Agree
Maybe not on all the courses but definitely the ‘problem’ ones

That in itself is EXTREMELY HUMOROUS because the very calling of another TOTV member a "moron" is against the rules and intent of TOTV. I doesn't bother me except that it lowers all the dialogue to the level of the 7th grade level of debate. Debate is ALWAYS good and I welcome it when my IDEAS are challenged. NOBODY welcomes a situation when they are challenged at a personal level for ZERO redeeming value !!!!!!

Golf seems to have a DECLINING population due to the demographics of AGING baby boomers. Younger people prefer to find their own sports or amusements, which explains the RAPID rise of Pickle's ball. Probably many Pickle players are former golfers that got tired of the BORING NON-STIMULATION of the time spent going from drive to fairway shot. The Pickled crowd has CONTINUOUS action and an EASY game to learn. Also, the courts are FREE, as in costing nothing - less time cost and less money costs.
.......It is also pretty humorous to me that "mother nature" (due to warmer air holding more moisture) has decided to make the FLORIDA golf greens more DIFFICULT to maintain.
.......Personally, I think that par 3 courses better match the mentality today of young retired people, which is quick rewards for time spent. It also matches the mentality of TV Landers that have busy lives and want to get to water volleyball after a par 3 and not the time occupied by a "PAR ZILLION".
..........Also, the Florida summer HEAT means playing golf mostly in the morning. But, with indoor computer golf, players could sharpen their skills indoors -- and maybe combined with a brief putting time in the HEAT outdoors. Just thinking out loud.

Maybe we should just have a varsity level ToTV....for the ones that post accurate and well thought out...and supported through facts type forum......and a JV level log in for those that just want to see their name in lights and see how much of their nonsense and jibberish sticks to the fellow uninformed and gullible membership. Just a thought

Within 10-15 years, more golf will be played indoors, than outdoors. It's taking over the golf world. Those who can't see it, are mired in the past. Today's generation wants virtual stimulation, in a manufactured environment, with minimal exertion or effort.




I can't imagine why anyone would ever challenge your ideas or view of the world? I will concede, on the very rare occasion I've seen it occur on TOTV, you're always a gentleman about it.

Except it's not true...

"Despite predictions of golf's downfall due to the pandemic, the sport has actually managed to stay on course. Literally, on course. In early January 2023, the National Golf Foundation (NGF) revealed that the number of on-course golfers was up again by 500.000 players, bringing the total to 25.6 million."

Championship Level & Executive course levels?

Grass bunkers would be just fine. Ever try to chip out of one? Not easy. Unfortunately, The Villages seems to have trouble growing grass these days.

It seems like the idea here is that the "Varsity level" section of the forum would reward the ideas expressed by a majority of the members of the forum. Then the LESS typical and more unique ideas would be expressed in the "JV" forum level. To site an example that admittedly is STRETCHED to prove a point.......imagine Christopher Columbus being in the "JV" section and screaming, NO, NO the world is NOT flat like you "Varsity level" people want it to be.
.....America would have been discovered 100 years after Columbus died and the Native Americans had grown so strong by then that they were able to resist the European invasion. They would then control the history of North America.

Maintained.....and less maintained
Perfect analogy

Yeah....just like that
Someone’s been hanging out with Kyrie Irving a little too much! Smh

"The Villages seems to have trouble growing grass these days" takes us back to post #51, which goes a long way to explaining the 'WHY" behind the grass growing difficulty.

Interesting, not sure about what Mr. Irving's off court views are.....I know his team is still alive in the playoffs. I know that for a short guy (by NBA standards) he seems to function well under the basket when even in a crowd. I will have to Google him as to his off court persona.

Probably not, as the Native Americans' first exposure to gun powder, was likely a result of Columbus' visit to the "new world".

Well I can answer that with some very interesting Historical facts. The Native American warrior was NOT at a real DISADVANTAGE from being without gunpowder. A skillful plains warrior with a bow and arrow could shoot over 5 arrows quicker than an Army infantry man could reload his SINGLE-SHOT rifle military Springfield rifle. The Native American tactics were to spring out of an ambush position and ride around encircling the standing stationary infantry troops. In that scenario the Native Americans had all the advantages. The US Army officers were the only ones with rapid firing repeater pistols which were no more accurate than their oppositions bows and arrows. People think a bow and arrow is slow to operate, but NOT so in the hands of the plains Natives. The BOW reloaded way faster than the single-shot army rifle. A Native American on their well-trained horses (ponys) were hard moving targets to hit by the stationary US solders single-shot rifles. They had the tactics and they knew the area. The US Army had many disadvantages.
........The population of the Native Americans suffered because of diseases from Europe that they had NO built up immunity against.

Did the USGA hide the above information in their report!

Maybe when the next USGA report on executive courses is released....we can end on the Louisiana Purchase!

The thread is about issues effecting golf course conditions. Please start a new thread about Native American Warriors, if that’s what you want to discuss, so the people that are interested in the topic of this thread won’t have to waste their time.

One thing I've wondered...why not turn a few of the Executive courses, particularly the ones with longer holes, into links courses? Less upkeep on those for the simple matter that a lot less ground needs to be mowed and watered. I've played a links course back in Minnesota ("Hidden Creek": my opinion is that they didn't hide the creek anywhere near well enough) and to call it challenging is a huge understatement. My guess is that there are folks here in TV who would enjoy the challenge.

Love the links!
I play a similar course up in Maine....The Links at Outlook in Berwick. Outstanding layout and I agree...a lot easier to maintain

How do you build a "Links" golf course, without an ocean?

I've seen a few courses that have tried to replicate the playing conditions of a links course, notable Streamsong, but trust me ... they're nothing like playing Royal County Down or Ballybunion.

BTW, did anyone happen to attend the PWAC Meeting this morning at Seabreeze, that was mostly about the Executive Golf Courses?

There were about 50 people in the audience, along with a representative from each District. It was like student sit-in in Jr. High School, protesting that the new peanut butter in the lunch sandwiches, is chunky style and not smooth. Almost 2 hours of golf talk, without a substantive or knowledgable suggestion or comment ... PWAC reps included. The PWAC reps (in most cases) were woefully unprepared to discuss golf or the District's proposed budget.

At least the majority of District staff comes prepared and listens .... I'm not sure how they find the patience.


The Villages never ceases to amaze me.

Just read a book about the Comanche Indians, the most feared of all the plains Indians, they were able to get off 15 arrows before an infantry man could reload and shoot again. They were the best horsemen and warriors of all the American Indian tribes. Their culture was war and conquest. They stole horses and what ever else they wanted. These indians fought to the death which surprised the American soldiers. The reason was that the Comanche killed all the males and infants and most of the women and children of the tribes they attacked. Any other Indian tribe who fought the Comanche knew this and they fought to the death also if they became trapped or were running interference for their women and children as they were trying to escape. The Comanches held the upper hand until the Texas Rangers came along and they got better firearms and fought like the Indians and things evened up. After the slaughter of the buffalo herds the Indians lost hope and their best source of goods and materials. The army knew this and encouraged the complete decimation of the once magnificent buffalo herds.

The Links in Maine is miles from the ocean. Didn't think that was a prerequisite...especially for a 55+ retirement community?

The latter half of your post reminds me of a congressional hearing! Woefully unprepared and the staff holding up poster boards and whispering in their ears like a ventriloquist!

True story. I'm in a meeting at the Pentagon, sitting across from Ted Kennedy (about closing Ft. Devens). I listened to him talk for 10 minutes and said to myself, "he's the smartest person I ever met". Unfortunately, his aide had only prepared him with cue cards for 10 minutes & 12 seconds. By 10 minutes & 30 seconds, I figured he'd need help to spell "dog".

So much material there... but never speak ill of the dead. Or something like that!

Well, Southern Oaks comes to mind. Take a wide open piece of land with very few trees and stick a bunch of flags in the ground. Substitute a Turnpike and some power lines for the ocean and you got something resembling a links course, where the wind is a significant factor effecting play. It certainly doesn’t have the eye appeal of a true links course (or the pot bunkers), but kind of plays like one.

In addition to an ocean, I think Southern Oaks is missing most of the other attributes of a true Links Course.

"Links" courses usually rely on "mounds", hills and changes of elevation (dunes) and quirky, difficult greens.

Maybe some similarity to a "heathland" course?

If you would like to play a real "Links Style" course, that doesn't involve an ocean, I think Streamsong Red is the one. BTW, they just announced a Rate drop for FL residents, that I think begins on May 19th. $189 for non-guests, I believe.

5 Different Types of Golf Courses

Here are the 6 different types of golf courses, explained

What is Links Golf? (Links Golf Courses, Explained) • Honest Golfers

Sorry about my Indian post reply! I was so excited to talk about the recent book I read I forgot to look at what the real subject was. Maybe the Comanches played golf? Come to think about, don’t some of the golf courses around here resemble the plains of Oklahoma?

The comanches were too busy playing cowboys and Indians

What about Royal St. Cloud in ORL?

i never heard of it, but looked it up. Looks like they did a decent job.

I'm not huge fan of "manufactured golf courses". The Robert Trent Jones style. He moved everything around, to create what he wanted, as opposed to using what was there (Ferncroft & Ipswich, for example).

I do think they did a great job of "manufacturing" Streamsong, but the whole story of how that came about, lends some credence. It surely isn't a "Links Course" but Coore-Crenshaw did a spectacular job (as always) of creating a masterpiece when they did Red.. (I think the Blue course is awful, but the Black is kind of neat, although different and odd in some ways.)

This thing about "Links" courses when there's no ocean, is a bit like calling the courses in TV, "Championship" courses. I guess you can call 'em whatever you want, it doesn't make it so.

I prefer courses that look like they just naturally arrived, which is why I play Tierra Del Sol most of the time and if I go off campus, I don't go to Juliette Falls, but prefer some place like Black Diamond.

There's some course west of Worcester, MA, where they replicated a bunch of famous holes. I've never played it, but some folks like it. Golf courses are like women. Some guys like .....

... oh nevermind.

(Maybe big doings this week, regarding LIV/PGA. Jimmy Dunne resigned from PGA Policy Board this afternoon. @radaratlas2 says John Henry's plane landed in Teterboro earlier today and Yasir Al-Rumayyan is headed there now.)

I heard Rory will be in those meetings as well...

Resolution coming soon?
 

Then I'm so *confused*! Got the sense that Dunne wanted merger progress and wasn't seeing it with players being the majority on the board. But, Henry's not a player and this sounds like merger progress. No idea where Tiger stands other than being pretty sure that he's against whatever Phil and Greg want. :-) Hearing that Rory and Tiger are now seeing things differently. Saw a suggestion this morning that LIV will end up with the top 50 or so with all the other tours being "feeders" and can see some logic in that. Will Keselowski be at this meeting? :-)

Hmmmm, our northern home is in western Mass and I’ve been playing golf in that area for a very long time and never heard of that? Some courses in the area I do enjoy include the Ledges, the Ranch, Crump’in Fox, Chicopee, Southampton, Westover, Oak Ridge, Cold Springs, Tekoya, Bas Ridge, Agawam, St. Ann’s, and Wyckoff. Playing Eastern Mountain this afternoon with my wife, not one of my favorites, it’s too easy (referred to as easy mountain), but she likes it so it’s all good.

If you know someone who knows the name of the referenced course, please let me know and I’ll give it a try : )

Red Tail....Devens
Shining Rock...Northbridge

Thanks, look like nice tracks, but both are east of Worcester and too far off the beaten track for me. The farthest east I’ll travel for a round is to Cold Springs in Belchertown, which takes me quite a bit longer to get to by car than it does to get to Southern Oaks by golf cart in the Villages.

I think it's the "Ranch", but I'm not sure. I looked it up and that's the only one I can find close. Does that not have "replica" holes?

I used to play Crupin-Fox occasionally, when Bill Sandri owned it. He also owned Fox Hollow in Trinity (near Tampa), where I was a member, so CF was very inexpensive for me to play. Last few times I played CF, it wasn't in great condition. A couple of years ago, when they started harvesting trees.

One of the coolest golf courses in your area (& they used to have an awesome non-resident membership deal) is The Orchards, which is a Donald Ross design.

I'm sure you know, the old Hampden CC has been transformed into Great Horse and it's quite a place. I played it once back when it was Hampden, because my friend Phil Pittorino (owner of Wedgewood Pines) owned it. The guy who bought it, claims to have spent $50M transforming it and completely redid the entire property.

Red Tail is a decent track, but the conditions were sometimes spotty. Weird ownership deal up there. A Super they brough in was very sharp, but he left to take over at The International, about 3 months before IGC filed BK. Escalante has kept him on. The head Pro for many years, retired a few years ago and a fiend of mine took over as GM ... he's since left to take over PV.

Shining Rock is different, you'll certainly use all your clubs. Tim Gordon who did the deal to turn Saddle Hill into Hopkinton CC, also did the Shining Rock deal. If I told you who the money guys are, you'd know exactly who they are and you'd laugh.

Rory is too busy in court.

I’m sure you both remember Pleasant Valley CC in Sutton. Three decades of hosting the PGA Bank of Boston tournament. Arnie, Nicklaus and the LPGA had stops there as well. Sorry, just reminiscing!