I totally disagree. Apparently, you've never spent your entire life with me (thank heavens for small favors).

The average male pro can drive a lot further than an average female. There is that upper body strength you overlook.

The average male who fits into the category of "people who can drive XXX yards" will be exactly equal to the average female who fits into the category of "people who can drive XXX yards."

There are female pro golfers who put some of those pro male golfers to shame. Being able to hit far doesn't mean being able to hit accurately.

Yep, you got it. That's exactly what I plan:blahblahblah::blahblahblah::blahblahblah:

This discussion is example of an apple picker describing the surgical technique to repair a brain aneurysm. Point being this isn’t worth discussing.

What a convoluted train of thought. Who would ever play a sport with this theory, it would take a year to sort everything out before the sport could begin.

@OrangeBlossomBaby, give it up, you've lost this one.

There's a saying, I think by W C Fields...............
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh-t."

Two unique cases does not prove your point...

Ability, in most sports most certainly does differ due to size and strength...

YOU were the one who insisted we separate people based on size ("like they do in boxing"), remember?

Oh, and 11 holes in one? Sheer luck. Any pro will tell you that. Yes, they can get it close to the pin, but putting it in the hole is luck... I've either hit the pin, or rolled it past by and inch countless times in my 50 years of playing golf. It's just never dropped in... yet...

That is absolute BS...

Michelle Wei tried to play on the men's tour... She was crushed...

Several others have played with men in exhibitions. Same result...

I'm not saying that women aren't good golfers. Some of them are great... Just like some men are great golfers...

But as a rule, they cannot compete with men due to physical limitations...

Anika Sorenstam tried it in 2003. Top female golfer in the world at the time. She missed the cut...

Annika Sorenstam plays at Colonial, 2003 - Golf Monthly

Is this the end of women's sports.

Is This the End of Women's Sports? - YouTube

She echos exactly what I've been saying all along...

Echoes seem to be your specialty.

Don't worry. Women will get this taken care of.

The answer is to get it done with common sense not cruelty.

Boomer (whose post-pandemic, newly embraced, silver hair and sassy new haircut seem to be making her even more of a smartazz than she used to be)

Two Bills,

I just want to thank you for adding to my vocabulary. I never heard of "wedding tackle" before -- but I know what it is when I see it.

A while back, I learned the phrase "popping your clogs" from you.

I love learning new phrases like this.

I watched Ted Lasso, a delightful tale, and learned some new expressions from it. One of them (what the fans kept calling him) I had to look up on Google. I have added that one to my vocabulary, too.

Sincerely thankful,
Boomer

Do tell...

https://media.tenor.com/images/b9aa2...1fee/tenor.gif

Seems the solution is clear:

Ban all professional sports. Amateurs only, no pay.

Problem solved.

And everyone gets a trophy
:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Nope. Like K. T. Oslin wrote in the lyrics of one of my favorite country songs — “I’m too purdy to waste my time. . .”

Boomer

Not so sure the 12,000 professional athletes or the 150,000 employed in the spectator sports industry in USA would agree with your proposal. Seems so much less radical to keep men's and women's sports separated.

Payments are not part of the problem...

The problem exists in HS and College sports, as well...

Did you bother to watch the video posted earlier? It was posted by a HS girl...

C'mon man! Logic and reason have no place in this discussion!

This could work if there were pre qualification rounds and say the top 100 male or female were in the Upper League and the next 100 male or female in the Junior League. I agree ability not gender or race should be the deciding factor. Unfortunately woke culture is about equal outcomes not ability. A book called The Bell Curve showed how nature distributes abilities and there is always some overlaps between groups. Let’s not arbitrarily confine the overlaps to a lesser place.

I don’t think athletic young women who are struggling to compete in sports which require intense training and sacrifice to earn recognition and perhaps, scholarships are very interested in this third person analogy. They are being cheated out of their just rewards and women need to stand up for them, not minimize the situation.

Huh? Why did you quote me? I think we are on the same side on this one.

What I said was that this is about fairness -- not hatefulness. I think it will be a thread-the-needle, but smart, talented, competitive young women who could have a lot to lose can get this twisting of their rights under control if they decide to do so.

(Title IX did not show up until 1972 to give young women equal opportunities in sports. There would have been quite a few talented women my age who could have gone to college on a sports scholarship but were born a little too early and missed their chances.)

I realize my declared social acceptance of transgender people horrifies some around here who like to gear up to gang up, but my opinion on this is separate from that.

Boomer

Kind of reminds me of the movie "The Ringer." Having a fraud take the glory from those in a group with a specific classification is much the same. A male with long hair competing with females is still a male competing with females, no mater what he looks like.
Change the classification of the sport? Why? Do you open a 100K race to those in a wheel chair, or do you set up a different classification race specific to only those in wheel chairs? Do you put dogs in a horse race? Do you put motorcycles in the Indy 500? Some folks just do not understand how to use common sense. There are female sports and there are male sports for a reason. If you wish to open similar sports to any gender or gender-less, then specify that. Quit arguing or competing over who is the most liberal and progressive thinker. You can be open minded and still use common sense. Common sense is NOT having transgender males compete in specifically female classified sports.

It's also happening in TV. There is a trans playing women's softball. Still has the male "junk" but is allowed to play as a woman. The rec dept allowed it.

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CONGRATULATIONS Phyllis Mickelson on your PGA win yesterday!!!
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With all do respect, this is exactly the problem. It appears to be dismissive and I emphasized in quotes your statement indicating that young women can wrestle with this urgent situation if they want and they will be sweet and kind while doing so.

ALL women should be standing up with these biological females to reverse this ridiculous decision that biological men can participate in women’s sports. This discussion isn’t about transgender acceptance, it’s about the shady overtaking of women’s athletics and rewards to which THEY are entitled. To me, the hairstyle remark at the end more or less stated this inequity isn’t all that important.

I don’t care who or how people mutilate their bodies, more power to them. But when a dismantling of a biological woman’s rights occurs, women ALL need to stand up and secure her rights.

Please show me where I wasn't talking about fairness or where I was being hateful.

Otherwise, why go after me?

Basically this. In the contest of equality vs. fear, fear seems to be winning the current race.

When it becomes a matter of "accept or reject, those are your only two options" you will see a very decisive dividing line over which many will refuse to cross.

Rather than come together and come up with solutions, they'd rather say "hell yeah" or "hell no."

Most of the ones screaming the loudest at the moment are the spectators, who don't ever buy tickets to games and don't pay the extra for the pay-per-view livestream of the event. They need to let the adults do the adulting, while they go play golf and relax and enjoy their retirement.

The sports world will work this out. Or they won't, and they'll lose viewers, patrons, athletes, when they're forced to take sides.

I personally don't care. I think sports pros should all get minimum wage. You don't need a college degree to hit a ball in a hole, afterall. It's not even customer service for crying out loud. Even in football - it's just a bunch of thugs bashing each other in the race to grab a ball that isn't even round and bring it to a line on the ground. And then when they retire because they spent the last 10 years having their brains bounced around inside their skulls, they discover they're not fit to do anything else for the rest of their lives.

If anyone should be staying home and collecting $300/week in PEUC benefits, it's professional ballplayers. Stay home and stop doing really stupid things to your body for money. Sheesh.

I was planning this morning to give up on this place. (I have thought that before.) But, now, I feel like I want to answer your post about my post.

I see now why my hair remark appeared to be flippant. But that was not directed at the women whose rights are under threat. I was “talking back” to one poster re. the the word ‘echoes’ — that’s because I keep trying to stand up to what I see as an echo chamber in so many threads. I tend to sometimes couch my backtalk in an attempt to lighten my touch — cheeky though I can be. (I almost took out the hair part. I wish I had.)

This is the second time in two days, I have tried to explain my wording — and more and more, I find myself wanting to take a more direct hit against the hateful posts I see. But, then, I think — why bother? Your post though is written with reason and in your own words, not some cut and paste or random linking. I respect that.

I was recently told that if I did not like the tone of TOTV I should leave — and that poster wished me a snide “good luck” with finding a forum that meets “my standards.” I resisted responding by saying, “So — are you saying I am out of your league?”

I know a transgender person and I wish I could ask them for their opinion on this matter of sports competition. But I do not know them well so I will not venture into such a discussion.

I will say though that if I or my daughter or granddaughter were competitive athletes, I could get into this fight. When I say it is a thread-the-needle issue, I hope what I mean is understood.

The name-calling and self-righteous judgment and pure hatred should never be a part of this fight. But that bandwagon is the easy — and tragically popular one — to jump on.

This fight is going to take finesse and attorneys and doctors who can advise and explain the glaring issue objectively — not subjectively.

Sometimes I wish I had gone to law school after I retired — instead of wasting so much time posting on TOTV. :) By now, I could be “Pro Bono Boomer.”

Anyway, I can see your advocacy and I appreciate that. I apologize about my silly hair remark. I should have been more direct in the point I was trying to make.

Boomer

Since I'm the one to whom you made the "echoes" comment, please tell me, to what "echo chamber" do I belong?

Please be direct and to the point, so I won't misconstrue your "flippant" response...

I'll wait, but I won't hold my breath...

Aces4,

I forgot to add in Post #191 — that one was my post responding to your post responding to my post responding to your post responding to my post. . .

Your use of the word ‘shady’ is the perfect word to describe what’s going on with this in-no-way fair competition invading women’s sports.

In this context ‘shady’ is not a word attacking people. It is a word perfectly describing this particular situation.

I may borrow that word if I am ever in a real-life conversation (or fight) re. this topic. I would argue what you are arguing and the word ‘shady’ says it all. Nothing hateful about it.

Thank you.

Boomer

I don’t know any transgenders, I have no fight with their choices. I believe this situation will take more than attorneys and doctors.

I believe it will require women standing up as a whole and demanding that sports competition rights be restored to biological women. Much like women’s suffrage and the sixties, it won’t happen unless there is a united, vocal front.

Does this person still have a ***** and testicles?

So, it's really not a transgender issue in so much as a 'fairness' issue?

That meaning, a woman transgendering to a male competing against men in athletics or sports is not an issue as they are not predisposed with a physical advantage.

Pretty much this. If the ability of 10 women cap out at 9, and the ability of 10 men cap out at 10, and the ability of a transgender male-to-female caps out at the same 10 that they did when they were male, then it would be an unfair advantage for those transgenders to be on the womens' teams.

I actually agree with that conclusion. I just disagree with the stigma and vitriol and fear of "other" I read here on this forum from people who pretend to be a) christians and b) residents of America's Friendliest Hometown.

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To "integrate/allow" Transgenders into Women sports - I believe that's the core question.

In my mind, this matter is simple. It comes down to FAIRNESS.

Is the decision FAIR to the Transgenders, or is it FAIR to the women?

I really do not see it any other way.

If the 'FAIR to Trans' integrates into girl/women sports - that group who supports primarily Trans will call it FAIR.

And If the 'FAIR to Women' does NOT allow the integration of Trans into their sports - THAT group supporting seperation will call THAT fair.

I'm not against "trans", but IMO there should be limitations. One of these must be NOT integrating into women sports. IMO that's FAIR.
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Not a fairness issue at all, it’s an equality issue. Female sports are for female competitors, not for men opting to act out as females. A transgender athelete, formerly Bruce Jenner, has stated he was against this type of competition. This straight from someone who knows the situation and the male gender capabilities.

If you want equality, admit transgender males to male sports and allow them their adopted persona.

Yes. The complete package is there and allowed to play women's softball in The Villages because the rec dept said that women's softball has to let him play.
Let that sink in. The slippery slope has hit home and The Villages is not going to do anything to stop it.