Talk of The Villages Florida

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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   The "Stay Home Order" (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/stay-home-order-304844/)

sdedes 04-04-2020 09:09 AM

The "Stay Home Order"
 
The “Stay Home” orders are so the spread of the virus can be stopped Don’t be selfish, please STAY HOME!

billethkid 04-04-2020 09:35 AM

Also think about the very brutal consequence if you get the virus or aid in passing it onto someone........

once you are designated to be hospitalized you will no longer be able to see/visit loved ones.

The lady from Winifred who just recently passed away.....with a phone nearby communicating with family....how sad and terrible can that be.....

While hospitalization is not a death sentence.....one does not or will not know until you get released!!!!

Stay home and abide by the guidelines.....wear a mask if and when shopping....DON'T TOUCH YOUR FACE!!!!!!!

Challenger 04-04-2020 09:48 AM

And the Governor exempted Churches. Unfortunate Malfeasence

Email him and demand that he close churches

governorRon.Desantis@eog.myflorida.com

give you name and indicate that you live in TV.

billethkid 04-04-2020 10:26 AM

Political consequence is the top priority!

bagboy 04-04-2020 10:47 AM

Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.

Inexes@aol.com 04-04-2020 10:56 AM

I cannot, for the life of me, understand a need for local, state, national orders!!!!! Good Lord, people. We are supposed to be a reasonably intelligent group of adults! How can anyone not want to take action, without someone ordering same, to stay home, stay safe and try to avoid illness or death???? It just baffles me !!!!

Bogie Shooter 04-04-2020 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inexes@aol.com (Post 1740182)
I cannot, for the life of me, understand a need for local, state, national orders!!!!! Good Lord, people. We are supposed to be a reasonably intelligent group of adults! How can anyone not want to take action, without someone ordering same, to stay home, stay safe and try to avoid illness or death???? It just baffles me !!!!

Simple enough. Look at pictures of Florida beaches before orders were issued.

sdedes 04-04-2020 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagboy (Post 1740173)
Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.

This is not about politics and constitutional rights! It's about caring for your fellow humans and saving lives!

karostay 04-04-2020 11:25 AM

Sad humans have to lead around like dogs on a leash...Due to lack of common sense

Velvet 04-04-2020 11:49 AM

Some are used to it already, their dogs have been leading them on their walks for sometime now.

JGVillages 04-04-2020 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inexes@aol.com (Post 1740182)
I cannot, for the life of me, understand a need for local, state, national orders!!!!! Good Lord, people. We are supposed to be a reasonably intelligent group of adults! How can anyone not want to take action, without someone ordering same, to stay home, stay safe and try to avoid illness or death???? It just baffles me !!!!

Too many stupid people to rely on “reasonably intelligent”. We all need to comply to keep safe and unfortunately some of our rights will need adjustment because “you can’t fix stupid”.

junction29 04-04-2020 12:02 PM

Completely right
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sdedes (Post 1740190)
This is not about politics and constitutional rights! It's about caring for your fellow humans and saving lives!

People who go on about their constitutional rights are totally, but totally missing the point! 👿

These measures are not about YOU, they are to protect everyone and no one, rights or not, has the right to threaten the lives of their fellow citizens. 👿

bagboy 04-04-2020 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdedes (Post 1740190)
This is not about politics and constitutional rights! It's about caring for your fellow humans and saving lives!

As I stated, I disagree with people gathering, but a politician can't disregard the Constitution. I'm as compassionate and caring as alot of people. I'm just not willing to throw our govenor under the bus for not doing what you ask of him, because he cant. And I will add, because I see it coming, we stay home, we protect ourselves and others, we do not have the right to endanger anyone with our actions.

Challenger 04-04-2020 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagboy (Post 1740173)
Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.

Their rights must be modified, at least temporarily, when their actions can inflict substantial harm on other members of the society. When these misguided souls leave church , where might they go or work , the grocery store, the pharmacy, a medical facility, an elderly facility. Community spreading. By your reasoning there should be no speeding laws, no laws against DUI, no open burning laws, no laws dealing with "reckless endangerment".

bagboy 04-04-2020 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Challenger (Post 1740221)
Their rights must be modified, at least temporarily, when their actions can inflict substantial harm on other members of the society. When these misguided souls leavge church , where might they go or work , the grocery store, the pharmacy, a medical facility, an elderly facility. Community spreading. By your reasoning there should be no speeding laws, no laws against DUI, no open burning laws, no laws dealing with "reckless endangerment".

I responded to Your request to close the churches. This is not MY reasoning, this is a Constitutional right that should it be modified as you say, the consequences will be a years if not decades long court battle. You are going off half cocked by changing this one thing to speeding, dui, reckless endangerment, etc. Totally off point. If you think the churches should be closed, fine. Close them.

ffresh 04-04-2020 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Challenger (Post 1740113)
And the Governor exempted Churches. Unfortunate Malfeasence

Email him and demand that he close churches

governorRon.Desantis@eog.myflorida.com

give you name and indicate that you live in TV.

You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion :ohdear:

Fred

Challenger 04-04-2020 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffresh (Post 1740226)
You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion :ohdear:

Fred

I meant every word that I posted- Check with any of the Main line church groups. Catholic, Methodists, Presbyterian, Lutheran Episcopal , and you will find that their leaders have closed their churches while the Stay at Home orders are in force. Get on you knees , at home , or in your yard and pray to the God that serves you, I will defend that right to my death.

"None are so blind as those who WiLL not see"

Mikeod 04-04-2020 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagboy (Post 1740173)
Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.

There is no constitutional violation if the governor closes churches temporarily. He would not be banning a religion or establishing a state religion. He is using his authority to stop groups of more than a certain number from gathering in order to stop the spread of the virus as much as possible.

There is a current situation in CA where parishioners of a church have an inordinate number of positive virus tests due to assembling for worship and bible study. Who knows how many friends and neighbors they may have infected.

There is another thread on TOTV that describes the loss of a relative and illness of a spouse and nephew due to contracting the virus perhaps from a shopping trip.

It is for the good of all of us to not gather in groups, maintain social distancing, and sanitize ourselves and our environment as much as possible.

Challenger 04-04-2020 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagboy (Post 1740212)
As I stated, I disagree with people gathering, but a politician can't disregard the Constitution. I'm as compassionate and caring as alot of people. I'm just not willing to throw our govenor under the bus for not doing what you ask of him, because he cant. And I will add, because I see it coming, we stay home, we protect ourselves and others, we do not have the right to endanger anyone with our actions.

He most certainly can

sdedes 04-04-2020 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagboy (Post 1740225)
I responded to Your request to close the churches. This is not MY reasoning, this is a Constitutional right that should it be modified as you say, the consequences will be a years if not decades long court battle. You are going off half cocked by changing this one thing to speeding, dui, reckless endangerment, etc. Totally off point. If you think the churches should be closed, fine. Close them.

Seriously? This is not just happening to this country (where we have a written constitution). It's happening to the whole WORLD! The Constitution should morally be modified in situations such as this pandemic. I really don't believe GOD will mind if I worship him at home for a while in order to save my fellow brothers and sisters lives!

sdedes 04-04-2020 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junction29 (Post 1740210)
People who go on about their constitutional rights are totally, but totally missing the point! 👿

These measures are not about YOU, they are to protect everyone and no one, rights or not, has the right to threaten the lives of their fellow citizens. 👿

Agreed

Challenger 04-04-2020 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagboy (Post 1740173)
Some posters seem to think it's okay for a government official, in this case the govenor, to enact a freeze or ban or pause on citizens constitutional rights to freedom of religion. What would be next? One govenor bans freedom of the press, another bans citizens from speaking about the virus, another announces confiscation of weapons from homes during this dangerous crisis. Once the first ball drops, this violation of rights would never end.
Personally, I don't think any gathering of any group is okay, church or other. But if we want to spit in the face of our very, very smart founders and start violating whatever article or ammendment to the Constitution we deem disposable, this country is not going to be in a good place.

In case you have missed it, a majority of the Governors have already suspended a Constitutional Right . -- Lawful Assembly . They can and should in cases affecting the health and even the life of citizens . Death Toll this noon in US = 8000 and climbing.

Velvet 04-04-2020 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdedes (Post 1740236)
Seriously? This is not just happening to this country (where we have a written constitution). It's happening to the whole WORLD! The Constitution should morally be modified in situations such as this pandemic. I really don't believe GOD will mind if I worship him at home for a while in order to save my fellow brothers and sisters lives!

My understanding is that the Creator does not need a special building for anything in particular. It is people who take comfort from each other. The Creator is quite capable of helping you at home or anywhere else. Right now the only comfort you get from each other is that you can go in mass to the hospital.

sdedes 04-04-2020 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffresh (Post 1740226)
You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion :ohdear:

Fred

You can be passionate about your viewpoint without calling people names! Yes, we need all need God right now, but I don't think he will ind if we worship him from HOME for a while.

Two Bills 04-04-2020 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffresh (Post 1740226)
You are kidding I hope! People of faith know that in times like this, especially, is when God is needed most! I can't imagine this type of utterance coming from other than an atheist, secular humanist, or agnostic … NO scratch the agnostic, I don't believe even they would utter such a misguided suggestion. And, no, I am not "accusing" you of being in that classification - I don't really care - that's your prerogative. I just can't believe anyone of faith would utter such nonsense. If YOU are so afraid, why don't YOU just remain indoors for the duration and have all of your meals delivered. I can't help but, trying to be introspective, even if I felt as you do, I would be reticent to make such a suggestion :ohdear:

Fred

Your God caused all this if you are a believer, so what the heck are you praying for now?

Challenger 04-04-2020 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdedes (Post 1740247)
You can be passionate about your viewpoint without calling people names! Yes, we need all need God right now, but I don't think he will ind if we worship him from HOME for a while.

I really don't mind being called Atheist, Secular Humanist, or Agnostic. Puts me in the same boat with Albert Einstein, Bill Gates, Isaac Asimov, Johannes Brahms, and many millions more. The poster probably meant these terms to be pajorative digs , but I'm sure that his/her God will forgive .

Inexes@aol.com 04-04-2020 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 1740183)
Simple enough. Look at pictures of Florida beaches before orders were issued.

And therein, the problem.... if they were too stupid to stay home prior to the order..... they are most likely not going to obey the order....

ffresh 04-04-2020 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagboy (Post 1740225)
I responded to Your request to close the churches. This is not MY reasoning, this is a Constitutional right that should it be modified as you say, the consequences will be a years if not decades long court battle. You are going off half cocked by changing this one thing to speeding, dui, reckless endangerment, etc. Totally off point. If you think the churches should be closed, fine. Close them.

Bagboy, I agree with your sentiments, however, we part "ways" when you say, "If you think the churches should be closed, fine. Close them." Rather, IMO, … fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

Fred

Velvet 04-04-2020 02:02 PM

“Your God caused all this....” there is a difference between what God causes, and what He allows. That is a teaching. The teaching also says God (I hope you will allow me this reference) is the source of all good. So evil cannot emanate from Him.
But perhaps you know something the rest of us don’t.

ffresh 04-04-2020 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Challenger (Post 1740240)
In case you have missed it, a majority of the Governors have already suspended a Constitutional Right . -- Lawful Assembly . They can and should in cases affecting the health and even the life of citizens . Death Toll this noon in US = 8000 and climbing.

NO, you're wrong … only when Marshal Law has been declared - last I heard, it hasn't. And, even then, most Constitutional scholars would argue that declaration to be unconstitutional! Most would argue that Constitutional Rights cannot be suspended - and I would agree most fervently! Even if all 50 governors and POTUS were in alignment with that action, it would not necessarily make it constitutional … whether you believe it keeps you safe or not.

Fred

ffresh 04-04-2020 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeod (Post 1740232)
There is no constitutional violation if the governor closes churches temporarily. He would not be banning a religion or establishing a state religion. He is using his authority to stop groups of more than a certain number from gathering in order to stop the spread of the virus as much as possible.

There is a current situation in CA where parishioners of a church have an inordinate number of positive virus tests due to assembling for worship and bible study. Who knows how many friends and neighbors they may have infected.

There is another thread on TOTV that describes the loss of a relative and illness of a spouse and nephew due to contracting the virus perhaps from a shopping trip.

It is for the good of all of us to not gather in groups, maintain social distancing, and sanitize ourselves and our environment as much as possible.

Non sequitur … first, you state that the governor closing churches is not a constitutional violation and, from there, proceed to give pragmatic reasons why it should be done. When was the last time you opened a copy of the Florida Constitution:

Article IV, Florida Constitution - Ballotpedia

Article IV, Florida Constitution Section 1
(d) The governor shall have power to call out the militia to preserve the public peace, execute the laws of the state, suppress insurrection, or repel invasion.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't find anything in there about closing churches or Stay-at-Home orders - good idea or not - recommendations/advisories are far different from ordering any peaceful, law-abiding citizen to remain under house arrest!

Feel free, however, to remain under self-imposed lockdown until this blows over :icon_wink:

Fred

ffresh 04-04-2020 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by junction29
People who go on about their constitutional rights are totally, but totally missing the point! 👿

These measures are not about YOU, they are to protect everyone and no one, rights or not, has the right to threaten the lives of their fellow citizens. 👿


Quote:

Originally Posted by sdedes (Post 1740239)
Agreed

People who don't "go on about their Constitutional Rights", I would venture to say are missing the point and, unfortunately, for those of us who do have reverence for the Document, may assist in losing those rights (or many of them) for the rest of us, because of their lack of appreciation for what is entailed! :ohdear:

Fred

coffeebean 04-04-2020 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inexes@aol.com (Post 1740265)
And therein, the problem.... if they were too stupid to stay home prior to the order..... they are most likely not going to obey the order....

They couldn't even abide by the social distancing. It was shameful behavior from those spring breakers. Foolish kids who were clueless or just didn't care.

Challenger 04-04-2020 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffresh (Post 1740280)
Non sequitur … first, you state that the governor closing churches is not a constitutional violation and, from there, proceed to give pragmatic reasons why it should be done. When was the last time you opened a copy of the Florida Constitution:

Article IV, Florida Constitution - Ballotpedia

Article IV, Florida Constitution Section 1
(d) The governor shall have power to call out the militia to preserve the public peace, execute the laws of the state, suppress insurrection, or repel invasion.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't find anything in there about closing churches or Stay-at-Home orders - good idea or not - recommendations/advisories are far different from ordering any peaceful, law-abiding citizen to remain under house arrest!

Feel free, however, to remain under self-imposed lockdown until this blows over :icon_wink:

Fred

Supreme Court of the US --Employement Div., v Smith

States can use Police Powers to enforce orders to protect the health and safety of citizens . Such orders can be enforced if they are generally applied and not specically aimed at practices of the specific religious group

ffresh 04-04-2020 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdedes (Post 1740236)
Seriously? This is not just happening to this country (where we have a written constitution). It's happening to the whole WORLD! The Constitution should morally be modified in situations such as this pandemic. I really don't believe GOD will mind if I worship him at home for a while in order to save my fellow brothers and sisters lives!

"morally be modified" Please be kind enough to enlighten me as to what this even means. There is a process in place, I'm sure you realize, to amend the Constitution, although I'm not sure to which you are referring, state or federal. Are we to place arbitrary power in the hands of politicians to "morally" amend the Constitution as he/she sees fit? No thanks, I don't care to live under that type of government any more than I would care to be in a "high-stakes" card game where the rules are "morally modified" by anyone. Even though the "stakes" would be far less punitive :shocked:

Fred

Fred

JoMar 04-04-2020 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 1740183)
Simple enough. Look at pictures of Florida beaches before orders were issued.

Or at our pools

Polar Bear 04-04-2020 03:14 PM

Personally, in a health crisis like this, I think the government has the authority to prohibit gatherings such as at a church without denying anyone their freedom of religion. No constitutional amendment needed.

DianeM 04-04-2020 03:18 PM

The issue is not one of going to church or believing in God. The issue is whether it is morally or ethically appropriate for large groups of people to gather in an enclosed space given the ease this virus exhibits transferring from one to another. Worship is soothing but does not need a building to be achieved. Many religions are doing services on line. Not a bad idea. But as someone else said, you can worship without a service and anywhere.

bobbiw217@gmail.com 04-04-2020 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdedes (Post 1740091)
If you are one of those people who is not taking this virus seriously by staying home I implore you to stop, and think, not of yourself but of others. You may not be worried about getting the virus yourself but you do not realize that until this pandemic is over there are millions of people out there who are not able to get the treatments they need for other life threatening conditions, such as cancer.
It didn’t hit home for me either until a close family member, young in age, was diagnosed with a Stage III, very aggressive, cancer and went to the hospital for a meeting with an oncologist. Immediate treatment was discussed but subsequently canceled as a nurse, who contracted the virus through continued socialization with her friends, exposed my loved one and her doctors. They all had to go into home quarantine for 14 days. Surgery was later performed but further treatment (drug trial by infusion) was cancelled as they were exposed AGAIN, at the hospital, and put into quarantine for another 14 days! The cancer could spread during this time!
People, PLEASE, stop thinking the “Stay at home” orders are unwarranted. If you are healthy you most likely won’t get sick, but if you do you will probably get over it. But If you don’t stay home you are selfishly contributing to the death of many, and not just from the virus. The “Stay Home” orders are so the spread can be stopped, then people who have life threatening conditions can get treatment, and those who are vulnerable don’t get the virus. It’s not just about you. It’s about everyone. “I’m bored at home” means “I, and others, “ARE SAFE”! Don’t be selfish, please STAY HOME!

Same thing happened to me. So sorry for you. Best advice to give anyone is to stay at home if you really love someone. Don't be sorry later.

JoMar 04-04-2020 03:34 PM

As I understand the orders in other states as well as Florida the stay at home orders are not literal and you can go out to exercise, grocery and other shopping, medical and a few other things. The focus is on social distancing, hand washing and disinfecting. If the Churches can comply then I assume they will be open but evidently the Churches here (and other areas) in The Villages don't believe they can and have stopped services to protect their parishioners. If you don't fear this virus that's ok then do what makes you happy, just don't infringe on my space because I do fear this virus. If you think you know more than the CDC, Governors, Health organizations then follow your belief but don't infringe on my space because I do believe they know more than I do. Help keep me and others alive.


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