Village ID card check a joke
 

Was in the neighborhood pool today when I saw someone checking ID cards. To my surprise I was told that they only check your card if you are not in the pool and sure enough that is what happened.

I may be stupid but I am not dumb. The way they keep non residents from using the pool is to only check the ID of people not using the pool. So, to not get caught using the pool without an ID, all you need to do is to be using the pool when they check. I am sure that there is a back story for this but as someone who writes security procedures for a living, this is ludicrous. :police:

I think the general consensus is that getting everyone out of the pool for 'id check' would make more residents mad than catch violators.

yup.

I have to agree with Gracie. I know how I would fee if that was something that they did.

The existing system makes sense to me.

Frankly, I really don't care if one or two people manage to sneak in and use our facilities. Even so, I understand it is the rule and, thus, should be enforced. So, I'm sort of with you, Vinny -- if they're going to check, they should have a system to check everyone -- not just the loungers. Maybe a card reader at each pool so that the gate won't open without an ID card since they really can't have someone be on duty at the pool on a continuous basis.

But as long as they check a lot then the law of averages would say that the non-residents will get caught 50% of the time. Or whatever time someone spends at the pool but not actually in the water.

You know what I'm trying to say:)

What section of the law of averages says that?

I think it is more like 90% - about the same as the time spent in the pool versus the time getting sun. And when they are caught they should be charged with trespass and taken directly to the Villages jail for a thirty day stay (paid for by villages amenities fees).



.

OK they get caught 10% of the time. But every time I've been to a pool there are plenty of people on the sides. Very seldom are there 9 out of 10 people in the water.

Two years ago they did make us get out and show an ID (in the Largo pool).

The point is: Do you really want them making an announcement that "OK everyone out of the pool while we check ID's"?


I know I don't.

The "Villages Jail"????? If only we had one. And if only Community Watch had the authority to do something - anything!

That's funny. I had visions of dozens of "Barney Fifes" running around yelling "Citizen's Arrest!!!"

Seriously, I think if they had maybe a little more authority, maybe it would be a tighter ship?

[pool punishment
 

maybe a 'dunking stool' for those that illegally enter the pool...
No, wait, that would be like suspending a kid for skipping school


Reminds us of a joke (Maybe Groucho?)

Guy goes to the beach that doesn't allow Jewish people
He says "I'm half Jewish, can I go in up to my waist?"

Though we own homes in TV, we have to trade in the card back and forth to renters frequently, and since we usually come to stay during the dog days when the pools are empty (the pool police can outnumber the guests) and hot as a bathtub, sometimes we don't have the card.
It would be nice to be able to prove we are not renegade seniors crashing the party.
Like a near-empty restaurant that encourages patrons to park in the front and seats them in the front window, it's 'better for business' to have people at the pool during the slower times.

We vote for a little flexibility from the pool cops and legislators.

L and L

I think the existing system is working fine. I don't think there is a serious "invader" problem. I've seen people get caught at the pool without IDs. Usually the offenders are sheepish Village residents who forgot to bring their IDs. Only once was it a visitor without a guest pass.

Dee's solution of a card reader at the entry gate is a good one. But I'm not sure the problem is large enough to justify the cost. And polite Villager residents would hold the gate open for others anyway!

Pool users
 

I would have no problem picking up the pool phone to call community watch to come by and check all ID's if I overheard that someone was bringing in people who do not belong at the pool that MY amenities pay for. Why should those from out side the Villages not have to pay? I also pray those good meaning souls (our villagers) who sit around trying to beat the system at our expense understand that to give an inch will soon be a mile. Should they also be allowed to use our other ammenities. Can I go to Spruce Creek and use their pools w/o showing some form of identity that I belong?

:confused:I don't really understand why some think it is ok for "occasional" outsiders to use our pools. If that's the case, why do we have to have an ID, period? Everyone screams bloody-murder when someone other than Villagers want to play golf on the executive courses but not about the pools. We pay for the pools with our ammenity fees just like we do for the rec centers and golf courses, so what's the difference? Those who pay extra for the country club pool privileges don't want the non-payers there either, even if they are Villagers. Why? Because those with memberships pay and expect others not to be there.

I don't know how many of you remember that Katie Belle's used to be open to anyone. When it got to the point that the Villagers could not get in because non-Villagers kept it filled, then it went to a private status for Villagers and their guests only. When the non-Villagers first started going there, it was no big deal, either.

Why wait until it is a big deal at the pools? Rules are rules and not just when you feel like it.

Yes but the main argument here is how to enforce them (the rules) at the pools? Not sure what the pools are like in the 'on' season but when I was there in mid-May they were almost deserted. Quite often we were alone or maybe 4-6 others. Tough to justify any money being spent on a non-issue. Your KB's example is a good one. When it became a problem they did something about it. Up to that point is wasn't worth the effort (or money).

Just my 2C.

I think checking ID cards leads to racial profiling and is unConstitutional.

What, I'm in the wrong forum.

Apparently the water in the pool is NOT the Kool Aid. :laugh:

:beer3:

:1rotfl: Good one!!!!

I'm still somewhat new here, but I did notice during the college spring break period the pools were very crowed with underage visitors (20 somethings) at the local neighborhood pool. Not me, but somebody must have complained, because it seems right after, the card checks started in earnest.

Maybe it was just a coincidence. As this is our first summer season here.

I would think that's something to complain about. If I saw a large influx of younger people at the over 30 pools - I'd voice my concerns as well. We have a mechanism in place to handle 'that' crowd. Go to the nearest family pool!

Get off of my lawn you... :)

Thought
 

What kind of message are young people getting when adults are willing to follow the rules only when:

1) something becomes a problem;
2) they agree with it;
3) it is convenient;
4) it doesn't conflict with what they want;
5) we don't want the grandkids to not like us (golf carts come to mind)?

Why set an age limit in the first place on certain pools if you only want it enforced if there gets to be a 'large influx of younger people'? What's the point of issuing ID's? And the list goes on.

Adults are supposed to be role models for young people. Isn't it about time to step up to the plate and do it instead of telling them one thing and doing another? I always tried to teach my kids to do the right thing because it is the right thing to do (didn't say I did it perfectly, but I did try). I fall flat on my face at times with the best of 'em. We're all human, but we can strive to do better.

Sure is hard sometimes, huh?

Let's assume we agree.

What would your suggestion be? And how would you propose to pay for it?

I don't mind complaints as long as someone offers a fully thought out suggestion.

OK, I seem to be missing something. Where did Blue say it was an over-30 pool that had the kids in it? A "neighborhood" pool could be any type of pool. I imagine the kids were checked to ensure they were actual guests of residents rather than local kids using the facilities.

There's no question that if someone under 30 uses the sports/adult pools, they'll be booted out quickly -- I've seen residents confront some of the kids in a sports pool rather than waiting for someone in authority to do their jobs. But the family pools are another issue. They do become crowded during spring/summer breaks and it is hard to figure out who is truly legitimate and who isn't. Seems like an attendant wouldn't be a bad idea during high usage times.

Another reason to have someone at the family pools is that parents and grandparents really don't supervise the kids very well. Sooner or later a kid is going to slip and get a concussion running and jumping into the pools. Someone needs to stop this. (A much bigger issue to me.)

Red - I agree that safety should be priority #1 in the family pools and we should do what we can to ensure it.

If the 'over 30' pools have a few 20+ somethings or a few 'outsiders' in there when there are only 10 other people in a 25 yard pool with 30 empty lounge chairs I'm not about to raise a stink - rule or no rule.

The ID check, like the gates are to deter only which is a good, nothing is 100%, well except maybe the Gold at Fort Knox!

Army Guy

Russ, just for a point here, didn't I read that you are going to, or you have, a pool at your house. How would you feel if you came home and just a "few outsiders" were enjoying your pool?

I think the point is, if society keeps excusing some infractions in rules and laws - and just by the law of physics - this disregard we mirror to our children keeps snowballing into a much larger disregard for rules.

You may not raise a stink. But when the system of rules and laws get spoiled by a few bad apples, it is still rotten for people who follow the rules.

I see your point but I think we need to target our efforts towards the infractions that really make a difference and leave resident TV'ers owners out in the cold.

Such as: I know that the few times that I've been to one of the sports pools to do laps (Seabreeze for example) I was asked for my ID. Same goes for when we went to play water VB or exec golf. I just don't think we have the resources to marshal all 50+ pools especially during the slower seasons.

Your statement kind of makes my point - It's easy, and not costly for others, for me to be my own marshal at my house.


We've had numerous conversations on this forum about 'today's' kids. Personally, maybe because I'm somewhat younger and have younger kids myself, I don't think today's kids are all that bad. Sure there are some rotten apples but for the most part I see lot's of personably responsible ones as well. There are hundreds of laws on the books that are never enforced and the reason they are not is called reasonableness.

Disagree
 

I still have to disagree with you, Russ. The point is...if adults ignore rules and/or tell kids they don't have to follow them except under certain conditions, then what is that teaching them? Is it going to kill anyone if younger than the age limit or an "occasional" outsider uses the pool? No. If it's ok with you that they come in (outsiders), then find a way for them to share in the cost. Those pools are not on any individual's property, but we do pay for them. I don't go to the pools, but I don't mind paying my ammenities fees which include the pools because I chose to live here. Many of the outsiders choose not to live here so they don't have that expense but want to use the ammenities anyway. How is that fair to those of us who do? You can personally control who comes into yours and that's as it should be. Why can we not reasonably expect the same thing from the Villages pools?

You asked for my solution....everyone do the right thing and teach their children to do the same. It's called taking responsibility. I don't care if it's not a candy bar in a store....it is still stealing (taking something that is not yours).

I hear you and agree but that's not really a solution we can implement as TV property owners is it?

It seems most of us agree that it is NOT okay:

• for outsiders without guest passes to use TV amenities.
• for TVers to allow their visitors to violate the rules.

The debate is about whether there is a better enforcement solution than the one in place-- one that would not punish TVers more than it helps us, either by forcing us out of the pools for ID checks or costing us an arm and a leg to catch very few violators.

An argument could be to made that outside violators should be charged with a misdeanor crime such as trespassing or theft of services. However, it's probably not practical, since CW are not law enforcement officers.

As for TVers allowing their young guests to break the rules, would it be practical to fine these TV residents with violating their covenent, as is done for other violations? I'm with Dillywho on this. I am offended by adults who act as poor role models for youngsters, and who allow young people in their charge to disobey the rules. Yes, maybe we all break rules ocassionally, but to teach young people to be liars and cheats is disgraceful.

I disagree that if you only check those outside the pool that you will eventually catch the violators under the assumption that they won't be in the pool all the time. It doesn't take a genius to break that system - since the ID checks take a fair amount of time, all a "perp" has to do is slip into the pool as soon as he/she sees a card check occurring.

What I don't understand is why they use the village ID card for pools. Why not use elastic bracelets with a small badge attached to it that all pool users must have on their wrists at all times? The residents would have a badge with their ID number on it and it would be a unique color (which possibly could change every year). Guests would be issued a different colored badge. When a resident picked up guest passes they could also pick up a corresponding number of pool badges but be required to put a $5-10 deposit on each one which would be returned once the guest badges are returned.

This way you could go to the pool and not have to take your wallet with your ID card in it with you, or have to take the ID card out of your wallet - and then have to remember to put it back after you come back from the pool. You would also be able to immediately see who is allowed to be in the pool and who is not, without forcing everyone to fumble through their wallet to find their ID card.

Just how big is the "problem".....just wondering?

Where to you start enforcing the rules . . . with one, ten, one hundred, one thousand people using amenities that do not belong to them?


.

I'm inclined to echo Bogie Shooter:

Is there really, really a problem????????????????

True, I hear it all the time, but are there really non-Villagers taking advantage of our amenities?

I assume that the answer is,"Yes." But, I also assume that the transgressions are minor, minor!

Am I wrong?

SWR
:beer3:

You understand I am not saying that they should or should not check ID. All I am saying is that if they are going to check then do it right. After all, we are paying for this so if it is just for show let's use the money for some thing else. Sometimes false security is worse than no security.

I think it would be a good idea to issue two cards per person. I carry my card in my wallet but do not take my wallet with me to the pool. Hard to carry in a speedo. :1rotfl: it is easy to forget to take it with you. Just the past few days I have heard people say that they left their ID in their other pocketbook, purse, wallet, etc. Just charge for the extra ID cards so only those with a need spy for them.

I have been to Katie Belle's twice and have never been asked for an ID or have seen them ask anyone else. When I first moved here I was surprised to find that the guard gates are mostly for show as they cannot stop anyone from entering. Found that out when I was waiting to close on my home and my brother-in-law would drive me here and when asked where he was going would respond with some off the wall place like the Villages' strip club, Seaworld, Empire State Building, etc. Each time he would receive a smile and be waved through. Each time he would turn to me and warn me not to be lulled into a false sense of security. Now were my cousin lives in NJ, you cannot get in unless the gate guard has been notified in advance or they are able to reach you by phone to get an OK. Two extremes. I did not like my cousin's system after I was denied entry to her BBQ party because she forgot to submit my name and could not hear her phone from her yard. I never visited her again.

If you don't like the rules...you don't have to play the game. When you break the rules, the rule followers, like me, get jealous. I'd love for my sons to join us when the pools not crowded but they are not of age. I'd love to have a float in the pool but if everyone breaks that rule, no room in the pool. Dang!

I don't think spot checking ID badges at the pools promotes a false sense of security. I think it just means that some, but not all, violators get caught.

How is that different from the way public roadways are patrolled? Most of the time, speeders and those who run stop lights, etc. are not caught. They merely run the risk of being caught. In areas where traffic violations are numerous and/or cause accidents or impede traffic flow, patrols tend to be increased. It's just a matter of putting limited resources where they will do the most good.

I'm not saying enforcement could not be improved. However, just because enforcement isn't perfect doesnt mean it's either unjustified or unhelpful. I'm glad that badges are at least spot checked.