Big Bang and the Bible
 

Is the Big Bang theory consistent with the Bible? If not, please explain. For the non-believers – If not God, then how?

Two recent threads about prayer and “God’s knowledge” were the inspiration for this post.

If you are a true believer in the big bang theory, then you should know Creation took place, therefore there is a creator. Therefore, God exists!

Just because we don't know what the origin of the universe was is no excuse to say that it must have been caused by some supreme being.

If one contemplates that there are more stars in "our" universe than there are grains of sand on earth, and that if you believe in the "multiverse", our universe is but one tiny champagne bubble in a huge bottle of universes… :shrug:

True believers do know and are at peace with it even though they don't and never will know every detail...it's called faith. Others will search forever but never find the answers. Hard to understand why some struggle so hard not to believe in anything or believe in some far out bizarre explanation. :ho:

limit for this post is 14000 characters long.
 

The Fingerprint of God tells the story

Conceit drives this ever ending debate. It makes no sense to me to watch and listen to scientist make ridiculous statements concerning a subject matter as complex and immense as the universe. Scientist can't even get evolution on earth correct. Its all guessing and one up manship between scientist.

Specifically as to the "big bang theory" subscribing to its authenticity is like saying that if you loaded a large building with alphabet letters and numerals and then blew it up the result would be the formation of a gigantic encyclopedia.

Perhaps the simplest explanation is correct. Perhaps the universe has always been and will always be and that changes are natural and occurring over time?

Human beings living between the two eternities struggle to understand their existence to make sense of the why's and how's that is also a natural occurring thing

The story of Genesis was an attempt by people of 2000 years ago to make sense of their world. It's a good story, very plausible.

Did you know it was a Catholic priest, a Jesuit priest, who first proposed the expansion of the universe theory or the hypothesis of the primeval atom which we call The Big Bang Theory? Georges Lemaitre.

..."Should a priest reject relativity because it contains no authoritative exposition on the doctrine of the Trinity? Once you realize that the Bible does not purport to be a textbook of science, the old controversy between religion and science vanishes . . . The doctrine of the Trinity is much more abstruse than anything in relativity or quantum mechanics; but, being necessary for salvation, the doctrine is stated in the Bible. If the theory of relativity had also been necessary for salvation, it would have been revealed to Saint Paul or to Moses . . . As a matter of fact neither Saint Paul nor Moses had the slightest idea of relativity"...

-Lemaitre

One word -evolution

Richard, you got that right. Just because science can't currently explain everything doesn't mean that the automatic default is some sort of supreme being.
At one time people thought the earth was flat. Which, by the way, is supported in the Bible.
At one time people thought disease was caused by evil spirits such as the devil. Even today some of my favorite Sunday morning comedians are still trying to drive the devil out of sick people.
At one time people thought species were fixed and unchanging.
Many people still believe the earth is only about 10,000 years old.

But science has come along to shine a light on these old, outdated beliefs. And I'm sure as we continue to make discoveries many other incorrect notions will fall by the wayside.

One other thought. If this universe was created by a supreme being, who created the supreme being?

Is a red flower prettier than a yellow one? Does your spouse love you? Answers to this sort of question would begin with I Believe that... They are questions of feelings or beliefs. They are not science questions and while a scientist might examine your neurochemical response to a photograph of your spouse that would only explain that you respond to your own belief. And we all know that the answer to "does your spouse love you" can be very different next week or next year" Faith or belief is not science. Why do people conflate them? 2 + 2 is 4 You don't ask if I believe it. The sun appears to rise in the east because the globe rotates from west to east. You don't ask if I believe that. Science is based on a foundation entirely different from religion. Science is testable and mutable. Religion is untestable and immutable. The great strength of the scientific method is its opportunity for evidence to completely reconstruct knowledge. Religion offers no mechanism for change other than reinterpretation, or "we didn't really mean that" Is the earth flat, Is the earth the center of the universe and the sun goes around it? Is slavery sanctioned by your god? Is a woman here to be dominated by her husband? Will eating a lobster send me to hell? Does the FSM touch me with his noodly appendages? When will the world end?

For those of faith, whatever their faith you believe you have answers to these things and point to one book for your evidence. Is your book a Bible, a Koran, a loose cannon, a tipitaka? You can argue all you like that your book or your religion is the right one but your certainty is not science it is faith. And faith is a wonderful thing. It gives solace and creates a community for support. And faith is a terrible thing. It creates fanatics who are more than happy to die for their god, and citizens who are certain that their faith's rules should govern everyone.

So no scientific theory needs to concern itself with whether or not it is congruent with a holy book. And please don't get all confused on the use of the word theory. Theory does not mean a stab in the dark with no evidence. Do you understand the theory of gravity? Do you understand the germ theory of disease? A scientific theory establishes a structure for understanding observable natural phenomena. A good theory not only explains what we observe but makes predictions which can be tested which would disprove its accuracy and subject it to modification. Newton's theories were terrific but on the edges, wrong and have been replaced with Einstein's relativity theories. And these are subject to testing and certainly in the future will be shown to be wrong as well. The fact that science asks to be proven wrong and thus improved is its greatest strength. So the question is the Big Bang consistent with the Bible is meaningless to a scientist and only of importance to a person who feels the need to make their religion be not wrong if one accepts the science. It becomes either find support for the Big Bang in the limited words of your holy book, or attack the science because it does not explain everything (which is of course the whole point of science in that there are always unanswered questions)

I thought Gary Morse created the universe. I know he created mine.

Where does Ken Wilber's - AQAL or all quadrants all levels occurring together fit in? We look through a glass darkly.

Big Bang and the Bible
 

Wow, such certainty.

I am a true believer that the Big Bang theory is consistent with the existence of God, and could also be consistent with The Bible, since The Bible is so open to interpretation.

Big Bang and the Bible
 

I love these sorts of questions. If you're a believer in the Big Bang theory (which I am), what was before the Big Bang?

Well said. AND KINDLY said.

One other thought. If this universe was created by a supreme being, who created the supreme being?[/QUOTE]

exactly......:agree:

....who came first the chicken or the egg.....

The Big Bang Theory was developed as said by a Catholic Priest and Scientist as a way to scientifically prove Creation. The Big Bang is Creation. There was nothing and Bang the Universe was created, by God The Father. No contradictions. The Big Bang says nothing then Big blast when God said Let there be Light.

Here's a book you might be interested in:
 

Book: "The God Gene: How Faith Is Hardwired Into Our Genes" by Dean H. Hamer

Of course this has been debated but it's interesting to note that religion has existed everywhere in the world throughout history and has taken on many different forms. So it seems to point to a need that people have within them to create something to explain the unknown. It suggests that we are the creators who created the concept of "God the creator."

Interesting insight from Ecclesiastes 3:11 "He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end."

The Bible says the earth is a circle
 

Isaiah 40:21-22 you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood since the earth was founded? He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Proverbs 8:27
When he established the heavens, I was there: When he set a circle upon the face of the deep,

This scripture Jesus talks of 1 day and 1 night - at the same time
Luke 17:31-34
On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot’s wife! Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

Job 26:7
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Or could the reverse be true?
 

Or is it possible that God, the Creator, has instilled in us the need to know our Creator?

Mine too!
He turned my life around. I will always be grateful.

I believe this is it in a nutshell. The sad part is most are trying to fill this need with anything but the creator who created us. We need to realize that everything has a designer behind it. Everything we do now starts with a thought followed by an action. Why is creation thousands of years ago any different?

Big Bang Theory
 

As I studied for my Masters in Theology degree we learned that the theory posits that the universe as we know it was created from a singularity, that is. a point or region in spacetime in which gravitational forces cause matter to have an infinite density; associated with Black Holes,) This singulaity was caused by matter interacting with other matter. There was then a universe which evolved from that singularity. Does that preclude the idea that God created the universe? Not at all. God was the creator of the matter and the gravitational forces. He is the first mover." Even in the creation story in the Bible it was not explained by what process God worked each day.

God was definitely the creator of the universe.:spoken:

very interesting, sallybow! and i like tedquick's remarks, also.

I like you so much Salybow and I like all that good stuff you learned at Xavier University in Cincinnati, but most of all I like that you teach what you believe without words. Your warmth and caring attitude is genuine and makes everyone who knows you feel accepted and loved. You are smart and you have a kind heart.

This is all faith based. Belief in God the Creator, the bible, etc requires faith.

In that same vein the genesis of theories espoused by scientists are also based on faith.

Inquirying minds need to know and because of that this vacuum needs to be filled and the content depends on your belief system.

I would agree that if God did not exist it would be essential to create him because the human race needs guidance.

I feel strongly both ways:shrug:

But that wouldn't explain all the different forms of worship from the beginning of recorded history, like sun worship etc. What good is instilling a need with no focus? We have the Jewish religion that believes Jesus was just a philosopher and the Christian religion that believes Jesus was the son of God. Did God plan it that way?

If man wants to know God, he comes as a seeker who does not know, but longs to.
It is God's work to reveal himself...it is beyond man's ability to force an intellectual meeting with the Almighty on a field of challenge that man chooses.

Thanks o much Gracie. I am crazy about you also. Such a bright, caring person. I hope all is well with you.:bigbow:

Some thoughtful and civil posts in this thread. I think we all agree, though, that it's really hard if not impossible to fit our ideas/arguments into a blog format.

I'd really respectfully suggest that people read "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist" by Norman Grieser. It is written by a believer in God, and it does a very good job of addressing these questions surrounding the "Big Bang Theory, its history and its various permutations over the decades.

It doesn't have to convince you, just make you perhaps think about this great topic in another way - from a devout religious person's well educated view.

Random thoughts on religion:
 

How many people believe that the Bible is the word of God? To those who do, where does it say anything about a singularity that exploded?

For a long time religious people ridiculed the Big Bang Theory. Now, slowly, some seek to claim it as their own, as God's creation. Talk about wanting to have it both ways.

It seems like what it boils down to, for many, is moral relativism. There's no right religion or wrong religion, it's all good as long as you express it with warmth and conviction.

Religious freedom and its moral relativism is great as long as your favorite religion is in the majority. But how would we feel if those of the Muslim faith became the majority and started to implement Sharia law? There are Christians who say our right to freedom comes from God. If that's the case, then Muslims can change that right based on their particular faith.

Just food for thought.

A good thread.

:bigbow:

Nice post VPL… definitely thought-provoking! Now take cover for incoming… :popcorn:

I re-reviewed ever one of the posts on this thread. One poster spoke of moral relativism and from the manner in which many responded I can see relevance
to the conversations at hand. The primary camps have been faith and science one or the other. And those stories, lessons, theories etc are passed along from one generation to another man to man woman to woman and to say it is all true because I told you just doesn't sit right for me. and to have a scientist say that this is settled doesn't either because as time passes so too do these settled scientific theories change and evolve into something else altogether.

My position is that we will never know. I do agree and support the notion that we should look for answers but I am convinced that man is lacking in what is needed to grasp the totality of it all. This subject matter is well beyond our comprehension.

Reminds me of a story. A scientist has a meeting with God and says, "God, we don't need you anymore. We can create life ourselves. Just let me show you. First you take some dirt. God stops him and says: "Get your own dirt"

Some Quick Notes
 

While I cannot provide a definitive answer to the two questions that VPL asked, if I understand what kitty is suggesting, and that being that man has blocked his “approachability” with denial or a heart that disallows God’s entreaties, then the result will be something other than God’s intended goal.

God’s freewill gift to us is both a blessing and a curse. The blessing is that we can choose faith or no faith. The curse is that we can choose faith or no faith. Two or more people, each having shared identical experiences, will rarely, due to filtering through their own personal histories, end up with indistinguishable conclusions; similar, perhaps, but rarely identical. Our freewill (and what a powerful and liberating gift [except for its simultaneous curse]) is perhaps one of the most valuable gifts that God has given to mortal man, second only to His Son which delivered, to us, Grace. We can choose. We can choose right or wrong. We can choose life or death. We can choose to have faith or not to have faith. We can choose to believe or not to believe. Or can we?

I believe in God. It is comforting to know that the Triune has been forever. It is comforting to know that the Triune will be forever. While I must admit that it is a challenge for me to comprehend, before the Big Bang, that there was no time and that there was nothing but an infinite singularity, there is some comfort in knowing that there was/is “something out there” that is greater than mankind. I believe that something to be God.

I am additionally pleased that it is not up to me to judge the belief of others nor is it up to me to judge the unbelief of others. I do think it is sad that the non-believers have no source or no anchor on which to lean when their worlds are falling apart. The opposite of that is also sad; to whom do they turn when they want to thank “someone” for the extraordinary lives that they may be living: or do they think that it is all of their own doing? (Sadly that used to be me. Gladly that used to be me).