Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2424073)

Ideally, the jeans would be made on a ROBOTIC assembly line.

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 2424079)

We do need more bureaucrats though. Intelligent compassionate and well organized ones.

Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 2423651)

Your upbeat message leaves me scratching my head... so often I hear now how this country CAN'T do anything anymore. Bullroar, all we need is some backbone and ambition.

No one takes into account the handouts that it takes to float the boat of all the jobless people here not to mention the crime involved with much of that joblessness. Take the whole picture into one's view and remember, no one is trying to eliminate everything, just balance it out. And as important as STEM is, it is not the end all answer to all employment problems. Not everyone wants to be a rocket scientist.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2423751)

I find it strange that in this thread, no one has even mentioned a need for more people in the medical field, and in health care in general. You want more Americans to be home health aids for seniors who aren't ready for nursing homes yet? Maybe - give more Americans more incentive to qualify as home health aids. Right now, most of them in Florida are immigrants, because they can't FIND Americans who want to do the work.

We have a nursing shortage in Florida. We also have a physician shortage. And an orthopedic surgery shortage. The people who can afford the education necessary to get degrees, don't seem to be interested in those degrees. So we have to seek these professionals from other places. A doctor from Pakistan will be just as qualified to diagnose your hernia as a doctor from Toledo Ohio. If Toledo doesn't want to come to the party, then you need to suck it up, and learn to love the guy from Pakistan. The first step is to stop this "mass deportation" stuff and denaturalizing and cancelling green cards stuff. If they're here LEGALLY and haven't broken any laws while here, then leave them the heck alone and let them continue contributing to society and paying their taxes (yes, immigrants pay taxes).

Don't forget also, medical professionals from other countries pay MUCH less for their medical education than we do here in the States. So they can afford to work for less, when they get here. They have lower payments to pay off any loans, and some of them earn their degrees for free, courtesy of their country of origin.

In Pakistan (using the same country as above for the example) a local student can easily pay less than $5,000 per year in tuition. They have to fund their own housing, living expenses, elective fees but if they live nearby at home, the additional cost is negligible.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2423751)

I find it strange that in this thread, no one has even mentioned a need for more people in the medical field, and in health care in general. You want more Americans to be home health aids for seniors who aren't ready for nursing homes yet? Maybe - give more Americans more incentive to qualify as home health aids. Right now, most of them in Florida are immigrants, because they can't FIND Americans who want to do the work.

We have a nursing shortage in Florida. We also have a physician shortage. And an orthopedic surgery shortage. The people who can afford the education necessary to get degrees, don't seem to be interested in those degrees. So we have to seek these professionals from other places. A doctor from Pakistan will be just as qualified to diagnose your hernia as a doctor from Toledo Ohio. If Toledo doesn't want to come to the party, then you need to suck it up, and learn to love the guy from Pakistan. The first step is to stop this "mass deportation" stuff and denaturalizing and cancelling green cards stuff. If they're here LEGALLY and haven't broken any laws while here, then leave them the heck alone and let them continue contributing to society and paying their taxes (yes, immigrants pay taxes).

Don't forget also, medical professionals from other countries pay MUCH less for their medical education than we do here in the States. So they can afford to work for less, when they get here. They have lower payments to pay off any loans, and some of them earn their degrees for free, courtesy of their country of origin.

In Pakistan (using the same country as above for the example) a local student can easily pay less than $5,000 per year in tuition. They have to fund their own housing, living expenses, elective fees but if they live nearby at home, the additional cost is negligible.

Originally Posted by Paper1 (Post 2423758)

Although I hope you are wrong about the war part I do agree with your thinking about national debt. I don’t believe it can mathematically be repaid, we can’t even balance the budget for one year. We as a people are addicted to our grandchildren’s credit card and the US money printing machine. We are not screwed but surely have set up future generations to take our long over due bitter medicine for us. Americans have been led to believe there is such a thing as “something for nothing”, it is now the great American dream.

Originally Posted by Sunnyme (Post 2423954)

Disagree completely, many foreign auto manufacturers have found a way to be competitive building cars and trucks in the USA. Subaru in Lafeyette IN, Toyota has 10 automotive plants in the USA, Honda in Marysville OH and there are more.
Other foreign manufacturers that do not have a US manufacturing presence but want to sell here need to also build here.

The USA manufacturers that have moved plants and jobs to Mexico and SE Asia need to be reeled in.

And for the folks that say manufacturing today in all done by robots,, someone needs to design that manufacturing system, someone needs to design and build the robots, someone needs to service and maintain the manufacturing system and the robots, someone needs to design and build the facility that holds the manufacturing system and the robots, someone needs so plan and organize the production of the manufacturing system someone need to schedule the shipping and logistics for the product that is produced, and on and on. These are all jobs that should be here in the USA. Manufacturing sites also increase the local tax base providing money for infrastructure and schools.
Be American-Buy American.

Originally Posted by Whatnext (Post 2423862)

Why should Thailand, or any other country be penalized for making goods for American companies?
Corporate America are the ones who took industry away from the American workers in pursuit of higher profits. Let them pick up the tab for the import tariffs.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2424091)

The Debt could EASILY be repaid merely by changing the tax brackets to make the top brackets pay more (their fair share). But, it may be too late. We may have lost our Democracy already.

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox (Post 2424061)

The effect of tariffs on tourism has largely been overlooked. 35 million foreigners visited the USA last year. Most of the World currently views the USA unfavorably so it will be interesting to see the drop in overseas tourist numbers. There are plenty of "friendly" countries to visit instead.

Originally Posted by Pugchief (Post 2424082)

How can you simultaneously be pro-union and pro-robot? They are diametrically opposed.

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 2424095)

Nonsense. The debt is $36T and the annual deficit is $2T. You can’t extract that much money from the higher tax brackets, which already pay the majority of taxes (which are about $5T per year). You have no concept of the numbers involved. BTW, we aren’t a democracy.

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 2424095)

Nonsense. The debt is $36T and the annual deficit is $2T. You can’t extract that much money from the higher tax brackets, which already pay the majority of taxes (which are about $5T per year). You have no concept of the numbers involved. BTW, we aren’t a democracy.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2424105)

You can make a tax system do ANYTHING that you want or choose. You could make the top tax bracket pay 80% of their income (with no deductibles) if a country wanted to. Then the debt would be paid down quickly. In the 50s the upper tax bracket was around 80%. Then it steadily decreased due to pressure on elected Federal officials. Today the tax system helps the top 10 and 1 %. It hurts the middle and lower classes. But, I guess that is a super SECRET that they don't teach in high schools anymore ( maybe purposefully to keep them ignorant.)

Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2423734)

Many jobs will be high paying. Ask the automakers in Michigan, the steelworkers in Ohio and Pennsylvania or various other high middle class workers.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2424091)

The Debt could EASILY be repaid merely by changing the tax brackets to make the top brackets pay more (their fair share). But, it may be too late. We may have lost our Democracy already.

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 2424095)

Nonsense. The debt is $36T and the annual deficit is $2T. You can’t extract that much money from the higher tax brackets, which already pay the majority of taxes (which are about $5T per year). You have no concept of the numbers involved. BTW, we aren’t a democracy.

Originally Posted by daniel200 (Post 2424112)

Autoworkers in Detroit pay.. ..
Most GM production workers make about $25 per hour. The TOP pay as negotiated in the last contract is about $40 per hour (for hourly supervisors and hourly people with special skills). $25 per hour (~$50,000 per year) is not what I would call “high middle class”.

Then there are hundreds of automotive USA tier 2 suppliers. Production workers in these facilities currently earn $16 or $17 per hour.

Originally Posted by FloridaGuy66 (Post 2424139)

This is completely accurate and I'm shocked that so many people seem to think these are the desirable jobs that we need more of here.

Most people doing these types of jobs for 20+ years have their bodies so beaten down from repetitive tasks that there's no golf or pickleball options in their retirement, even if they could somehow afford it. Their "retirement" is basically sitting in front of a TV for the reminder of their lives.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2424100)

Pay and quality of life suffer where there are no UNIONS.

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2424147)

If they could afford it, I'll bet they would surprise you.

Originally Posted by AMB444 (Post 2424154)

"China owns cheap manufacturing now "

Yes, of course. But for how long. We think of the Chinese as dirt poor and having no access to internet and other worldly news.

How long before they, as well as us, decide enough is enough.

Originally Posted by salpal (Post 2423543)

agree....can you imagine Americans sewing blue jeans in a factory for very small wages? We want to encourage young people to STEM careers. People forget...the robots are coming. Do we want the USA to go back to the 1800's with factories? No, we want to be supreme in technology and all STEM areas.

Originally Posted by PilotAlan (Post 2424232)

How quickly everyone forgets the pandemic. When we discovered that our medications, PPE, repair parts for almost everything, and thousands of other critical items were made overseas.
We have an expansionist China threatening war, and we're dependent on them for the steel to make our ships and tanks. The computer parts of our fighter jets (and for our internet, and phones, and everything else).

We have made ourselves dependent on our enemies for almost everything that is critical to maintaining our defense, our industry, our health, our communications, and almost everything else.
This isn't about blue jeans and tchotchkies. This is about losing the ability to make almost anything in this country. That's not a good prescription for our economy, our defense, or our future.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2424091)

The Debt could EASILY be repaid merely by changing the tax brackets to make the top brackets pay more (their fair share). But, it may be too late. We may have lost our Democracy already.

Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2423963)

We have many shuttered facilities for auto manufacturing that could be reopened within weeks too. I say bring those incomes back from Canada and Mexico. Let’s pay Americans to do those jobs first.

Steel plants could fire up production within the month.
US Steel will cut jobs, close plants, move HQ from Pittsburgh if Nippon sale fails, CEO warns

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2424247)

So we're driving into a brick wall, and the solution is to destroy the car, and then rebuild it - leaving everyone with no transportation until a new one is made.

That - is a pretty stupid idea.

Here's a different idea:

Build a new car, and stop driving it into brick walls.

We're driving our country toward a recession because we want to not use Chinese products.

Okay so...
Instead of making everyone in America suffer by increasing the costs of those products (which is what happens when you impose tariffs)...

start making those products in America FIRST. THEN ease off on the imports.

Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2424196)

That was the mindset of 10-15 years ago. We don’t live in 2010 anymore. They are much more westernized than many think. More than half of the Chinese population is obese and many don’t work.

They have a 1 trillion dollar trade surplus that has been stealing from the American GDP for some time. We aren’t the only country the feels this way either,. The EU, Australia and others all are being bullied by China.

China has access to a lot of technology thanks to our colleges supporting Chinese students for at least 5 years. Something needs to be done. We might suffer discomfort a year or so in a full out trade war, but it’s China who would be crawling back on their knees about this time next year.

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 2424121)

The national debt is a huge problem but needs to be approached from every angle. Roads, bridges, the military, public universities, rail lines, etc. are also part of the problem. These are needed though. Stupid expenditures is not a solution. We need a smart approach to spending money. And one that considers future generations and their needs, problems, etc. Get everyone aboard with finding a practical solution.

Originally Posted by PilotAlan (Post 2424232)

How quickly everyone forgets the pandemic. When we discovered that our medications, PPE, repair parts for almost everything, and thousands of other critical items were made overseas.
We have an expansionist China threatening war, and we're dependent on them for the steel to make our ships and tanks. The computer parts of our fighter jets (and for our internet, and phones, and everything else).

We have made ourselves dependent on our enemies for almost everything that is critical to maintaining our defense, our industry, our health, our communications, and almost everything else.
This isn't about blue jeans and tchotchkies. This is about losing the ability to make almost anything in this country. That's not a good prescription for our economy, our defense, or our future.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2424305)

The national debt over recent years is because MONEY OUT (from all expenses) exceeds the MONEY IN (from taxes). That is a simplification. The problem is that since about 1990 the tax brackets have favored the top 10% not the middle class. ANY country without a STRONG middle class is going to end up in a DICTATORSHIP. The tax bracket manipulation since 1990 should concern every AMERICAN, but most are unaware.

Originally Posted by justjim (Post 2424240)

Interesting Thread. What are you going to do with the millions of Americans on “public aid”’of various types? I read recently that 40% of Americans cannot come up with $400.00 in cash. That would be 140 million plus folks. And we are the most prosperous and greatest country on the planet! The divide between the rich and poor is a GREAT divide and our “leaders” won’t “touch it with a 10 foot pole”. Fore.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2424247)

So we're driving into a brick wall, and the solution is to destroy the car, and then rebuild it - leaving everyone with no transportation until a new one is made.

That - is a pretty stupid idea.

Here's a different idea:

Build a new car, and stop driving it into brick walls.

We're driving our country toward a recession because we want to not use Chinese products.

Okay so...
Instead of making everyone in America suffer by increasing the costs of those products (which is what happens when you impose tariffs)...

start making those products in America FIRST. THEN ease off on the imports.

Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2424309)

Everyone needs to pay taxes, not just the rich. If everyone had skin in the game there would be a lot less debt and a lot more reasons to work at ambition.

I’m looking forward to American advances in manufacturing though. Not only will companies have a lot less shipping time on needed parts (6 weeks when shipped from China), but the country will feel a whole lot more unified.