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-   Medical and Health Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/medical-health-discussion-94/)
-   -   7,000 animals? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/medical-health-discussion-94/7-000-animals-148637/)

rubicon 03-26-2015 05:46 AM
A recent article in Wall Street Journal featured a history on the cultivating of chickens. Earlier man used chickens mainly as sacriface. However the article credited two woman from North Carolina as discovering the remarkable overall low cost of mass production in the early 1900's and then men caught on and the industry flourished.

A factoid that caught my eye was that chicken consumption was more than the cow, pig and sheep consumption combined. Again goat meat is the most consumed meat in the world. Hence creating the phrase "taste like chicken":mmmm:

queasy27 03-26-2015 05:55 AM
Aren't plants also living things? The Secret Life of Plants was published in 1973 and the theories of plant perception aren't new.

Are some animals more worthy of concern and protection than others? Is it okay to kill a cockroach? A snake? A rat?

graciegirl 03-26-2015 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by queasy27 (Post 1034836)
Aren't plants also living things? The Secret Life of Plants was published in 1973 and the theories of plant perception aren't new.

Are some animals more worthy of concern and protection than others? Is it okay to kill a cockroach? A snake? A rat?
How do we get into these discussions? They sellin' tie die and head bands again?

cbg150 03-26-2015 07:59 AM
I have recently concluded myself that a plant-based diet is the best for me and for the planet. This is a personal decision and I appreciate Jimbo sharing his feelings about how he came to that decision. A really helpful discussion would be how we can have more healthful choices in the Villages. A vegetarian and an Indian restaurant would be nice. So would a Whole Foods. Short of that, more vegan (dairy free vegetarian choices) on every restaurant's menu would be helpful. I was excited to go to Orange Blossom yesterday because I heard they had a page of vegetarian choices on their menu, but unfortunately 95% of it was not vegan. In a community this large, surely we could accommodate more vegan options?

jimbo2012 03-26-2015 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbg150 (Post 1034883)
I have recently concluded myself that a plant-based diet is the best for me and for the planet.

A really helpful discussion would be how we can have more healthful choices in the Villages. A vegetarian and an Indian restaurant would be nice.
Agree,
We go to Bamboo Bistro, Las Tappas, Thai Ruby, Japanese Steak house ( sounds crazy to go to a steak house but they have many dishes to choose from) they have several dishes or they will make anyway you like.

Sweet Tomato, you can also get several items from most restaurants that will work out. Moes by Target

Ruby Tuesdays, Cody's, Outback all can whip up several choices.

Arctic Fox 03-26-2015 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbg150 (Post 1034883)
A vegetarian and an Indian restaurant would be nice.
Urban Curry in Spanish Springs was very nice, but short-lived as the demand for it was low. It tried changing to Urban Grill - offering more non-Indian dishes - but that just delayed the inevitable closing :-(

Fresh Market on 466 has a good selection of herbs, spices and whole foods.

dplars 03-26-2015 09:23 AM
I'm going for 10,000

graciegirl 03-26-2015 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbg150 (Post 1034883)
I have recently concluded myself that a plant-based diet is the best for me and for the planet. This is a personal decision and I appreciate Jimbo sharing his feelings about how he came to that decision. A really helpful discussion would be how we can have more healthful choices in the Villages. A vegetarian and an Indian restaurant would be nice. So would a Whole Foods. Short of that, more vegan (dairy free vegetarian choices) on every restaurant's menu would be helpful. I was excited to go to Orange Blossom yesterday because I heard they had a page of vegetarian choices on their menu, but unfortunately 95% of it was not vegan. In a community this large, surely we could accommodate more vegan options?
You realize of course that if enough people were buying those sorts of things that businesses would sell them. Just because a small group want them or those people think they are more healthy and they think it is good for the planet do things just "happen." You have to have numbers of people to want them and would financially support them.

rubicon 03-26-2015 01:30 PM
I have never been one for fad diets especially when you are aware that 8 new ones appear every year but there is one diet that cause m to pause. A young girl, Brook, in my office often stopped me to explain the latest diet she was testing. On this day she caught my attention because for three weeks she would eat nothing but wine, cheese and bread Now that excites me....well until dinner when steak with mushrooms sautee in a butter wine sauce is served up with a side dish of pasta a glass of wine and oh yes a salad to fill my veggie requirement....a salad that is eaten last the European way

Bon appetit

rubicon 03-26-2015 01:35 PM
My birthday is on the horizon and I get to choose the menu I am planning on my wife making me chicken Kiev with rice and to fulfill my veggie requirement a medley of vegetables served with a white wine and of course my salad to be eaten the European way at the end of the meal :mmmm:

2BNTV 03-26-2015 02:34 PM
Sorry Jim, you are a good dude but there aren't enough statistics in the world, to convince me, to become a a vegan :D

I try to eat as little meat as possible but I can't give it up totally. :smiley:

jimbo2012 03-26-2015 02:47 PM
As of last year there were reported 16 million vegetarians in the US, half of those vegan.

So it's not everyone.

But the numbers are growing,
the point of my threads on this lifestyle (notice I didn't say diet) is simply to create awareness of options in food for your health.

TheVillageChicken 03-26-2015 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo2012 (Post 1035127)
As of last year there were reported 16 million vegetarians in the US, half of those vegan.

So it's not everyone.

But the numbers are growing,
the point of my threads on this lifestyle (notice I didn't say diet) is simply to create awareness of options in food for your health.

And you thought a good way to start the dialogue was to try and put meat eaters on a guilt trip by reminding us how many animals we butcher? This thread has made me determined to become a more militant carnivore. As a matter of fact, I am joining PETA

Arctic Fox 03-26-2015 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2BNTV (Post 1035120)
I try to eat as little meat as possible but I can't give it up totally.
Giving meat up altogether is a hard sell when many of the benefits can be gained by cutting back on portion sizes, having no meat some days and replacing meat with fish.


The number of "killings" cited by Jimbo may well be an underestimate:

"The average meat eating person eats 7,000 animals in their life time or 70 billion a year are killed for food"

If the average meat-eater lives for 70 years, then 7,000 animals in a lifetime is 100 per year. Multiply that by the number of humans - 7 billion - and up to 700 billion animals per year would be killed. Even allowing for not everyone being a meat-eater, you would have to kill, say, 500 billion per year.

Of course, there's a big difference between killing a sardine and slaughtering a cow...

jimbo2012 03-26-2015 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVillageChicken (Post 1035157)
And you thought a good way to start the dialogue was to try and put meat eaters on a guilt trip by reminding us how many animals we butcher? This thread has made me determined to become a more militant carnivore. As a matter of fact, I am joining PETA
they are looking for you chicken little, they have 12 likes, so only you and 11 others in the world. Don't worry in your case eat more meat the folks in ER will be waiting :wave:

graciegirl 03-26-2015 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo2012 (Post 1035176)
they are looking for you chicken little, they have 12 likes, so only you and 11 others in the world. Don't worry in your case eat more meat the folks in ER will be waiting :wave:
Most of us would never dream of trying to change anyone's diet. What people eat is their choice entirely.

I don't know why some folks are so militant about food choices..

Eat what you like. Live long and prosper. I have my own views as to what is healthy.

Arctic Fox 03-26-2015 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1035180)
I have my own views as to what is healthy.
I hope red wine and dark chocolate top your list - they do mine :-)

jimbo2012 03-26-2015 04:46 PM
agree to that :wine:

Villages PL 03-26-2015 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon (Post 1034573)
Why is it that people who are primarily vegans obsess over other people's menu selections? Why don't they just live and let live? Why do they believe it is their religious duty to convert meatatarians

Why is it now that medical experts reversed their thinking concerning saturated fats, meat butter, etc, salt levels, coffee...............? leading to the latest the refrain of "a steak a day keeps the doctor away"?

Why is it that vegans never talk about the fact that meat is a very important source of nutrition and consumption of a little goes a longer way than a vegan diet and is especially essential to older people whose rate of absorption is compromised as they age?

What meat is the most consumed in the world? Goat meat and that has not even been mentioned in this thread.

Seniors biggest challenge is ensuring they are geting proper nutrition (period)
In U.S., 5% Consider Themselves Vegetarians

According to the above link, 5% of the population are vegetarians and only 2% are vegans. So why do people always feel so threatened by someone promoting vegetarianism or veganism? How bad can it be if the Seventh-day Adventists, on average, live ten years longer than the rest of the U.S. population?

jimbo2012 03-26-2015 05:03 PM
you my want to research that a bit, not 2%.

Villages PL 03-26-2015 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVillageChicken (Post 1034637)
I have eaten red meat all my life and at 70, have zero prescriptions, and all my indicators are excellent, but unlike you, I realize that anecdotes don't advance argument. You know, the sad thing about cultural stereotypes is that they are better than 80% accurate, and the one about arrogant vegans is no different.
This isn't an anecdote: By age 65, the average person takes at least one medication. By age 75, the average person takes at least 3 medications, and 5 or more is not uncommon.

This information came from a USF Health lecture.

I'm a vegan, age 74, who needs no medication, according to my doctor. All my tests have been within normal range.

If you can eat meat and be healthy, good for you! But Seventh-day Adventists, who are vegetarians, live 10 years longer on average than the rest of the U.S. population. And that's not an anecdote!

Villages PL 03-26-2015 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kannon451 (Post 1034657)
Diehard vegans/vegetarians cannot accept the live and let live philosophy. They believe their life style choice is the only one and have zero tolerance for others. As seen in this message, when confronted with different views, they attempt to make others feel guilty and embarrassed.
I think the, there is room for all gods creatures....next to my mashed potatoes comment is the best possibly response to these fanatics.
When meat eaters don't have a good argument they always resort to name calling (fanatics). And talk about the "live and let live" philosophy, meat eaters get defensive over a little competition - 5% of the population.

TheVillageChicken 03-26-2015 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 1035230)
This isn't an anecdote: By age 65, the average person takes at least one medication. By age 75, the average person takes at least 3 medications, and 5 or more is not uncommon.

This information came from a USF Health lecture.

I'm a vegan, age 74, who needs no medication, according to my doctor. All my tests have been within normal range.

If you can eat meat and be healthy, good for you! But Seventh-day Adventists, who are vegetarians, live 10 years longer on average than the rest of the U.S. population. And that's not an anecdote!
You are cherry picking statistics and assigning correlations. That ten years of extra longevity is exactly the same difference between smokers and non-smokers. Seventh Day Adventists are non-smokers.

tuccillo 03-26-2015 05:55 PM
They also don't drink or use illegal drugs. I think it is probably safe to say that they live a healthier lifestyle and this results in longevity. Trying to separate out which part of the liefstyle contributes the most could be difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVillageChicken (Post 1035239)
You are cherry picking statistics and assigning correlations. That ten years of extra longevity is exactly the same difference between smokers and non-smokers. Seventh Day Adventists are non-smokers.

Villages PL 03-26-2015 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVillageChicken (Post 1035239)
You are cherry picking statistics. That ten years of extra longevity is exactly the same difference between smokers and non-smokers. Seventh Day Adventists are non-smokers.
Wrong, scientific studies usually adjust for things like smoking.

Anyway, only one out of 5 smoke in the general population, so how would that account for the whole 10 year difference, as you claim?

Barefoot 03-26-2015 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 1035218)
In U.S., 5% Consider Themselves Vegetarians According to the above link, 5% of the population are vegetarians and only 2% are vegans. So why do people always feel so threatened by someone promoting vegetarianism or veganism? How bad can it be if the Seventh-day Adventists, on average, live ten years longer than the rest of the U.S. population?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo2012 (Post 1035221)
you my want to research that a bit, not 2%.
You Vegans better get together and get your statistics straight! :doh:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 1035234)
When meat eaters don't have a good argument they always resort to name calling (fanatics). And talk about the "live and let live" philosophy, meat eaters get defensive over a little competition - 5% of the population.
Villages PL, I remember a post you made about eating a can of salmon. :confused:

Also, if meat eaters are being defensive, I think it's because of the confrontational tone set in the OP's first post: "7,000 animals are being slaughtered because of one meat eater". Perhaps a gentler approach might garner more interest and support.

Villages PL 03-26-2015 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuccillo (Post 1035245)
They also don't drink or use illegal drugs. I think it is probably safe to say that they live a healthier lifestyle and this results in longevity. Trying to separate out which part of the liefstyle contributes the most could be difficult.
No doubt it is difficult (at least it would be for most of us) but I have read accounts of studies in the Daily Sun where they say they have made adjustments for smoking etc.

TheVillageChicken 03-26-2015 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuccillo (Post 1035245)
They also don't drink or use illegal drugs. I think it is probably safe to say that they live a healthier lifestyle and this results in longevity. Trying to separate out which part of the liefstyle contributes the most could be difficult.
Winner.

jimbo2012 03-26-2015 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefoot (Post 1035249)

Also, if meat eaters are being defensive, I think it's because of the confrontational tone set in the OP's first post: "7,000 animals are being slaughtered because of one meat eater". Perhaps a gentler approach might garner more interest and support.
No confrontational tone at all, I only restated a fact.
Most folks never realized the numbers of animals, so now they are aware of a fact.

Garner more interest, really in 24 hours 1300 readers.

Support, not looking for support at all. Eat what you wish :mmmm: your health will vary.


.

TheVillageChicken 03-26-2015 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo2012 (Post 1035256)
No confrontational tone at all, I only restated a fact.
Most folks never realized the numbers of animals, so now they are aware of a fact.

Garner more interest, really in 24 hours 1300 readers.

Support, not looking for support at all. Eat what you wish :mmmm: your health will vary.


.
Don't get too excited, the vast majority of those visits are from webcrawlers or bots.

Villages PL 03-26-2015 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefoot (Post 1035249)
You Vegans better get together and get your statistics straight! :doh:
I could be wrong about the 2%. I don't think every vegan is registered as a vegan. I just did a quick search and thought it was a reliable source.



Quote:
Villages PL, I remember a post you made about eating a can of salmon. :confused:
Is that the way you remembered it? I ate a whole can at once? At the time I was dividing up a 15 ounce can to make about 12 servings and I would put them in the freezer. But I don't eat salmon on a regular basis. I'm a vegan on most days when I don't have any.

Quote:
Also, if meat eaters are being defensive, I think it's because of the confrontational tone set in the OP's first post: "7,000 animals are being slaughtered because of one meat eater". Perhaps a gentler approach might garner more interest and support.[/SIZE]
Was it the word "slaughtered" that bothered you? I don't think that's being confrontational; it's just a fact. Slaughtered is the word they use in the meat industry. How would you have conveyed the information without using the word "slaughtered"?

TheVillageChicken 03-26-2015 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 1035268)
Was it the word "slaughtered" that bothered you? I don't think that's being confrontational; it's just a fact. Slaughtered is the word they use in the meat industry. How would you have conveyed the information without using the word "slaughtered"?
"Slaughtered" is also a word that doesn't even appear in the original post.
The offensive word is the all caps YOU in the post. I am also offended by the implication that I eat sheep.

tuccillo 03-26-2015 08:28 PM
OK, I will buy that. If the research was published in a peer reviewed journal then the statistical methodology was reviewed. The key here is a professional, peer reviewed journal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 1035250)
No doubt it is difficult (at least it would be for most of us) but I have read accounts of studies in the Daily Sun where they say they have made adjustments for smoking etc.

tuccillo 03-26-2015 08:31 PM
The original numbers would indicate 2.5% (16M and half are vegans out of 312M) . This is sort of silly since it was a survey - who cares about 0.5%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 1035268)
I could be wrong about the 2%. I don't think every vegan is registered as a vegan. I just did a quick search and thought it was a reliable source.





Is that the way you remembered it? I ate a whole can at once? At the time I was dividing up a 15 ounce can to make about 10 servings and I would put them in the freezer. But I don't eat salmon on a regular basis. I'm a vegan on the days when I don't have any.



Was it the word "slaughtered" that bothered you? I don't think that's being confrontational; it's just a fact. Slaughtered is the word they use in the meat industry. How would you have conveyed the information without using the word "slaughtered"?

Barefoot 03-26-2015 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 1035268)
snipped ...... I don't eat salmon on a regular basis. I'm a vegan on the days when I don't have any.
I honestly didn't realize you could be a part-time Vegan.
Then I'm a Vegan too!

KeepingItReal 03-26-2015 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo2012 (Post 1034300)
[B][COLOR="Blue"]The average meat eating person eats 7,000 animals in their life time.

Total bunk put out by the vegan calculator club to get attention as noted at the link below that works...7,000 is estimated with no facts on this or their other opinions offered as usual.

80 year old on which the statement is based lives 29,220 days which includes 20 leap year days, he/she would have to eat an entire animal every 4.17 days for their entire life from birth to death. Common sense says it ain't so...even for a heavy meat eater not just the average meat eater.

https://curiosity.com/paths/meat-eat...-geobeats-news

Polar Bear 03-26-2015 10:40 PM
I'm a Steve Martin vegetarian...I eat a hamburger now and then.

DougB 03-26-2015 11:54 PM
This thread has made me so hungry I could eat a horse!

Halibut 03-27-2015 04:02 AM
Quote:
80 year old on which the statement is based lives 29,220 days which includes 20 leap year days, he/she would have to eat an entire animal every 4.17 days for their entire life from birth to death. Common sense says it ain't so...even for a heavy meat eater not just the average meat eater.
Thanks for the sensible post. :)

philnpat 03-27-2015 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepingItReal (Post 1035404)
Total bunk put out by the vegan calculator club to get attention as noted at the link below that works...7,000 is estimated with no facts on this or their other opinions offered as usual.

80 year old on which the statement is based lives 29,220 days which includes 20 leap year days, he/she would have to eat an entire animal every 4.17 days for their entire life from birth to death. Common sense says it ain't so...even for a heavy meat eater not just the average meat eater.

https://curiosity.com/paths/meat-eat...-geobeats-news
I guess they mean if you eat a salad with cocktail shrimp you've contributed to the slaughter of a dozen or so animals in one sitting.


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