…and the percentage of people starting Social Security at age 62 has been declining (people waiting till a later age for a higher benefit). Here is some additional data of the percentage of people starting social security at various ages for 2022 and the average benefit. Big spikes at earliest age (62), typical full retirement age (66), and age 70 (highest benefit). I don’t fully understand taking the benefit after age 70 since the benefit doesn’t increase after age 70 (leaving money on the table).

Age Number (percentage of total) Average benefit
62 807,587 (27.3%) $1,287.61
63 222,908 (7.5%) $1,510.29
64 238,163 (8.0%) $1,625.03
65 388,996 (13.1%) $1,874.56
66 1,182,692 (24.7%) $2,039.86
67 122,918 (4.1%) $2,399.86
68 74,743 (2.5%) $2,594.74
69 66,638 (2.2%) $2,806.90
70-74 302,327 (10.2%) $3,065.48
75+ 6,317 (0.2%) $1,185.00

Well said.

The middle class is vanishing for sure. What makes you think it has anything to do with unions? It probably has a lot more to do with the elites.

Wrong again, as usual. Shipping companies have made billions recently. Unions made this country and always will. There are more to contracts than wages, medical benefits, overtime rates, work week/year/day. How about safety regs within the company? Keep trying but start stating background facts to support your weak theories.

"our Nation's daily way of life and our entire economy rely on IMPORTS." Few could afford their current lifestyle if they had to pay for the American worker to produce it, The dock workers have a monopoly on a bottle neck/ potential strangle hold on goods coming into the country, any move make their job more efficient will be fought over to maintain their power

People who are not in the working environment today, probably should not be commenting on the issues of todays HUMAN RESOURCE. Not the same game as the 60's-70's-80's.

Keep Wondering............that's why you are wrong.

:)

Yep, companies make millions and billions...................thank God.
Without profits, no wages, no employees, no companies.

Unions may have had an impact over 50 years ago, but with the current minimal percentage and decreasing numbers.......not much impact on the USA today.

Unions may have suggested some safety items for a very limited amount of employees.

Most Americans are NOT union and don't want to be union.

I enjoy "other views", but get out of the past...........old news.

These docks and dock workers are not even in the Top 50 in the world of major ports..........they are fighting automation and advancements to protect jobs.

Not a road to success.

:coolsmiley:

Let's put automation and wages aside, there is another service unions enforce.
You see there are a lot of good employers and there are also a lot of bad ones.
Union will put whatever protection they can for their member into the contracts.
That not always fool proof many employers will spend time and money to find workarounds to achieve their financial goal without any care about the workers.
These same companies are the ones if a worker drops dead on the floor, they will replace them before their body gets cold.
I know there are many that don't believe that to be true, but you can't believe what went into some of our contracts just to make sure they would survive the job.

I misspoke about 70% of people taking Social Security at 62. I was trying to say that 70% take it before full retirement age. And I was not looking at the most current data, which someone posted above.

As for how many people are retired and at what age, according to the Motley Fool:

The average retirement age for Americans is 61.
The average retirement age has increased by a few years since the early 1990s, when the average American retired at 57.

This article with is current as of April 2024 provides much more info on retirement age and why people left the workforce, including involuntary reasons. According to CBS, 70% of Americans are retiring before age 65. Planning on retiring at 65? Most Americans retire far earlier — and not by choice. - CBS News

I am also IBEW. I worked for Verizon for 31 years, not as long as you. Our union was very good. These port workers do not want automation. Our ports are a lot less proficient than many countries. If we did what these workers are doing, you would not be walking around with a phone not attached to a cord. We worked the problems out by having buy outs for retirement. Then they offered early retirement. We did it and they can also. They need to be modernized to keep up with the world.

Not even close to correct. According the the SSA, as of 2023, it was closer to 23%

And retirement at that age has been steadily dropping. As of 2023, it was around 23%...

Business react to economic conditions ,businesses have to compete with other business for customers and for employee the government makes fiscal and monetary policy a governmental agency controls interest rates, there by controlling the economy, without the lure/hope of profits/ ROI, no business, people put their money where it will give the best return, it isn't possible just to dial up a greater return, its a very complex balancing of resources for any business

Life expectancy rose as much as the retirement age did...

The point I am trying to make and provide some data to support is that MANY employees don’t make it to full Social Security Retirement age. 70% don’t make it to 65. Somewhere between 60-70% take Social Security benefits early. Many of these retirements are not voluntary. Corporations sever ties with a good number of employees before age 65.

Absolute nonsense...

A simple google search proves you're incorrect...
…
In 2022, the life expectancy in the United States was 77.5 years, an increase of 1.1 years from 2021. The life expectancy for males was 74.8 years and for females it was 80.2 years."

I'm pretty sure you're misinterpreting RedSox's post. When they say "won't make it to 65" they mean "won't choose to wait to retire until they turn 65, which is the full retirement age." Has nothing to do with dying, and everything to do with retiring from the work force and choosing to take their earned social security checks.

me too........when I see my union guys. our leaders, I thank them everytime.....arguing with people about unions is like the abortion issue, and politics......blah blah blah...I know they are jealous that they arent in a union......

Clearly your not a union worker…..

Agreed!
...As the world passes us by, is correct!!!
Education in America leaves students illiterate throughout their school years and especially by the time they reach college. Cannot compete in math or science.

Students find that they'll need Unions to protect them, just like they did for their ancestors, because their college degrees don't mean a thing.

That depends on what they plan on doing with their degree.

You should probably have a degree in medicine if you want to be a doctor.
If you want to be a lawyer, you need a law degree.
A degree in business administration isn't "necessary" but it sure is super-helpful if you want to run a large business. If you want to be HIRED by someone else to run THEIR business, a degree would probably be required.
I wouldn't trust any school teacher that didn't have a degree.
A degree isn't necessary to become an elected official. But the education from attending a university or other higher learning institute would help a candidate open up their mind to new ideas, and I consider that a consideration, even though it's not a requisite.

Please provide support.

Florida education attainment is: 90% for High School & 33% for Bachelor's Degree or higher.

USA Average is: 90% for High School & 35% Bachelor's Degree or higher.

Pretty much average.
"It's not difficult to understand"

[QUOTE=Boomer;2376082]There are companies where perhaps a union is/was not needed. Many years ago I asked someone who worked in the manufacturing part of a huge, well-known company if they had a union. The response was, “We don’t need one.”

Also, said company made a lot of regular people very comfortable through profit-sharing. Can you imagine if companies like Walmart, for example, would have made profit-sharing available to ALL employees. Not only would there have been a lot of loyal employees on those cash registers, etc., just think of the learning experience that would have come from owning stock.

But a lot of companies plan to earn huge profits on the backs of employees and never consider how effective company stock all-around can be in moving a company forward with loyal employees. For companies that do not have stock, there are other ways to keep loyal employees and keep unions at bay. The employers’ choice to exploit is what brings in unions.

I am not saying all unions are perfect. But if unions are stomped into non-existence by those who have motives that risk our future overall economy, we will turn into another country.

This thread is going to turn into union-bashing. I can feel those wagons circling already.

Of course, most of those circling up will be the same people who expect teachers to devote their lives to working for basically nothing.

My point is — the middle class has been the backbone of our economy. Unions were instrumental in creating a strong middle class. If we lose our middle class, we are done. Unrestrained greed is bad

While going to college I worked for the phone in Wisconsin during summers. Their union was Communication Workers of America. The union specified how long it should take to do various tasks. With that, when I got my morning work load I found I could complete it in half a day. Many afternoons I and other workers would take in a matinee or sit in a bar or run household chores. Upon leaving the company's garbage in the morning it was off to a diner first thing for an hour or so breakfast. This union apparently was against maximum productivity.

The father of my girl friend at the time also worked for the phone company and was a union steward. He got both I and my girl friend jobs there. I do thank him for that. It paid quite well.

I’m with you on this. They’re inflationary with bargaining for higher and higher wages and benefits and minimize producdtivity. They had their purpose at one time long long ago.

And I don't trust some teachers who have degrees, there are some real doozies out there. I find many colleges don't open minds but close them, critical thinking is sorely lacking. Employers are looking for bright and INDUSTRIOUS employees who appear to be lacking currently.

I personally think unions are a double edged sword. Have they protected the US worker, often. Have the union leaders been the biggest winners, I believe so. Have they created messy issues with the workers, absolutely.

It was so funny when a relative went to work in a large industrial manufacturing organization and was told by fellow employees to slow down when working, we don't work that fast here. But the union dues are collected every paycheck and they aren't cheap.:shocked:

I think there was a time and place for unions, that time is long past.

Does this union protect 'no show' and 'low show' jobs?

How did 50K dockworkers strike at US ports with only 25K jobs?

Sounds like mobsters or at least pay to play. I've worked both union and nonunion and I much prefer the nonunion.

These Unions are ripping off the American people big time. Their demands are outrageous and they are ok with holding goods hostage. Why don’t they as for a small percentage of profits to be distributed instead of crazy high salaries. That could be given on a quarterly bases.

Say hello to even higher inflation!

And during that time that you worked for the company and were very well paid for less than fully productive effort, did the company make money? Did the stockholders see some gains, and most importantly, were the workers able to have a single parent make enough to buy a house and send their kid to college and the worker got a pension?

Wasn't that a time when the middle class was thriving not dying? Much of the credit for the health of the middle class was because of unions.

So you're saying that it's okay that the employees were intentionally less productive as long as the company made money and the stockholders gained? Jeez, you have clearly never owned a business. If any of my employees intentionally slacked off, they'd be gone.

Villagers "affluent?
 

The median income in The Villages is around $73k. The Villages, FL | Data USA
Whereas the median income in The U.S in 2022 was 74k.
Income in the United States: 2022

I do not view that as Villagers being "affluent". I view that as average middle class.

More Bologna.
 

The economy all over the world is a mess, just because our is slightly better is no consultation and certainly not cause for a victory lap.

My point was...
 

What I tried to point out was this threat made highly visible to every American citizen our dependence on IMPORTS and highlighted a HUGE National Security vulnerability.
Yet, no one is talking about this very real threat to our daily lives and what we can do to reduce that threat.

Too much power in the hands of business or unions is no good for our economy.

Big unions have been the death of quite a few large businesses and put lots of people out of work.

He's wrong on that point, as well...

I posted the numbers published by the SSA...

Haters are going to hate. Unions protect jobs and improve the lives of everyday workers. I pity those middle-class and lower income, ham and eggers who "hate unions". I was a union member, when I was in high school and worked in a grocery store and the union worked for me.

Walmart -does- offer stock options to all employees...

which walmart employees are eligible for stock options - Google Search

Well, the group that declared independence was a "Confederation of States" - The Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union was the first written constitution of the United States. Written in 1777 and stemming from wartime urgency, its progress was slowed by fears of central authority and extensive land claims by states. It was not ratified until March 1, 1781.

Under these articles, the states remained sovereign and independent, with Congress serving as the last resort on appeal of disputes. Significantly, The Articles of Confederation named the new nation “The United States of America.”

The Constitution, adopted in 1787, used the words "in order to form a more perfect union, establish this constitution," which outlined the current 3 branches of government (not a union like the Iron Workers, it was describing improving the Confederation of States by implementing the three branch government we have today.(We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.) (Defence is spelled that way in the Constitution, old spelling)
Self Checkout? Cause by the increase in minimum wage to 15.00 in most states. Unions backed this increase because the starting rate in most union contracts is also tied to the minimum wage rates and include an automatic increase in pay if the minimum wage goes up.

Traditionally, unions have supported minimum wage initiatives because their contracts have been directly or indirectly tied to the minimum wage. For instance, UNITE contract that covered workers in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and South Jersey said the following: "Whenever the federal legal minimum wage is increased, minimum wage [in the agreement] shall be increased so that each will be at least fifteen (15%) percent higher than such legal minimum wage.”

Contracts for Cal Fire Local 2881, which represents 6,000 California firefighters, and UFCW Local 1099’s agreement with CVS have had similar stipulations. Other contracts, such as those signed by Retail, Wholesale, & Chain Store Food Employees Union Local 338 and UFCW 1262, also stipulated that minimum wage increases trigger an automatic return to the bargaining table, where new -- usually higher -- compensation is negotiated. The Center for Union Facts estimates that unions may have spent over $70 million on the Fight for $15 since 2012. Why Do Unions Fund The Fight For $15 Minimum Wage? Because They Gain A Financial Windfall In Return

When technology/automation becomes cheaper than human labor, companies shift to automation. Ironically, one of the key issues in the longshoreman's contract dispute is the shift to automation. That was not a concern when they were promoting the change in minimum wage. This is proven by corporations like Walmart returning to human labor when self checkout theft exceeds human labor costs (they are removing self checkout from Walmart stores with theft issues now. Notice that grocery stores have self checkout at stores without theft issues but not in areas where theft is an issue. You can see this demonstrated in the area around the villages...)

And you are certain I never owned a business. And like so many certainties posted here, yours is wrong. I very much was a principle owner of a very successful business with well paid employees who had health insurance, disability insurance, 401 K with a match, 4 weeks vacation after 10 years, paid time off for illness or any personal needs which increased with increased years. And if I'd paid them less and fewer benefits which was common in my town and my industry I'd have made more myself.
But I had so many long term employees who appreciated their benefits and that I was not a slave driver.

So you're wrong.

And just like that they made more funny money for all.