Granted the officers will ultimately cost the tax payers a lot of money. Floyd has already cost the tax payers a lot of money too. You can look at it from both sides and also agree with both views.

What is a REAL shame is retired Capt Dorn being murdered under unnecessary circumstances. A crime of avarice camouflaged as a civil protest. Where's the justice in that?

The police and what they do every day is serve and protect.
More than 90% (pick a number you like it will not be significantly different), do this very effectively every 24/7.

This current incident is attempting to create a general, across the board, hate based on the 10% (most likely much less) who violate their position.

Protest? No problem.

There is no latitude for outright violation of citizens rights by rioting, property destruction and looting.....NONE!

How does anyone think this is the way to end racism? MLK did a lot without violence.

WOW - This is amazing!
 

I was not going to comment on this thread but I will stick my two cents in. Ninety nine percent of the folks who are screaming about police brutality have NEVER been involved it a situation where you are fighting for your life. There is no way to explain this - I have been there. (State Police - 26 yrs)

I have been thinking for some time that the police - ALL of them - should just take perhaps a two month vacation. Just think of the wonderful things that could happen. You think the riots and theft and assault you are seeing now are bad. The morons that want to defund the police and have citizen patrols have NEVER been involved in what they will allow to happen. :ohdear:

The Thin Blue Line may not be always perfect but its all you have so that you can keep what you own and gets a nights sleep in your own bed. .........and away we go!

What brutalizes law enforcement personnel? They aren’t all problematic. Many weren’t a problem when they were trained. Most didn’t become cops in hope of being brutal. I think a lot of cops found themselves becoming more and more abusive or aggressive as they experienced aggression against themselves. This is NOT a matter of ethnicity—it happens in all ethnicities—but the more it happens, the more it may change police behavior. A cop assigned a neighborhood with a high crime rate is especially likely to become aggressive.

Consider this. You are a new cop, with good intentions. Perhaps you have a degree in criminal justice. If you are assigned to a neighborhood with little crime, where people treat you with respect, turn to you for help, and thank you, you prosper and you become wiser and more helpful as the years pass. However, if you are assigned to a high crime neighborhood where people lie to you all the time, sneer at you all the time, see you as the enemy rather than as a rescuer, where people curse you to your face, where you are in fear of your lives, where you see criminals breaking laws and hurting people all the time, but know that if you arrest these people, they will be released in hours, then there’s a much better chance that you will become aggressive. Who can blame cops for learning to hate criminals? Who can blame cops for developing a sense of who is a criminal and who isn’t? It may seem unfair to many of us, but that’s how the mind works, how it develops.

I suspect that most “police brutality” can be traced to cops who were brutalized by the people against whom they now show brutality. Some many have come to associate that with skin color, but bear in mind that the problem is found among African-American cops, too. If all cops were treated with respect, many more would treat others with respect.

Visit the FBI 2018 crime table. For murder they record the race of the victims and race of the offender.

For 2018 they show a total of 3,315 white murder victims. Race of offender in those murders, 2677 white, 514 African American, 61 other, 63 unknown.

For 2018 they show 2925 African American murder victims. Race of offenders in those murders 234 white, 2600 African American, 17 other, 74 unknown.

Attribution, please, like links to web pages. What are the sources of your data? Unbiased information these days is as rare as lips on a chicken but I suppose it could be found.

I have just spent time reading on the CDC and FBI homicide data base websites and I just do not see facts supporting systemic racism when it comes to murder statistics. Yes the # 1 cause of death in young black men ages 15-44 is murder while white men it is at # 4 but a whopping 94% of that murder is black on black and gang related AND 97% of the murder is committed in blue cities and has been since the 70'S.. I've lived my entire life in the suburbs of St Louis County where the Murder rate is around 3%, you can drive safely for hours North, South and West and that number doesn't change, HOWEVER, if I drive 15 minutes East that number explodes to 37%.. We St Louisans get so tired of hearing how we are the Murder Capital of the US when it's actually one little sliver of St Louis that makes up for 97% of that Murder where most of us avoid like the plague. St Louis City pop. 300,000 murder rate 37% St Louis County and surrounding areas population 2 MILLION murder rate 3%... Obviously poverty, gangs and drugs are a dangerous formula and IMHO until we get politics out of the equation these statistics will never change..

I have learned it does no good to present conflicting evidence or opinions as most people only hear and process what backs up their belief system

Nicely put!
 

:coolsmiley::bigbow:

You're not really using this factoid as an excuse for slavery, are you??? This is a blatant attempt to lessen European & American guilt and blame for purchasing human beings for use as slaves. And as far as who 'invented' it, according to many sources, it was originally the Portuguese that landed in Africa, at least some of whom had the express intent of capturing & kidnapping people to be used as forced labor. To imply otherwise is akin to saying that there would be no market for illegal drugs if there were no sellers. It is the demand that created the market - in BOTH cases.

Even though SOME slaves were allowed to buy their freedom, saying that Europeans "merely bought ... debts and security" is ridiculously implying that it was actually a humane thing to do and that the "system" was somehow meant to be beneficial to all. Absolute nonsense! These people were bought and treated as property, with no human rights whatsoever.

That you further opine that the modern descendants of the slaves are better off than if their ancestors hadn't been enslaved is specious at best. This logic completely ignores the forced labor, beatings, maiming, rape & murder that many of the slaves endured for hundreds of years before their descendants could live in the conditions of today. Please take a closer look at the history of blacks in this country after the end of the Civil War to see the ingrained, systemic & violent racism that existed in this country, some of which continues today.

Your "personal experience" appears to be that of a white European without an actual clue as to what opportunities are available to those who grew up dealing with discrimination in education, health care and employment. Hard work doesn't tell the whole story.

I am curious. You say that the stats don't add up. Then show the math.

:thumbup:

In 2017, the year of latest most complete data, the population of US was ~325.72 million people.
The population break down by race in millions.
White 249.62
Black 43.5
American Indian 4.1
Asian 18.99
Pacific Islander .79
Multi-Racial 8.72

Now lets look at murders committed in 2017 since I am focusing on deaths.
White 4188
Black 5025
American Indian 108
Asian 127
Pacific Islander 20
Multi-Racial N/A

How about people that were killed by the police in 2017 by race.
White 457
Black 233
Hispanic 179
Other 44
Unknown 84

How many police officers are killed in the line of duty in 2017?
46 killed. 42 by firearms, 3 by car used as a weapon, 1 was stabbed.

You do the math.

Crimes by Race
FBI — Table 43

Population by Race
• Population by race in the U.S. 2000-2018 | Statista

Police officers killed in 2017
2017 LEOKA Line-of-Duty Death Statistics Released — FBI

Candace Owen on George Floyd
Candace Owens: "I DO NOT support George Floyd!" & Here's Why! | Durtty Daily - YouTube

Correct. It’s not. According to FBI statistics 99% of police shootings are deemed justified. In 2016 alone almost 90% of black murders were committed by blacks. The basis of the why blacks commit the greater majority of violent crime while only being 13% of the population is that 70% of black births are to single mothers. 30% for white births. That means these children live in poverty. Poverty breeds crime. This high single mother birth rate for blacks is what should be addressed. The Obamas had eight years to address this and did not speak one word to it. That was a tragically lost opportunity.

I listened to Shelby Steele and Bob Woodson last night on this subject. Their argument is there is not systemic racism. If there was, we wouldn't have elected Barack Obama twice, we wouldn't have the number of African-American legislators that we have at all levels of government. We wouldn't have the number of black bureaucrats in all levels of government that currently exist. Their argument comes down the areas of the country that are under one party rule. One party has controlled the power and the money for decades and nothing has improved. It fact, it has gotten worse. Now, many people that live in those cities, those areas are decimated and the call to de-fund the police is rising. What do they hope to accomplish when anyone with open eyes can see that crime is going to get a lot worse in those areas where that one party rules, if they are successful at de-funding the police. If you don't know Shelby Steele then listen. [url=https://www.hoover.org/research/area-45-shelby-steele-race-and-victimization-america]Area 45: Shelby Steele On Race And Victimization In America | Hoover Institution[/url
Bob Woodson: https://woodsoncenter.org/

Slavery existed long before America was even discovered and Europeans began their trade. Slavery existed in the first civilizations like the Sumer in Mesopotamia (3500 BC)
Slavery has been inflicted by just about every race and religion on the planet. Africans, Caucasians, Asians, even American Natives had slaves. You'd be surprised that slavery still exists in several countries today, and they aren't run by white people.

You are making a blatant attempt to blame only whites for slavery. Do some more research.

You miss the main point. This murder was more like a public Lynching than murder. It was done in the public in front of a crowd and took minutes to complete the killing. A public lynching in the year 2020 In the United States is pretty frightening.

That's one opinion.
Hangings were predetermined and intentional with death the known and sought outcome.
That will most likely never be a without a doubt jury outcome in this case.

So are 18 and counting public murders during Floyd protests. Many for a pair of shoes or a flatscreen.

Even more frightening (and disgusting) are those...that don't see a problem with it. :ohdear:

A Porsche owner-that conveys instance credibility.

Organized factions might be black, white, or blue? Or red or blue?

Change from the top down = dictatorship
Change from the bottom up = democracy and freedom

Psychological studies support racism between groups. Cultural Anthropology supports tribalism. Police are not bulletproof. They have fears of "others". Many times it is just non-police that they fear. It is their tribalism, many times not personal animosity.

I came from poorly educated parents. My father died young, my mother a widow taking care of three young kids ages 6mo to 11 years old. We grew up poor before the culture of handouts and we worked hard to help her out as soon as we were old enough. I put myself through college at night while I worked full time during the day. No advantages given to us.
I’m really tired of hearing about the disadvantaged minorities who grew up with uneducated parents and no opportunities.
This is bunk! Stay in school, stay away from drugs, stay away from crime, work hard, apply all the anger that’s displayed During protests towards self improvement rather than blaming whites for your situation. There are so many programs available to minorities, scholarships, federal grant money. Pull yourself up and make positive change in your own lives.

Oh, Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz. My friends all drive Porsches. I MUST make amends!

My man-Indiana Jones. There you go adding intelligence and nuance in a system designed to max out black and white (pun intended) solutions and controversy.

Very succinct!

Just curious, but did you do this while also having...black skin?

Do you think your life would have been different at all...if you had?

Do you think any of us who were born white, really have a clue...what it's like to be black?

Other than reading about/talking to, those that are black...that is.

The Pace car vs the Porsche. Gentlemen, start your engines! Varroommmm!

Very informative. And I LOVED the Mohammed Ali quote. You go girl!

Robotic Police with A.I. decision software. Coming to YOUR neighborhood soon!

Here is the link to the FBI crime demographics tables...

FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

Attachment 84495

I am soooo ashamed :1rotfl:

Education is good. What would have been better is if in about 1965, as part of the Civil Rights Act. Lawmakers had worked on the problem of eliminating tribal ethnic separation of communities. Busing cost more money than would have been legislation forcing ALL new developments to be representative of all ethnic groups-it did NOT happen. Today we pay those costs (sometimes in lives).
Also, the tax % of the '50s + '60s was MUCH more progressive than today, where we have almost a flat income tax. That discourages upward mobility. It is MUCH more important than most people realize.

Wery possible. My solution would be to have a national draft just like the military was in the '60s. 2 or 3 years then you can leave or stay if you prove you are dependable and not corrupt and have had 3 years' worth of psychological testing to minimize aggressive ethnic prejudices. Move senior police over to the post office and keep infusing freshly drafted rookies. Volunteer police are more likely to be power-hungry and corrupt.