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-   Current Events and News (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/current-events-news-541/)
-   -   Taliban (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/current-events-news-541/taliban-322951/)

John41 08-18-2021 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvbound (Post 1990701)
Afghanistan is not a 'country' in the way we think of one. It is actually a bunch of fiefdoms controlled by warlords and their armed followers. Of which, most of the money and weapons we have sent there have went into the pockets of those warlords. Our original intent to go there and stop Al-Qaeda and/or other international terrorist groups from having a safe haven under the Taliban, was a good one, but the failure was in thinking we could change centuries of their warring history. We need to stop trying to nation-build and recognize that at some point, enough is enough. Yes, it is a tragedy regarding what will happen to women and children under Taliban rule, but unless we continue to lose American troops for another 20 years and a few more trillion dollars (which still won't change anything and the money will still pour into the warlords pockets) - it is time to leave. Our biggest mistake was in not starting earlier in getting those who have helped us out of the country first, for their own protection. Our other mistake was not having good enough intelligence to realize how fast and easily the Taliban would fill the void, without the threat of Americans backing the joke of the previous 'government.'

History (British/Russians/Etc.) shows that a country's citizens are willing to fight to the end, against those who have 'invaded' their country. If the USA were invaded - we would be doing the same exact thing.
A long held theory was that if we engage with a non democracy like China or Afghanistan they will gradually become a democracy. We overestimated the degree to which technology could replace dedicated boots on the ground. Remember the academic Whizz Kids war planners in Vietnam. The experts were reluctant to give up their theories. How wrong they were. Our soldiers paid the price.

barbnick 08-18-2021 09:30 AM
Not an acceptable thread
 
We get enough bad news from the media. Why is it necessary to post any of it? We all know what is happening.
I want more discussion about our local situations please

Jacob85 08-18-2021 09:32 AM
I knew it would take long for people to start complaining about something

Lindsyburnsy 08-18-2021 09:32 AM
Actually women’s groups are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 1990455)
We never had a chance to replace their govt along term. Strange that feminists are not jumping up and down over what is going to happen to females over there.

Lindsyburnsy 08-18-2021 09:36 AM
Sounds like the outgoing Afghan leader absconded with lots of cash that we taxpayers sent there to be used for the people. So at least one person is doing well. QUOTE=Toymeister;1990608]I was in Afghanistan 16 months ago. Since 2010 I have spent 2 1/2 years there I never found it to be beautiful or even remotely charming.

When we entered in 2001 our mission was to prevent Afghanistan from being a launching point for terrorists. Had we kept that in mind there would be no loss of focus or as much of a financial waste.

This may sound brutal but it is not worth the loss of one American life to ensure girls can go to school when their own families don't want that.

There is no history or desire for democracy there, there is no overwhelming commitment for national security or even a national sense of pride of any significant depth. We were chumps for believing it was even possible to extoll American beliefs there.

Afghanistan GNP is ONE TENTH of it's spending. There is no way the country can survive without international welfare.[/QUOTE]

ThirdOfFive 08-18-2021 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbird45 (Post 1990641)
The initial post is correct. Taliban mulls are flooding the West with heroin to shore up Afghan economy. Drugs will continue to hit our street no matter where they come from. We have spent endless amount and years trying to stop it with no avail. This like most things is a supply and demand issue. We have to discover a way to replace the demand. Either a drug, some sort of surgical implants or really go futuristic a VR headset, something to break the dependence on these types of drugs. Because after all this time and money we have to admit whatever we are doing is not working.
I agree that something must be done. However to attack this from the criminal angle has been fruitless. The "War on Drugs" was declared in 1972 and we've been losing ever since. If you've been losing a war for half a century the logical thing to do is to throw in the towel and accept defeat.

What to do? Decriminalize heroin. Decriminalize ALL drugs. Make them legal, freely available and cheap. And at the same time make treatment for drug addiction freely available and cheap (or free, if need be). Realistically, the only way you can get treatment for an addiction to an illegal drug is to admit to USING an illegal drug, which is tantamount to admitting to a crime--and a lot of addicts, even though they know they need treatment, will not get it because of this fact, or continue to get high just to hide from it.

Such a move would make any effort by the Taliban to flood a country will illegal drugs moot. AND it would end the criminal activity by the drug cartels from south of the border here, as well. Win win.

This idiotic war on drugs has cost the American taxpayer far more money, and American citizens far more in deaths, shattered families and ruined lives, then drugs themselves ever did. Or could.

Stu from NYC 08-18-2021 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 1990858)
I agree that something must be done. However to attack this from the criminal angle has been fruitless. The "War on Drugs" was declared in 1972 and we've been losing ever since. If you've been losing a war for half a century the logical thing to do is to throw in the towel and accept defeat.

What to do? Decriminalize heroin. Decriminalize ALL drugs. Make them legal, freely available and cheap. And at the same time make treatment for drug addiction freely available and cheap (or free, if need be). Realistically, the only way you can get treatment for an addiction to an illegal drug is to admit to USING an illegal drug, which is tantamount to admitting to a crime--and a lot of addicts, even though they know they need treatment, will not get it because of this fact, or continue to get high just to hide from it.

Such a move would make any effort by the Taliban to flood a country will illegal drugs moot. AND it would end the criminal activity by the drug cartels from south of the border here, as well. Win win.

This idiotic war on drugs has cost the American taxpayer far more money, and American citizens far more in deaths, shattered families and ruined lives, then drugs themselves ever did. Or could.
Sad but you are correct.

Worldseries27 08-18-2021 11:14 AM
Geopolitical chess
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by john41 (Post 1990816)
a long held theory was that if we engage with a non democracy like china or afghanistan they will gradually become a democracy. We overestimated the degree to which technology could replace dedicated boots on the ground. Remember the academic whizz kids war planners in vietnam. The experts were reluctant to give up their theories. How wrong they were. Our soldiers paid the price.
. A la the domino theory which caused the korean and vietnam wars so to the afghanistan conflicts were a means to a geopolitical victory over the ussr.
The elder combatants and leaders of the current taliban were the same teenage boys in the 1980's , who armed by the cia with lethal stinger missiles climbed to the mountaintops and cost the soviets billions of dollars monthly by shooting down their aircraft and troops supplies. This event is one of the preminent reasons the ussr collapsed financially hastening the implosion of the ussr.
The rest is details, not to us average citizens, but to our government leadership hence the term given to those killed and injured as " collateral damage". This geopolitical conflict is always ongoing eg middle east and the china sea.
This current afghanistan war was punishment for aiding and abetting the 9/11 attack. Mission accomplished and over.

jimjamuser 08-18-2021 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 1990455)
We never had a chance to replace their govt along term. Strange that feminists are not jumping up and down over what is going to happen to females over there.
I disagree with the contents of this post.

jimjamuser 08-18-2021 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 1990469)
Very true.
A US Army soldier was on patrol and in a relaxed moment, he talked to an Afghan soldier with his unit. They started talking about the stars. The US soldier came to realize that the Afghan soldier had zero concept about the solar system. The Afghan soldiers did not understand what any of the numbers on their paychecks meant. So, Afghanistan really was a series of tribes only a little removed from the dark ages. Reasonable goals would have been to wipe out the terrorist camps, find bin Laden, and LEAVE. You can't nation-build a country that is not ready to be a nation. The CIA gets a big budget every year - either they dropped the ball or US leaders refused to listen to them 17 years ago.

merrymini 08-18-2021 12:18 PM
The elements of batteries can be found in Afghanistan. You can bet your bottom dollar that china and russia will be making deals to get at it.

tvbound 08-18-2021 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe C
It's time to get some drones filled with Agent Orange or some other defoliant and hit the poppy fields.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandb875 (Post 1990784)
The poppy fields should have been destroyed before we left. Didn't do it then, do it now!
As good as it may sound on the surface, it's a really, really bad idea in reality. The last thing Afghanistan needs now, is to destroy their primary source of income, regardless of how one views on how it is derived. Talk about opening the floodgates to nefarious terrorist groups that have money, to move in and partner with the warlords, just remove the only way the average poor Afghani has to make a few bucks. Talk about utter chaos and the terrorist threats that would develop toward the rest of the world - that's the quickest way to do it. Which is exactly the reason even we didn't make a big push, to destroy all of the poppy fields.

Taltarzac725 08-18-2021 12:35 PM
Please Wait... | Cloudflare

Might be useful in this discussion.

SacDQ 08-18-2021 01:12 PM
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. Abraham Lincoln

jimjamuser 08-18-2021 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SacDQ (Post 1990958)
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. Abraham Lincoln
I agree with the contents of this post.


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