Really good question! Our directives have been divisive and those who follow the recommendations of scientists need to continue doing so.

It would appear that we can either count better than other countries or we can't count well at all. The truth is probably in the middle. Our count is simply wrong. Other countries may have lower counts but be equally wrong.

You know the answer to your question, as does everyone who has stayed awake for the last six months.

The Civil Discourse Club in The V recently hosted a Zoom meeting w/a former CDC employee giving an update on Covid. It's a great club to join to receive pertinent info on many subjects. Pertinent to Covid were some valid points:
*Due to a lack of clear messaging, 2 countries suffer: US & Spain (Spain recently handed virus control to 'regional' govts to their peril)
*In Korea now, easy tests are similar to a pregnancy test (available at Dollar General)
*Across the world, there are over 200 possible vacs in development.
*60-70% of population needs to be vaccinated or recovered for herd immunity. As of now, only 2% have been exposed.
*Virus not changing as quickly as normal flu virus. In S. Africa where they are currently going through regular 'flu' season, it's not nearly as severe, thanks mostly to masking already taking place for Covid.
*Estimates vacs availability April 2021 earliest.
*Convalescent plasma has NOT been effective.
*Regarding govt. payments to hospitals for Covid diagnoses: They do NOT receive payment if patient admitted w/pre-existing condition.
*Initial messaging from the CDC was diluted dramatically.
*One metric used to determine Covid deaths is average of TOTAL deaths (car accidents, suicide, cancer, heart attack, etc) in same time frame year-to-year. It doesn't change much EXCEPT for this year where, sometime ago, deaths were up over 200,000. This points to Covid deaths actually being underreported.

Actually, according to one study the death rate is lower since the pandemic than it was from 2014 through 2018. I got this info from Macrotrends so I can not attest to the veracity of the information.

The U.S. is the most traveled country on the planet, both domestically and internationally. Our vibrant economy and standard of living were direct contributors to the spread because of our ability to travel, eat out, etc. Plus, Americans tend not to be very good rules followers. Even today, with all the recommendations that have been made on mask wearing, millions don't wear them. You can try to make this political, but the simple fact is that the problem is us.

Why does the US have on 2% exposed after 6 months or more? Was it because we locked down? Some doctors I've heard say this would only delay herd immunity and it sounds feasible at this point.

The virus
 

You said it plain that they had the virus. Many of us over our lifetime have had heart issues , stroke and some diabetes, and if you get Covid 19 it makes you vulnerable and you could likely die. Wear a mask, social distance and wash your hands. If we all did that from March-April many lives would have been saved. It’s science pure and simple.

I agree. We travel too much, fly too much, use up resources. And we live in a democracy that perhaps allowed too much freedom of expression and ignorance to the problem. I am a retired physician and thought it was crazy when the CDC wasn't saying wear masks at the start. Most but still not enough Villagers are acting safely but it's pretty easy to walk and play golf and not work.

There is no documented proof that hospitals, as a whole, are reporting all deaths being associated with Covid-19. Maybe some, but they would be in the minority. Yes, people have other critical diseases but if COVID-19 exasperates the condition which ultimately causes the death, then the death is caused by COVID-19. In other words, if the person did not contact COVID-19, they wouldn’t have died at this time.

Die of covid or with covid and you still are dead. If you get pneumonia and already have heart problems, the pneumonia may push you over the edge.
What killed you? Would the person have lived longer if they didn't get pneumonia?
200000 deaths.
Glad no one close to you died.

Hard to say either way.
But.
They did die because of it.
200,000 of them!

If you are trying to make a comment about Covid 19, then saying they died of Covid 19 When in fact they did have the Virus, then they are reporting it correctly. Having heart disease, diabetes, stroke, etc. would not have been The probable cause of death, Covid 19 would be the correct reporting.

Could it be because we are a much more developed country and have the means to travel and we depend on commerce much more than those in 3rd world countries that rarely leave their homes and villages? All developed countries are doing worse than the undeveloped. Perfectly understandable but still sad.

You are lucky
 

Well, then you are very lucky. Many of us do know of those who have had Covid as well as those who have passed away from Covid. Very disturbing the insensitivity of some of the remarks on this thread bashing the numbers being reported as a selfish reason to minimize the impact of this terrible pandemic. Those who have lost a loved one to this know it IS real and feel their loss in immeasurable ways.

If not for Covid-19 those people would still be alive. Covid-19 is new to all humans and makes them sick or not depending on their bodies defenses. Older people, even if they had no "health issues" (which would be almost impossible) are the most vulnerable and people who live in The Villages would be at risk in varying degrees due to age.

I don't understand this kind of rationale. All of those flags you saw stuck in the ground on last night's news in Washington on the mall, all 200,000 of those flags represent people who would be alive. They did die of Covid-19.

Can't fix stupid
 

It's very unfortunate but you just can't fix stupid. It's a fact. Seems the majority of the deaths were caused by individuals who just can't think for themselves in a smart way and ended up killing family members. Sad.

Correct.
....and 200,000 deaths were because of Covid.

96 percent would still be alive had they not had COVID-19. I too have four Doctors I’m close with and all have confirmed that hospitals DONT get paid more for a positive COVID death. Really amazing people believe politicians over science. The latest one I heard was mask don’t work. That’s why Doctors and nurses wear them every day. Twenty six years USAF and I thought During times of crisis we’re supposed to join together and generally care about fellow Americans. We pick politics over family, over country, over neighbors. We’re okay with lies and dishonest politicians as long as it serves our purpose. We should demand better from our leaders and if we don’t get it we vote them out. Leaders are supposed to unite us not divide us. Divided we will fall!

Sorry GG, but I have to disagree with you. SOME of those people would be alive (but for how long?), SOME died of COVID-19. We simply don't have good data to go by. There is tremendous financial incentive to hospitals to list COVID-19 as a cause of hospitalization and/or death. Every hospital has coding specialists that do nothing but take ALL the diagnoses on a patient chart and list them in the proper ORDER to maximize reimbursement. As you can imagine, COVID ranks high on the list, perhaps as much as $13,000 additional revenue. It makes financial sense, otherwise they are just leaving money on the table.
Death certificates are different, they are filled out by the physician, although on occasion these coding experts have asked me to change to order in which I wrote it. Needless to say, I invited them to perform a reproductive act upon themselves. :1rotfl:

USA population 330,000,000 divided by 200,000= 0.0006% of the population in USA have died of COVID.... and of those who died a high % are over 60 years old...
I’m sorry but those numbers do not require a shout down of our economy and lives.

I find it hard to believe healthcare professionals across this nation are conspiring to fake the number of Covid deaths. In a nursing near my Mom, 33 patients died over a 10 day period of symptoms consistent with Covid. They only reported 11 because the other 22 were not able to get tested. They were not counted as cases or deaths! I believe the count could actually be low. I also believe Covid is the cause of death if the person would be alive had they not contracted Covid.

Leaving politics and blame out if this, most of us were aware enough of the great danger of Covid-19 after seeing the on the news the huge number of people dying from it in other parts of the world.

It began in China and we began to hear about it in the last part of 2019, but in the early months it was happening so fast that it was impossible to get figures and facts on the deaths and the awful illnesses clogging hospitals with people unable to breathe and to get oxygen into their systems.

Severe illness began to be noticed in NYC in February. By March, thousands of people began to die in NYC. Not even medical experts knew exactly what to do and how to stop the spread. Many people are now being blamed for not knowing WHAT to do but at the beginning, even the people and agencies that we have always relied on were struggling for understanding.

Following fast on the heels of fear and uncertainty, came conspiracy figures and big mouth politicians.

What a mess. I look at our daughter who lives in London. The figures for the U.K. are much better than ours and their government has been much stricter; fines harsher, and punishments greater.

We will never know. Some people don't care about rules and laws and would ignore them no matter who issued the rules. Some people, too many, do not have even a basic comprehension about communicable disease.

I see people acting to me in a reasonable manner being taunted by others for wearing masks.

What is good is that most people aren't fooled and "get" the science of being careful and respecting this awful virus.

GG. Things in UK are not as good as you may think.
Our numbers are pretty abysmal, and now we face the second wave, with numbers rising every day, and doubling every 7 days
The latest effort to control the virus seems to rely on the pubs closing at 10pm. and everyone being nice to each other.
I am sure it will work fine!:ohdear:

It's a virus for Pete's sake. We don't hear this type of rhetoric during a flu season when up to 80,000 die. Usually it takes 2.5 years to create a vaccine. From all reports I have read, we will have a Covid-19 vaccine within a couple of months. That will be only about a year or a little less from the start of this in the US to vaccine production. The manufacturing facilities and distribution networks were ramped up months ago and are ready to go. We are a free country and people do as they please. You can not expect a free people to be locked down. They won't stand for it and there is no basis in law to allow it. These are the consequences of freedom. To place blame for an act of nature on anyone is simply immature and childish. The only person you can control is yourself.

COVID-19 Charts

Bob Woodward is NOT our President.

Our President has the responsibility.....

Why oh why are we always and continually looking to blame someone else.

Why cannot the "cultists" (I use that word now because have been convinced) ever see the wrongs.

Woodward would have been EXTREMELY IRRESPONSIBLE to say anything as a journalists and you guys would have called him fake news, etc. Loudly

No. The actual number of deaths (by any cause) are widely available. Again, if you want to know the number of deaths caused by COVID-19, compare the actual number of total deaths, month-by-month, from 2019 to 2020. Since death rates are pretty stable, any increase is due to COVID-19.

There are more than 400000 deaths from heart attacks and more than 300000 from cancer in 2020. Why isn't that headline news?

I think I understand what you are saying and I really don't care if the hospitals get more money by using their coding and I don't really like people, even doctors, who I respect and admire, saying things like "for how long". I am 80. Assuredly not for a whole lot longer but I find life just as satisfying and exciting and worthwhile and full as I ever did. You will too Doc. No need to feel bad. I do understand the point you are making.

The bottom line is this, but for Covid-19, many, many, many, many people would not have died ...in the last seven months.

Because of all those folks who died we now have a new cause of death. That is why.

That's true. And BTW, my comment "for how long" had nothing to do with age and everything to due with their underlying health. A person with a 15% LVEF has about 2 months, a person with stage 4 pancreatic ca 4-5 months, maybe. If they get sick with COVID, it will probably kill them. If they just test positive without additional symptoms, maybe not.

PS. I think you'll live to 110

Not exactly true. Thttps://www.snopes.com/fact-check/medicare-hospitals-covid-patients/ BTW there is no patient for which the hospital receives $0 - they receive whatever Medicare pays under a very complicated formula. Many hospital admisistrators game the system all the time on all sorts of admissions to get the most money; that is their job.

We are keenly aware of deaths from heart attacks and cancer. A deadly virus? Not so aware and certainly not protected.

And, regarding private insurance, insurance companies hire lawyers and doctors to pick apart claims to find to find reasons they can breach their contracts. One of my family members works for a large hospital chain and for over five years had the job to fight Aetna, a "bad payer," to get claims paid. At least Medicare pays timely.

I know of people who have had it and I don't know a lot of people.

Or you can look at it this way: USA has 4.2% of the world's population but 20% of the world's Covid deaths thus far, the highest of any country. Not proud.

Cover 19 is real, death due 2 and related 2 Covid 19 is real, The US reactions and responses to the pandemic is unacceptable for a country with our resources. Can we please do 1 thing correctly related 2 Covid 19.

WEAR A MASK AND SOCIAL DISTANCING WHEN IN PUBLIC!

OK, so what would you have done differently? Ignore Fauci and Birx??? Create a panic with gloom and doom talk??? Use psychic ability to know the facts about the virus before they were discovered? Even Monday morning quarterbacking is difficult with this one.

There are many reasons for the US to have a higher percentage of deaths---mobile population, genetically diverse, frontier mentality, distrust of authority---pick one or more.

I wish you were right, but your not. The best and most accurate responses to this thread have been from GraceGirl. She is correct, Nonpartisan and clearly understands Covid 19 and it’s danger to all ages and all states of health!!!! Thank you GracieGirl.

We are the the largest free society in the world. We have many INDEPENDENT thinkers . Many never wore a mask or washed their hands. The president had many protective services that kept people at a distance. Most of us had to depend on our FELLOW man ( thus..the problem!) to follow some easy guidelines. Only a fool can think that the nations businesses could remain closed for months on end and not have ENORMOUS financial crisis and closures. We are free and that means there is always a risk. But...I'll take our way of life over any dictatorial government planning my life!