Originally Posted by Beyond The Wall (Post 1837056)

If 50,000 had not died in Ny and NJ the stats are more in line with rest of the world. More importantly or freedoms allow us to travel and interact more. The blame should be squarely on China. They knew it was a highly contagious disease. They quantified their travel to their cities BUY allowed citizens to travel out! Simply a bio attack on the world

Originally Posted by T186021 (Post 1836917)

How can the US have 5% of the world population but 20% of the deaths related to Covid? We have failed to protect our population from the pandemic. How did our country become so anti-science during this world wide health crisis?

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1837281)

OK, so what would you have done differently? Ignore Fauci and Birx??? Create a panic with gloom and doom talk??? Use psychic ability to know the facts about the virus before they were discovered? Even Monday morning quarterbacking is difficult with this one.

There are many reasons for the US to have a higher percentage of deaths---mobile population, genetically diverse, frontier mentality, distrust of authority---pick one or more.

Originally Posted by chet2020 (Post 1837297)

200,000 deaths is no big deal. It's only old people and sick people dying. We would have died anyway. No reason for anyone in The VIllages to worry. "It affects virtually nobody" according the man in charge, best to downplay it. We old people should "take one for the team." Besides, the 200,000 number is not real. There are 200,000+ excess deaths this year, but that's a coincidence. It's just the flu. Best to continue on our current path, we're a model to the world. /S

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1837299)

Did you hear how it was described to POTUS in late January/early February by intelligence. POTUS recollection.....this is the biggest national security threat you will see ever. His words...and it is much stronger than any flue, and it travels in the air.

In public, he continued to downplay, and even said "it will dissipate by April" knowing that was a lie. His comments about it traveling by air was to continually, and still, mock that effort, while refusing to set an example.

Just a few examples of opportunities to perhaps save lives, squandered, all the while not hiding his making it about politics.

This is not Monday morning quarterbacking...it is simply using his own words and showing the deceit used by his office.

Your assumption is desperate and defies logic. We have been without guidance from our lead from the beginning.

Joining in booing that Lt. Gov for wearing a mask, yelling how it basically effects nobody is not leadership....it is a game show move.

Originally Posted by Art cov (Post 1836941)

It’s sad that New York n New Jersey had 1/4 of all deaths. Nursing homes, homeless, prisoners had the greatest of numbers. I remember when they told us maybe 2.4 million may die. Glad that didn’t happen! We won’t know exactly as they have changed, and predicted lots of crazy things. Covid has shown we Americans are gullible on so many fronts. However it’s a tragedy if only one person has passed because of this Covid 19. One thing for sure I believe we are more mindful of washing hands, wiping down grocery cart handles and so on. You can think of many changes that possibly you have made. Did Covid come from China, a lab, a bat, bad oysters off the Asian coast? Many tested positive (many times) and some tested positive and were never tested. Every crazy thought and idea came out of this C 19. It has changed the world on so many fronts. Even I had thoughts of living on a cruise ship for months on end lol. To travel the world and be pampered for life! Lol I surely haven’t thought of that Wild idea lately. Let us who found disagreements through all this get back to being kind again to all and enjoy our last years on this great earth that God created. Hopefully C 19 will be behind us soon and normalcies prevail.

Originally Posted by BryanTheGolfPro (Post 1836971)

Follow the money. If someone dies with heart disease, diabetes, stroke, etc. and they also have the China Virus, hospitals report the cause of death as the China Virus. Why? Because they get reimbursed more. Not so in other countries. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1837325)

Amazed that this thread is still up with all the partisan sniping. We have one group brow beating the other, insisting that only they are right. We have another group arguing that the first group is wrong and won't listen to "the facts". In the middle are a few voices of reason. Conclusion: This thread is going nowhere fast and at best appears to catharsis for some.

My take is very simple, do the right thing to protect yourself and your loved ones. Wear a mask, wash your hands, and stay out of crowds. You do not need to listen to ANY politician or the media, just use common sense assuming that still exists.

This too shall pass as so many pandemics have before. Be a role model for others in the meantime.

Originally Posted by Cranford61 (Post 1836981)

We, the 5%ers, also create 27% of worlds greenhouses gasses. Not a good world citizen. Connection?

Originally Posted by reg331 (Post 1836990)

Did they die FROM the virus or WITH the virus? Big difference!

Originally Posted by Nordhagen (Post 1837179)

Have read that the CDC said that only 6% of deaths are only due to the virus. The rest had underlying health issues that the virus, obviously, didn’t help. That’s 12,000 deaths directly tied to the virus.

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 1837346)

I read the same thing. :coolsmiley:

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 1837137)

Actually, according to one study the death rate is lower since the pandemic than it was from 2014 through 2018. I got this info from Macrotrends so I can not attest to the veracity of the information.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1837354)

We have read them all. I choose to hope that the dying will stop soon. We have had some hopeful information in the last few days;

Phase 3 clinical trial of investigational vaccine for COVID-19 begins | National Institutes of Health (NIH)

Originally Posted by loribellitt (Post 1837128)

The Civil Discourse Club in The V recently hosted a Zoom meeting w/a former CDC employee giving an update on Covid. It's a great club to join to receive pertinent info on many subjects. Pertinent to Covid were some valid points:
*Due to a lack of clear messaging, 2 countries suffer: US & Spain (Spain recently handed virus control to 'regional' govts to their peril)
*In Korea now, easy tests are similar to a pregnancy test (available at Dollar General)
*Across the world, there are over 200 possible vacs in development.
*60-70% of population needs to be vaccinated or recovered for herd immunity. As of now, only 2% have been exposed.
*Virus not changing as quickly as normal flu virus. In S. Africa where they are currently going through regular 'flu' season, it's not nearly as severe, thanks mostly to masking already taking place for Covid.
*Estimates vacs availability April 2021 earliest.
*Convalescent plasma has NOT been effective.
*Regarding govt. payments to hospitals for Covid diagnoses: They do NOT receive payment if patient admitted w/pre-existing condition.
*Initial messaging from the CDC was diluted dramatically.
*One metric used to determine Covid deaths is average of TOTAL deaths (car accidents, suicide, cancer, heart attack, etc) in same time frame year-to-year. It doesn't change much EXCEPT for this year where, sometime ago, deaths were up over 200,000. This points to Covid deaths actually being underreported.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1837281)

OK, so what would you have done differently? Ignore Fauci and Birx??? Create a panic with gloom and doom talk??? Use psychic ability to know the facts about the virus before they were discovered? Even Monday morning quarterbacking is difficult with this one.

There are many reasons for the US to have a higher percentage of deaths---mobile population, genetically diverse, frontier mentality, distrust of authority---pick one or more.

Originally Posted by Masterchin (Post 1837215)

96 percent would still be alive had they not had COVID-19. I too have four Doctors I’m close with and all have confirmed that hospitals DONT get paid more for a positive COVID death. Really amazing people believe politicians over science. The latest one I heard was mask don’t work. That’s why Doctors and nurses wear them every day. Twenty six years USAF and I thought During times of crisis we’re supposed to join together and generally care about fellow Americans. We pick politics over family, over country, over neighbors. We’re okay with lies and dishonest politicians as long as it serves our purpose. We should demand better from our leaders and if we don’t get it we vote them out. Leaders are supposed to unite us not divide us. Divided we will fall!

Originally Posted by joelfmi (Post 1837473)

Because of his actions of sending POSITIVE hospital covid sick people into assisted living facilities to assisted nursing homes when He did not make sure they had PPE and their staff was not quitting. As you know He did not use the facilities that the president gave him which would of save her life and 10,000 other seniors. This not political put is a fact which has to be told.

Originally Posted by BryanTheGolfPro (Post 1836971)

Follow the money. If someone dies with heart disease, diabetes, stroke, etc. and they also have the China Virus, hospitals report the cause of death as the China Virus. Why? Because they get reimbursed more. Not so in other countries. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

Originally Posted by Checkers1 (Post 1837019)

You are so right Brian, if every death reported as Covid19 that really wasn't Covid19 was deleted from the statistics it would probably be a number close to half of what has been reported. Shameful, misleading and greedy on the part of health care officials.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1837490)

Just had a thought.......Since this pandemic has gripped this nation.......Have the deaths from all other causes been tracked? Are there zero deaths from auto accidents, zero deaths from heart attacks, zero deaths from renal failure, zero deaths from strokes, etc, etc, etc. You get the idea.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1837490)

Just had a thought.......Since this pandemic has gripped this nation.......Have the deaths from all other causes been tracked? Are there zero deaths from auto accidents, zero deaths from heart attacks, zero deaths from renal failure, zero deaths from strokes, etc, etc, etc. You get the idea.

Originally Posted by Malsua (Post 1837506)

Excess deaths are tracked.

Here is wwwDOTcdcDOTgov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths

There was quite a hump in the spring, a bit of a hump in July and now it's dropping down to nothing.

Every area has to go through their initial phase and then it's done in that area. It gets all the weak hosts and then it's done. This is not to say there aren't people it missed, but it seems to weed out the weakest and run out of hosts.

People talking about a spiking in cases but there are hundreds of thousands of tests taking place each day and the specificity and sensitivity of the PCR test is not that great.
Even with 1% false positive, that's 2000 false positives per day. If there are 2000 actual positives, that means that 50% of the "cases" aren't real.

Before you attack the number, you need to go look at the specificity and sensitivity of the PCR test yourself. Understand what it means. This is not to say the disease isn't real or that it's not bad. I know two folks who died due to catching it. It's just that if we had the same kind of testing in April as we have today, this recent increase in cases would be bouncing along the baseline rather than a spike.

Originally Posted by Malsua (Post 1837506)

Excess deaths are tracked.

Here is wwwDOTcdcDOTgov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths

There was quite a hump in the spring, a bit of a hump in July and now it's dropping down to nothing.

Every area has to go through their initial phase and then it's done in that area. It gets all the weak hosts and then it's done. This is not to say there aren't people it missed, but it seems to weed out the weakest and run out of hosts.

People talking about a spiking in cases but there are hundreds of thousands of tests taking place each day and the specificity and sensitivity of the PCR test is not that great.
Even with 1% false positive, that's 2000 false positives per day. If there are 2000 actual positives, that means that 50% of the "cases" aren't real.

Before you attack the number, you need to go look at the specificity and sensitivity of the PCR test yourself. Understand what it means. This is not to say the disease isn't real or that it's not bad. I know two folks who died due to catching it. It's just that if we had the same kind of testing in April as we have today, this recent increase in cases would be bouncing along the baseline rather than a spike.