Which one is that? Because it isn't the Model 3.

A half of a million owners disagree with you.

I can understand what is being posted about Elon Musk, but, I am more concerned about a larger MACRO aspect of this situation. Musk is just one of many that have graduated from making money to accumulating enough power to partially satisfy their appetite for POWER. This was not as big of a problem in the 1950s because of the higher levels of tax for wealthy individuals. Also, corporations were NOT considered a "person" then. And it was more difficult to transmit wealth from one generation to the following generation. Basically, the tax code was changed by wealthy Washington insiders (from 1950 to today) for the benefit of themselves and other wealthy individuals (the rich get richer).

Yes, there have been many Scientific and medical inventions since the 1950s that we enjoy today. And the "quality of life" for the TOTAL society has improved, but I would contend that the "quality of Life" for the US AVERAGE person has slipped backward moving to today. One does NOT have to believe me - because there are lists comparing nations at various years as to qualities like "quality of life". And if you check - the US was in the top 10 in 1950 and is now somewhere below 25th on these various qualities.

Elon Musk may be a problem, but he is just the tip of an iceberg of US problems!

So 40k to nearly 60k for long range performance is now affordable for a vehicle? Interesting.

Boy it certainly shines the light on luxury cars and means they are basically giving other cars away.

There are literally MILLIONS of iPhones sold every year, but I don't think anybody would call them affordable in comparison to what else exists.

Apparently, 1/2 million disagree with you. Again, you don't feel it is affordable, Okay, that is your opinion, my statement still stands. Prior to Tesla EV sold in the hundreds, or if lucky thousands. Now it is one of the fastest-selling cars around the world. I think Y's are sold out for this year. They are THE highest selling cars in several countries. So, again, all those buyers seem to disagree with you. That is all I said.

Yup, Apple is and always has been a premium phone and computer. Somehow they still manage to be in the running (top 1 or 2) highest valued companies in the world. And I think they sell more cell phones than any other single company. (That could have changed recently... I am not sure, but they are at least one of the highest selling). So, there are a few million people that think they are affordable.

You don't have to agree, it is fine to disagree. But, a lot of people agree with me.

I think people are confusing wants with affordable. Its okay to want a luxury car, I have two of them. If iPhone is Premium and not called affordable, its impossible to do the same with Tesla. Affordability has to have some sort of scale and if you are more expensive than nearly every comparable, its hard to swallow that label, whether people spend it or not.

And no, Apple doesnt sell the most cell phones. Samsung does...Why? Because of their affordable options. Their premium models pale in sales to that of the iPhone.

I don't like or dislike Musk, but his price manipulation in the segment is disgusting

I believe the definition of affordable is that there is something someone wants that they can pay for.


You opinion of affordable has no bearing on what I can or can't afford.

You are sort of correct, Samsung has led Apple by a few percentage points most quarters. 2020Q4 Apple led sales by Samsung by 5 points. Samsung has a larger percentage of active users. But, Samsung has 994 million and Apple has 900 million. I will take that as supporting my position that Apple iPhones ARE affordable. About a bill of them.

If you were correct, the I would expect Samsung to have a much larger lead in active users.

And finally, Tesla is in business to make money , I am not sure what you mean by market manipulation, but they have not been charged with any crimes. If you don't like their pricing policies, please don't buy one. That way I will get mine sooner.

Haha at sort of correct. You said Apple sells the most phones, and my response pointed out that was incorrect.

And I said nothing about Tesla and manipulation. I said Musk...
I have nothing negative to say about the brand, other than the idea that a 50k car is considered affordable is laughable by the current market pricing standards of vehicles.

But I get it, you are a last word guy...So on that note Cya.

Musk at the moment might be considered expensive for many, let's be honest they're not on the low end of the scale. What he is doing is bringing a new bench mark to the auto industry. Sooner or later you will see more affordable vehicles. If not by Tesla, Hyundai, VW, Ford or GM. There all jumping in and once they've load all the bells and whistles they can stick into a car, they'll start competing by lowering the price.

Z-z-z-z

Mmmm, maybe rhey aren’t driven that many miles.

Isn’t all electric cars cheaper than Tesla. Status, people with money want to show it. For those price is driving factor not function.

At our local supermarket electric car charging station today, was a Jag, a Merc and a first for me to see in UK, a Mustang.
All SUV's.
Not a Tesla in sight, although there are two owners in our village with them.
Electric is getting very popular, and with gas at about £6.45 ($4.75) a gallon, they are going to get even more popular.
340 miles on a full charge, is pretty well anywhere and back in UK!

Yet, most new car owners don’t keep car pass three years. Even Yugo’s lasted 3 years. Well, 2 years and 11 months maybe.

And yet no one is giving up their cell phones or computers that bounce off those satellites. DUHHH...
:ohdear::ohdear::bigbow::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

But, I get it you are a last work guy, so on that note Cya.

I expect sooner. All the other car makes are jumping on the EV band wagon now that he proved it can be done.

And I hear he is working on a Model 2 that will be a much lower price model.

Sort of related, on how new things come to market. Not that long ago (a few decades?), I remember seeing one of the first flat screen TVs. It was displayed in a big box electronics store, and was $16,000 for a 18 or 20 inch screen. Someone has to get the ball rolling. And those first balls tend to be expensive.

Hmm, I think I just saw a hybrid at $1.5 Million. But, Tesla is the leader right now, all the others are trying to find their place in the pecking order. In a couple years we will actually have choice again.

In November 2018, after 4 years of Autopilot, Tesla owners reached the first billion miles driven with Autopilot activated.

Less than two years later, 2020, Tesla’s fleet added 2 billion more miles for a total of 3 billion miles on Autopilot. It is expected to reach 4 billion miles ON AUTOPILOT this year.

NOt a bad beta test

I am sincerely trying to be helpful. I believe that "losing" is spelled with one O. Loosing with two Os has something to do with arrows sent from bows. Sincerely and with respect.....me

Thank you for the comment. I was not being argumentative, although I know I come across that way.

And thank you for the spelling correction - LOL - seriously, my spelling sucks big time! The only way I will ever learn if if people politely let me know when I screw up - so, thanks, and I do mean it.

Oh no GrumpyOldMan gets a C on his post for miss-spelling. Where are the moderators when you need them most. Then this should drive you NUTS
“ Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Could you read it? The truth is pretty much every fluent English-speaker can read and understand it.”

The units are fires per mile driven; a rate.

Technically FRAUD requires intent, I think.

Does laps around the earth count?

So compared to new or relative new vehicles versus all the new and uses internal combusted engine drive which out numbers them by 100s of millions.

The tens of thousands (I read up to 42,000) Musk satellites are intended to provide a way for the citizens of countries whose governments have tried to censor/control internet usage, to be able to bypass the government censorship. It's at least one step to maintaining a free, open and accessible internet globally, which should help combat fake news, propaganda and information deprivation aimed at controlling populations. I ask, what in the heck is wrong with that?

As crazy as this guys is, he is delivering on things that other people just imagine.

You have hit the nail squarely on the head. Screaming about "space pollution," is pretty darned humorous and is a real stretch in trying to find a reason to hate Musk. Satellites have been falling for decades and they almost always completely burn up before making it to ground, if they don't go into one of the oceans that cover 70% of the planet instead.

Rooting for innovative genius' who go out and prove naysayers wrong, used to be something that most Americans held in high esteem and admired (Ford/Edison/Tesla/Jobs/Harley-Davidson/Etc.,Etc.). What has happened to us?

Tesla is building a humanoid robot that will be ready next year. It's about time

I saw that, can't wait. He said (paraphrase) we have a lot of expertise on robots - the Tesla is basically a robot with wheels - LOL.

He did say next year, I expect knowing his track record, he tends to be a little optimistic - maybe in two years. But, I will be in line for that!

After reading the comments, yep, sure seems personal.

Photo of new Giga Factory in TX. Just completed Shanghai and Berlin factories, Same playbook as Amazon, years of growth, spending much $ and questionable viability but became viable. . something to consider.

Tesla Gigafactory Texas is taking shape in new drone flyover video - Electrek

I'm not interested in personalities, in petty resentments and jealousies, in hostility by ICE vehicle owners, in adolescent type bickering, in space junk, or any of that stuff. What is important to us is not this nonsense but rather that my other half was driving our Tesla on 466 when a landscaping truck whose driver simply didn't see the vehicle and pulled out right in front of our Tesla. Before even able to move foot all the way from power pedal to brake, the Tesla stopped virtually on a dime. By itself. A lot of heart racing, but not a scratch. That kind of safety is what counts to us, and yes, we feel that level of concern for the driver and passengers that goes into a Tesla makes it worth paying for and owning.

Agreed, and this is a comment repeated over and over by owners.

This morning 7:22am CBS news piece on “Congress and the Federal Government are investigating Tesla for its claims of auto-pilot capabilities…”

Thank goodness there is oversight.
Hes no genius folks. The emperor has new clothes…

Thank goodness the govern going to look into this. I feel safe now.

It politics again. They are investigating 11 accidents where Tesla was on autopilot and ran into emergency vehicles. So far the evidence is that in all cases the drivers were NOT at the wheel which they agreed to do while using autopilot.

11 accidents out of 4 billion miles driven on autopilot, and not a single death in those.

And IF someone wants to damn them for that record, then let's also launch an investigation into how many lives have been saved so far by the Tesla accident avoidance system - as reported by a resident here earlier in this thread.

I understand it is so much more fun to hate someone than to admire them.

Have been using auto pilot for about a year now and if your going to be driving on auto pilot and not pay attention your a fool. And most of if not all the accidents that have happened on auto pilot ( not sure if that was confirmed if they were using auto pilot) were from drivers who weren’t paying attention. This is still in beta mode and a extremely cool feature but to completely trust a computer to drive and not pay attention your crazy. The most amazing car I have ever driven look forward to driving it every time. Will never buy another ICE vehicle because of Tesla/ Musk

Never bet against Elon he always proves all the doubters wrong. And anyone who shorts Tesla has lost big time.$$$$
Everyone calls him a billionaire but all his money is in stock?
He sold all his homes and lives in a small 40k pre fab shoebox on site. Pretty humble in my opinion. Compare that to Besos and Gates they live like kings.
This guy sleeps on the floors of his factories. He sold PayPal and took all that money to start Tesla almost went bankrupt and never gave up!! His company ( not just a auto company btw) is now worth more than all the car companies in the world combined.
He’s wacky and posts stupid things every so often on social media but give credit where it’s due he’s done amazing things has forever changed our world! And don’t forget he’s not perfect no one is!

Pretty pathetic how nasty people can be.