that hate change & everything electric.

I wonder why we don't have more gasoline powered appliances and devices if they're so efficient and clean like gas powered cars and trucks.

I can think of a few:
Gasoline powered cell phone! Just fill 'er up, lasts for a week!
Gas powered flashlight! Never needs charging!

And so clean! Maybe a gasoline powered air filter! Or, hey, better yet, a gasoline powered washing machine! Dump your clothes in, they come out sparkly clean and meadow fresh!

How about a gasoline powered refrigerator! Nothing better than gasoline and a catalytic converter next to your food! Yum!

I have three vehicles and each has it's purpose. F250 to pull things, a 68 Mustang for Sunday drives when it is finished being restored, and a Mache to have some sporty fun. We bought the Mache for fun and transportation, not to save the planet. Nothing man-made will save the planet. Just take care of the planet the way one sees fit. It was great in the day when we could debate things openly and without ridicule. And then, when we were done debating we could still be friends. Ah, for those days!

You are incorrect on China, they have less resources than we do. We are just afraid of the political winds to open mines in our own country.
Top six countries with the largest lithium reserves in the world

Nonsense. EV's have tripled in sales in 3 years. How many other things have tripled in sales in that timeframe?

Source:

U.S. electric vehicle sales soar into ‘24 - International Council on Clean Transportation.

Many EV companies like Tesla don't have dealerships. They have zero.

Telsa made $14.3 billion in profit in 2023.

Oil industry isn't subsidized? Hmmm...EV's are not the only thing subsidized. Stop eating food, it is subsidized. Look around, there are lots of subsidized things around!

Really on the 1,000 mile trip? Have done them in our Mache and loved every minute of it. Time to stop was about as long as it takes to get gas, take a leak, get a drink or snack and be on my way. There are plenty of charge stations. I can drive further than when my SO needs to use the facilities. Others can tell the experience one has by their use of the tools before them.

I am not sad, I love my Mache. It will clean the 351 Cleveland away. I don't need sound to know something is fast(supposedly). The Mache is not taking away the Mustang moniker from the gas. It is being used to supplement the Mustang line up.

History of the electric car.
Access to this page has been denied

You been around awhile, I see, Mr. osu.

The point is/was....I’m not advocating for eradication of the EV....my post was about balance. You actually agreed with my premise of having the ability to choose one over the other or own both. Not be force fed one by mandate. In fairness, nobody goes to a car show and lines up to check the battery under the hood of a Mache. There is nothing iconic about an EV and since you’re restoring a Mustang, you would understand the difference here.

Pollute what exactly? FYI - Carbon Dioxide is the exact opposite of a pollutant.

Watch a good heavy laiden day in The Villages.

They are already developing seeds that are aluminum soil and toxic soil resistent.

Cloned gene being used to develop aluminum tolerant crops, Kochian says at AAAS | Cornell Chronicle.

Thank you for not saying I am completely nuts. One day people will realize we breathe air and whoever owns the air controls the world. Gates will have controling food covered.

Research Dubai and weather control. They get it too. All I can say is look up.

The gene research is to enable plants to grow better in acidic soil, not toxic soil. A very big difference.
Many foods are GM to counter bugs and disease, nothing new there.
How you linked it to contrails in the sky, I haven't a clue.! :shrug:

The Hula Hoop & Kool-Aid were overnight sensations. Yet now, nary a word is heard about either.

I have heard there's a hidden stash of Kool-Aid somewhere and folks can still buy it when they need a boost.

What would the sales be without the massive government subsidies?

According to multiple sources, consumer reports states it costs .50 cents a mile to operate a Prius and fueleconomy.gov states the Prius costs .94 cents a mile operating the first 25 miles and $1.51 per mile after that.
Also the Prius will have to replace the hybrid battery every 8-10 years at a cost up to $6000. Go online and people are wondering if it’s worth the expense at that time to replace the battery. Gas cars, most imports can go hundreds of thousands of miles without a rebuild and diesel cars, over 500,0000 miles.
Most EV/hybrid owners don’t include future expenses in their total cost of ownership nor do they care that every battery is toxic waste and polluting the earth when disposing of these batteries. We can also talk about the earths resources it takes to make a hybrid battery which is also destroying the planet.

I put over 160,000 miles in six years on each of two Prius (12 years total). No battery changes required and I sure as did not pay anything close to $80,000 to operate them! Regular oil changes, just like any gasoline engine, and tires every 60,000 miles. I even saved money on brake pads and disks due to the regenerative braking.

The rest of those claims have been thoroughly disputed/debunked in multiple other threads.