You are correct. My bad. I meant to say that a thousand or so murders are committed annually by teens. But the point is the same. Parents are almost never held accountable. In most cases, law enforcement doesn't even consider charging the parents unless there is some type of outside outrage.

Raise of hands. Who here knows their child is bat sheet crazy and will be a school shooter?
Exactly…
Now on the other hand, a vast majority of these school shooters are “TRANSGENDER”.
And what is being totally pushed, in schools? From a young age. Lest we forget that some are wanting tampons available in the boys bathrooms.
Seems to me this social excercise in WTF is being manufactured by something we can’t talk about on here.
Don’t get me started.

2 Amendment
 

There is not one child who wants to die for your second amendment right. Not one.
You do not need an assault rifle to protect yourself…

Why is the father of Crooks, the attempted assassin of Trump not equally being held responsible?

These examples are far fetched. Yes, parents should be responsible for their kids actions. You had the kid, raise them to be responsible and not street thugs

It would be nice if :

1. Msm didn't make SELECTIVE perps famous. No perps should be given any airtime.

2. MSM didn't educate people on how to become famous killers.

3. Msm would get it right on what weapons like the AR15 actually are. They miss classify and report constantly for the sole purpose of taking guns away from law abiding Constitutionally granted citizens.

this conservative agrees with you in this case. the kid's family are a pack of nut jobs, -Mom a loser & Dad clueless. the father knew of some report that the son made violent threats, yet STILL bought a gun for him. the whole thing is insane from start to finish, the Dad must not be right in the head to do something as foolish as he did :rant-rave:

we don't know anything yet, it's supposedly still under investigation-- give it time

Parents being held responsible and having to pay some consequences is one thing. I totally agree.

But a parent charged with 2nd degree murder?!? I’m not quite sure about that.

I knew that someone would say that but you are totally wrong. The problem these days is that parents are not raising their kids. The children of today are being raise by others since birth. It starts with Day Care some Mom and Dan can both work. then off to the Public schools which are mostly horrible. Modern day parents don’t spend much quality time with their kids. The 14 year old kid that did the shooting came from a messed up family with zero parenting skills. Sorry to tell you it is Not the Guns that are the problem it is society in general. We are living in troubled times. Hell even our government lies to us all the time. Go ask your kids how they are raising your grandchildren.

Not in all cases but in this particular case it might be justified! We only hear what the fake news tell us.

Oh boy, it's tin foil hat time. Transgender individuals represent less than 1 percent of perpetrators in all mass shootings over the past decade, and about 2 percent involved in school shootings specifically, according to The Gun Violence Archive (GVA).

So a kid who really hates his father can shoot up a school to get his father charged with murder?

School shootings have two common denominators, the semi automatic weapon designed to kill people, and the shooter being bullied in school.

Since the weapon is out there, maybe the solution is for parents to raise kids not to be bullies.

And having a "Meth Head" for a mother doesn't help.

It's clear that, just like the Crumbley's in Michigan, these parents did NOT "fail to recognize the signs of their child's mental health issues", they turned a blind eye to them. They should be held responsible. Unfortunate that today, hate and confusion drives negative actions not only of our children, but the adults as well. :sad:

The post seems to be focusing on the kid’s access to guns.

If you are determined to kill, you can find a way to do it.

The deadliest school attack in US did not involve guns.

If he used gasoline to start several fires, he probably could have killed more than 4 people. Going to a crowded football game with some gas could cause more deaths?

Or if he had gone to a local store and killed more people
would that make a difference?

Would people be as enraged if he had killed more people but hadn’t used an “assault” rifle?


Bath School disaster - Wikipedia

So, it is your contention that modern sporting rifles are to be considered "military style" weapons? Just as a point of reference, a single shot musket was once a "military style" weapon; as were single action revolvers, pump action shotguns, bolt action rifles, and just about every other firearm type in existence. Do you really want to open that can of worms?

Also, are you aware that more homicides are committed in the US each year with blunt objects than rifles of any type? This includes things like hammers, tire irons, and yes...even golf clubs. The taking of a human life by any means is horrific and tragic. But, we cannot go about banning inanimate objects simply because they were used to facilitate a crime. A fully loaded weapon can be laid upon a table and left there for a hundred years, and it will not hurt anyone until it is manipulated by a human being. Would you favor confiscation of your favorite Ping irons just because some fool used a 9-iron to kill his neighbor?

As is normal, this topic has deviated from its original premise. The issue of gun control is a hot button topic that will never be settled on this forum, but it is far from "settled science."

A question: You are a neighbor and the child Nextdoor takes your gun without your permission and commits a school shooting. Are you responsible?

There is no slippery slope. Children are allowed to have fists. 16-year-olds are allowed to drive cars. 16 year olds are not allowed to buy weapons.

In Florida:

A minor under 18 can possess a firearm at home if it is unloaded and they are participating in legal activities. These activities include hunting and sporting events under the supervision of a parent, guardian, or certified instructor.

So if the kid is NOT being supervised by a parent, guardian, or certified instructor, then the kid is NOT allowed to possess the firearm.

You also have to be 21 in order to buy one in Florida.

Your parents are responsible for you until you turn 18. If the kid got their gun from their home, either they had the supervision of their parent/guardian - in which case the parent/guardian is guilty of aiding and abetting the kid's crime - or they didn't have that supervision - in which case the parent is guilty of negligence.

How about charging the grandparents for raising irresponsible parents?

I sure do understand it. Seems a lot of people don't though.

The "why" isn't "why do we still have 2a" or "why wasn't 2a better clarified?" It's "why does it exist?"

It exists because at the time of the founding of this country, we didn't have the National Guard. Our country wasn't a "United" states of America, it was individual states working together to ensure freedom from Britain and a tyrannical government. So when it came time to fight Britain, the people (also known as We The People) rose up together, formed our militias, and brought our own weapons to the fight. We didn't have armories that provided arms for us. We had to use our own. But carrying a firearm in public was ILLEGAL at the time. And so - the right of THE PEOPLE...to keep and bear arms - was adopted.

That is the reason the 2nd Amendment exists.

Was the house locked??

Was the child allowed to enter the house in the past??

Was the child trespassing??

That parents are being charged at all proves there is a slope and your last paragraph describes how slippery it is.

This seems like the equivalent of looking for deep pockets in a lawsuit. If the person committing the crime is a minor then you can also go after the parents for your pound of flesh.

I'm sure there are some cases where the parents truly were negligent and should face some repercussions. Maybe thus is one of those cases. But charging parents ought to be the rars exception and not the new standard.

What YOU just posted and what is constantly the refrain following any shooting event dances all around the issue and any solution to the issue. Laws will not and CANNOT keep people who SHOULD not have guns from getting them. They can steal them and they do. If they are in certain groups they know just how to get them for sure.

Are you saying that if you are a descendant of slave owners that you should pay a price for their sins?

The knife could cut both ways.

There have been only two cases that I am aware of, of the parents being charged...The shooting in Michigan where both parents were in fact convicted and now this one and I believe this father is indeed culpable and should be charged.

Correct me if I’m wrong here. A military style weapon is not a military weapon. A military weapon is fully automatic. You can have the same firepower out of a non-military style weapon that is a semi automatic. I always wonder why we want to treat a weapon differently because it looks different.

This case reminds me of the guy who is given a speeding ticket for going 65 mph in a 60 mph zone when every other driver is going 85 mph. I don't mind holding parents responsible if all parents are prosecuted equally. That is the duty of law enforcement, including the District Attorney.

That is the logic that says "get rid of all laws, because if people are in certain groups they'll know just how to break them anyway."

The reason we have laws, rather than no laws, is so that there can be consequences for our actions.

Yes, you can break a law that says "you shouldn't have a gun" and have one anyway, and then use it to kill someone.

But when you do that, you're now breaking TWO laws. The one where you killed someone AND the one that said you weren't supposed to have the gun in the first place. When this happens, it's easier to convict the criminal, AND it results in a stiffer penalty - imprisonment, fines, community service, parole - whatever it is, it's harsher because you broke that "you shouldn't have that gun" law.

Guns don't kill people. Only people kill people. So stop letting people have the guns? The guns won't shoot themselves if they're just sitting in a lockbox in a warehouse of a gun factory, afterall. That would be the logical conclusion to that argument.

The pro-2a rhetoric is to hold onto their firearms no matter what, for no reason other than they read on a 200+year-old piece of paper that they had the right to hold onto it, and the NRA has pushed their agenda to ensure they don't go bankrupt. They need sycophants and followers even more now than ever.

If someone wants a pistol in their home for self-defense, or a rifle for their farm to keep the coyotes away from their chickens, or a hunting rifle to shoot for their supper, I'm all for it. 100% pro-gun.

But there is no reason for any civilian to bring a firearm to a school, unless you plan on killing people with it. There is no reason for any civilian to bring a firearm to a church, unless you plan on killing people with it. There is no reason for any civilian to bring a semi-automatic rifle anywhere, public or private other than the shooting range, unless you are planning on killing people with it.

Guns are the tools of death. Unlike a knife, a gun can't gut a fish. Unlike an ice pick, a gun won't cleanly cut a chunk of ice off a block for your mai tai. Unlike a car, a gun won't get you from point A to point B. All of these things can be used as weapons. But of this list, only the gun was designed specifically to kill.

If you're not planning on using it for its specific function, then you shouldn't be in possession of it at all.

And let’s not forget the elephant in the room: a society that has, for the most part, removed God from the civil society.

Response
 

Are you a psychiatrist who can perform a diagnosis without even talking with the person? Did you consider that the problem may well be the parents?

A person’s life is far more valuable than anything else. There is nothing more valuable. Please stop putting an inanimate object valued above a person’s life/soul.

And - do you not live in The Villages? There's a new church being built every year here. God didn't invent guns. God didn't order Moses to bring down an 11th commandment "thou shalt keep and bear arms." God didn't instruct Jesus to teach his disciples how to shoot an AR-15 with a bump stock. God didn't say to Eve, "This is Eden. Enjoy all the guns, but don't eat the apple."

God has nothing to do with any of this.

God has everything to do with this. Bullying is the culprit in so many of these shootings and how many parents are teaching the loving one another precepts of the Bible anymore? Why isn't bullying being addressed with strong punishments?

Are you aware how many criminal gangs have moved into this country recently, are infiltrating societies and cities and are now coming to light and beginning to use their tactics?

If you think the local National Guard has the resources to control these growing forces in communities, I believe you are sadly mistaken. Gangs recruit and grow members constantly and they are vicious. You are welcome to keep a lady-like pistol for protection, most of us are interested in keeping a weapon capable of destroying any planned attacks to harm our families and dismantle Western Civilization.

Philosophy 101
 

It’s a slippery slope and meanders into the weeds quickly. The premise is faulty. Of course we live in an irresponsible society now? Accountability is now only for the weakest link.

OMG that's not even close to the point, its about our connotational rights that are being taken away slowly and that's how it starts with slippery slopes! JMHO

^^^This. There has been a significant increase in mental health problems amongst teens (and the general population as well). A normal, mentally stable person will never (or extremely rarely) just go out and kill people.

I don't recall the article but the author stated that teens today, because of social media, spend an exorbitant amount of time maintaining their identities than past generations. It used to be kids would only have to maintain their identity during the 7–8 hours they were in school. Now, it is almost 24/7. The level of anxiety this produces is enormous and one wrong post, picture, or video can haunt a kid for a very long time. In someways, I empathize with them because I didn't have to deal with that when I was a teenager.

This problem with identity stems from what Charles Taylor, the Canadian philosopher, called "expressive individualism". It's the idea that you are what you feel on the inside and that society or culture cannot place boundaries on individual expression. It's no longer "individual liberty" but "individual sovereignty". It's the water we swim in today and why we are so fragmented and so full of anxiety.

It would take me too long to connect the dots in this post but they are connected...

That is why it is the Bill of Rights and not the Bill of Practical Reasons.

Hardly any "assault rifles" are owned by private citizens. You must have a federal permit to own an "assault rifle" if you are referring to a military weapon, aka automatic. Just because a rifle LOOKS like a military rifle, does not make one a military rifle. Kind of like a cross dresser. Just because the guy looks like a gal, does not make him a female.
If the powers that be insist on making decisions on HOW a child is raised, we should not hold the parent responsible, since they have their hands tied behind their backs when it comes to discipline. PERIOD.