Hobby Lobby: the Supreme Court's Decision
 

ANY type or just the four claimed to potentially result in abortion? They are still covering 16 of the 20 contraceptive methods required by the ACA. Are they not?

From what I know, the decision was very limited, in that it only applies to "for profit companies" with private ownership (i.e. family or limited ownership). That seems appropriate as a freedom of religion exception for individuals and not the general public (public companies).

I think you are right-not sure on the details, but heard that they were covering the majority of the birth control, with the exception of the meds considered abortion drugs, or the morning after pills, etc.

Supreme Court Broadens Hobby Lobby Ruling to All Forms of Birth Control
So much for Justice Alito's "narrow" opinion.
—By Patrick Caldwell | Wed Jul. 2, 2014 8:32 PM EDT

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...-contraception

Good decision - If we had one more liberal judge the results would have been very different. It always alarms me that 9 supposedly intelligent judges seem to vote ideologically instead of legally. So our Supreme Court decisions are political and not based on the rule of the Constitution. Saddens me.

Depends on if you think corporations are people....and religious people at that.

2010 Supreme Court decision said corporations can be considered as an individual.

Good decision. Hobby a Lobby was againstpaying for 4 abortive contraception drugs.

five catholic supreme court judges decided that the concerns of a corporation which holds a religious view which happens to be exactly the view of the catholic church must be respected. However these same five catholic judges went out of their way to say that the religious views of others which are not shared by the catholic church are specifically not included in their decision.. transfusions and vaccination are supported by the catholic church but not be some very common faiths in this country. the majority went out of its way to state that those other religions objections don't count. So this was not a decision based on freedom of religion but rather another decision based on the personal religion of the judges. The exact opposite of what separation of church and state is supposed to represent.

Great idea to have "appeals court rehear the cases in light of the Hobby Lobby decision." Gives the appeals court the opportunity to confirm their initial decision because the cases are so much more broad and lack the "numerous qualifiers" that the Hobby Lobby case met.

And Hobby Lobby has no problem buying scads of goods from China, a country with forced birth control and sometimes forced abortion, to the point that many baby girls are abandoned by the side of the road to die because they were girls and not boys.

How horribly hypocritical. It has nothing to do with religion, in my opinion. The bottom line is money. They don't want to pay for this stuff, and they don't care that the supreme court put the onus of the cost back on the insurance companies, who will now raise premiums to employees to cover the cost.

There's frequently something unethical behind the closed doors of these so-called religious corporations. They have the same lawyers as everyone else.

CFrance -
How will insurance companies increase premiums to cover the cost of products that will not be covered in the employee's insurance plan?

Maybe it is too late for me to be up and trying to figure that out. Don't rush to explain - I'm gonna head to bed! C'yall l8r!

I'll find it and let you know tomorrow, NJBB. I read it in the news or heard it on NPR.

I find it extremely frightening. What next -- privately held corporations will once again be allowed to discriminate against homosexuals, people of color, women, etc.? Oh,wait, this ruling does allow a company to discriminate against women since birth control is not a male issue.

You are so spot on. What a slap in the face of women this decision applied. Once again, religion takes precedence over common decency and the LAW. Shame on the court. When decisions are split between liberal and conservative lines, that shows prejudicial bias from both sides.

What's Good for the Gander is Not Good for the Goose!
 

To,label Plan B and IUD's as abortifacients is bad science. I guess our daughters will have to consult their bosses instead of their doctors about birth control. This is part of the dissent from Justice Ginsburg.
"Would the exemption…extend to employers with religiously grounded objections to blood transfusions (Jehovah's Witnesses); antidepressants (Scientologists); medications derived from pigs, including anesthesia, intravenous fluids, and pills coated with gelatin (certain Muslims, Jews, and Hindus); and vaccinations[?]…Not much help there for the lower courts bound by today's decision."
"Approving some religious claims while deeming others unworthy of accommodation could be 'perceived as favoring one religion over another,' the very 'risk the [Constitution's] Establishment Clause was designed to preclude."
"The court, I fear, has ventured into a minefield."

Just to be fair, I understood that NOT all Birth Control was at issue, only the ones that caused abortion. Like the morning after pills. I am a moderate, and a person who supports Rowe Wade, and believes in the separation of church and state. I think it is very possible for people to hold sincere beliefs on the subject of abortion and I understand them, even if I don't agree with them. I can see both sides.

Although I struggle with faith I would never condemn those with faith or without faith for sincerely held beliefs. I don't think a business would make an issue like this for Greed because the potential to lose business is very real when you take a stand like this. Who knows?

We look at this as we look at all other things, because of our life experiences and our education and our inate personalities. Which means our firmly held beliefs.

Vote on issues you CAN vote about. It feels like that isn't much anymore. It feels like the folks in Washington don't send many choices our way. I am concerned about checks and balances. Immigration will further change the vote. I feel powerless.

As our society grows more pluralistic , the issues of sectarian religion will become more and more vexing.

This decision is troubling to me as it is only a precursor to many more troubling issues that we will face. A mine field for sure.

The words of Jesus, " Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's and unto God, That which is God's"

Please understand it is not all contraception that is being denied - that is a liberal lie being told to boost the "war on women" concept. The owners of Hobby Lobby believe life begins at conception; therefore, to take or use something that would cause that viable egg to be destroyed is against their religious beliefs. Why should these private owners have to pay for something they don't believe in? What about their rights to religious beliefs? They are not telling women how to live their lives - they still have the option to buy on the open market something that will terminate the pregnancy. And let's get down to personal responsibility - if you can't afford to get pregnant or pay for the morning after pill than use you brain and don't get in that position.

If you feel so strongly that your business should pay for this option for a woman than you should put your money and time and family life on the line and open a business next door and then those that want this coverage can come work for you. Stop already
with the whining and the "I'm entitled bs".

Agree. Too many over zealous fanatics to allow one belief to dictate to all Americans.

We Need To Break This Addiction
 

Corporations are organized to serve peoples needs utilizing people (employees) to execute such commerce. so to me corporations are people.

I had detected some real religious bias in some of the posts. and it is not surprising to find that those who believe abortion is right will not be pleased with the courts opinion.

I will skip over all of that and focus on two factors economics and freedoms.

I am very concerned that the government is using economics to continually shrink our freedoms. i am very concern that our government actually would have us believe they should be paying for someone's birth control or those blue pills that create the need for birth control. Medicare now says taxpayers will support transgender operations.

It has been reported that all of the major health carriers will be increasing premiums around 20%-25% for the 2015. Many retiree health plans have been dropped or employers have established a stipend type arrangement.
Employers shop benefits on a continuum and they are well aware of what is facing them and they do not want the burden.

Hint: an insurance policy can be made to cover anything. The catch is that an actuary is going to calculate the cost vis a vis the likelihood of a loss
So if folks want a health policy to cover everything fine but like the man said pay me now or pay me later.

In summary I am leary of Greeks bearing gifts. Clearly big government is destroying this country because every segment of its society has their hands out creating crony capitalism and serfs who serve their lord who is quickly regulating every aspect of your life. We need to break this addiction.

Findlaw's blogs and Con Law professor web-sites.
 

Supreme Court on Hobby Lobby: 5 Things You Should Know - Law and Daily Life

If you want to dig into the ramifications of this decision which only affects the Federal Government's response to these drugs not the States http://blogs.findlaw.com/california_...ifornians.html check out Findlaw's blogs as well as various Constitutional Law professor's diaries (blogs) and the like.

http://onward.justia.com/2014/06/30/...n-hobby-lobby/

This is a very interesting solution to this problem presented by Street Signs' Jake Novak -- http://www.cnbc.com/id/101807865#.

I did see a curious post on the internet relative to this SCOTUS decision. The main points were:

(1) If your employer is a Jehovah's Witness, can they now refuse to provide insurance that will pay for blood transfusions due to religious convictions?

(2) If your employer is a Scientologist, can they refuse to provide insurance that will pay for doctor visits due to religious convictions?

My apologies in advance to all Jehovah's Witnesses and Scientologists as I know little about your religious beliefs.

Do not forget about the ones who do not believe in vaccinations.

As Justice Ginsberg said, " this is entering a minefield" of what can be brought up.

Bad decision.

Well, we stopped going to Hobby Lobby over a year ago anyhow based on their lunatic fringe idealogy.

We may as well be out on the back porch talking to the dog. We aren't ever going to change anyone's mind on religion or politics but we are going to ruin someone's day.

The amount of days left on this earth is diminishing.

Good Morning everyone.

I muddled this for a couple days and this is what I came up with:

If HL were truly committed to its principles, they would opt for funds in their portfolio such as the Catholic Value Fund which screens for any conflicts rather than purchase pharmaceutical funds that manufacture life ending drugs. They would resist purchasing product from countries like China that not only supports but monetarily rewards abortion as population control. You can't have it both ways.

Churches are exempt but not outreach of churches or other church business activity which I think is wrong. We have separation of church and state and that should be respected in all aspects. If it is church activity, it should be exempt.

However, at the end of the day, HL is not in the business of religion and therefore should not be exempt.

Hobby Lobby is a family owned corporation. I have no stand on abortion but let's look at it this way. Hobby Lobby looses millions of dollars every year by being closed on Sunday. They are one of the few large corporate businesses that close on Sunday. They close on Sunday in order to stay stead fast to their religious principles. It seems they should also have the right to other things that they hold important to be true to their faith. They have also said they would close their business if forced to provide the drugs they oppose. I don't believe they are bluffing. This is just a very important issue to them.

When looked at in that way, you make a perfect excuse. I still feel we are looking at discrimination and that is a bad thing. Should they be allowed to require all new employees to convert to their specific beliefs to obtain employment.

I keep shopping at Hobby Lobby because their personal beliefs have no impact on my life but their great products and sales do have great impact on my finances!.

Ginsberg/minefield - rotflmao
From the decision:
"(3) This decision concerns only the contraceptive mandate and should not be understood to hold that all insurance-coverage mandates, e.g., for vaccinations or blood transfusions, must necessarily fall if they conflict with an employer’s religious beliefs. Nor does it provide a shield for employers who might cloak illegal discrimination as a religious practice."
[http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/im...-354_olp1.pdf]

No, they should not and do not make such a requirement. Hobby Lobby pays twice the minimum wage and provides good benefits except for birth control. If that is an issue for a woman, she may not want to apply for at job at Hobby Lobby. I'm not saying their stand is right or wrong. I just think they have a right to decide.... Just as they have a right to decide to close on Sunday when that is also outside the norm.

Agree, we need not turn into a secular nation like so many in the Middle East. This is one more way of chipping away at the freedoms Americans love. Leave my guns and my way of worship alone.

How do you get from a privately owned family business which is held only by a few family members [rather than is publicly traded] and who provides insurance to its employees for 16 of 20 contraceptive measures to this being discriminatory against women?

How do you even question the potential to discriminate against the laundry list of people you cited when THIS case is about 4 forms of contraception?

That's right, and just how they have a right to ignore there own beliefs and buy much of their product line from China, which promotes abortion as a means of population control.

Which countries in the Middle East are Secular?:shrug:

:bigbow: :agree:

Check the facts of the case. This was about 4 forms of abortion-inducing birth control. Hobby Lobby did provide and will continue to provide 16 other forms of birth control.

If the employers can stand up to and meet the numerous limiting qualifiers established in this decision - most likely yes. What do you think the odds are that one of those employers is going to test that possibility?

Hobby Lobby did provide and will continue to provide birth control except for 4 forms (out of 20) that are abortion-induing. To say that they are not proving birth control benefits is just wrong. Also, nothing is stopping Hobby Lobby employees from purchasing abortion-inducing forms of birth control.