Obama wants you to report anything "fishy"
 

I cannot believe this. I have been outside most of the day today so I'm a little behind. Seems the White House want people to report anything "fishy" that is against the Health Care Debacle. Yes, if you see a video in your e-mail that is "fishy" send it to the white House.
Now, is this paranoid or what? Imagine if Bush asked the public to rat out your friends?

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/05/...out-obamacare/

Something fishy,eh? Well, I guess we're supposed to accept HR 3200 just "for the halibut!"

Am going to sleep tonite with visions of Eugene McCarthy and George Orwell in my head!

Guess the Prez wants to try and shut down email noise since he can't stop the "manufactured" raucus at local town hall meetings.

How come community organizer was a career to be aspired to when he got out of college and now the community organizers are evil because they are organizing the community to attend the town hall meetings?!

Does this guy think that only Republicans are against his healthcare program? Do ya think that the folks who run Ebony and Black Entertainment Television are enthusiastic about the impact this policy has on their business?

What will happen to me if I choose not to attend my "end of life counseling"?

Hey There!!
 

Wouldn't we all be better off spending our time trying to understand what those folks who were elected are planning to do re: healthcare than crafting zingers against some of the "electeds" as well as ourselves?

The 435 are there and they're going to do what they're going to do, at least until January, 2011. Wouldn't we all be better off trying to figure out what they're doing and why? Then, instead of zinging one another, send a communication to a few of the 435.

Just a thought...

I am really concerned about the mindset in the whitehouse....It doesn't seem to be normal.

Next, school kids will be told to rat on their parents.

Yoda

A member of the loyal opposition

Health Care Snitch Line....Sounds rather Orwellian, huh?
First they dismiss the Tea Parties and try to make fun of them.
Now they are calling the citizens "mobs"
Funny thing is that the biggest voices at the protests are democrats.
Will there be a backlash from the citizens? Is it wise to attack the American people?
With more people every day unemployed...the ranks of protesters could swell.

You may be very well correct VK, but in my opinion, this country is scared....terrified even of what is happening in Washington and there is nothing we can do until November 2010 ! That is reflected in the TOTV !

No. unfortunately, I've no problem at all handling both, especially since I sincerely fear they are interrelated. I am quite concerned about what the administration plans to do with the databases they will build from the Fishy Hotline at flag@whitehouse.gov. It's rather ingenious in that they'll collect info on the reporter (as a definite potential donor and possible ACORN recruit) as well as the sender/instigator and any other addressee (as potential troublemakers). Will the Administration automatically monitor electronic communications of these people?

I've never been a believer in great conspiracies, but when something looks like a duck, smells like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, even I eventually believe it may really be a duck. I don't know if Obama is the leader of this movement or just a figurehead/tool, but something is going on. And the aspect of this movement that scares me most is the instigators seem to feel no need to be subtle. In several instances, their strong-arm tactics have been overly blatant. Be it abrogating legal contracts to appease the public or to expedite corporate takeovers or threatening business execs that their lives would be destroyed unless they played along. it has made me more and more queasy. And woe be anyone who disagrees with this movement. With the able support of the MSM, the gov't in power did everything possible to denigrate those who unfortunately have become known as "tea *******" and are now viciously attacking anyone who dares to question the efficacy of the proposed health care bill.

Is it Obama? I don't know. Other than that he is a pretty good speaker with exceptional charisma, I really don't know much about him, what he believes, what he wants. As we've seen, he is remarkable with a prepared text, but tends to wander in free form discussion if forced off talking points. Is he a product of his handlers or is he genuine? I don't know.

Is it 1984 (or some would say 1933)? Hopefully not yet, but I am identifying more closely with Winston Smith, albeit sans Julia.

Hopefully I am overreacting. Little if any of this stuff will affect me, but if it does come to the fruition I fear, it could well destroy the America of mt great nephews and nieces.




`

Didn't something like go on in Europe about 70 years ago? Can't wait to get rid of these bums. :police::police:

The parallels are down right spooky, to say the least. This administration knows that their window of opportunity is getting smaller every day as more and more people are starting to come out of that weird spell they succumbed to last year. The antidote to this aberration will be the truth.

Good morning, Munc, when you said the following, just now, you pushed my Orwell button and I have a little something to say at the bottom of this.


(Munc said this)..........

No. unfortunately, I've no problem at all handling both, especially since I sincerely fear they are interrelated. I am quite concerned about what the administration plans to do with the databases they will build from the Fishy Hotline at flag@whitehouse.gov. It's rather ingenious in that they'll collect info on the reporter (as a definite potential donor and possible ACORN recruit) as well as the sender/instigator and any other addressee (as potential troublemakers). Will the Administration automatically monitor electronic communications of these people?

I've never been a believer in great conspiracies, but when something looks like a duck, smells like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, even I eventually believe it may really be a duck. I don't know if Obama is the leader of this movement or just a figurehead/tool, but something is going on. And the aspect of this movement that scares me most is the instigators seem to feel no need to be subtle. In several instances, their strong-arm tactics have been overly blatant. Be it abrogating legal contracts to appease the public or to expedite corporate takeovers or threatening business execs that their lives would be destroyed unless they played along. it has made me more and more queasy. And woe be anyone who disagrees with this movement. With the able support of the MSM, the gov't in power did everything possible to denigrate those who unfortunately have become known as "tea *******" and are now viciously attacking anyone who dares to question the efficacy of the proposed health care bill.

Is it Obama? I don't know. Other than that he is a pretty good speaker with exceptional charisma, I really don't know much about him, what he believes, what he wants. As we've seen, he is remarkable with a prepared text, but tends to wander in free form discussion if forced off talking points. Is he a product of his handlers or is he genuine? I don't know.

Is it 1984 (or some would say 1933)? Hopefully not yet, but I am identifying more closely with Winston Smith, albeit sans Julia.

Hopefully I am overreacting. Little if any of this stuff will affect me, but if it does come to the fruition I fear, it could well destroy the America of mt great nephews and nieces.


(That was Munc's quote. I forgot to grab it the other way.)

Hey Munc,

You pushed my Orwell button and you said so many things that I agree with. You know I never hold up those little "I agree" signs though. I have to use my own words.

Moderate me is scared, too.

And I think that 1984 book clubs need to be everywhere. Before they have to meet underground.

Where are America's leaders? Leaders with common sense and a commitment and the ability to solve our nation's problems?

We could have great discussion about Orwell. But where is Thomas Paine when we need him?

Oh Munc, do you think we are trapped in Room 101?

Boomer

"Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future." Saul Alinsky

Cabo, you just awakened something that I have been pondering for awhile. Your quote about letting go of the past is very interesting. It probably starts in our school system as they are teaching the young a version of history that is quite different then we were taught.
The culture of today is vastly different. The difference from right and wrong is more blurry today. Political correctness has stiffled real thought in this country. People must think twice before offending anybody. The moral compass is tilted.
What do our children learn in school. What passes for entertainment on our televisions that children watch daily and whose parents are too busy to supervise. The moral code of ethics is practically non-existing as children can watch adult entertainment at will.
Think of the television fare that the boomers were subjected to. Wagon Train always had good drama about right and wrong. Westerns always taught us about respect and moral issues. Kids now watch shows about sex and depravity and the line between right and wrong is very blurred. Patriotism is viewed with a distant quaintness and not thought of as a good quality.
The thing is...if you forget where you came from...how are you going to not make mistakes. History repeats itself...if you don't learn from it you will be doomed. Patriotism, freedom, individual rights are the backbone of this country.....are we turning into a bunch of fools???

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5YxkKvEUIU[/ame]





`

:a20::a20::a20: You have to laugh but there is truth mixed in there!!!!!

Quite A Guy
 

Even though Bucco thinks Alinsky is the Darth Vader of political activism, he sure got a lot of things right, didn't he? Whether those that oppose him want to admit it or not, virtually all politicians use his Rules For Radicals in their campaigning and even in their conduct after being elected almost every day.

Aren't we seeing one, or even several, of these rules being used by our 'electeds' in almost every soundbite or interview they produce? President Obama got elected using the Rules, even though John McCain used them too. Now the GOP is trying to use them to reverse the political tide. Check the Rules out once more and see if that's not right. http://vcn.bc.ca/citizens-handbook/rules.html

Why might Alibnsky's rules be so popular? Appealing to our emotions moreso than our intellect, do you think? It's sure easier to get a response that way. There's no doubt that the Rules work. No one has to even think.

For one, I'm trying as hard as I can to resist being manipulated.

Cute!

Vk So aren't the majority of Americans. There is a real fear out there. People may have looked at Jimmy Carter as incompetent and maybe were angry at him whether the situation was his fault or not, but they didn't fear him. I'm sorry if I offended anyone with the Carter comparison. I think deep down... he was a good man.

Interesting Read
 

This is an article and not a news source.
http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/?p=1794

Sometimes its hard to engage in debate when the premise of the argument keeps shifting. Your first argument seemed to suggest that we "passively" disengage from confrontation and debate and, spend "our time trying to understand what those folks who were elected are planning to do re: healthcare than crafting zingers against some of the "electeds" as well as ourselves?" The second argument suggests resistance to manipulation. Alinsky was the master of manipulation. Further, I don't believe emotion, passion and intellect are mutually exclusive.

The rules you seem to embrace may have worked well at another time in history. It is my opinion that quantum advances in communications technology will alter the dynamics. In time, those rules will be viewed as nothing more than shadows in history and but a footnote in the metamorphosis of governing. I am hopeful that the masses, by actively engaging in the debate and not sitting on the sidelines, will help our country get it right.

The "passive, non-challenging" tone of the post is further affirmed by, [I]"The 435 are there and they're going to do what they're going to do, at least until January, 2011. Wouldn't we all be better off trying to figure out what they're doing and why?" [/I] These words seem to reveal an acceptance of defeat and what destiny, Congress and Obama have in store for us. In the words of my favorite Roosevelt, please don't count me with "those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” I'm for victory.

The difference between us is that I'm not ready to throw in the towel and passively let ideologues from either side of the aisle use Alinskyesque manipulation including the perpetuation of lies, to achieve political reform. I'm not ready to abdicate the decision making process for my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to the government. I'm not ready to accept what the government has planned for me and my family by being polite, politically correct and passive. You cannot resist manipulation and distraction with passive acceptance and hope for change. But.....that's just me.

Yes, I've written letters to more than a few of the 435.

Thanks for the exercise.

:agree: Very well said. Have you ever wondered what happened to the fire in the belly of average Americans. That fire that inspired millions of ordinary people who traded the farm plow for a rifle to go over seas and fight oppression in the 1940's.What did they have that is lacking today?

Sending White House 'fishy' emails
 

When I heard this on the news this morning - The White House wants you to send them 'fishy' emails about the Healthcare Bill, along with the senders name - it brought to mind something from my high school history class (I'm only 52 yrs old). Hitler had his Hitler Youth Movement nark on family, friends, and neighbors who were against him. Maybe I'm being harsh here, but come on now. What happened to freedom of speech? Your right to choose what is right or wrong? Does the White House think that the American people are so STUPID that we need someone to hold our hand and tell us what to think?

We have sent an email to the White House giving them our name, address, phone, and email telling them to go ahead and start a file on us. God help them if they try anything on us, we'll have the US Government in court so fast it'll turn their head. For anyone who wants to do the same, it's: flag@whitehouse.gov

My husband and I figure that if enough people send them an email saying something similiar - they will stop it because it'll bring down the system. Having worked for MCI Conferencing I know that the servers can only handle so many emails/calls before it jams up the server.

As a disabled woman, who is going to be in the age bracket that is going to be under the microscope I look at passing the bill as it stands as a DEATH SENTENCE for me. I'm in the procress of increasing my life insurance so my husband will be taken care of.:cus:

Yes And No
 

Several 'yes's' and 'no's' in response to your post.

I think you're right--that passion, emotion and intellect aren't mutually exclusive. Where things get sideways is when 'intellect' is removed from the equation. That's how the politicians and their political advisors try to 'manage' the electorate--by avoiding a discussion of the facts and appealing always to the emotions of Americans. All I would say is that we should remain committed to being thoughtful about what is being said, seeking more information, and trying to avoid being emotionally manipulated.

I don't embrace Alinsky's Rules at all. But if I were a political advisor, I would definitely tell my client to use the Rules and I would create the sound bites and examples consistent with the Rules for my client to use. They worked in the 1930's and they work today. Virtually all politicians and candidates from both parties are using them. Basically, they're simple human psychology.

I disagree that communications technology will alter the effectiveness of Alinsky's Rules. Because of the ability to communicate so effectively and so quickly and in so many different ways, along with the 24-hour news cycle, the Rules may be even more effective than in the past.

I hope the electorate remains engaged and active as you do. The only reason I take the time to post in the forum isn't for the few people who active post, but rather the "lurkers" who I know are reading this stuff. If I can make my points with them, it would be worth the time and effort.

Like you, I am far, far from 'accepting defeat' and 'throwing in the towel'. I have said many times that what's needed is to replace the 435. But, other than writing to those elected to represent me and trying to convince the people who read these posts that they should really think about who they will vote for in future elections, I realize there is little I can do between now and November, 2010. That's far from lying back and accepting whatever comes down the road.

Careful Keedy, the lurkers will turn you in to the Obama "Snitch" squad at the White House. Can you believe a government that wants Americans to inform on other Americans who don't buy into the Obama agenda? Further, with unprecedented contempt for American history and those patriots who sacrificed for liberty and freedom, the people presently populating 1600 Pennsylvania have the audacity to have the "stool pigeons" email the White House directly at flag@whitehouse.gov I can see the tears of disbelief in the eyes of George Washington, Abe Lincoln, JFK and other caretakers of the People's House.

I wonder if there is a clandestine Black Ops Czar that's compiling a list of dissidents. Funny, I never thought of myself as a dissident before.

Damn....I think I hear those black helicopters again.

Since you mentioned me and while correct in a sense, a bit melodramatic !!

I believe to my core that our President was not simply aligned with Alinsky's Rules for Radicals but the ambitions that accompany them and there is a difference between that thrust and whatever of them are used by other politicians.

Secondly, not only was he aligned with the core and ambitions of Alinsky, ALL....I mean EVERY SINGLE BIT OF TRAINING HE RECEIVED was/is steeped in very extreme radicalism of some kind, not JUST Alinsky. The only time he served in any capactity without the extreme radical influence being the largest part of his life was MAYBE the 5 months, which by the way is the TOTAL, he served in congress.

It is not simply Alinsky's influence by itself...you called me (and Ben Stein) in another post which you said was very poorly researched by Stein and it concerned his Harvard years. I invite you to PLEASE read about his election there and the environment at the time at Harvard...the racial tensions which served him well, and then try to find out anything about his time there, like his grades, etc....you cant !!! The President will not allow that to be released to the public !

Sorry for the rant (it has been awhile) and I am trying hard to behave myself and not be confrontational, but this is what I felt before Iowa, and I have not changed one iota, in fact it has been reinforced.

It is not simply the shoving of a "stimulus" bill down our throats after saying he will NEVER sign a bill with "pork" and then to find out it was filled with it and was signed even though he knew nobody read it. It is the continual assault on everything...the total package. You may have forgotten the stimulus bill and the stuff that has happened but it is part of the package and to me not a surprising package at all.

You can ignore as you seem to his background...I cannot...and I will repeat what I said during the election...I will come on here and apologize daily if I am wrong, but I am NOT wrong. We are being totally ovewhelmed with EVERYTHING he said would NEVER happen....politics heavier than it has ever been....no transparency....and the list is endless and you and others still buy into this thing.

I am terrified for my country....there is nothing we can do. He will get a health bill because it is all political...does not matter what is in it..he does not care what is in it !

:beer3: My name is probably on the top of the "snitch List" . Remember those playing cards and we had a terrorist for every one in the deck? My picture is probably on the "Ace of Spades"....on the snitch deck.
Opppsssss Gotta go now...I think I hear those black helicopters circling around again....:crap2:

It is painfully clear.... Obama has picked the wrong fight. I figured he'd go down in 4 years.... but not 6 months. You have to wonder.... what's going through his mind now as he lays his head on his pillow each night and sees his numbers collapsing.

Sending in the Unions
 

Looks like they are going to send in the union thugs to confront angry patriots at the town hall meetings. Unions are paying back Obama for the neat auto bail-outs?

http://sistertoldjah.com/ ( note..this is not a news link)

The following article sums up the so called demonstrations:
 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...330098540.html

There was a clip on the news this morning asking if folks remember when Obama was running for POTUS....at one of his town hall meetings he said something to the effect....get in your neighbors face, tell them what you believe.....and now those who are doing so....are being called "manufactured"....a mob...

I think we may have finally found the cause celeb that is getting to we the people....they are finally seeing this is in my back yard....this IS going to affect ME....FINALLY....HOPEFULLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btk

Angry Patriots?
 

I've seen reports that many of the most vocal and disruptive attendees at the meetings have been hired and instructed on how to disrupt the meetings by lobbyists representing insurance and drug companies.

Whoever is disrupting the meetings are doing the public a diservice by interfering with the process of the public communicating with their elected representatives.

You sound like the mainstream media with their manufactured outrage. To belittle true patriots because of their outrage at the direction this country is heading, is cruel and unnecessary. It has been proven that these are just ordinary people.. not paid to be angry like the democrats are telling people.
The democrats should be ashamed. These are real legitimately unhappy people.... just like the Tea Party Patriots.

I guess it worked VK...I took your bait!!!
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08072009...ity_183409.htm

The Kahuna has it right.... why are people dedicated to mis-information.. just give it to us straight and you can make a decision ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. BUT in these times TOO many people just listen to sound bites from their favorite talking head and believe every word.

While I absolutely concur with your closing paragraph, I must ask if there is any proof of the assertions of these "reports" you reference. I've seen reports that Elvis is alive, the tooth fairy is real, and Nixon didn't know about Watergate. Especially in today's environment, one can get "reports" to support any wing-nut belief. Just tune into Hannity, Olbermann, Savage, or Maddow. If the host doesn't throw it out there, one of their guests or callers will.

However regardless of the kernel of the protests, one cannot help but smirk at the irony of an administration centered on a man who earned his chops organizing "spontaneous" protests and who endorsed in-your-face confrontations during his campaign now crying that their opponents are using their tactics and it's not fair.



`

Bucco, I couldn't have said it any better. It sure is ironic, huh?

What Was Important
 

No proof, Muncie. I can't even remember where I heard the report. It didn't surprise me when I did hear it.

But the last paragraph WAS the most important, as you noted.

I wouldn't go to a meeting held by Ginny Brown-Waite on this subject if she held one at Lake Sumter Landing, 10 minutes from my house. I "did my thing" by sending her and the two Senators an e-mail with my feelings on the needed healthcare reform. I know that my comments will be "check marked" on some report of constituent contacts, which is probably better than you could in communicating your feelings than at an unruly town hall meeting.

By the way, here were the items I listed as important to me in any healthcare reform legislation...

• Medical tort reform
• No reduction in Medicare funding
• Healthcare for 100% of American citizens
• No healthcare paid for or required from hospital ER's for anyone without citizenship documentation.
• A "government-provided" insurance option

I sure hope your right Bille, they can only try to dismiss them for so long before it becomes evident that these people are for real. Can you imagine the original Tea Party Patriots being called a "disruption"???????!!!!!!

Just My 2 Cents
 

From what is being said in the political threads just on this forum, looks like there would be plenty of UNPAID opposition if the town hall meetings were held here in TV.