I'm very concerned about whats going on in Iraq. Are you?
 

I find this recent muslim ISIS group very scary. I choose not to get into the debate about how long we have been aware of this group, but now that we all are aware of their march through Syria and Iraq, their brutality and growth, what are we going to do? If their goal is to conquer the world, spread Islam only and kill anyone who is another faith, how long before it hits our shores?

What is your take on this whole thing? Doesn't it seem like their fundemantalist movement is gaining speed in the Mid-east?

I'm glad to see that our president is finally taking some action to at least help those poor souls being held captive on a mountain with no food, water or shelter.

I don't know what the answer is beyond that, but we spent a lot of money and gave a lot lot of lives to oust the Hussein regime and install a democratically elected government. Are we now supposed to sit back and allow all of that work and sacrifice to got to waste?

I don't like the idea of another ground war, but I also don't like the idea of parents, wives and husbands of those who gave their lives to bring democracy to Iraq seeing that their loved ones died for no reason.

Back in the 80s, Colin Powell told GHW Bush that if we invaded Iraq, we would own it. A decade later he supported the UN action and I'm afraid that he was right. We invaded it and now we own it.

Iran owns it..as WE exited ..IRAN sent fighters across ..we did IRAN a favor I fear

When Hussein was in power there was no Isis and no al Qaeda. There was a powerful dictator with an iron fist. Iran was a mortal enemy. We took him out for the flimsiest of reasons, and I would be hard pressed to consider the new government a democracy by any means. And to go back in and try it again is some form of insanity.

It is a mess of gigantic proportions and, in my opinion, was caused by our greed for their OIL. I am very glad I don't have to make the decisions about how to handle it. Al Qaeda were bad enough, now these crazies appear ...............

:agree::agree::agree:

As a nation we unleashed a more evil Jeanie out of the bottle now the world has to deal with it.We should have stayed out of it

If we don't go in then evil anti-American people will take control and one nation after another will fall to their ruthless armies and crush their freedom loving population. We are all old enough to remember that line from Vietnam where we propped up one incompetent government after another and sacrificed about 60,000 soldiers. Then we left and now Vietnam is a vibrant economy and there was certainly no domino effect that negatively impacted our national security nor interests. We have backed out of conflicts with a cost of both lives and treasure (see Beirut 1984 ). We need not go back in to somehow justify the sacrifices we sadly have already made. Is showing how tough we can be in imposing our will against Muslims going to be the test for succeeding in politics like being anti-Communist was in the '50s?

Hind sight is like a rear view mirror always 20/20. So to blame anyone at this point about what we should have or shouldn't have done is a total waste of time. The important thing is to do the right thing now. The president has taken a good first step. I hope he will escalate the support for especially the Kurds if necessary. The Kurds are probably one of our best allies in the region. They are very good fighters and if we supply them with the equipment they should get the job done. Make no mistake this new group ISIS is no JV unit. They are well organized, well funded, and well trained. They are a major threat and should they take complete control in the region the dynamics in the reagion are going to change and not for the good. This may require boots on the ground as we cannot let ISIS win this fight. The first approach is to make sure those that are fighting against ISIS get the equipment they need to wage the battle. If we ignore this threat we will be very sorry in the future. ISIS will strike the USA if they get a chance and they will have no problem with killing anyone, that includes women and children. One of the biggest threat to us currently is there is at least 100 Americans fighting with ISIS. These individuals will be very hard to identify if they decide to return to wage war inside the US. This is a very scary time in history. With the trouble in Iraq, Russia, and Israel one cannot wonder whether the end time may be just around the corner.

This about sums it up.

The enemy we face today is far different then who we faced in the past. We were on the brink in Vietnam of making the North throw in the towel had we just continued to bomb them just a bit longer. ISIS is different as there is little we can do to ware them down. There is no point in at which they say, I'm tired of the fight, I want to stop. They are barbaric in their tactics, they have no compassion for their enemy, and they believe, really believe, that what they are doing is God's will. If they die in this battle they will be rewarded. We are in a real war and should we think otherwise we will be sorry. We are about to enter a holy war. There is no way to appease ISIS except if your dead.

I do not think this situation can be seen in any way as imperialism by the US. This is protection of Americans there and finally, at last thank God, protection of Iraqi Christians who are being killed and oppressed by crazed Muslims as though it were the eighth century.

It is self interest and a moral, yes moral duty for those of us who don't believe that "everything is relative" and one religion is as bad or good as the next a la the embarrassingly silly "C*O*E*X*I*S*T bumper stickers.

In the eighth century and later, Muslims spread into Europe, and were only stopped by force not wishful thinking. I have concerns now about history repeating itself especially when I neither hear nor read of any supposedly moderate Muslims denouncing the violence. Silence in America, Europe, and of course, the Mid East. I am repeatedly told those 'voices' exist and are here… really?

Well thought out post. I wish our leaders were as insightful.

"When Hussein was in power there was no Isis and no al Qaeda." Yeah. Right. That's why Pres. Clinton was trying to get Bin Laden way back in the 1990s.

"Al-Qaeda (/ælˈkaɪdə/ al-ky-də; Arabic: القاعدة‎ al-qāʿidah, Arabic: [ælqɑːʕɪdɐ], translation: "The Base" and alternatively spelled al-Qaida and sometimes al-Qa'ida) is a global militant Islamist and Wahhabist organization founded by Osama bin Laden, Abdullah Azzam, and several other militants, at some point between August 1988 and late 1989, with its origins being traceable to the Soviet war in Afghanistan. It operates as a network comprising both a multinational, stateless army and a radical Wahhabi Muslim movement calling for global jihad and a strict interpretation of sharia law. It has been designated as a terrorist organization by the United Nations Security Council, NATO, the European Union, the United States, Russia, India and various other countries (see below). Al-Qaeda has carried out many attacks targets it considers kafir. Amidst the Syrian civil war, Al-Qaeda factions started fighting each other, as well as the Kurds and government.

Al-Qaeda has attacked civilian and military targets in various countries, including the September 11 attacks, 1998 U.S. embassy bombings and the 2002 Bali bombings." wikipedia

I agree!! Sometimes we do learn from past history. Hopefully, we will not make the same mistakes again with American blood.

I do think it's important to ALWAYS evaluate past strategies and outcomes so that we learn from our mistakes (both diplomatically and militarily) and are more effective and efficient in future conflicts. Many people predicted a civil war along tribal lines if the brutal dictator Hussein was removed from power. We've seen the same thing in Libya and Egypt most recently. At some point you have to choose the lesser of two evils. Which route results in the least loss of life commensurate with maintaining our national interest? Did Hussein kill more or did 8+ years of war and now a civil war among tribes?

My PERSONAL (Libertarian) opinion is to basically allow civil wars and regional conflicts to be decided locally, interfering ONLY when America's strategic national interest is threatened (Syria most recently.) In Iraq I would arm the Kurds in the north with modern weaponry, let Iran arm and defend the Shia's in the south, and ISIS will (unfortunately) get its weapons/funding by sympathetic Sunni friends. There are a lot of nations with strategic national interests and security concerns jockeying in this part of the world. DO NOT put US boots on the ground and spill any more blood policing this bad neighborhood.

For those that truly have a fear for the future all I can say is that the US military is incredibly capable and has a devastating arsenal of weaponry. What it lacks, or rather is constrained by, is the political will to unleash any more than tiny bits of it. The ENTIRE country of Iraq could quite easily be leveled (similar to the terrible scenes in Gaza) in just a few days using airpower alone if it weren't for the massive loss of life that would ensue (MILLIONS.) The world community simply won't stand for that level of brutality and destruction… and rightly so. Therefore, we use "surgical" airstrikes dropping a few dozen 500 lb bombs and essentially tap the enemy on the head with what amounts to a little wooden chopstick. Make no mistake though, we are capable of killing the bad guy if the political will exists. And by political will… I'm referring to "acceptable" collateral civilian damage as very little is truly "surgical" on this scale.

Just my thoughts though… your mileage may vary.

Calm down. I was referencing Iraq in my post. No al Qaeda in Iraq when Hussein was in power.

Ever wonder where terrorist groups such as ISIS and Hamas get the money for their missiles and other weaponry??
Answer:
From us. Every dollar we spend on Arab oil helps arm and support these groups. We need energy independence NOW!

Weapons from the fleeing Iraqy army. Money from the banks in the cities they raped.

Prior to World War I Europeans were fat dumb and happy and never for a second anticipated the immensity or the possibility of World War I nor its continuation in to World War II. Since that time Europe has never been the same.

Iraqi Freedom was right to rid the country of a mad man. The idea of some sort of democracy there was a seedling that would have continued to grow through out this region. Unfortunately politicians interfered. Many people are not aware of the fact that the colonist were calling for independence 100 years before the Declaration of Independence was signed. Building a democracy takes time patience and a strong will

War is evil and evil has existed since the beginning of mankind. Nature abhors a vacuum and the best we can do is, our level best to see it is filled to the betterment and not the detriment of mankind. In order to maintain that equilibrium peace through a strong defense is needed. Politicians scrambling for votes ignored this premise. Our enemies sensing this failure to act are filling this vacuum with the likes of ISIS,Iran, Syria, Russia, etc. Even border patrol agents are now expressing fear of mounted attacks by undesirables at our southern border.

Human nature is never going to change and any perception of weakness is going to get you killed. The good characteristic of human nature is that men have a tendency , a code that says don't attack the weaker, protect them. So when men see that the weak are being victimized they act.

It may sound corny and perhaps naive by some but if American does not return to asserting itself as the superpower that seeks justice and democracy for all we will eventually perish.

Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I followed the news on the Middle East but would like to do more research before voicing an opinion.

Please see "The Iraq Liberation" act signed by President Clinton in 1998.

Then check comments by his administration officials concerning Al Queda

Clinton first linked al Qaeda to Saddam - Washington Times

Iraq Liberation Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I might add that we live in a very very small world now, with what appears to be a leaky border. Read the various reports by border officials concerning NOT Central Americans trying to cross in Texas, BUT folks from middle eastern countries.

Point is President Obama must act...in my opinion in defense of our country.

Collateral damage is a relatively recent term. During WWII when we firebombed and carpet bombed Germany and Japan, we didn't hinder ourselves with the fear of civilians dying. When we dropped both of the atomic bombs on Japan we ended the war and saved hundred of thousands of lives.
These Muslims are far worse than Hitler and do want to take over the world and as far as collateral damage is concerned if we want to win it than it just has to be. We have to look out for ourself and our allies.

Best statement here:

I agree and considering their brutality and determination I'd suggest we remove the threat BEFORE they have access to nuclear weapons!

I believe "These Muslims" have a long ways to go before they equal the death and suffering that Hitler inflicted on the Jews, Western and Eastern Europe and Russia during WWII. Six million Jews alone as well as millions of others died during that horrific war. They do not have the backing and resources of a whole nation as did Hitler and are looked upon as outlaws by the majority of Muslim countries.

As I understand, radical Islam is responsible for 120 million deaths in Africa alone.

Your source must be Pamela Geller.

Ever feel like a grasshopper?

sigh... denying the truth doesn't mean it isn't true.
.i personally think the following
we are in the midst of the start of a new "world order" World War..religious differences has caused countless deaths throughout mankind's history..more than any other cause...

a few quotes to ponder

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.

Faith: not wanting to know what is true.

The man of knowledge must be able not only to love his enemies but also to hate his friends.

All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
well that should be enough to ponder..for now!

I personally have a problem spending any time on such "hogwash"!

I have been concerned enough for the last week or so, that I decided that I would learn as much as possible. First I began going over the histories of WWII, Korea and the Vietnam conflicts - what started it all, what provoked us to enter the conflicts and then the outcomes. Then I superficially went over the wars about religion throughout mankind - like the Romans, as an example. I tried to catorgise them into "original " instigators, who else entered the conflicts and why and outcomes and unintended consequences. I'm still working this out in my head but the picture is getting clearer. The posts that many have provided have helped greatly in my understanding. Each poster has come forth with an opinion based on life experiences and those are very valuable to contribute. If you have been in the armed services, you contribute concerns to national defense. Many who are Christians have empathy for the defenseless copts.
Their concerns are based on passivisivim and "we should all get along and tolerate each others differences". Intelectuals are of the opinion that we can "think" our way out of this, a peaceful discourse if you will. People with wealth and power think war is an opportunity to gain more of the same. Politicians don't say too much for fear it could reflect on their re-election. The media is there for every sound byte and depending on the party they are affilated with, will slant the news their direction. Whats really good for us as a country is illusive. Not that anything I may finally believe will have any bearing on what our government may or may not do, I should have some opinions formed soon. I feel myself beginning to lean in a direction that is a bit uncomfortable for me. So, I'm entering new territory for thought. Everyones posts have been very thought provoking. Real interest from very learnned people who have shared their life experiences and opinions. I am beginning to think that there may be only one answer - and if thats the case, we better make sure its for the right reasons and not look back - not second guess our choice and just suffer the consequences. But the American people will need to be dealt with honestly. We all will need "frank" answers to our questions. No boloney about PC, no dancing about important issues or special agreements, contracts, and money to prop-up other entities. NO MORE muslim immigration. And our allies need to be on board or they can consider themselves off the Christmas list. We have become so wishy-washy, so PC that we aren't even allowed to call our enemies our enemies. Thats whats "hogwash". Call it what it is and then do something about it until its done. AND THEN KEEP OUR NOSE OUT OF OTHER COUNTRIES BUSINESS.

Very thoughtful research. There is no easy answer to the current problem. I believe to ignore the problem will only put the US in jeopardy. The other question if the US does not intervene to support those that need it who will? The problem is sometimes we try to force our perspective on those we help and not let them make their own decisions. However there is a point in time where actions of others demand that we stick our nose in the fight.

Good post. You covered most of the bases in your investigation. I might offer a few things that, in my opinion, color or change the hue at least of some of the insights based on history.

We now live in a very small world. Of course the actual size isnt changed but the speed of travel and communications has made us all very close to the entire world. Thus, a threat during the time of Korea, WW2, Vietnam or back when the old religious wars were being fought is multiplied by hundreds and in my opinion cannot be compared.

Next, we have the threat of weapons beyond comparison. IF in fact, ISIS, for example is as vicious as they appear and if they , in fact, are determined, as they say, to wave their flag over our WH, do we not think they will work toward obtaining nuclear weapons of other weapons that can destroy so very many people suddenly ? Of course they are and if you look around the region at who lurks there.....people and actual governments who are sworn to destroy us and whomever our allies might be.

Now add our very porous border, especially in the southwest. There are reports of folks being stopped trying to enter this country posing as Central Americans but actually being from the middle east. Most have been stopped, but the word MOST bothers me.

NOBODY, not just the one who say it because it is politically correct, but NOBODY wants to kill other human beings...NOBODY wants others to suffer.
EXCEPT, it seems those who daily make threats to do such things and are actually succeeding. I have watched in great horror at what has happened in Syria....children literally gunned down in the streets and nobody has done anything to my knowledge. THAT was and is a humanatarian crisis before this one.

I applaud the President for getting involved and I hope it has an "end game" not founded on any political gain or public opinion poll. Those public opinion polls will change faster than a heartbeat with JUST ONE action in our borders.


Just adding this from today's USA TODAY....

"The Islamic State is metastasizing much the same way al Qaeda did, but on an accelerated timeline. Bin Laden's network grew in the 1990s by recruiting foreign fighters who had battled the Red Army in Afghanistan in the 1980s. The Islamic State has developed its own deep bench of transnational terror talent, recruiting from countries throughout the Middle East, Europe, and even the United States. Franchises are reportedly opening in Libya and Tunisia. The North African terror conglomerate Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) has aligned with IS. Nigerian Boko Haram leader Abubakar Shekau has sworn allegiance to al-Baghdadi, as has Abu Sayaaf leader Isnilon Hapilon in the Philippines. The Islamic State currently controls more fighters, more territory, and has a vaster alliance system than al-Qaeda ever did."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...lumn/13622585/

Not quite the JV team we thought !!

I'm very pleased with the post that I have read lately. It just may be that these current events will not divide us further but bring this country together again. Great challenges in our history is when the real strength of America emerges. Our enemies may be doing the exact opposite of what they hope to accomplish. As a Japanese Admiral said after Pearl Harbor: "I'm afraid all we have done is waken a sleeping giant"

There are many sources. Here's one.


+290 million victims of Islamic terror.

120 million Africans, according to Woman’s Presbyterian Board of Missions, David Livingstone, page 62, in 1888.

Don't forget, Hitler didn't have the weapons of mass destruction that are available today.

The 120 million Africans was attributed to the slave trade in Africa which I believe the US clearly participated in. Do we have any responsibility for that?
I would say that is a stretch to say Islam is responsible?

However, Hitler was directly responsible for the death of 6 million Jews w/o WMDs and was getting close to nuclear fission bomb.

I suppose your defense of the stats on how many the Islamic terrorists have killed is somehow admirable, but wonder why you comment on the stats instead of the current situation ????

Hitler was a LONG time ago. The problem with radical Islam is now. And even if you are not a Christian, you might just be mistaken for one if you live in the U.S.


In order to survive a conflict, you must identify the enemy and all the political correct things that people pass off as reasonable, minimizing this issue, aren't. Reasonable. I fear for the future.

Muslims do not hold their women as equals. Too many Muslim women have had their sexual organs altered so they cannot feel pleasure. How barbaric and primitive and ugly is that. I know this because my next door neighbor in Cincinnati, an M.D., went to Egypt with a team of physicians to try to do something to stop this practice. She is Buddhist. Just google cliterectomy.

The radical Muslims view all who are not converted to Islam as infidels.

No problem here YET, if you don't count the World Trade Center and The bombings at the Boston Marathon.

No I do not care. They can kill each other. Fighting over there has being going on for thousands of years.