Originally Posted by Cantwaittoarrive (Post 549973)

It's a 20 year study. I of course have no idea what the results have been for any of the other particpates and of course like any study they can always publish and or end the study at any time. I just think it's dangerous to issue blanket statements about anything! responsible researchers will never issue statements stating all people should do this or that activity or protocol. When novice that base their advice to others from a few books or from research based on Google searches I think it's dangerous. Every one is different, every one reacts to the same stimulus differently.

Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 541234)

I agree that the standard American diet is way too high in saturated fat, especially from all the many animal products. And I agree that those who have a family history of heart disease must take special care to limit saturated fat.

However, I just remembered reading something years ago about the fact that we need some saturated fat in our diets. If we don't get any from our diets our bodies will manufacture it but it won't be as good as what we would get from food. It's important for the building of cell membranes and it also serves as fuel for your heart and other tissues. The bottom line: Saturated fats should be strictly limited but not completely eliminated.

The amount you would get from using a small amount of olive oil, for example, would not be harmful.

For a more complete explanation, search the following: "Why do you need saturated fat? Wiki answers.com"

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 549985)

Isn't it better to strive for more fruits and vegetables and less saturated fats in our diet and to up our exercise and moving about? I get the feeling from the two big vegan/vegetarian posters here that advocate this extreme diet that nothing else but theirs is a good enough life style.

Originally Posted by Cantwaittoarrive (Post 549828)

It's dangerous to make blanket statements about anything.

Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 550091)

If I say a vegan lifestyle is better than any other lifestyle, how dangerous can that be? Has anyone ever died in their attempt to become a vegan?

*** the danger is in recommending anything without knowing someones medical issues. What are your qualifications for making this or any recommendations? are you licensed to pratice medicine? are you licensed to pratice anything?




We assume a certain minimum level of knowledge about these things. Nothing is ever 100% when it comes to health and nutrition and everyone should know this.

*** who assumes this knowelge?? you?? well that's a little dangerous for anyone that's not you. Again how did you attain this knowledge? What makes you qualified to say any more than this is what I do and it works for me?




Why mention medication? The mediterranean diet is about food, not medication. Ethnic groups: where's the proof that different ethnic groups respond differently to food and nutrition? And how many parents feed their daughters differently than they feed their sons? I never noticed it in my family or any other family.

*** For anyone that assumes a certain minimum level of knowledge you should then know that food is medicine and in fact many medicines come from products and / or by products of food we eat. After all you are talking about using food to impact your over all health




Does this study have a name? I'm in the "NIH AARP Diet and Health Study" and it's been going since 1995. They have already published severl papers in medical journals.

*** Not all studies are the same this study has a number not a name and the publication protcol is different for each study. Since I'm a subject of the study they didn't consult me on how or when they would publish




Your health reminds me of the health my father had. He ate a good amount of meat, eggs, cheese etc every day. And at age 78 or 79 it was determined (by some type of body scan) that his arteries were "clean as a whistle". But his diet did not protect him from cancer and Alzheimer's. He had both at the same time and died from one or both of those diseases. I believe it said "cancer" on his death certificate.

*** How do you know anything about my health?? I just gave you some basic information not my overall health. Guess what there are people that are vegan that also die from degenerative diseases. There are also people that drink and chain smoke cigarettes and live to be 100 so what's your point. Just because your father died from horrible diseases don't use that to make your point. Diet is not the only thing that may or may not contribute to diseases how about enviromental issues? I guess everyone has it wrong if you eat vegan you will live forever and never have a degenerative disease? Please show me the study that shows this result!

So you need to find the diet that will give you the best protection from ALL degenerative diseases. In other words, you need to cover all the bases. For most people veganism will accomplish that. And, remember, it's never about 100% certainty, it's all about reducing risk.

Originally Posted by Cantwaittoarrive (Post 550480)

This discussion reminds me of an example that illustrates the futility of the (my way is the right way crowd). If you want to go from LA to New York City you can choose many, many different routes. You can choose to fly, you can choose to drive, take a train, run, walk, bike skip, take a ship and many other ways. You can head north, south, east or west. Some ways are slower, some are faster, some more fun, some not so much. But they will all eventualy get you to your destination. Who has the right to tell you one way is better than the other or your way is wrong and my way is correct. Part of the joy of life for me is trying different things, keeping an open mind and discovering there are always more than one answer that works.

Originally Posted by Cantwaittoarrive (Post 549973)

I just think it's dangerous to issue blanket statements about anything! responsible researchers will never issue statements stating all people should do this or that activity or protocol. When novice that base their advice to others from a few books or from research based on Google searches I think it's dangerous. Every one is different, every one reacts to the same stimulus differently.

Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 550539)

.....

Again I ask, "has anyone ever died attempting to become a vegan"?

Originally Posted by pooh (Post 550567)

I will assume you mean adults, VPL and not children.

Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 550574)

I think mother's milk is needed in the beginning for good growth and development. And that's not veganism. Also, if kids don't get some form of concentrated protein during their growing years, they will likely be shorter than average. But kids have been raised on vegan diets. For example, the author of "The China Study" raised his kids on a vegan diet and one son was a co-author of the book.

Originally Posted by galeforce (Post 550654)

That was going to be my question too, what about coconut oil. I know you waid any oil but does that include coconut oil?

Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 550539)

I don't recall anyone ever saying, "ALL people should do this or that activity". It's one thing to give an opinion that you think a certain diet is the most protective against degenerative diseases and to then back it up with large long-term studies, but where did the word "ALL" come from? Did someone on this thread say "ALL" people?

Before anyone criticizes someone for saying something, there should at least be someone who actually said it. If you can come up with the actual statement, we can then try to judge how it was intended.

My statement in the previous post was, "for MOST people veganism will accomplish this". The word "MOST" is different from saying "ALL". And, furthermore, it's nothing more than a suggestion. That's what the Medical And Health Disscussion Board is for. We discuss and make suggestions. As far as I know, no special qualifications are needed for discussion on this board.

Again I ask, "has anyone ever died attempting to become a vegan"?

Originally Posted by jimbo2012 (Post 550738)

Yes it irritates the endothelium lining as well as all other oils, if you want to reduce plaque in the arteries ALL oils need to be eliminated.

When irritated plaque adheres to the location and builds/blocks from there over several years.

Image shows the lining inside a blood vessel wall, they are only one cell in thickness and very fragile when exposed to oil.


http://wikipremed.com/image_science_..._artery_68.jpg


Vascular endothelial cells line the entire circulatory system, from the heart to the smallest capillaries.
These cells have very distinct and unique functions that are paramount to vascular biology.

These functions include fluid filtration, such as in the glomeruli of the kidney, blood vessel tone, hemostasis, neutrophil recruitment, and hormone trafficking. Endothelium of the interior surfaces of the heart chambers are called endocardium.

Dr's Esseltyn and Ornish agree on this, I personally have benefited by eliminating oil from my diet in 7 months - big changes.