Sarah Palin! Again!
 

I previously said I would not post in The Political Forum while the campaign was on, yet I did post in the Femme Forum to a question that was posed. Sarah Palin and Motherhood. My response was pulled. So, I'll try it here and see if it stays up.

This is the way I see it. Agree or disagree, again, this is the way I see it. Sarah Palin left to go back to work 3 days after giving birth to a boy with Down Syndrome. Then, even though he is now only 4 months old, she decided to take on this campaign. Do I call that great mothering? No, not in my opinion. Today, they announce that her 17 year old unmarried daughter is pregnant. It happens, I get it. Yet, it all seems just fine to her because her daughter is going to have the baby and marry the father. :dontknow: Just another teen pregnancy. Senator Obama took the high road and said "leave families out of it."

OK, so let's talk about the fact that she was the Mayor of a town of only 7,000 people. And it has been stated, that she left that budget in tatters. Now she is the Governor of Alaska, a population of about 700,000 people, or 1/3 or the city of Chicago, or about 80 people per square mile. This is the person chosen to step in if something happens to the President. As Bill Mahr said, "when she gets a call at 3am it's because a moose has kicked over a garbage can. She is also under investigation in Alaska. Is McCain kidding? It's not funny.

Please don't give the argument that this is only a VP. 3 weeks ago, Sarah Palin did not even know what a VP did. Her own words. This particular VP slot is important as this is a 72 year old man that has had 4 bouts of cancer.

I think this is the lowest form of pandering and insulting to all women. If he thinks he's going to get the Hillary voters with Sarah Palin, that's a joke. Sarah Palin stands for everything Hillary Clinton has fought against all of her career. It won't wash.

McCain's choice speaks volumes about his judgement. Only meeting this woman one time, for 15 minutes, he decided she could run our country. He is so busy trying to be a maverick, he made an impulsive, and in my opinion, disastrous choice. This is not the kind of choices I want from the President, a man with his finger on the button. No thanks to the McCain/Palin ticket. You know, just when I think it can't get any worse, it does. We can't afford 4 more years of the same, whether you want to believe that or not. IMHO.
It's actually not 4 more years of the same -- it's worse!

Oh! You'll Get Responses, But...
 

...like I suggested in a couple of other political posts, none of us are convincing anyone. It seems that everyone's mind is made up. I'm not being critical of that because I know that my mind is made up.

That being the case, I'm not going to attempt to convince anyone else to reach the same conclusion on who to vote for as I have. Convincing myself was hard enough!

But I will read with interest the thrashing back and forth on the question of the presidential candidates. Every now and then a new factoid emerges--like the pregnant out-of-wedlock daughter of Sarah Palin. I heard that before, so I suppose it will be confirmed soon enough. It makes for an interesting juxtaposition of the vice presidential candidates on the subject of effective parenting however.

Anyway, the fireworks are about to begin, I'm sure. Have fun everyone...and please don't take any of this stuff seriously...at least until inauguration day.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

I agree VK. Let the fireworks begin! http://www.millan.net/minimations/sm...kwrksmiley.gif

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

I must have missed the memo that decreed the appropriate size city or state to run.

I must have also missed where it states what size city or state (of any size) the senator....any senator has run.

As far as having a pregnant teen....none of our business. I dare say there are more in TV who wished they didn't have a grandchild that way....but it happens. If it were a Hollywood darling like Brittany's sister it might be more acceptable.....to some.
I was impressed with Obama's response....leave the family out of it.

As was stated by several members of this forum, when one thinks they have discovered something note worthy enough to put in print...it would be extremely helpful to name the source so we can all partake and have other than parroting or hear say.

I hope all are wise enough to know that there is a team (on each side) whose objective is to dig into every aspect of anything about either party. They operate on the basis when they find something, it is better to get kudos for finding and releasing something...even prematurely or not quite true. Once the arrow has been fired an apology won't bring it back.....it's politics.

C'mon folks if the American standards will tolerate Bill Clinton's shenanigan's in the White House, how could anything anybody else does be a problem?????

BTK

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

BTK, there is nothing in my statement which is not true. And again, I too have a right to my opinion. ;)

BTW, if Bill Clinton's shenanigan's were the worst of our problems right now -- this country would be in good shape.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

I am not voting Republican...I am an Obama supporter...

However, I don't think Palin's pregnant daughter should be prime time news...

We all have skeletons in our closet...we shouldn't judge...and it shouldn't be an issue. I agree with Obama.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Bang!

In this case we have a person who would be a heartbeat away from the presidency with comparable "experience" to a person who wants the job now.

Sen. Obama hasn't had the responsibility of running anything in his professional life, let alone a town of 7,000 or a state of less than a million (Alaska ranks 47th of 50 in population). So, whether or not he would leave the US budget in tatters, based on no experience of ever having responsibility for a budget of any size, should be a concern. Having no public administration experience (Sen. Obama or Sen. Biden) is an issue, and was Sen. McCain not having any as well.

The last small-state governor (Arkansas, 33rd of 50) to become a president was a Democrat, and Democrats stated then state size was not an issue.

Personally, I think both parties based their VP choices in order to go after voters which they believed the primary candidate would not carry. That is unfortunate, because both went for vote-getting as opposed to establishing a team of leader-and-advisor. But, that's politics (sadly).

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

No fireworks from this corner. I think there are a few valid points made in the first post, although I do find objectionable the Maher comment and the ridiculing political badge made part of the post....not sure what that kind of stuff has to do with anything but being a bit mean...however.....I see some of the points.

I do have a question for the beginner of this thread.......

If in fact selecting Gov Palin opens up his judgement, why then can we not discuss the mentors, associates and advisors of Sen Obama as it relates to his judgement ?

I also will add, and I agree with a bit of your comments on experience....that spending one entire paragraph discussing her family and various pregnancies and praising Sen Obama, I would have hoped such a post as yours would have mentioned the nasty rumors that made this particular announcement necessary not that Sen Obama had anything at all to do with that I considr that kind of slander (which did make it to this board) some of the lowest.

But in any case....just give me a response to my question and I will go away and allow whatever..

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Bucco, I never said you do not have the right to take Obama's former associates into your consideration. But for me, I have already looked into these and put my mind at rest.

I would never presume to tell anyone what right they do or do not have.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Bucco, I never said you do not have the right to take Obama's former associates into your consideration. But for me, I have already looked into these and put my mind at rest.

I would never presume to tell anyone what right they do or do not have.
__________________________________________________ ____________

Then I misunderstood you totally....I thought you said it was not an issue to be discussed.

I apologize

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Obama was born to a teenage unwed mother. I am sure he can sympathize with the young girl's plight.

BTK- By the way, CNN reported McCain had several affairs while married to wife #1 and even applied for a marriage license to Cindy before his divorce was final. I think it was the series they did on their lives. You can probably find in on their website if you want to check it out. I am so over hearing about Clinton's escapade. I don't agree with it, but at least she was a female, unlike Mark Foley, Larry Craig, etc.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Palin's daughter can be the poster girl for another failed Bush policy, "abstinence only". Just remember that since Bush took office the government has spent over 1.5 BILLION on abstinence only nonsense.

Do doubt McBush, will continue on the same track!

Our tax dollars at work!

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Just an observation....except for STEVE who gave stats and discussed the ISSUE of experience and BILLEKID...we have had thus far in this thread....

"As Bill Mahr said, "when she gets a call at 3am it's because a moose has kicked over a garbage can. "


"BTK- By the way, CNN reported McCain had several affairs while married to wife #1 and even applied for a marriage license to Cindy before his divorce was final."

"Palin's daughter can be the poster girl for another failed Bush policy, "abstinence only".

AND of course the cute button mocking the Republican ticket.

just an observation on the expected "fireworks"

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Bucco, sorry I don't see your point here. The RNC has done and will do much more name calling than these few comments. They have already attacked Obama's family and his religion. Have you forgotten all this?

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

What I find quite appaling is that Democrats are making this "17 year old un-wed mother to be" an issue, however if she would have just killed the little guy (another name for abortion), this would be a non-issue.

Quite disturbing.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Appropriate comment for today's tolerance in some quarters, Petegru.

Gutter politics at it's finest.

We have today three page ones for the New York Times all focused on Palin's daughter.

It is political and partisan tactics to keep the heat and the spot light off the real issues.

Oh if we could only get as much attention to the real intents of the candidates.

Tit for tat mudslingers (both parties) wasting our precious time and $$$$. It is so bad they have even passed up the war and energy independence as major topics. I know somebody will call me on the last time who ever said what about either subject.

There is way to little discussion of PRESIDENTIAL substance.

I have seen better campaigning content in high school and colleges.

BTK

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

This is what I find disturbing....A very negative Obama thread was posted here which contained these 2 comments:


HE IS PROUD OF HIS ‘AFRICAN HERITAGE’ (A FATHER
WHO GOT A GIRL PREGNANT AND DESERTED HER).

WHERE IS THE PRIDE IN HIS ‘WHITE HERITAGE’? (A
MOTHER WHO FLAUNTED CONVENTION AND DID NOT BELIEVE IN GOD).

Actually they got married and divorced when Obama was 2 years old.

Now by my way of thinking you can't have it both ways...If it was wrong for Obama's mother to get pregnant at 17 and an issue is being made about that...then Palin's daughter getting pregnant at 17 is an issue. The Republican party has made itself out to be the party of Family Values...be in the recent past we have seen:

A Republican Senator nabbed at an airport for sex solicitation
A Republican Senator on the DC Madams list
A Republican Congressman hitting on the teenage male pages.

Obama's mother didn't get an abortion and neither will this young woman....if she is to be applauded for her actions then certainly so should Obama's mother.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

This is the way I see it. Agree or disagree, again, this is the way I see it. Sarah Palin left to go back to work 3 days after giving birth to a boy with Down Syndrome. Then, even though he is now only 4 months old, she decided to take on this campaign. Do I call that great mothering? No, not in my opinion.

------------------------------

The reason I am not voting for Obama is a protest to the sexism that went on during the Democratic primaries. Even Laura Bush has commented on it. The statement above reflects the kind of sexism women politicians have to face.

If a man with a 4 month old Down Syndrome child can run for office then a women also should be able to run without comment.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Palin gave a speech in June to the graduating class of her former church, Wasilla Assembly of God. She stated "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending U. S. soldiers on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

This mentality is much more troubling than whether or not she is a great mother.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

I think McCain rushed this VP pick and kept it quiet for a while is because he's probably afraid of what's going to come out about her.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Have we degenerated that much that such a sentiment is considered troubling? These comments could well have been said by FDR or Eleanor at any time from 1941 to 45, by Wilson in 1917, by Lincoln fom 1861-65, or Washington at Valley Forge. Now this mentality is troubling? If this is the prevailing attitude in this country, we're doomed.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

So you actually believe the Iraq war is doing God's will? WOW!!!!!! I didn't realize the Crusades were started up again??

As an aside, Palin also suggested the same group pray for a $30 billion gas pipe line she wanted built in the state "I think God's will has to be done in unifying people to get that gas line built so pray for that."

Guess all her prayers are ultimately about oil.

A heartbeat away!!!!!!!

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Not only is this prayer consistent with what former presidents would have offered but also what Jesus instructed his disciples in the Lord's Prayer: "Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in heaven". This may be offensive to some, but to the vast majority of Americans it is standard theology.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

What am I doing posting on here?

Sarah Palin is a little more conservative than me, and quite a bit more religious.

I am a (cradle) Catholic who supports legalized abortion, but never could have one. I also am for stem cell research. But I am very financially conservative.

I also could never have five children because I am to much a worrier.

I think she is a good person.

I am pleased that Senator Obama said "Let's leave the children out of this."

I still don't know who to vote for.

And I hope some of you still like me. I am too old to hide my views if I am going to comfortably live among you.

Why did I post in political. Omigosh.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Well some of my best friends are Republican and some Democrat. No matter who you vote for you can come over to my house for coffee...that is when I get there in Dec.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Sorry, but to say that the war in Iraq is "God's Will" is just idiotic! Yes, I am a Catholic. I believe in prayer, but I don't believe other Presidents would have put the prayer in just that way. If she had left out "this is a task from God, or this is God's plan" it would have been fine. But to put it the way she did is not only troubling, it is disgusting. It's just wrong.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Chelsea,

Note that she did not say that Iraq war was God's will. To the contrary, she asked the students to pray that what we do in Iraq is according to God's plan and that our leaders are following God's plan by sending troops there. In other words, if sending troop to Iraq is not part of God's plan that our leaders would recognize this and bring them home. This idea of submitting to God's plan is a fundamental aspect of Christianity as well as most of the world's religions. Only when viewed through partisan lenses does it seem nefarious.

Edit: To clarify, I think this is a paraphrase of how you are reading this:
Pray for ... Also for this country, that and for our leaders, our national leaders, who are sending U. S. soldiers on a task that is from God. . The part in bold is what would have to be added and the part with the strike through would have to be deleted for it to mean what you think it means.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Hugs to you. You just come to my house too.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

If I can come, too, I'll bring some homemade cake!

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Come one, come all.......

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

What is wrong with equality?? If Sarah Palin was a liberal democrat there will be no criticism. Maybe we did not know that the only women that are entitled to equality are Democratic/Liberals.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Bucco, sorry I don't see your point here. The RNC has done and will do much more name calling than these few comments. They have already attacked Obama's family and his religion. Have you forgotten all this?
__________________________________________________ _______

Chelsea, want to make a quick reply to you as I have been out all day...MY POINT was really aimed at the comments that you and VILLAGESKAHUNA made when you began this thread...something like....watch the firworks or something like that...anyway, it made me think that you two expected those that DISAGREED with you to give you a hard time.

My point was that the only "fireworks", ie. slamming of anyone came from you and those who seemed to support you and those who opposed your views were calm, reasonable and made their point without any making fun or slamming anyone. I have never nor will I ever go after anyone personally...nor do I or will I make fun of candidates, parties, etc whether I agree or disagree with them. Thus I am very sensitive to this point and notice it and what I posed was alluding to the fact that the fireworks you expected came only from those that agreed with you.

I dont care for those who make fun of others ESPECIALLY in this campaign.

I will add concerning your comment about "The RNC has done and will do much more name calling than these few comments. They have already attacked Obama's family and his religion. Have you forgotten all this" You obviously feel that the Democratic party is clean and does not do this...I will just inform you that is not true and could do a complete thesis on the state of political campaigns in this country..if you think that KOS and MOVEON talk about Gov Palin protecting her daughter by lying about whose baby is was was done and nobody in the Democratic party knew it, you had better take off your rose colored glasses.
I want to make clear...both parties do it and it is a shame...I, personally, just do not like it when it is made to appear to be a one way street.

In that vein, you know how I feel about Sen Obama's background and training, and I have read and heard a number of credible reports saying that there is sort of an unspoken agreement to try and stay away from this area at this point. I have no problem with and have never questioned Sen Obama's character...be clear on that...it is his idealogy that bothers me.
In any case, rumors abound that what they are doing to Gov Palin on a personal level may make the unspoken agreement go by the board.....again, please do not think that the KOS's and MOVEONS operate on their very own...they dont. I mention them because I believe KOS was the source of the nasty stuff this time.

Again and just to make it clear...I have never questioned Sen Obama's character..I have never made light of him or Sen BIden..it is based truely on what I consider to be radical idealogy.

This became a long short reply :) but again the post last night was just to point out where the "fireworks" and personal attacks were coming from and not from what I think you expected !

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

I have to strongly disagree with this post....the Liberal Democrats have been beaten over the head for a number of years as godless and lacking Family Values. Now the Veep candidate has a pregnant daughter...What do you think Dr. Dobson would have said if this was Joe Biden's daughter? Not even close to what he said today.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Someone explain to me, and I guess you will need to use little words to make me understand....

How can any candidate, male or female, Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative be criticized because their daughther is pregnant ?

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Bucco, you are trying to find logic in an illogical situation. The tendency is to accept the fact that your candidate and those around them are human - complete with frailties - and to villify the other candidate because the other candidate and all around them are not "perfect."

It's the old "you gotta find fault someplace" game, and it always seems to come when the need is to create diversions away from your candidate because yours is lacking substance.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

I, personally, am not criticizing ANYONE on the fact that their daughter is pregnant. All I said is "it happens." I, in fact, pointed out that Senator Obama took the high road and said" Leave family out of it." I completely agree with him. Even though his own family and values have been attacked from day one.

My problem is not with Sarah Palin's daughter, my problem is with Sarah Palin. And no matter how the Karl Rove Machine spins this, this woman is not ready to be Vice President, much less ready to step in as President.

She's probably a very nice "hockey mom." But, again, choosing her speaks volumes about McCain's judgment. The impulsiveness of this judgment boggles the mind. That's MY opinion.

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Don't think for one minute that the great Obama took the high road for non other than personal reasons.
He cant mock a women who is giving birth at 17 and unwed because of his mother.
He doesn't want family brought up because of his brother who lives on $2 a week but yet has the audacity to say "I am my brothers keeper" at the DNC. ::)
He doesn't want anyone digging into the lives of a 17 year old. He himself got drunk many times and smoked lots of weed when he was 17 (this was published in HIS own book).

So there's the big secret on why the great Obama took the so called "High Road" ::)

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

And you may very well be right!

Conceding that, when one matches Gov. Palin's governmental record versus Sen. Obama's, where is that experiental difference between the two which makes Sen. Obama presently ready to be President now versus Gov. Palin now or at some later date? In the end, isn't is supposed to be about qualifications ?

Re: Sarah Palin! Again!
 

Are you sure that Obama's mom was a teen when he was born? I thought that both of his parents were attending the University of Hawaii. I could be wrong, unless my granddaughter took his book, I still have it, and will look it up.

I am in Politics again. OH Boy.