Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   Current Events and News (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/current-events-news-541/)
-   -   Florida sets new single-day record. (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/current-events-news-541/florida-sets-new-single-day-record-307907/)

jimjamuser 06-19-2020 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by allus70 (Post 1787476)
NY now has one of the lowest infection rates in the country.
Florida has one of the highest.
New York Governor Andrew Cuomo considers 14-day quarantine for Florida visitors | wgrz.com
Irony reigns supreme in the camp of the Plague. We ARE # 1.

OrangeBlossomBaby 06-19-2020 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodLife (Post 1787628)

I didn't just pull my theory out of thin air. I saw the headlines "Florida cases spiking" and wanted to find out where in Florida this was happening. I found that 70 percent of the new cases were coming from 7 counties. I saw that the big spikes started on June 12 and were in the same locations as the biggest protests. I also saw zero spikes in Counties like Sumter, which had no large protests. The Villages reopened May 4, why no spike in cases here or many other Florida counties?
Yeah you did. You disobeyed "correlation does not equal causation," the primary tenet of good research.

Using your logic:

The top 3 spikes in Florida have occurred in shoreline counties. Therefore, it's the people going to the beach causing the spikes.


Do you see how that just really doesn't seem to make sense? That it feels flat, that this one thing can't possibly be the primary reason, there has to be more to it?

More than you might know, since you aren't a scientist, you're not doing any actual research, you're just doing some google headline searches and coming to conclusions based on someone else's version of a summary they found from a third or fourth party who might have worked with dozens of other people on the actual research.

billethkid 06-19-2020 09:36 AM
Coming soon .....mandatory masks in FL mandated by Desantis.

jimjamuser 06-19-2020 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieo1126@gmail.com (Post 1787559)
Oh yes let’s just blame the protesters, God is punishing them just like he did aids patients in the 80’s , let’s not take into consideration that they have started to test more or the fact that our governor shut down to late and opened to early , yes the protest will cause some more cases , but also the fact is people who live in denser areas are going to have more cases . Before you point fingers , just look around villages and see that people aren’t doing what they should , I’ve been to a few restaurants but the outside bars are a mess,and do yourself a favor at least put your mask on if you go into a restaurant or public bathroom, it’s a close space and people from everywhere are going to be tight on top of you
Best post of the morning. Very intelligent, detailed, and informative. You go, Charleyo!

jimjamuser 06-19-2020 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana1963 (Post 1787561)
Wearing a mask is NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT!
Wearing of masks, is a statement of SCIENCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chi-Town 06-19-2020 09:54 AM
Orange County and Orlando will have a mandatory public mask executive order tomorrow, but it wil be voluntary.

jimjamuser 06-19-2020 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-Town (Post 1787657)
Orange County and Orlando will have a mandatory public mask executive order tomorrow, but it wil be voluntary.
Mandatory means non-voluntary. Means "you DO it Clide" . Needs teeth so Clide, can't slide.

GoodLife 06-19-2020 10:02 AM
Originally posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Yeah you did. You disobeyed "correlation does not equal causation," the primary tenet of good research.

Nope, after I saw the correlation of large protests = large spikes I looked for the opposite. No protests = no spikes. Then I looked at science, average time from exposure to symptoms is 5-6 days. How virus is transmitted person to person. Looked at dates spikes started, looked at dates protests happened. Looked at dates Florida reopened, looked at new cases rates after that. Then I read what epidemiologist were saying about the dangers of large tightly packed groups in protests chanting and yelling loudly expels more virus. Looked at photos of large protests, saw how tightly packed they were.

The top 3 spikes in Florida have occurred in shoreline counties. Therefore, it's the people going to the beach causing the spikes.

Over 50% of Florida counties are on the shoreline. Only a few of them had spikes. Orange county is inland, it had a large spike. These facts blow that theory out of the water.

More than you might know, since you aren't a scientist, you're not doing any actual research, you're just doing some google headline searches and coming to conclusions based on someone else's version of a summary they found from a third or fourth party who might have worked with dozens of other people on the actual research.

Are you sure about this? :coolsmiley:

Rosie1950 06-19-2020 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodLife (Post 1787628)
Not just me, lots of epidemiologists are saying this. When you have people marching shoulder to shoulder, chanting and screaming, this is a recipe for contagion. In a packed protest march, you can have 9 people in a 6 foot by 6 foot square. Screaming and chanting loudly expels more virus from infected individuals.

The reopening rules in Florida are very specific, spacing of tables in restaurants, limited occupancy etc. Large groups, I think more than 10 are still prohibited. Maintain 6 foot social distancing etc etc. Somehow the large protests are exempt from all the rules.

I didn't just pull my theory out of thin air. I saw the headlines "Florida cases spiking" and wanted to find out where in Florida this was happening. I found that 70 percent of the new cases were coming from 7 counties. I saw that the big spikes started on June 12 and were in the same locations as the biggest protests. I also saw zero spikes in Counties like Sumter, which had no large protests. The Villages reopened May 4, why no spike in cases here or many other Florida counties?

Some new cases will happen, like the restaurant in Jacksonville that wasn't following guidelines. 16 people were infected, most likely from the 7 waiters and bartenders that were found to be positive and weren't wearing masks. Maybe the bartenders and waiters went to the protests in Jacksonville a week before.

It doesn't really matter if you think my logic doesn't compute. Perhaps you will take the time to research the data and come up with a better theory.
Who’s going to DECIDE 5-10 days from tomorrow in Tulsa? With 20,000 in an INDOOR facility shouting and screaming? So I guess YOU would suggest it would be the protesters OUTSIDE!
Our Governor suggests that the spike is coming from immigrant seasonal workers, prisons and long term care facilities. Can you explain his reasoning?

gadaboutgal 06-19-2020 12:16 PM
"Also, attempting to promote the idea that reopening is dangerous is one way of keeping the economy in a depressed state."

Unfortunately, you did not answer my question: If you believe that the Protesters were the cause of the higher Covid count because of their being in close proximity and shouting, then do you not see that reopening in most situations is also dangerous?

And why do you consider the goal to restrict reopenings is also a "way of keeping the economy in a depressed state" Isn't the goal to limit exposure in any way we can? Herd immunity is an impossible goal in the U.S. just as it was in Sweden where they tried but have not reached.Achieving herd immunity is going ‘surprisingly slow’ for Sweden | Fortune

Me thinks you just want to argue politics and are concerned you will be banned if you actually come out with it.

JoMar 06-19-2020 12:24 PM
Non of this really matters does it? We aren't going back to shut down, there are no consequenses for businesses not wearing masks or enforcing social distancing much less individuals, the key indicator is how much hospital capacity is available not cases, not deaths. We can only make our own rules and follow them.

nututv 06-19-2020 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-Town (Post 1787657)
a mandatory public mask executive order tomorrow, but it will be voluntary.
That just makes no sense at all.

sloanst 06-19-2020 12:41 PM
During the Black Plague, a lot of people died, some got sick and survived and some didn't get sick at all. Modern science has proven that was completely due to genetics, specifically the delta 32 gene. If you had a single copy of the delta 32 gene you would get sick but likely survive. With a double copy of this gene, you wouldn't get sick at all. What does that have to do with today. Those individuals that have a double copy of the delta 32 gene are immune to the AIDS virus. I would bet they are also immune to Covid 19.

NJblue 06-19-2020 01:05 PM
Universal Health Care was a "big" help in Italy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1787601)
Causation implies a SLOW START to becoming #!. Go Italy! Girl, at least YOU have Universal Health Care.
I really think you should be careful extolling Universal Health Care in Italy as a positive thing. Italy, with its Universal Health Care, had to choose which people that they would let die for lack of respirators and had people stacked up in hospitals like cord wood. Meanwhile, NYC had a much higher case load per capita than did Italy yet they never lacked for respirators or hospital space. If any one thing argues against Universal Health Care it is how poor it has proven to be in emergency situations like a pandemic.

Chi-Town 06-19-2020 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nututv (Post 1787752)
That just makes no sense at all.
Hard to argue.


Masks become mandatory in Orange County, as Florida hits record-high 3,207 new coronavirus cases | Blogs

Viperguy 06-19-2020 02:31 PM
Bottom line folks......It aint over so you might want to reconsider hanging out at the local bar with you friends. Saw some partying at a bar in Brownwood like the old days. Pretty stupid if you ask me. Putting the rest of us at risk.

donassaid 06-19-2020 03:02 PM
So what? 98.5% of those who contract the virus recover without complications. Wearing face masks can be harmful to your immune system and can cause pleurisy from breathing your own CO2.

nututv 06-19-2020 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJblue (Post 1787771)
I really think you should be careful extolling Universal Health Care in Italy as a positive thing. Italy, with its Universal Health Care, had to choose which people that they would let die for lack of respirators and had people stacked up in hospitals like cord wood. Meanwhile, NYC had a much higher case load per capita than did Italy yet they never lacked for respirators or hospital space. If any one thing argues against Universal Health Care it is how poor it has proven to be in emergency situations like a pandemic.
Want to see how great Govt run health care is in the US? Easy, visit a VA hospital. Father was Air Force 28 years, I was 6. We'd drive past a VA hosp for a real one.

newgirl 06-19-2020 03:07 PM
Sad

nututv 06-19-2020 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donassaid (Post 1787818)
So what? 98.5% of those who contract the virus recover without complications. Wearing face masks can be harmful to your immune system and can cause pleurisy from breathing your own CO2.
I don't believe in them and have yet to wear one. That said, there is no data to back that one up as far as I can tell. Discomfort, absolutely. For me anyway.

mtdjed 06-19-2020 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdNoMore (Post 1787099)
Let me repeat, without any actual proof...Correlation Does Not Imply Causation. :ohdear:

And it doesn't take much effort, to ask those who are diagnosed if they, or anyone they have been in contact with... had attended any rallies/large gatherings?

BUT, we aren't even bothering...to do that. :oops:
And you will obviously support this "No correlation" observation for any rally bringing large groups together.

coffeebean 06-19-2020 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1787638)
Coming soon .....mandatory masks in FL mandated by Desantis.
I'm a proponent of mask wearing in public spaces indoors where no social distancing is guaranteed. But.......wondering how this will be enforced?

ColdNoMore 06-19-2020 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1787652)
Wearing of masks, is a statement of SCIENCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And REASON!!!!!!


Which is antipathetic to... :ohdear:

coffeebean 06-19-2020 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-Town (Post 1787657)
Orange County and Orlando will have a mandatory public mask executive order tomorrow, but it wil be voluntary.
That is an oxymoron.

ColdNoMore 06-19-2020 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtdjed (Post 1787834)
And you will obviously support this "No correlation" observation for any rally bringing large groups together.
I think any large groups...are taking a chance.

I believe large groups outside wearing masks, versus the same packed inside, for any reason (sports/rallies/concerts/Etc.) without masks...is simply being idiotic.

We shall see though...eh? ;)

chet2020 06-19-2020 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodLife (Post 1787628)
Not just me, lots of epidemiologists are saying this. When you have people marching shoulder to shoulder, chanting and screaming, this is a recipe for contagion. In a packed protest march, you can have 9 people in a 6 foot by 6 foot square. Screaming and chanting loudly expels more virus from infected individuals.

The reopening rules in Florida are very specific, spacing of tables in restaurants, limited occupancy etc. Large groups, I think more than 10 are still prohibited. Maintain 6 foot social distancing etc etc. Somehow the large protests are exempt from all the rules.

I didn't just pull my theory out of thin air. I saw the headlines "Florida cases spiking" and wanted to find out where in Florida this was happening. I found that 70 percent of the new cases were coming from 7 counties. I saw that the big spikes started on June 12 and were in the same locations as the biggest protests. I also saw zero spikes in Counties like Sumter, which had no large protests. The Villages reopened May 4, why no spike in cases here or many other Florida counties?

Some new cases will happen, like the restaurant in Jacksonville that wasn't following guidelines. 16 people were infected, most likely from the 7 waiters and bartenders that were found to be positive and weren't wearing masks. Maybe the bartenders and waiters went to the protests in Jacksonville a week before.

It doesn't really matter if you think my logic doesn't compute. Perhaps you will take the time to research the data and come up with a better theory.
Per the WSJ, 3,200 Minneapolis protesters tested, 1.8% positive = 48 cases. Boston, 1,288 tested, 1.08% positive = 14 cases.

Sixteen women celebrating a birthday on June 6 go to a bar in Jacksonville FL, all 16 test positive = 16 cases.

It's fair to say the protests contributed to an uptick, but it does not appear they the main component of the surge in new cases.

Early Data Show No Uptick in Covid-19 Transmission From Protests - WSJ

coffeebean 06-19-2020 03:34 PM
Mandatory but voluntary. Ridiculous!

coffeebean 06-19-2020 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet2020 (Post 1787843)
Per the WSJ, 3,200 Minneapolis protesters tested, 1.8% positive = 48 cases. Boston, 1,288 tested, 1.08% positive = 14 cases.

Sixteen women celebrating a birthday on June 6 go to a bar in Jacksonville FL, all 16 test positive = 16 cases.

It's fair to say the protests contributed to an uptick, but it does not appear they the main component of the surge in new cases.

Early Data Show No Uptick in Covid-19 Transmission From Protests - WSJ
Protests are outdoors with some wearing masks properly. The bar in Jacksonville is indoors with no mask wearing. What does this tell us?

ColdNoMore 06-19-2020 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1787852)
Protests are outdoors with some wearing masks properly. The bar in Jacksonville is indoors with no mask wearing. What does this tell us?

That it's perfectly fine & safe to have an indoor gathering...with almost no one wearing a mask?


Answering for a friend.

allus70 06-19-2020 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodLife (Post 1787490)
Yes New York is a real success story with almost 400,000 cases and 31,000 deaths.

Epidemiologists have also proved that New York City citizens fleeing the outbreak there seeded up to 80% of the cases in the USA. Good Job!!
NYC is the financial, cultural & media center of this country.As such, hundreds of thousands Of Europeans & Chinese entered & conducted business here while the virus raged in silence, many carrying the COVID virus, seeding it in the process long before travel to the city was restricted by the Feds. They bore the brunt of the pandemic. The shame of it all is that other states could of and should have learned from their horrendous misfortune and how it was possible to bring it under control. Unfortunately, it seems they won’t.

ColdNoMore 06-19-2020 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by allus70 (Post 1787906)
NYC is the financial, cultural & media center of this country.As such, hundreds of thousands Of Europeans & Chinese entered & conducted business here while the virus raged in silence, many carrying the COVID virus, seeding it in the process long before travel to the city was restricted by the Feds. They bore the brunt of the pandemic. The shame of it all is that other states could of and should have learned from their horrendous misfortune and how it was possible to bring it under control. Unfortunately, it seems they won’t.
Nailed it! :thumbup:


.

Marvic 1 06-19-2020 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdNoMore (Post 1787066)
Much more likely than an unproved connection to "genetics," is that the higher % of people of color, per capita, getting infected/dying is because they are the ones more likely to have lower paid positions and be considered "essential"...thus, have no choice but to work.

Sanitation, transit workers, convenience store employees, lower echelon health workers, social workers, Etc., Etc. are the ones...that let us hide in our houses. :oops:
You forgot to mention Poor Health, Diabetes, Obesity and Lack of Social Distancing......

ColdNoMore 06-19-2020 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvic 1 (Post 1787916)
You forgot to mention Poor Health, Diabetes, Obesity and Lack of Social Distancing......
Actually...you're correct.

There are a plethora of scientific studies, showing how the poor are at a huge disadvantage due to the lack of access to affordable health care, the high cost of eating healthy...but plenty of easy access to cheap, high caloric food.

Marvic 1 06-19-2020 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdNoMore (Post 1787923)
Actually...you're correct.

There are a plethora of scientific studies, showing how the poor are at a huge disadvantage due to the lack of access to affordable health care, the high cost of eating healthy...but plenty of easy access to cheap, high caloric food.
You said the word "Poor".
I didn't know they did away with free healthcare (Medicaid) Food Coupons, Basically free Housing (Section 8) or Welfare checks for the "Poor"?

ColdNoMore 06-19-2020 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvic 1 (Post 1787948)
You said the word "Poor".
I didn't know they did away with free healthcare (Medicaid) Food Coupons, Basically free Housing (Section 8) or Welfare checks for the "Poor"?

"Houston, I see why we have such a problem." :oops:


Might I suggest you do even just...a little more research? :ohdear:


Thank you. :ho:

Marvic 1 06-19-2020 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdNoMore (Post 1787951)

"Houston, I see why we have such a problem." :oops:


Might I suggest you do even just...a little more research? :ohdear:


Thank you. :ho:
Turning a back on reality.... :coolsmiley:


Brother, I don't need to research, I come from the area and have seen what goes on.. :ohdear:

Hasta La Vista Amigo! :ho:

GoodLife 06-19-2020 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet2020 (Post 1787843)
Per the WSJ, 3,200 Minneapolis protesters tested, 1.8% positive = 48 cases. Boston, 1,288 tested, 1.08% positive = 14 cases.

Sixteen women celebrating a birthday on June 6 go to a bar in Jacksonville FL, all 16 test positive = 16 cases.

It's fair to say the protests contributed to an uptick, but it does not appear they the main component of the surge in new cases.

Early Data Show No Uptick in Covid-19 Transmission From Protests - WSJ
They tested a small sample of the protesters, not every protester. If every one of the millions who have protested how many positives would that 1.8% rate generate?

And how many did those positive protesters infect before getting tested?

16 women getting infected in a Jacksonville eatery is a spit in the bucket and you conclude that this proves protests are not a major component of the uptick?

Maybe one of the 7 waiters and bartenders who also tested positive was a super spreader. That happened on June 6, there were protests in Jacksonville May 30 and 31. Maybe one or more of those waiters and bartenders went to the protests.

Aloha1 06-19-2020 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by allus70 (Post 1787906)
NYC is the financial, cultural & media center of this country.As such, hundreds of thousands Of Europeans & Chinese entered & conducted business here while the virus raged in silence, many carrying the COVID virus, seeding it in the process long before travel to the city was restricted by the Feds. They bore the brunt of the pandemic. The shame of it all is that other states could of and should have learned from their horrendous misfortune and how it was possible to bring it under control. Unfortunately, it seems they won’t.
And then those New Yorkers went around the country seeding the virus everywhere. So what exactly should the other States have done. Seal their borders in violation of the Constitution?

bpascani 06-19-2020 09:08 PM
I personally feel that we need to discourage those outside of TV, that have not been sheltering in place, PLEASE DON'T COME VISIT. Also, all Villages people limit outings, maintain social distancing, and wear masks. That's the way we will keep our town safer from COVID 19 (IMHO)

jimjamuser 06-19-2020 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJblue (Post 1787771)
I really think you should be careful extolling Universal Health Care in Italy as a positive thing. Italy, with its Universal Health Care, had to choose which people that they would let die for lack of respirators and had people stacked up in hospitals like cord wood. Meanwhile, NYC had a much higher case load per capita than did Italy yet they never lacked for respirators or hospital space. If any one thing argues against Universal Health Care it is how poor it has proven to be in emergency situations like a pandemic.
Not true-Finland has minimum cases.


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