That's obviously not ideal, but why would a parent let their minor child work like that? Think about that.

Not always. Many get paid 'under the table'.

And yet every time a factory has a bunch of openings bc the illegals leave, there are always seem to be people who want those jobs.

Yes, it would. Come legally and work. Come illegally and get deported.

I can't speak for others, but I like immigrants, as long as they come legally and support themselves instead of expecting handouts. My parents were immigrants who came legally, and never took a dime of welfare. I can respect that. Can you?

I agree especially with # 3.

Other people's earnings don't belong to you. It is immoral to even think that you own other people.
Working crappy jobs motivates people to acquire higher marketable skills. You don't get to steal from those who do.
Almost all illegals live off the taxpayers...If you earn your living then I don't really care if you're here illegally.

Maybe the family needs money. A lot of Florida is poor with crappy schools; probably not The Villages Charter School area though.

For me, it is NOT a HATRED of individual ILLEGAL aliens. I just see the road traffic and the bridges falling apart and I don't want anymore population in the US. The school classes are overcrowded as it is. The ILLEGALS take jobs away from citizens that have been born here and have ZERO patriotic allegiance to the US. I don't HATE the ILLEGALS. I hate the US systems that allowed them to enter the US in the first place. We don't know anything about their CRIMINAL RECORDS and we don't know if they are bringing any diseases into the US and if they have ANY shot records. We have a measles outbreak in Texas which may have come from illegal aliens. Plus, obviously, US citizens NOT getting shots, which is a whole other kind of mess.

I care if someone is here illegally.

Thanks for sharing your perspective. You’ve brought up some points that are definitely worth exploring. Let me respond to each:

1. Teen Jobs and Responsibility: It’s true that part-time jobs can instill responsibility, time management, and work ethic in teens—many studies support this. However, making jobs mandatory could introduce complications, especially for students involved in demanding academic programs, caregiving roles at home, or extracurriculars that are essential for scholarships or college prep. A better approach might be expanding access to optional youth employment programs that offer both flexibility and mentorship.

2. Teen Wages and Market Forces: You're right that entry-level wages often reflect market demand and perceived skill levels. But it's important to recognize that the labor landscape has changed dramatically since 1975. When you earned $1.65/hour, the cost of living—especially for essentials like housing, healthcare, and education was significantly lower. Today, even "pocket money" jobs can be essential for some teens who contribute to family income. Advocating for fair compensation and basic worker protections doesn’t mean disregarding market dynamics it means ensuring dignity and opportunity for all workers, including teens. (BTW, didnt you say in you first point that they would be mandatory? Now your saying no one is forcing them to do the jobs. Do you know the definition for mandatory?)

3. Undocumented Workers and Tax Contributions: While it's true that undocumented immigration presents legal and policy challenges, it's also important to recognize that undocumented workers contribute significantly to the U.S. economy including through taxes. The Social Security Administration estimates they contribute $6–$13 billion annually into Social Security alone, despite being ineligible to collect those benefits. Many also pay federal and state income taxes using ITINs, and like everyone else, they pay sales tax on purchases and property tax (directly or indirectly through rent). Yet they cannot access many public benefits such as Social Security, Medicare, unemployment insurance, or federal relief programs. So while there are legitimate debates to be had around immigration enforcement, it's inaccurate to suggest undocumented individuals are simply a financial burden. They often pay into systems that they cannot benefit from. As an additional example, undocumented workers can file tax returns using an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), and some do receive refunds if they overpaid taxes. However, they cannot claim many major benefits like the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) or Social Security refunds, even if they paid into those systems. So while refunds are possible, they're generally limited compared to what citizens or legal residents can receive.

Wow. So you think that more people leads to infrastructure decay? Not that state governments do nothing to maintain them. You think that classroom size is due to more people. Not that we do not pay enough for more teachers to enter the profession. You think that a person is "illegal" because the committed a civil misdemeanor (Like speeding which is basically the norm in this state, or driving without a seat belt) makes someone to be treated the same as a felon? Also its interesting that you think that Americans are ready to do the jobs that are being done by immigrants. Here is a thought, they are NOT doing those jobs now. Ask farmers how many Americans are coming in to do them. And you think that a measles outbreak is caused by "illegal aliens", knowing that not getting vaccinated is what leads to the outbreak, while wholly excluding people that travel from ALL OVER THE WORLD, legally, on vacation. We literally had measles beaten in this country until people stopped taking the vaccines. Then they cry when they become infected or lose loved ones.

In what world do you think these people live off taxpayers? Do they get SS? Medical in this country is paid for, not free, so we know they are not getting that for free. Food? We are ALL paying more for that. Please, enlighten me, WITH evidence, what they get from taxpayers. And I would seriously check your source before you use it.

This. And as proof, Trump is now saying that those that work on farms and hotels (His industry) can stay. That is, in of itself an admission that he may realize he made a mistake.

I would expect the US to do exactly what NATO did during 9/11. If you don't know what NATO did to help and support us, then I suggest you learn. The basic premise of NATO, you attack one, you attack all. Its literally the ultimate deterrent. You attack one of us, you know the rest of us are coming for you. As an American you should at least know united we stand divided we .....

A good post. Good analysis.

Parents' first responsibility is to parent. That means making sure your child is in school and doing homework, etc.

OMG. We have agreed twice in one thread. There is hope for the world. :)

Seriously? Look at NYC and Chicago. Free hotel rooms. Free food. Free schools. Free health care. Free phones. All at the expense of the taxpayers. Good grief.

American citizens would and will do those jobs when they are PAID properly. And, obviously, from the FARMERS point of view, they are going to "say" that they can't get Americans to do those jobs. The FARMERS, which are really mega -corporate FARMERS, are lying. The could get TONS of US LEGAL workers if they paid they them enough. I am NOT talking from the farmers viewpoint, but from what is best for US society as a whole. State governments could (???) maintain existing roads and even add more lanes IF THEY WANTED TO.) They don't. State taxes would have to increase. Florida roads have ALWAYS been behind the rapid population growth.

Classroom size depends on several variables. One would be rapid population growth. Another would be having MORE teachers by paying them more. Another would be keeping the teachers SAFE in the classroom, which would be a whole topic unto itself. And I think that a person is "ILLEGAL" if they meet the definition of an illegal aliens.

It is amazing that we citizens of the USA are just too important, better said as lazy, to do any physical work. But so many live in gyms and spas for their workouts. We have a pretentious and plastic society now. You are probably right and we the people should just get ready for what the lack of ambition will wreak down the road shortly.

I think you understand the last paragraph just fine, IMHO.

They send their children to public schools. They use public roads and other facilities.They may NOT be vaccinated. They drive cars without a US drivers license. Basically they should NOT be here. Illegal means illegal. I can't breech the border in Canada and EXPECT that their police would handle me with kid gloves and thank me for breaking their law. Try sneaking into Canada and see how much they like it.

See I am NOT a Communist, never have been one. Grew up in a working class neighborhood. When to church. Liked public school. Played sports. Went to college. Joined the Military. Went back to college. Played more sports. Drove a Chevy and a Jeep. Just a small - town, all - American kind of guy.

I agree.

Pogo was a character in an old cartoon strip by Walt Kelly. What Pogo said was, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

I agree with Pogo. He very definitely was right.

Actually, the quote about the enemy being us, although often attributed to Pogo, actually goes back further than that, to somebody in the War of 1812. The quote was also used on an Earth Day poster in 1970. But I think it applies to America now, in a lot of ways

Boomer

PS: While we are on the subject of who said what, I am finding myself recently wondering who said,"The light at the end of the tunnel just might be a train."

Many border hospitals have closed their doors due to being overwhelmed by illegal immigrants using the Emergency Rooms and their primary care facilities (by law, they cannot be denied service), and Obstetric services despite having ZERO pre-natal care.

I saw the Maternity department shuttered at my Catholic Charities hospital in DC, once they illegal immigrant population found out they could show up (often from well over 100 miles away), 9 months pregnant and have a baby at no charge. The malpractice insurance rates crippled the Obstetricians giving care. The hospital then hired them, since SOMEONE had to handle the massive influx of deliveries.

After a few lawsuits, with massive settlements (due to the complete lack of pre-natal care), they simply gave up and closed the department...

I get the frustration; the situation in cities like NYC and Chicago is certainly complex, but some of these claims need clarification.

Yes, there have been cases where cities have provided temporary shelter (including hotel rooms) and basic necessities to migrants, especially during recent surges. But these are emergency measures, often coordinated with nonprofits or funded partially through state or federal aid, not blanket “free perks.”

Free schools? That’s been the law since the 1982 Plyler v. Doe Supreme Court ruling — all children, regardless of immigration status, have the right to public education.

Health care? Undocumented immigrants can’t access Medicare, Medicaid, or ACA plans in most cases. They can only get emergency treatment, which hospitals are legally required to provide.

Free phones? That’s a misunderstanding. Phones are sometimes issued to asylum seekers as part of a tracking system — not for personal use, but to ensure they attend court hearings.

Free food? Some food assistance comes from local charities or short-term programs, not long-term taxpayer-funded benefits like SNAP, which undocumented immigrants don’t qualify for.

Also worth noting: undocumented immigrants pay billions in taxes every year through sales tax, property tax (even when renting), and even payroll tax if they’re working under borrowed or fake SSNs. Yet they can’t claim most public benefits.

There’s room for debate on how best to manage immigration, but we need to be clear on the facts if we’re going to have an honest conversation.

Are you referring to the maternity units at Providence Hospital and United Medical Center (UMC) in Washington, D.C., in 2017?

Providence Hospital:

Closed its obstetrics unit in October 2017, delivering between 1,500 and 2,000 babies annually.

Accepted patients regardless of legal status or ability to pay, offering affordable rates and charity care packages.

The closure was part of a cost-saving measure by Ascension Health, the hospital's parent organization.

United Medical Center (UMC):

Ordered to shut down its obstetrics unit in August 2017 after a series of dangerous mistakes, including a patient death under questionable circumstances.

The closure left the District without an obstetrics ward east of the Anacostia River, affecting the city's poorest ward.

The hospital faced criticism for poor patient care and management issues.

These closures were primarily due to financial challenges, management decisions, and regulatory actions, rather than being directly attributed to undocumented immigrants. While hospitals like Providence did serve patients regardless of legal status, there is no evidence that supports the claim that undocumented immigrants were the primary cause of these closures.

And is that definition? As an aside, why are we (America) treating legal immigrants as if THEY are illegal?

For 50 years the USA has had a trade deficit. In that same time period our economy has increased 350%. The entire world trade is now vastly different then it was when steel and coal was king.

Emergency measures? LOL, they were put up in those hotels for months.

So what? It's still the taxpayers supporting it and is a huge burden on the teachers, the system and the other students,

See JMintzer's post.

False. Phones provided to all. If you have proof otherwise, please provide it.

Not sure about this one, also please provide data. I assume the city is paying for it unless I see otherwise. NYC and Chicago have spent billions. Money is going somewhere (besides just cronies' pockets).

Payroll: Not if they're being paid under the table. Property: They don't rent, they get free housing. Sales: Yes, you are correct on that one.

Not really, they are here ILLEGALLY, which is a crime. Come by legal channels and we can debate.

Last paragraph...."how best to manage immigration?" Actually, it is ILLEGAL immigration that I am opposed to. I see on TV huge line of ILLEGALS crossing our border into our country. Our country that I served in the military for. Those people have NOT served the US - our country. They are here to freeload on America's success. They bring diseases due to being un-vaccinated and we don't know their CRIMINAL RECORDS. There are unskilled men and women and they bring children that they expect America to educate. Basically, we don't either NEED or WANT them here. They just cause problems and then there is the add-on problem that some of them cause crime - over and above their INITIAL crime of transgressing our borders.

I agree with the last sentence. That definitely is a problem. Another problem is that every 4 or 8 years there may be a large change in emphasis on legal and ILLEGAL immigration. The US can't seem to make up its mind. personally I think that a country should do an A.I. analysis to determine what its OPTIMAL population should be and then determine what its LEGAL immigration should be, IF ANY.

Except I was on the Credentials Committee and I was privy to all medical malpractice claims. I was also friends with several of the OB-GYNs who were initially in Private Practice, then became Hospital Employees and who finally left due to the problems they were facing.

Just because YOU couldn't find evidence of the hospital being overwhelmed doesn't mean it didn't happen...

How to handle immigration? Provide sponsored work visas with a path to citizenship. Simple as that.
Allowing floods of people in and giving them $2K / month auto-filling debt cards at taxpayer expense is criminal.

Deliberate policy of offshoring manufacturing over the last 45 years was designed to make the people of the world more prosperous and peaceful. Removing tariff barriers against the USA is now needed to re-balance production/consumption globally for an even more prosperous and peaceful world. Mercantilism (National Industrial Policy (aka, Fascism) of a high-tariff export economy) needs to end. Problems of immigration/emigration will end as the entire world becomes wealthier. The world is close to 1000 trillion USD in total global wealth now! ...And growing rapidly!.

I will likely come around to your other comments. But why are we going after those that are here legally? The did everything legally, went through the process was granted legal status and now, we send them out as if they are criminals. Explain.

So much to unload here. But ok, lets focus on the military aspect. There are people who imigrate to this country, and decide to serve in the military to gain citizenship, and when they finish serving, are still denied citizenship. Deported Veterans, Stranded Far from Home after Years of Military Service, Press Biden to Bring Them Back - Government Executive

"But in 2017 a Trump administration policy restricted access to the expedited citizenship promised to veterans after 9/11. And, in general, immigrant veterans get very little guidance about how to complete the naturalization process from their military branches once they have served."

The rest of your comments are literal talking points, with little or no evidence to support. You see huge lines on TV (See fox news) that suddenly disappear after an election cycle is over.

Diseases. Really? Aside from the fact that Mexico and America being neighbors would at least share somewhat similar rates of vaccination for childhood diseases. Its interesting to note your concern over these so called diseases but if everyone in America would be vaccinated there wouldn't be an issue here would there? (See Measles).

America's success has literally been built on the backs of immigrants (Of which you and I are one likely descendants of unless you are native American).

This is just some examples of where I see problems in your thought process. There are more, but I am thinking that facts do not matter in this conversation. Its all about your perceived grievances.

I thank you for your service. As a fellow veteran, all I will say is as our benefits get cut (Yes this is a real possibility at this point) will you still be worried about what immigrants are doing or what this administration (See Bone Spurs) is doing to us?

As to your last, summary sentence - I will be worried about BOTH- illegal immigration and an out of control government. I did NOT know that Military veterans did NOT get the citizenship that they were promised. Sincerely, that is too bad. Maybe immigrants before about 1970 (when US population was around 275 million people) were fine. We need an A.I. study of what is the IDEAL (not maximum) population that the US should be. And the work toward that IDEAL population. Note - I doubt that it is over 300 million people.

You should have been listening to the financial advisers of Village of Stu. They have called every single market turn except for the ones they missed.

Does this mean when I cannot sleep and get up in the middle of the night to read, I need to put more clothes on?

Blood. Bath. And Beyond……..
 

This has to be the most meandering thread I have ever seen. All I did was suggest a couple of calmly presented, podcast episodes that some people might find interesting, in light of these interesting times. YMMV

But:

Mere bumpkin though I may be, I do know that it is not smart to try to do surgery with a chainsaw.

Boomer

Who is "going after" those that are here legally? Unless you are referring to the mass asylum groups of the last 4 years. Legality of that is debatable.