Originally Posted by Caymus (Post 2308167)

What would the sales be without the massive government subsidies?

Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2308194)

Tesla would have been out of business, years ago.

As it is, I'm not sure how they stay in business now, given the vehicles they produce. To say nothing of how ugly they are, the quality, fit & finish on those things, is horrible.

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston (Post 2308199)

No offense intended here....but great point. Why is the Prius and in this case the Tesla so aesthetically unpleasing?

Originally Posted by opinionist (Post 2307817)

I don't care about the political agenda that pushes EVs. I have a Toyota Prius that gets 66 MPG and don't care about the price of gas. Some would say that the Green New Deal is dumb as a box of rocks but that would be an insult to the box of rocks. I am waiting to see how those high speed railroads are going to be built across the ocean.

Originally Posted by Caymus (Post 2308167)

What would the sales be without the massive government subsidies?

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe (Post 2307640)

Well, here's my shocked face :-|. Wait, ya mean there's been an agenda being pushed all these years? Nooooo, I don't believe that.

Sorry, it's not a FoxNews link, you can't just dismiss it because you don't like the source (ostrich syndrome).

Electric cars release MORE toxic emissions than gas-powered vehicles and are worse for the environment, finds shock report | Daily Mail Online

Originally Posted by Slapnut (Post 2308071)

I've read where it uses as much emissions to mine the ingredients for the electric car as a vehicle that has 150,000 miles of road use. Not to forget that China is the country that has the resources and gets rich off of our government

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston (Post 2308199)

No offense intended here....but great point. Why is the Prius and in this case the Tesla so aesthetically unpleasing?

Originally Posted by Donegalkid (Post 2308078)

Hmmm …. someone with some real facts, real life examples; not tabloid headlines. Well done. The tabloid article included references to an interesting study, however. Using the logic being proposed in the article (heavier vehicles burn tires faster and emit more pollution) many believers should also enthusiastically now argue AGAINST Americans buying heavier tire burning pickups and SUVs, and now argue in favor of buying lighter, smaller, gas powered cars, and certainly they would now need to lobby strenuously against the incredible proliferation of 100,000 pound eighteen wheelers on our major roadways and now also argue for increased rail subsidies to modernize US rail freight lines. More rail transport of freight and less heavy vehicle tire burners and polluters (?). Maybe a whole new generation of environmentalists will spring forth from the tabloid readers. Wow.

Originally Posted by bopat (Post 2308123)

I wonder why we don't have more gasoline powered appliances and devices if they're so efficient and clean like gas powered cars and trucks.

I can think of a few:
Gasoline powered cell phone! Just fill 'er up, lasts for a week!
Gas powered flashlight! Never needs charging!

And so clean! Maybe a gasoline powered air filter! Or, hey, better yet, a gasoline powered washing machine! Dump your clothes in, they come out sparkly clean and meadow fresh!

How about a gasoline powered refrigerator! Nothing better than gasoline and a catalytic converter next to your food! Yum!

Originally Posted by Bealman (Post 2308126)

I have three vehicles and each has it's purpose. F250 to pull things, a 68 Mustang for Sunday drives when it is finished being restored, and a Mache to have some sporty fun. We bought the Mache for fun and transportation, not to save the planet. Nothing man-made will save the planet. Just take care of the planet the way one sees fit. It was great in the day when we could debate things openly and without ridicule. And then, when we were done debating we could still be friends. Ah, for those days!

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2308287)

Very correct about the good old days (1975 and earlier) when people of different views could debate and then be friends because we were all Americans.........and here comes the BIG point.........MOST all Americans THEN were the SAME financially. Most of us (The US) were middle class then (before 1975). What happened after that????? Partial answer - outsourcing and changing of the tax code to benefit the WEALTHY.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2308287)

Very correct about the good old days (1975 and earlier) when people of different views could debate and then be friends because we were all Americans.........and here comes the BIG point.........MOST all Americans THEN were the SAME financially. Most of us (The US) were middle class then (before 1975). What happened after that????? Partial answer - outsourcing and changing of the tax code to benefit the WEALTHY.

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe (Post 2307640)

Well, here's my shocked face :-|. Wait, ya mean there's been an agenda being pushed all these years? Nooooo, I don't believe that.

Sorry, it's not a FoxNews link, you can't just dismiss it because you don't like the source (ostrich syndrome).

Electric cars release MORE toxic emissions than gas-powered vehicles and are worse for the environment, finds shock report | Daily Mail Online

Originally Posted by bopat (Post 2308123)

I wonder why we don't have more gasoline powered appliances and devices if they're so efficient and clean like gas powered cars and trucks.

I can think of a few:
Gasoline powered cell phone! Just fill 'er up, lasts for a week!
Gas powered flashlight! Never needs charging!

And so clean! Maybe a gasoline powered air filter! Or, hey, better yet, a gasoline powered washing machine! Dump your clothes in, they come out sparkly clean and meadow fresh!

How about a gasoline powered refrigerator! Nothing better than gasoline and a catalytic converter next to your food! Yum!

Originally Posted by MorTech (Post 2308139)

Pollute what exactly? FYI - Carbon Dioxide is the exact opposite of a pollutant.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2308303)

Carbon dioxide CO2 was fine throughout most of human history. But, it has become excessive - more than can be absorbed by trees and plants. We can see trees bulldozed up here locally. The Brazilian rain forest of the Amazon has been cut down for farming. Most of this UNBALANCE has expressed itself in the last 15 years because not CO2 BUT EXCESS CO2 has gotten into the ocean and is killing the Coral REEFS. And the excess CO2 has settled around the upper atmosphere and REFLECTED HEAT back to the Earth. This keeps causing greater and greater hurricanes each year. This can be PROVEN right NOW by anybody willing to read that the Golf of Mexico is already (before summer even) at record temperatures. AND also, is the whole WORLD heating up.
.........South America's heating up is causing ALL the movement of people from Venezuela and other South American countries northward to the US. This will not stop because the planet's population is spiking upward right NOW. That means more EXCESS CO2 coming out of gasoline engine exhaust.

Originally Posted by Caymus (Post 2308309)

.... and for EV minerals

Growth of electric vehicles endangering rain forests

Originally Posted by LittleZee (Post 2308315)

Perhaps we should make an attempt to broaden the spectrum of our understanding of the complex yet positive impact that EV replacement is having on our environments and move of the puerile commentary such as "My MACHE gives me all the vroom, vroom I want without the gurgling muffler sound" or "My Prius drives on a full tank to New York and back".
The nuance and sophistication of appropriate environment modelling goes well beyond some of the shallow opinions shared here on TV pages.

Just a moment...

Originally Posted by MandoMan (Post 2307752)

.. the Daily Mail.... This is the paper that launched the garbage about The Villages being a hotbed of STDs with beds full of swingers.

Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 2308319)

2022 data little outdated?

As we speak EV sales are projected down EVERYWHERE.

J.D. Power lowers 2024 electric vehicle sales forecast.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2308327)

OK it may be scientifically INCORRECT to say that CO2 REFLECTS heat back. I use that as a shorthand for what is taking place. I have seen diagrams in science articles that show red arrows of HEAT going upward somewhere in the stratosphere and some of those arrows make it through the CO2 layer and go into space. That was all there was to the story 40 years ago. HEAT escaping into space, no problem. But with increased population and production of CO2 from the tailpipe of internal combustion engines, the upper layer started REFLECTING (or bending) HEAT radiation back to the earth. And as I stated there are PROOFS of this excess CO2........namely the Coral Reefs dying. Right now there are people making TRIPS to Coral Reefs because they know that in 20 or so years, they will all be dead. Another PROOF is that the Earth has been heating up for the last 11 or so years and causing greater hurricanes. Another PROOF is that right now the Gulf is at RECORD temperatures. Excess CO2 is NOT just in the upper atmosphere. It is in the oceans. The planet is warming.....another PROOF is that the glaciers like in France that is melting so fast that all skiing there is going away. Glaciers all over the planet are melting, which is more PROOF.
..........Now as far as Why people from South America and the whole globe are trying to enter the US southern border, I am sure that there are many motivations. At least one of the motivations that I have read about are farmers leaving because it has become too WARM to farm the crops that they are used to and it MUST BE too difficult to change. I REALLY don't care WHY they are coming, just that they ARE coming.
.........Most of my warnings have to do with IC engine vehicles that are causing Global Warming. And ANY quick research shows that Global warming is happening rapidly in the last 11 years. Just ask, "Why are the world's oceans rising?"