The why we have free speech was so we could complain about having a king.
We no longer have a king, time to get rid of free speech.

The reason we have freedom of religion was so people did not have to be in the church of the king.
We no longer have a king and there is no Church of America. Time to get rid of freedom of religion.

Reduction to absurdity, a favorite of Aristotle.

I would demand your money back from wherever you got your Constitutional Law degree, they taught you some very, very wrong information. So wrong, I am sure you can sue them over it.

Kind of off subject, but you brought up a thought. "They" want those that did not own slaves to pay those that were never slaves...........for what reason? Just a thought and not requiring an answer.

If that were truly the case, we wasted a lot of lives defending freedom and liberty!

I just saw A Man For All Seasons on TMC recently. Surely he thought there were more important things than living.

This logic also says the government can clarify what types of free speech you can have and it wouldn't violate the constitution.

They could say you can use a quill and ink on parchment, a printing press, or a specific place in a town squares but nothing modern like a forum called TOTV, email, TV, paper, etc.

The Supreme Court exists to stop people from imposing such obviously violations of our rights.

For example, to create a limit on the second amendment, a government wishing to place restrictions on firearm ownership must “affirmatively prove that its firearms regulation is part of the historical tradition that delimits the outer bounds of the right to keep and bear arms.”

Your desired violations clearly do not meet that standard.

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” B Franklin, yes that is out of context but still has merit. The constitution was to protect you from the, government, the right to bear arms was to help keep government from too much power, yes an armed uprising is a little far fetched these days. I don't think many would argue that the framers could not anticipate a day when society could not protect it self from its own citizens. It is within living memory when things were very different, gun sales through the mail , mass shooting just about unheard of . Much more personal freedom and we have the other side of the coin.

You realize a gun is a gun, it's the minds of people and the culture that changed.

I agree, but then I remember how my father secured the rifle and shotgun in our home, and how easily I and an older brother could defeat his efforts. We had a rifle target range in the basement, and I was probably in kindergarten or first grade when I learned how to shoot, how to care for, and to respect firearms for what they were and what they could do. Maybe that contributed to keeping me from shooting anything I shouldn’t. There was no fascination or fantasy factor with firearms.

Hey, you can have a small Cal muzzle loader anything else has military potential , stop complaining , background checks , Ok , but we need to make some adjustments to standards as to who can own a firearm.

I don't keep any pistol at all. I don't allow guns in my house. I have no problem with other people allowing guns in their houses. I don't approve of guns. But I live in a country where guns are allowed, and as an American, I accept that.

Guns are not allowed to be used to attack other people, however. No weapon is allowed to be used to attack other people. But the #1 tool used to kill people - is a gun. A gun can kill more people in a short period of time than a knife, or car, or ice pick, or your fists.

God didn't create guns, god didn't create idiots who reject accountability and responsibility. God didn't create people who blame god for bad things, offer thoughts and prayers instead of taking steps to prevent bad things from happening again, and god didn't create people who - instead of acknowledging that bad things happen when bad people have guns - focus on their rights to have guns. That wasn't god. That was 100% man-made conspiracy, manipulation, influence of the NRA, which also was not created by god.

God did, however, order the first-born male to be slaughtered. God also ordered Abraham to murder his son. God has a lot to say about a lot of things:

Proverbs 30:17 states, "The eye that mocks a father and scorns to obey a mother will be picked out by the ravens of the valley and eaten by the vultures".

I'd suggest a careful and thorough read of the Book of Deuteronomy if you want to know what God thinks about most behaviors.

As for Jesus - he died for the sins of the past. It was basically a pardon for crimes committed, not for future crimes.

As for the evangelicals who only abide the New Testament - they are very quick to remind us about the Ten Commandments. But those were written for the Old Testament, which their Jesus said they could disregard since he died for their sins.

God - has no place in discussion about Constitutional rights. At all. We even have an amendment about that, the whole separation of church and state thing. It's the amendment that comes right before the right to keep and bear arms.

In reading comprehension, one would understand that you cannot ban people from their belief in God and how the lack of faith and condemnation of God is the discussion here. It absolutely belongs in this discussion. It is my belief, no matter how hard you stomp your foot, that the loss of faith, the every man for himself and hate in this world are the step stones to violence, crime and lead to the need for self-protection.

The right to bear arms is for everyone's freedom to protect themselves and their family against the vile, godless actions of the evil prowling the earth.

Everyone has their "opinion" even if it might be distorted. Interesting how someone can take a very simple quote and bend it to fit their agenda. Since this thread is NOT about religion or the 2nd Amendment, I am not going to argue the Bible or how one allows their opinion to be presented as fact.
The subject is a reflection on the perpetrator's father being held responsible for his son's actions.
I believe (my humble opinion) that making the parent's responsible for the child's actions, merely tells the child that it's not his/her fault, but the parent's fault. If a child is charged with adult violations, ie. charges with murder and tried as an adult, then the parents should not be held responsible. Even if they ARE held responsible, it should be of a lesser violations, such as child neglect or maybe even contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Unless there is a conspiracy where the parent is involved in such heinous act perpetrated, the parent is not guilty of the principle charge, such as murder.

False Equivalence, a.k.a. Apples and Oranges
 

Geez. There is a pattern in this thread indicating that because this monstrous idiot of a father has been hauled in, some here are convinced parents could be held responsible for everything terrible their spawn does.

That is a ridiculous extrapolation, a false equivalency, apples to oranges.

Why?

In May of '23 the kid was accused of making threats to shoot up a school. The police followed through and talked to the kid and his father.

The kid lied and said he would never make such threats, even as a joke.

The father said he had hunting guns but they were kept locked up. Lots of people have locked up guns for hunting, so this was not an unusual statement. The kid lied and the father's answer was within what a responsible gun owner might own and have locked up. Both the father and the son must have been smooth talkers. The police had to accept the situation. They had done what they could. Parental rights and all that.

BUT that father knew his kid had issues. He and the meth head mother had wrecked their offspring. (I think I read that the kid changed schools after that -- but I need to fact-check myself on that part.)

THEN came Christmas '23. And what does this pos father give his mentally messed up, young teenage son? AN ASSAULT WEAPON! And that 14 year-old took his Christmas present and killed those innocent people.

Connect the dots.

The father in this case must be held accountable.

I don't know what the charges should be. But there needs to be some serious prison time for the father. Stupid denial and neglect and stoking the kid's mental issues by giving him a Christmas present designed for fast killing. Not exactly a Norman Rockwell Christmas card image is it.

As I read this thread and saw the weird false equivalence pattern emerging, I had to wonder where this apples to oranges leap is coming from. It smells like one of those diversionary tactics that are so prevalently spewed from sources that bank on the susceptibility of those who fall for constant and well-planned distraction from the real issues.

Why is it so easy for some people to check their critical thinking skills at the door to their screen of choice and get all caught up in ridiculous "Yeah, Buts" that make no sense? Nobody is going to hold all parents responsible for what their kids do. But this time, it is a clear connection to the murders.

Boomer

False Equivalence, a.k.a. Apples and Oranges
 

Geez. There is a pattern in this thread indicating that because this monstrous idiot of a father has been hauled in, some here are convinced parents could be held responsible for everything terrible their spawn does.

That is a ridiculous extrapolation, a false equivalency, apples to oranges.

Why?

In May of '23 the kid was accused of making threats to shoot up a school. The police followed through and talked to the kid and his father.

The kid lied and said he would never make such threats, even as a joke.

The father said he had hunting guns but they were kept locked up. Lots of people have locked up guns for hunting, so this was not an unusual statement. The kid lied and the father's answer was within what a responsible gun owner might own and have locked up. Both the father and the son must have been smooth talkers. The police had to accept the situation. They had done what they could. Parental rights and all that.

BUT that father knew his kid had issues. He and the meth head mother had wrecked their offspring. (I think I read that the kid changed schools after that -- but I need to fact-check myself on that part.)

THEN came Christmas '23. And what does this pos father give his mentally messed up son? AN ASSAULT WEAPON! And that 14 year-old took his Christmas present and killed those innocent people.

Connect the dots.

The father in this case must be held accountable.

I don't know what the charges should be. But there needs to be some serious prison time for the father. Stupid denial and neglect and stoking the kid's mental issues by giving him a Christmas present designed for fast killing. Not exactly a Norman Rockwell Christmas card image is it.

As I read this thread and saw the weird false equivalence pattern emerging, I had to wonder where this apples to oranges leap is coming from. It smells like one of those diversionary tactics that are so prevalently spewed from sources that bank on the susceptibility of those who fall for constant and well-planned distraction from the real issues.

Why is it so easy for some people to check their critical thinking skills at the door to their screen of choice and get all caught up in ridiculous "Yeah, Buts" that make no sense? Nobody is going to hold all parents responsible for what their kids do. But this time, it is a clear connection to the murders.

Boomer

CDC statistics for firearm deaths for <18 yo
 

From the CDC most recent data:

"The overall increase in U.S. gun deaths since the beginning of the pandemic includes an especially stark rise in such fatalities among children and teens under the age of 18. Gun deaths among children and teens rose 50% in just two years, from 1,732 in 2019 to 2,590 in 2021."

54% of overall US gun deaths are from suicide.

Here is the over incidence of shootings for US population:

U.S. gun suicide and gun murder rates reached near-record highs in 2021 | Pew Research Center

"Older children and teens are much more likely than younger kids to be killed in gun-related incidents. Those ages 12 to 17 accounted for 86% of all gun deaths among children and teens in 2021, while those 6 to 11 accounted for 7% of the total, as did those 5 and under. Still, there were 179 gun deaths among children ages 6 to 11 and 184 among those 5 and under in 2021."

(There is a correction acknowleged but it helps to know the statistics)

To avoid "Liar liar pants on fire" fact check, support this seemingly absurd statement with evidence.

If it’s your child, grandchild, or spouse that is murdered, your opinion is likely to change about owning military style weapons.

Many "gangbangers" don't know who their daddy is!

Off topic^ Reread the title of the post.

Also very shallow thinking. Spouse murdered in vehicular homicide - outlaw guns?, cars? Murdered by knife. guns or knifes? Murdered with single shot shotgun, military style weapons?

Weak conclusion due to shallow thought process.

That is a non sequitur as you failed to mention a murder weapon. In the proposed case what was used to commit the murder? It might or might not be a "military style" weapon whatever that is.

What if someone close to me was murdered by a vehicle, knife, ax, hammer, arrow from a bow or crossbow, a rock from a sling, suffocation with a plastic garbage bag or even a chainsaw? How would that change my opinion about owning one of them? It might or it might not. If a steak knife was used should I not use one to cut my steak?

AR-15s
 

An AR -15 although not fully automatic, should not be sold to civilians. It purpose is for mass killings. The manufacturers should be banned from selling weapons like these and banned from making anymore ammunition. There are plenty of other weapons to choose from
that will satisfy your rights . How much more slaughter of innocent children can you endure ? Only
My opinion as a former US Marine trained as a lethal tool .

School Buddies are a Good Source for Information
 

Too late! You've self started.

I agree and you can’t let a 14 year old
who murders in cold blood should never be let out in society to repeat .

The parent isn't being held responsible for the child's actions. The parent is being held responsible for their own actions, which created the opportunity for the child to commit the crime. The child is also being held responsible for his own actions and will be tried as an adult.

The child was 14 years old. He should not have had access to any firearm, and at age 14 his parents ARE responsible for their children, 24/7. Colin Grey, the father, KNOWINGLY allowed his son to possess a gun.

This is only the second time in the history of this country that a parent was charged in connection with a crime committed by their minor child.

Colt Gray, the kid, was charged with 4 counts of murder. Colin Gray, the father, was charged with involuntary manslaughter and 2nd degree murder. So yes - the father is being charged with lesser crimes. Dad put the gun in the kid's hand. The kid pulled the trigger. All is as it should be, with regards to who is being charged for what.

When it's your own grandchild who dies, would you prefer thoughts first, or prayers first? Or - will you want to punish the father who admitted to giving his 14-year-old kid a semi-automatic weapon AND the 14-year-old kid who chose to use it to kill your grandchild?

Daddy may be a gangsta also. Or not.

General George Patton wore either Colt 45 or SW 357 revolvers during war. That was good enough for him. Should be more than enough fire power for any gun loving civilian, imho.

Righttt! Would you volunteer, please, to inform all the criminals, gang members and so forth that they are limited to weapons used by George Patton in the 1930's and 1940's?:clap2:

Likely an emotional response rather than logical, fact based.

I would like an end to bullying and for mental health care and facilities provided to the mentally ill and children removed from homes where care is minimal and caretakers are drug addicted and demented. Let us use the financial resources of this country for it's people first.

The anti-faith jabs are getting very annoying.

The second amendment specifies the necessity of a well REGULATED militia, not a well armed militia. the amendment also specifies a means to that regulation of the militia, in that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

3 transgender and 1 non-binary in the last several years. Or, about 1.3% of mass shooters. Hardly an epidemic.
LGBTQ... haters propaganda. Yes! Propaganda, or lies, if you prefer.

True, but the threat of putting Momma in prison over their action would be quite a deterrent. Gangbangers assume they will be dead or in prison by 30, so they don't care. But if the penalty was their beloved mother serving 10 years, they would think twice prior to committing a felony.

Noways it should be 30. The warped brains can’t get off iPhone games long enough to make intelligent decisions. :duck:

Who kidding they’re not going to prison.

Then have to take them away for half the parents.

That’s cause there was no Tec 9s

This evening we have an ongoing situation on I-75 where a person is randomly shooting at cars. Person of interest is a white male in his 30s who today bought an AR 15 and 2000 rounds of ammo. Only in America. Thank you Clarence Thomas, Thank you Federalist Society, Thank you NRA. Thoughts and prayers for everybody. A hunting gun, for hunting humans.

George had his choice of everything that was available. He chose what he chose and I see no reason to guess he would have traded his faves in for a Tec9.
Now, my weapons of choice is water balloons. I like the squishy feel of them. 🙂🙃🫠😉

But you have no thoughts for the people in those apartments in Colorado where armed gang members were breaking in doors... Disarm the decent members of society so the evil ones can have their way. And not one word about the untreated mentally ill in this nation. I guess that is picking your battles..

Is that also going to include the parents in Chicago and Baltimore &DC ? or we doing selective prosecutions? If so, we are going to need to build more prisons. While I don’t disagree with it I’m afraid the gun isn’t the problem as more people die from hands, fist and feet than guns according to FBI. Honestly , I am sick and tired of the FBI dropping the ball. This kid was allowed to deny he posted anything about a shooting and they let it go without monitoring him or getting psychological help ! The aunt stated the kid had reached out to every adult in his life and the neighbors said there was neglect and abuse, “kids locked out of house crying to get in” and a drug addicted mother.
I thought the schools were suppose to be picking up on abuse “ first line of defense” when a child comes to school dirty, hungry and obviously not looked after???
Seems like everyone of these “someone should have said something” because the SEE something was glaring! ALL the adults in this kids life failed AGAIN ! Probably too busy on their phones !