It is NOT OPINIONS. Science has studied viruses for many many years. It is a known fact, from scientific evidence that droplets are blocked by masks that have a tight weave. Do not call this an opinion because it isn't.

[QUOTE=CarolSells;1774558] Actually I didn't get a Flu Shot during that time, in fact I haven't had a Flu shot in umpteen years. Flu free for many, many +++ years.

Now I don't consider myself selfish nor does my family and friends far from it.

You have tagged, labeled those who chose not to get a Flu shot " Selfish ".

So what makes you an expert on " Selfishness ".

Since you are seeking an opinion from another person you obviously aren't the only one who consider themselves a " Selfish Person Expert " Give me a break. :shocked:

A couple of days ago while sitting in a restaurant, an elderly woman let loose with a huge sneeze right into the air. We were sitting at the next table but thankfully 6 feet away from her table. She followed that up with a second sneeze right into her hand. Not funny.

Wearing a mask is just for cosmetics?
 

Please see diagram posted by CFrance in post #2. That’s what I am going with, I don’t care what it’s origins are.

FYI. I didn’t call the people who didn’t get flu shots selfish. CFrance did.

Y'all need to learn how to use the quote button correctly. You're answering the wrong peoples' posts and then answering the wrong peoples' posts to complain that they're answering the wrong peoples' posts.

Everyone should have the right not to get flu shots or vaccines etc... but then they should also give up their rights to go out in public anywhere where they may infect others. Because what no one has a right to is to endanger or hurt others.

Wrong.

Why? That's just your opinion. The type of opinion that results in gov tyranny.

Edited: Never mind, beating a dead horse. And it did not die of Covid 19, but I am sure it was labeled as the cause.

Thanks for checking back in. 😎

Everyone should read this paper by two Doctors who are respiratory protection specialists. They looked at all the scientific papers on various types of facemasks and have some solid conclusions. They don't look at youtube videos of someone sneezing thru a tee shirt into a petri dish.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP

Per the link, two of the main reasons they are against masks are:

- Their use may result in those wearing the masks to relax other distancing efforts because they have a sense of protection.

- We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-risk healthcare workers.



In other words, their recommendation is to continue social-distancing...and to stay at home. :boom:



.

You are missing the point. Whether I am wearing one to protect you is not the point. You need to wear one to protect me. Please..

All good point. But if someone is doing Russian roulette on my head without knowing whether the bullet is loaded or not. I'd rather the person not pull the trigger.

Date of the paper was April 1, two months ago so no boom for you. :1rotfl:

[QUOTE=600th Photo Sq;1774583]Please let me tell you a story. A person dies and goes to the gate. St. Peter asks "would you want to go to heaven or go to hell?" The person wisely answers, "Sir, if you don't mind, I'd like to take a look at both places before I give you my answer". So he went to e hell first. There were enough food for everyone but the chopsticks and forks were too long to feed themselves. Given that they can't feed themselves, when someone throws food in the air, everyone fights to catch it and none gets fed. Next he goes to heaven and saw the same table, same food, same long chopsticks and forks but everyone feeds each other and live happily.. Covid or not, we can decide whether we want to live in hell or heaven. You too, can decide.

[QUOTE=Scbang;1774615]Thanks. That’s a nice parable but, as was cleared up earlier, the source of the “selfishness” concerning flu shots was not me.

Well said!!

[QUOTE=600th Photo Sq;1774635]Sounds like a good idea! Enjoy the rest of your evening. 🍷

[QUOTE=CarolSells;1774619]Something is wrong, I was replying to that "Selfishness" guy. :-)

[QUOTE=Scbang;1774640]Somehow along the way posts got tangled up. 😙.

I'm astonished you're still here to report this obvious infraction. Thankfully you were not 5'11" away! :icon_wink:

Fred

As I mentioned on page 9, you are all not understanding how the quote button works. You're quoting broken quotes, which makes it look like you're responding to someone else..

The first person broke the quote by not including the end-quote code. The second person quoted that broken quote, which carried the broken quote forward to the next poster. And so on and so forth.

All quoted posts should begin with a [ bracket, the word quote, and an end bracket ] . They should also end with a [ bracket, a forward slash / , the word quote, and an end bracket ].

You need to actually check and make sure they have both of these things, before you post your post, or you will continue the broken quote cycle.

You can also preview your own posts, to make sure that you didn't delete that end-quote code by mistake, before you ever submit the post.

You should read the article again and their conclusions. Their conclusions are solid but you've grossly misrepresented the point of the article.

You are absolutely correct.

However, some people post cherry-picked opinion pieces with the knowledge/hope that not everyone (unlike us)...will read the whole thing. :ohdear:

HUH? You're preaching to the choir. I agree with you 200%. You are either replying to the wrong person or the wrong quote or you didn't read the comment or didn't understand what I said. Likely the last. What I tried to say (obviously unsuccessfully) that there are just WAY TOO MANY of these same threads with the same arguments and each "side" has their own SAME OPINION and it's repeated over and over endlessly and no matter what anyone says no one will convince "the other side" to change their OPINION. It's beenbeaten to death endlessly already for weeks.

By your statements, I had no idea you were agreeing with me. Sorry if I misunderstood your use of the word, "opinions".

BTW......I love your signature. Makes me chuckle.

Oh really? Here's what I said.

Everyone should read this paper by two Doctors who are respiratory protection specialists. They looked at all the scientific papers on various types of facemasks and have some solid conclusions. They don't look at youtube videos of someone sneezing thru a tee shirt into a petri dish.

Paper is indeed written by 2 MDs who are respiratory protection specialists.
They did look at scientific studies of various types of facemasks.
They did come to some solid conclusions.
They didn't look at youtube videos of someone sneezing through a tee shirt.

Please point out where I "grossly misrepresented" anything.

I saw that YouTube video of the petri dish. Quite impressive actually and why not believe the results? Do you think YouTube video posters are fudging results? I guess that is a possibility.

I have been posting a YouTube video on several thread of a guy who spritzes water onto a mirror using a spritzer bottle. Water droplets go all over the mirror. Then, the guy spritzes water from the same spritzer bottle through a single layer of T-shirt material. Not one drop of water settled on the mirror. Not very scientific but sure as hell made an impression on me how one layer of T-shirt material blocked all those droplets from landing on the mirror.

I have been making home made masks out of Bounty paper towel (2 layers), a 2" strip of printer paper to make the mask 3D, one tissue folded in half, rubber bands and staples. Once all my materials are in place, it takes me about one minute to assemble the finished mask. I was curious to see if one layer of a Bounty paper towel blocked droplets on my mirror just the the one layer of T-shirt material blocked droplets in the video I explained above.

I conducted my very scientific (for me) experiment and low and behold.....not one droplet of water landed on my mirror as I spritzed water from a water spritzer on my mirror through one layer of Bounty paper towel.

Given that I use two layers of paper towel, the printer paper which sits in front of the mouth and one folded tissue, I know none of my droplets are escaping from my mouth or nose when I breathe, speak, sing, cough or sneeze. The mask fits very snuggly to my face so this is also a plus to protect others from my droplets. I don't know if I am an asymptomatic carrier of the virus which is why I wear a mask when I can not guarantee to social distance.

I hope people realize that home made mask wearing is to protect others around you and not the wearer of the mask. Wearing masks is to slow the spread of this virus.

As for this article, which I read read through, BTW, I took away one very important aspect of these doctors' conclusions: wearing home made cloth masks can block transmission of virus. These masks do not protect the wearer of the masks.

Gee, that is what I have thought all along.

The youtube videos sneezing through a tee shirt are not science which requires precise measurements. As far as their conclusions about masks, here it is straight from the paper.

"Cloth masks are ineffective as source control and PPE, surgical masks have some role to play in preventing emissions from infected patients, and respirators are the best choice for protecting healthcare and other frontline workers, but not recommended for source control."

I have seen other studies testing cloth masks as source control (protecting others) and depending on material used, to be from 10% to 50% effective in reducing emissions. That's better than nothing. Surgical masks are better in this function. Only N95 respirators can truly protect wearer from virus.

This is why I have stayed out of buildings, and maintained 20 foot distance while outdoors. I have nothing against those who use cloth masks when out and about. They do help a little bit.

That's a compromise? Sounds way more like a sarcastic troll to me. How about having the people that are sure that masks make no difference taking over caring for the ICU patients with COVID, no masks allowed. Is that a "compromise" too?

I can't believe we're still arguing this either. No mask can eliminate the possibility of spread of this, or any other, virus. A good mask (surgical or N95) can reduce the amount of expelled respiratory droplets which can carry the virus, if properly worn. It's also been said that the virus doesn't magically travel through the air on it's own; the most common method of airborne transmission is thought to be via these respiratory droplets. More than a merely psychological value, IMO. Unfortunately, homemade masks aren't likely to stop much at all except for the largest droplets, but may still reduce the velocity of expelled droplets, depending on the way they were made and worn. In either case, the wearer of the mask is potentially protecting others rather than ensuring their own safety. Since there is no question that asymptomatic carriers can spread the virus, in effect, wearing a mask in public unselfishly says 'I will try to protect others'. Refusing to wear one tends to imply the opposite.

Just for the record, COVID-19 is NOT the flu, no matter how many times it is used as a comparison... :ohdear: Given that no 2 sources seem to agree on the COVID-19 mortality rates, it is very nearly impossible to say that it is "virtually the same" as the flu.

Have you not heard. The virus is gone. The riots are here. Whats next?

Fair question, there are no single or perfect solutions so at the end of the day, it's about reducing risks. Personally, I'm not an infectious disease expert so I follow the most recent CDC guidance the best I can as we learn more and the guidance evolves.

Relative to the Rec Centers and other interior spaces, data and intuition indicates one of the most effective risk reduction methods is to improve the ventilation in the building. Make interior air as close to outside air as reasonably possible. This helps reduce risk for all occupants.

So it would be interesting to learn what is being done to the Rec Centers to achieve compliance as recommended by the CDC for the air those spaces. A few points extracted for those who don't click on links.

COVID-19 Employer Information for Office Buildings | CDC

Take steps to improve ventilation in the building:

Increase the percentage of outdoor air.

Increase total airflow supply to occupied spaces, if possible.

Consider using natural ventilation (i.e., opening windows if possible and safe to do so) to increase outdoor air dilution of indoor air when environmental conditions and building requirements allow.

Improve central air filtration: Increase air filtration to as high as possible (MERV 13 or 14) without significantly diminishing design airflow.

Consider running the building ventilation system even during unoccupied times to maximize dilution ventilation.

Generate clean-to-less-clean air movement re-evaluating the positioning of supply and exhaust air diffusers and/or dampers and adjusting zone supply and exhaust flow rates to establish measurable pressure differentials.

Have staff work in areas served by “clean” ventilation zones that do not include higher-risk areas such as visitor reception or exercise facilities (if open).

Consider using portable high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) fan/filtration systems to help enhance air cleaning (especially in higher risk areas).

Ensure exhaust fans in restroom facilities are functional and operating at full capacity when the building is occupied.

Consider using ultraviolet germicidal irradiation (UVGI) as a supplement to help inactivate the virus.

Total nonsense. "Almost" means you have incurred at least some risk and possible contact with others who just may be carriers. Maybe 2 weeks after the last time your isolation wasn't 'almost total', this would make sense.

Nope, neither close nor prolonged contact are really necessary. Indoors, respiratory droplets may stay in the air much farther than the 6 feet recommended for social distancing. Then there's also the fact that virus particles can live for hours on surfaces you may come into contact with on the rare instances you are out & about. You also seem to discount the possiblity that others here in The Villages can't have recently been exposed & become carriers themselves. Maybe you should follow your own advice to "Get a grip"?

What's the difference being 6 feet apart whether you are going in the same direction or in the opposite direction. None ( makes no damn sense for the arrows)

Wearing masks in Public
 

I have many medical issues including oxygen. If I were not wearing a masks and someone who wasn’t wearing one and they sneezed or coughed there is a good chance that I could die if their spray hit me, unfortunately you don’t even know if you you have the virus, at the beginning most people do not know that have it at the beginning. I’d like to have everyone thinking of each other rather than just thinking of themselves.

It's unfortunately true.
You can spread the virus without knowing you have COVID-19.