Well...well...well
 

So the “regular” flu in 1980 killed 80,000 Americans according to the CDC. And this is with 45% of the adult population having been vaccinated. So conservatively 50 million people vaccinated.

Did we shut down the country and destroy millions of people’s lives?

Nope.

With Coronavirus we have ZERO people vaccinated, and so far about 34,000 deaths, which the CDC is trying to inflate by counting people who die at home. If we apply that same logic to the 2018 flu deaths then you would be over 100,000 deaths from the “regular “ flu.

So it looks like we need to shut down the country every year, for at least 2 months, until we are all living in huts, or tents if you’re a camper.

There is a reason the word “sheeple” was invented...

The difference is there was a vaccine in 1980. There is none yet so without the extreme measures in place the death toll would likely (per medical experts) be in the millions while waiting for a CV vaccine. It’s a tough decision but how do you balance an extreme number of deaths to minimize the economic fallout when it has never been done before? They are trying. It’s easy to arm chair quarterback the first half of the game at halftime.

If I post anything about this post, I will be banned and maybe arrested.

You're right - it's not worth it. This specious argument has been beat to death in way too many threads already.

What an extremely ignorant post.



And what would be the death count without preventative actions taken.

[QUOTE=Laker;1749060]So the “regular” flu in 1980 killed 80,000 Americans according to the CDC. And this is with 45% of the adult population having been vaccinated. So conservatively 50 million people vaccinated.

Did we shut down the country and destroy millions of people’s lives?

Nope.

With Coronavirus we have ZERO people vaccinated, and so far about 34,000 deaths, which the CDC is trying to inflate by counting people who die at home. If we apply that same logic to the 2018 flu deaths then you would be over 100,000 deaths from the “regular “ flu.
:bigbow: A person with an open mind. "fudged numbers"

Then if that’s your belief maybe you should go shopping without a mask and gloves!there was 34200 from the flu in 2018-2019 get your facts straight!:MOJE_whot:

2018-2019

I meant 2018, all you doom-and-gloomers go back to hiding under your beds, don’t worry there will be another end-of-the-world crisis to come along that you can slurp up without a scintilla of intellectual skepticism.

The End-of-the World Club has been around for 2,000 years, and the same gullible type will be here for another 2,000 years, much to their consternation.

You are hereby cordially invited to visit the State House for an intimate luncheon for Ron DeSantis and 400 of his nearest and dearest friends and fellow beach-goers. A handshake and hug ceremony will commence before dessert.

I would ask for clarification of the original post. Does Laker stand by his statement that in 1980 or 2018 there were 80,000 flu deaths and we had a 45% vaccination coverage? If 2018, is 45% of adults in the US about 50 million?
Does Laker claim the CDC is inflating COVID deaths by including deaths where doctors and coroners did not list COVID as one of the factors in the death?
Does Laker claim that the CDC only included as a flu death one with a positive influenza test and where the death certificate listed Influenza as the primary cause of death?

I've never used the word "sheeple" Does it mean people who blindly accept lies and follow them as if they were as foolish as sheep showing no skills in critical thinking?

"CDC officials do not have exact counts of how many people die from flu each year. Flu is so common that not all flu cases are reported, and flu is not always listed on death certificates. So the CDC uses statistical models, which are periodically revised, to make estimates."

So maybe your Flu death rate is inflated too...

Don't confuse him with facts. Do note from your citation that the CDC estimates deaths from flu using a statistical model. It does NOT give a flu death rate based on the primary cause of death listed on a death certificate, nor whether influenza is even mentioned on a death certificate. It does not discard deaths at home and only use hospital deaths as its number. The CDC has a fairly strong network of reporting sites to give an estimate of how prevalent influenza is in a community. Part of the modeling is to see how much excess death occurs at the same time as influenza peaks. It is complex and is revised up to 2 years after the flu season as more data is received.

Any attempt to compare the methodology of estimating influenza related deaths to COVID related deaths needs to be based on looking at the differing methods being used. Nobody is hiding anything. All the models and data are available. Finding that information, learning about the subject, critical thinking, math, may be required to begin to understand the material. It is complex and I accept that some may not have been offered the opportunity to develop skills in those arenas. They are still fully entitled to express thoughts on the topics of the day, even complex issues.

[QUOTE=stan the man;1749101]Only 34,000 deaths because of Social Distancing. Your comparison is comparing apples to oranges.

Best reply ever.

Covid19 is much more infectious than flu so a different approach involving social distancing was needed. But we need to find a better way to fight such viruses rather than shutting down the economy. This will involve research and bringing our supply chains back to America as Trump has been doing since elected. Also, WHO has to be restructured as it is a China puppet now.

Covid-19 vs. Flu
 

I think your analysis is a little off. Almost every expert acknowledges that the deaths are well understated for Covid. The deaths recorded include only those tested and not any of the thousands that die at home without being tested. The numbers also do not include many nursing home deaths (yet) as they are so swamped they have not completed the paperwork yet.

Covid-19 vs. Flu
To clear up some of the confusion regarding annual flu deaths vs. Covid-19 deaths, here are some stats from the CDC.

Last year, the CDC had 34,200 deaths reported and attributed to the flu...that’s over a year but predominately during the defined flu season (Oct-May).

So far there have been 40,475 Covid-19 deaths since March....in just over a 6 weeks. On March 25th there were 1035 deaths reported.
39,000 people have died in less than 4 weeks! That’s 5000 more than last year's entire flu season.

Average Weekly Deaths:
Flu: 1005
Covid-19: 6745

Total Confirmed Cases:
Flu: 35.5 million
Covid-19: 760,000 (obviously way understated)

Death Rate:
Flu: .1%
Covid-19: 5.3% (way overstated based on lack of tests)

Let's hope the total Covid-19 deaths top out at no more than the 60,000 forecasted. You can do the math, Covid-19 is nothing like the flu.

Check out the link for more details.
Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season | CDC

Home Deaths
 

It would clear up some of the confusion in this discussion if amature home-made deaths were not permitted.

Educate me
 

In NYC last year there was an average of 20 to 25 home deaths per day. Two weeks ago NYC was averaging 200 home deaths per day. To what do you attribute the difference?

You! Can be the next statistic. I won't be. I am home .

The sign of intelligence is that you are constantly wondering. Idiots are always dead sure about everything they are doing in their life...

Just maybe
 

Maybe the Government can create a Pandemic Response Division of the National Security Council to work on ideas for the next virus.

Just read about the pandemic of 1918 and see if you want to go through that again. Then spout your ignorance about numbers.

As a reminder, please address your posts to the topic/discussion and not at the person making a post. These are trying times, but, we really are trying to maintain some civility on TOTV.

Discuss the post and not the poster!!!

Moderator

I have seen ranges of deaths from the ordinary flu ranging from 24,000 to 80,000 per flu season. The models used for corona virus originally came in at about 100,000 to 240,000 deaths. How can anyone trust any of these models? They cannot be used because they really do not know.

The author of this post obviously does not realize that the COVID-19 is much more contagious, and DEADLY, than a garden variety flu strain and that can be contained to some degree by the yearly flu vaccine always offered.

And, 1 year earlier, it was 61,000 - 2017-2018. Keep in mind, getting a flu shot does not mean you will not get the flu, since they swag which flu will be active and have a 50% accuracy rate as to which flu will appear. The 61,000 figure was with vaccinations and 45,000,000 still contracted the flu. The numbers being bandied about now are pretty much useless and create undue panic. The "experts" have no clue as to the total number infected, how many survived and how many are now immune. The lack of testing has crippled the models as is being shown now by large drops in mortality rates as the numbers are updated. The snarky comments seen on this site are not taking into account those out without masks may very well have been survivors and are not capable of transmitting the virus. Acquiring masks is difficult at this time, even for front line health workers. Keep your distance and practice good sanitary procedures when you come home from shopping.

He said 1980!
 

Not 2018-2019

Yea, why don't you go and volunteer at the hospital without protection

Flu vs Covid
 

Has the flu ever flooded our hospitals and ERs like this? Your thoughts are flawed.

There was a pandemic response division...Trump got rid of it in 2018

If the best way to fight this virus Is a “stay-home, close businesses” plan - then why after this amount of time are the daily numbers of new cases / deaths still rising?
Are jobs and in some cases irreversible economic loss being sacrificed for a realistically uncontrollable scenario?

How long will it be before we see T-shirts that say, "I've had Covid-19. I can NOT infect you".

GG, while that is really funny, it is probably also true! :)

Hers a January of 2018 story from Time.

Hospitals Overwhelmed by Flu Patients Are Treating Them in Tents | Time

The media didn’t gin up the fear and panic as much as now. That’s not to say that this shouldn’t be taken seriously. As I’ve mentioned on other threads, the Wuhan virus is deadly serious for approximately 4% of those who contract. There’s an added level of anxiety since we have no vaccine, but the fact still remains that approximately 96% of cases are classified as “mild”, and 98% of cases recover.

I look very skeptically at conspiracy theories, but I can’t help but think that there is a lot we aren’t being told and that sinister political posturing games are being played by everyone involved.

Over 40,000 deaths now

We will probably get a vacine for COVID-19, too bad we haven't found a vacine for ignorance and stupidy.

And the New Stanford study reinforces the folly by government. Showing that it’s not 3%. It’s 1/10 of one percent. Wow.

Are numbers of deaths still rising? I keep hearing the curve is flattening, including NYC. As for the increase in numbers of cases, that is a given with more and more testing being done. There are many asymptomatic cases out there that we don't even know about. More testing = more positive results, including those who are asymptomatic.

Fauci and Gates have a vested interest in vaccines for Covid-19 (aka SARS-CoV-2). They stand to make $billions. The MSM is lying to you. Look on line, e.g. Paul Craig Roberts.

“When your business priority is profiting from disease rather than achieving/maintaining health, then events like pandemics become your ‘business partners’ and vibrant health becomes an enemy or evil.” ~ Darzoum