Landscapers Parked in Cart Lane
 

What do you think?

Landscapers working in the back yard of a home that backs up to Gayle Mill Drive park their truck in the diamond lane on Gayle Mill for the entire day while they do their work.

What do you think? Illegal? Legal but inadvisable? Perfectly fine?

:thumbup: I'll take what's behind door #2

Door # 3. Not a big deal.

Perfectly fine.

I would suggest illegal. Vehicles are not supposed to cross the solid white line. And neither are carts, when trying to pass one another. (I almost took one out the other day when she pulled out right in front of me to pass a slower cart.)


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Ok, PB. I know you know the answer. What is it?


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This has zero to do with...
 

crossing a solid white line. Parking spaces have solid white lines....

Heheh. I don't know. My questions are honest ones just to have a discussion. Of course...as a career traffic engineer, I can give you my opinion. :)

The practice is highly inadvisable at the very least. And if it's not illegal, it should be.

The unique TV road system is not as clear-cut with respect to laws as a typical street/road system. (And I'm too lazy to research the legal specifics with respect to my question...heheh.) But the cart (diamond) lane is a vehicular traffic lane on a public facility. I would be surprised if it is not already illegal. It's very comparable imo to parking a commercial vehicle in the right lane of a typical 2-lanes-in-each-direction city street simply to do business. That would obviously be illegal.

Solid White Line
A solid white line marks the right edge of the roadway or separates lanes of traffic moving in the same direction. You may travel in the same direction on both sides of this line, but you should not cross the line unless you must do so to avoid a hazard.

my bold added. At least you clearly may cross the line to go around the parked landscapers.

Lane markings are defined and regulated by Federal rules, the latest being 2009

Page 370 2009 Edition
28 Solid white lane line markings may be used to separate through traffic lanes from auxiliary lanes, such as an added uphill truck lane or a preferential lane (see Section 3D.02).
29 Wide solid lane line markings may be used for greater emphasis.
Standard: 30 Where crossing the lane line markings is prohibited, the lane line markings shall consist of a solid double white line (see Figure 3B-12). bold added

Also see page 420 where there are drawings showing prohibited vs discouraged crossing markers.

Again, you may cross a solid single white line. Discouraged but not prohibited. I cannot find any rule specific to parking in the diamond lane.

Florida law 316.1945 has several parking prohibitions including:
9. On a bicycle path.

As the diamond lanes are also used as bicycle paths, this may or may not apply as they are not exclusively bicycle lanes. It also is not clear what the differentiation may be between a bicycle path and a bicycle lane.

If there is a general rule against parking on the main streets of the villages, I have never seen any posting of signage. Can you park on Morse? or Buena Vista? Parking is only prohibited
10. At any place where official traffic control devices prohibit stopping. [that means signs]

caveat... not a lawyer. When you get your ticket for parking on Morse, saying Blueash said it was okay will not work in court.

The U.S. Department of Transportation's Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices states that diamonds indicates a lane reserved for high-occupancy vehicles.

With all due respect, blueash, your post seems to focus on the legality of crossing various types of lane lines. That's a separate topic from whether or not it is legal to park in and totally block a lane designed to accommodate moving vehicular traffic.

Landscapers Parked in Cart Lane
 

So, the next time you park, keep your car between the solid white lines, not straddled over them.


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Wow. Must be a slow day. Probably the easiest place for them to park to access their job; let it be.

This is a pet peeve of mine. Parking in the cart lane creates a safety hazard, especially when the trailer sticks a foot or two out into the auto lane. It , in effect, can narrow 2 car lanes and 2 cart lanes into 1 cart lane and 1 1/2 car lanes, forcing more vehicles into proximity with each other,= formula for accidents.

Every one of those homes has a FRONT yard on a residential street where the landscapers can park. The only reason they park in the cart lane is LAZINESS, there is no NEED for them to park closer to the backyard. This is really no different than parking in the fire lane at a strip mall because it is more "convenient"

Landscapers Parked in Cart Lane
 

LAZINESS as well as the homeowners desire not to have them trample through the front and side yards.

Ya just have to safely go around them like you would any other obstruction.

You can't be serious. Park anywhere as long as it makes job access easier?!? :ohdear:

Read GE's post following yours.

You're right. The landscapers should safely go from their legal parking spot to the back yard, around the house like any other obstruction.

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

I applaud your reasoning. And your correct use of the contraction you're.:coolsmiley:

My response was directed at posting #5 which said

.

and attempting to show that it is not illegal to cross a solid line. And cogent to your initial post which asked if it was legal for the landscaper to park in the lane. Post #5 used the solid line argument to say that the landscaper's parking was illegal because of the solid line being crossed. That, so far, has been the only posting attempting to establish a legal argument against the landscaper. Several have posted arguments based on inconvenience or lack of consideration. I agree with those. I await someone pointing to a law that says they cannot park that way.

Since the cart lane is also a bicycle lane, perhaps this applies:

Florida Statutes 316.1945

(1) Except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic, or in compliance with law or the directions of a police officer or official traffic control device, no person shall:
(a) Stop, stand, or park a vehicle:

9. On a bicycle path.

It is not a bicycle path.
316.1995 Driving upon sidewalk or bicycle path.—
(1) Except as provided in s. 316.008 or s. 316.212(8), a person may not drive any vehicle other than by human power upon a bicycle path, sidewalk, or sidewalk area, except upon a permanent or duly authorized temporary driveway.

IF it is illegal to park the vehicle in the diamond lane behind the house, it would also be illegal to park on the smaller street in front of the house.

It is a common practice along Hillsbourogh.. They have access from the front but it is easier for them to break a non-enforced law. Last week, someone living near the gatehouse had a pool installed. The truck blocked the exit to the gate! Sumter Co Sherrif is the most impotent law enforcement department I've ever witnessed.

How on God's green Earth did you come to THAT conclusion?????

The cart lane, even if it is technically not a bicycle path, is there for carts and cycles to TRAVEL, separate from the auto traffic (most of the time). IT IS NOT A PARKING LOT

All that proves is that it is not EXCLUSIVELY a bicycle path

This is really what we worry about? How about just going around the vehicle. Very simple. Just like we do when a furniture delivery truck is stopped, or a FedEx or UPS truck. Really not a big deal. I've been in plenty of Villages where a contractor vehicle blocks a lane even when parked in front of the residence in which they're working. I for one am not going to lose any sleep or debate the legality of a landscaper parking along side the road.

I'm not worrying about it either, since I'll get around them (safely) without batting a eyelash. But there are residents driving both carts and cars that , well, lack certain driving skills. I just fear that they might get into and accident or cause one for someone else.

And the law that you quoted specifies a path that is exclusively for bicycles.

In that case, my bad, didn't read it carefully enough

Nope. Apples and oranges.

The diamond lane is a dedicated traffic lane. The outer part of local streets includes shoulder areas and are fine for parking.

I am convinced that the existence of the Diamond marked Path on the public roadway is the only thing in the scenario that is illegal.
It is not a HOV lane, nor is it a bicycle lane.
Diamond lane - Wikipedia

If you want to declare it to be "multimodal", then a whole new can of worms gets opened.
Village Community Development Districts

Nice research. Bike use is mentioned, but in the case of TV, there are signs on posts noting use of the lane for carts. I'm hardly an expert on traffic utilization, so what are you suggesting the diamond lanes in TV mean?


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For my two cents worth
 

I see you used to be from LI, Brooklyn and Staten Island.
Lived there, driven there, tried to find a parking spot there and for Staten Island must have been drunk when the planed???? the older sections. Having said that, we have some very interesting drivers here.

Far too many golf carts that have been modified to go beyond the LEGAL 20 MPH for an unregistered motorized vehicle. ARE THEY IN A HURRY TO RELAX?

The round a bouts-Brooklyn used to have them. They were all taken out. I don't expect it will happen here but, knowing the rules assumes that the other people on the road no only know the rules but will follow them. By the way it is legal to make a right turn from the left lane in a round a bout-IT IS ALSO A STUPID AND DANGEROUS THING TO DO. I've seen too many people do this and not even THINK to look and use a turn signal.

So much for my venting. PERHAPS, A SAFE DRIVING COURSE WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA. Since only safe drivers would take the course, perhaps it needs to be forced.

As to the original post-the guy with the truck doing a garden remodel. It is of course a pain in the butt. It sounds like he had no other choice. To be honest, I've only encountered one nasty worker in the Villages. These people realize that if they can't work in the villages it is virtually impossible to make a living. DO YOUR BEST TO THINK WHAT YOU WOULD DO IN HIS SHOES.

My dad, who taght me how to drive, passed away about 20 years ago but what he said is still with me-EXPECT THE PEOPLE AROUND YLU TO DO THE STUPIDEST THING BECAUSE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO
Oh, if you insist on driving in my blind spot you will find me drifting to your lane. I do have total control of my car I sometimes find I need to control yours as well. I will always protect my way around an accident AND YOU SHOULD ALSO.

When the landscapers need to get to a back yard to do a job (as they did mine) and you don't have enough space on either side of your home because of the close proximity to the neighbors landscaping (as both sides of my home is) for the landscapers to get their equipment back to do the job (as they had to do mine), then it has to be accessed somehow (as the landscapers did mine from the diamond lane on St. Charles).

My quote is above, so you don't have to scroll back
to re-read it; I just re-read mine again and I didn't see where I wrote they CAN park anywhere to access their job, I said it's PROBABLY the easiest place for them park to access their job.

GE has his own point of view, I have mine and you have yours. GE's home/lot is probably twice the size of mine and, if he's had landscaping done, probably had enough room on the sides for landscapers to drive to the back yard; unfortunately, I, along with numerous others, don't.

Such quibbling over semantics may seem like petty stuff, but to some, it's a necessity.

Again, just let it be..........

Sounds all well and good. And I sympathize...to a degree... with your situation.

But it doesn't change the fact that you can't block a thru traffic lane for an extended period to simply park to do contracted work. Picture it on a road like Odell or Rio Grande or many others. same exact road cross section we're talking about here.

Polite and Legal are often at odds.

Chapter 316 Section 1945 - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate


"If a driver can safely pass within the lane or by changing lanes, he is not being impeded."

Further clarification: 316.195 Additional parking regulations

More: 316.194 Stopping, standing or parking outside of municipalities

Interesting thoughts, however......
The overwhelming number of homes in TV do not back onto a road with a cart lane, most are interior lots that back onto 2 or 3 other homes, so they HAVE to access the backyard from the front.

As far as my lot goes, it is 70x110 so yours may be twice as large as mine. Both neighbors have hardscaped bedding walls, so there is very little room on either side. I'm having the property landscaped, including the backyard, in less than 2 weeks, so we'll see. Rear entry is not an option, unless the landscaper pays his greens fee and drives down a fairway.

Interestingly, my neighbor 2 houses down has the same size lot and spacing between homes, yet he put a pool in last year. Didn't notice what kind of heavy equipment they brought in there.

Lastly, can you imagine what kind of chaos there would be if a landscaper parked in the "diamond" lane on Morse Blvd. north of 466????. People feel it is already too narrow the way it is. Traffic would be backed up to LSL!!! (or to 441 the other way)

You would have to just "let it be", GE. :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: