Southern heritage.
 

Born and raised in the South and a proud American. Have lived in four Southern States except for my time serving my Country (AL, GA, TX, FL) in my 74.5 years. My ancestors including my great, great grandfather fought in the Civil War for the South and two of his brothers died defending Atlanta. That is part of my family history and I will never give up my Southern heritage, my Southern accent or my love of Southern food and all the great places in the South. I fought with all races, colors in Vietnam and never really had a problem. They were all brothers to me. We can tear down all the statues we want, change all the names we want but I will never be ashamed of my family or being from the South. You can change "things or objects" but you cannot change the history. It is what it is! Blast away! :boom:

Today, instead of burning books that don't fit the narrative, they tear down statues and just quietly remove history books from public schools. Kind of reminiscent of Nazi Germany, the USSR, Cuba, etc. Now, street names and monuments also have to be removed or changed. Who's scared of the truth? If we erase the truth, does that mean that it did not happen? Oh well, if they wish to remove reminders of what happened, some will no longer have an excuse.....a crutch for failure.

All I would say is thank you for your service to our country.

If they want to burn something go back to 70's and burn their Bras.
Then will have something to look forward too...:eek:

amen, change,,, all our blood was the same color

I wonder how much it would cost a company like Winn-Dixie to rebrand if they decided to change their name

I personally don’t have a problem with a statue honoring the common Confederate soldier but all the political and military statues of there leaders should be taken down and put in museums , I have felt this way since high school history.Robert E Lee and Jefferson Davis should have been hung as traitors, walk through any graveyard in New York was that England and see the names of the dead to realize what carnage they caused to preserve away of life that so few profited from

I meant walk
 

though any graveyard in New England

History History History at times its not pretty We can't change it. By golly we can learn from it...I don't see that happening sadly

So as I read the OP, he seems to be saying he has no objection to removing statues which in full Confederate regalia, honor those whose fought against the United States and in support of a regime that in its Constitution and the statements of its leaders was formed to protect slavery.

If I were a grandchild of a person who fought for Germany in the 1930's I could well be proud of the courage with which my grandfather fought. If I were the son of a suicide bomber who came out of the Palestinian camps in Gaza I could well be proud of his courage in support of my people against what I honestly believed was intolerable oppression.

But I would not expect the people of France to erect a statue in Paris honoring the Nazi cause or to name a street or a military base in honor of Goering.

Somehow the Israelis have resisted the temptation to put up a nice statue of Arafat in Jerusalem. No one questions the courage or the sincerity of conviction of those who fought for the enemy.

You won't see any General Custer statues on Native lands. You don't see any monuments to General Sherman anywhere in the South. No statues, no street names, no college buildings with his name.

So don't tell me that statues and namings are simply a reflection of history. They are a reflection of support for the ideals fought for by those honored. The Confederacy was built on the promise of the continuation of Slavery. Period. Its constitution which so many think promoted "States Rights" in fact did not. It said that no state in the Confederacy could abolish slavery. It was the unassailable requirement for participation in the CSA.

Remember the words of George Wallace 100 years after the Civil War. Words which reflected his view of how the nation needed to be, how he saw the mixing of black and white people, how the South and much of the North still felt in the 1960's not the 1860's.

In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.

That is a concise summary of Wallace's platform. Just substitute the world slavery for segregation and you have the summary of the bedrock of the Confederacy. Is that a political system which we should be honoring in the USA? Is that something that just maybe a black person might find offensive? Those are not beautiful statues honoring our history. They are statues honoring those who fought to defend to the death the horrible horrible enslavement of humans.

Please read the "cornerstone" speech given by the VP of the CSA. He explains that the founders of the USA, and refers to Jefferson, all believed that slavery was wrong but were unable to find a way to eliminate it.

He admits that slavery was viewed as evil by the USA but, as he goes on to explain, they were wrong.

This is a concise and very clear statement that the CSA was formed to continue slavery. That the view of those who flew the stars and bars was that it was a moral truth that the negro was an inferior whose natural place was to be subordinate to the white race.

To say that a moral person, black, brown, or white should not find that "truth" extremely offensive astounds me. And to believe that anywhere there should be a statue celebrating people for whom that "truth" was a foundational piece of their belief is no different from honoring those who believed Jews were less than human. Maybe even worse because the Nazis didn't fight for the right to kill Jews. They fought for German economic superiority and the sincerely held belief in Aryan superiority. We don't lionize the German soldier nor the German generals with statues.

Be proud of your southern heritage. But if you are proud of the Confederacy and the deplorable bedrock upon which it was built ...

:bigbow:

Absolutely NAILED IT! :boom:

:bigbow:

This is our family ancestor who won the Congressional Medal of Honor .

Remembering Medal of Honor recipient Charles Schorn - Gallipolis Daily Tribune

Uh-oh! Here in TV, that would be an image hard to erase from the mind.

First thank you for your service to defend the freedoms of this great country. Will say that I fully agree with you as a lifelong southerner. Was taught from the day I can remember that we are part of the human race and nothing else. Treat all people as you would like to be treated. That is what I have done and have nothing to be ashamed of doing in my life. How about we eliminate all statues, street names, park names and anything to do with any living human being because we are all flawed and have issues. Stop putting normal human beings on pedestals, they all have flaws.

They are real...and they are not spectacular :)

or down upon...

Before his death Wallace denounced all of his prior leanings toward segregation and apologized. Perhaps you are not aware that at the start of the war only one in twenty Confederates owned any slaves. Perhaps you are not aware that according to the majority of historians the Confederates and Union soldiers interpreted the heritage of 1776 in different ways. Confederates professed to fight for liberty and independence from a too radical government. Union solders fought to preserve. At the start of the war my great, great. great grandfather had nine slaves. When the war started and three of his sons went off to fight and die he released all nine. I have the records. One slave named "Granville" elected to stay with my grandfather until he died. I have a poem that Granville wrote about life on that farm. It was a different time and different circumstances. Also many of the Northern officers came from slave owning family's. George Washington himself owned slaves but liberated all. Thomas Jefferson fathered a slave child.

Myths About Slavery (click here)

Glad you know how to "google" and get one opinion. Read some books on how the war started and what caused it. It had just as much to do with the election of Lincoln, the rights of the States. The government we founded was a federation. That is a central government with smaller ones who have rights and control of their on. Otherwise we would be a unitarian government. (I think I have heard this recently when it came to the virus).

Just rename everything that offends you. Replace every statue with a pacifier statue.

History is the past and the past is dead, the future not yet. We only have now. Is what is occurring about statues, I think not. The pandemic put people on edge. An opportunity to start something and it worked.

I agree.
It started with book burning. Went on to union school boards deciding what is being taught to re- write history, only teach what they feel relevant, instead of whole truth and now it’s Ruining statues. Looks like they are winning the fight they started, while the sheep lay silent. Protests are now riots and terrorists.
Honestly, if “YOU are one of them” out there and you think this will change my thoughts- you are wrong.
You are not a human that I value if you do these harmful things including detaining people against their will for no reason except that a skin color is the reason.
Peaceful demonstrations and peaceful protests with no harm to things or beings- I will listen and hear you out then. You will only be heard from me this way.
“You” is meant in a general person way, as a verb, not a noun directly at this person(s) in the thread.

I tried to explain this in a thread a couple of months back, and as always it falls on deaf ears to people that have tunnel vision. Slavery was not the main reason for the start of the Civil War.

Steve

Dust your great granddads jacket off..Just may need it

So Steve, should I take your opinion as to the cause of the Civil war filtered through your point of view as accurate, or should I believe the actual words of the people who led the succession and explained very clearly why the slave owning states acted? Your word or the words in the acts of the state legislatures explaining their actions? Your word or the word of the newspaper editorials and stories written at the time explaining why the election of Lincoln was a problem? Why the term "Black Republican" was so commonly used to describe Lincoln and his supporters?

Just for your education go to the Library of Congress website and use as your search terms abolition and Lincoln or slavery and Lincoln and your date range from late summer 1860 to Jan 1861 and read the newspapers being printed at the time. The only states right issue was the right of the states to own slaves and to enforce the fugitive slave act. There were some minor issues with tariffs but nothing that couldn't be worked out peacefully. It was only with the election of that "Black Republican" who would use the force of the federal government to interfere in the "peculiar institution" that triggered the war.

Do not fall for the revision of history pushed by the Southern apologists and the Klan. Read the original sources. Read the words of those who were the thought leaders, the political leaders and the military leaders of the South. You can post your thoughts about what caused the war as often as you'd like.

Search Results << Chronicling America << Library of Congress

Search Results << Chronicling America << Library of Congress

you want to read the proof that virulent racism wasn't just found in the South? Read this page from the NY Herald from early Nov 1860 Full of what will happen if Lincoln wins.. Negroes will get to vote. Like Mohomadens they will be privileged to take into their arms the fair Caucasian women of NYC. That the Black Republicans want to abolish the Army and Navy so that the slaves can revolt, that white people will lose jobs to freed slaves.

It is a real eye opener. Not one comment on tariffs. Everything on the page pleading for a vote against Lincoln is about Negroes. Now tell me again about how slavery was not the issue of the day.

There are parts of our heritage that we can be proud of and other parts that we aren’t proud of. We don’t need statues celebrating portions of our heritage that are horrific reminders of someone else's heritage.

QUOTE=TimeForChange;1788457]Born and raised in the South and a proud American. Have lived in four Southern States except for my time serving my Country (AL, GA, TX, FL) in my 74.5 years. My ancestors including my great, great grandfather fought in the Civil War for the South and two of his brothers died defending Atlanta. That is part of my family history and I will never give up my Southern heritage, my Southern accent or my love of Southern food and all the great places in the South. I fought with all races, colors in Vietnam and never really had a problem. They were all brothers to me. We can tear down all the statues we want, change all the names we want but I will never be ashamed of my family or being from the South. You can change "things or objects" but you cannot change the history. It is what it is! Blast away! :boom:[/QUOTE]

Excellent response and I agree wholeheartedly!

"What led to the outbreak of the bloodiest conflict in the history of North America?

A common explanation is that the Civil War was fought over the MORAL issue of slavery.

In fact, it was the ECONOMICS of slavery and POLITICAL CONTROL of that system that was CENTRAL to the conflict.

A key issue was STATE'S RIGHTS."

Causes Of The Civil War | History Detectives | PBS

I never said slavery wasn't an issue, it started with States rights, and slavery was part of the rights southern states were fighting for. A technicality for sure, but gets overlooked and ignored.
I can post link after link that says the same as above. I think I did that when this subject came up months ago.

I'm not going to get into this again.

Steve

The pyramids were built by slaves. Are they to be torn down too?

As for the North being more egalitarian, just look at the hatred that bussing children engendered.

And now thay have taken down the statues of Grant and Francis Scott Key because he owned slaves. Streets will be renamed, towns will be renamed. Universities will be renamed. Battlefields will be turned into parking lots and those that sacrificed their lives for what they believed in will be lost in vain. It's so easy for us to judge through what we learned yet none of us have a clue what it was like to live in that moment.

Well since you bought up Bubba Wallace

YouTube

Steve

One person on YouTube, who the racists will love, is saying that Wallace couldn't be be hated for his black skin...because he wasn't completely black?

You really think racists don't still believe in the..."one drop rule?" :oops:

Click Here

Do you have any idea, how many "good old boy fans/employees" are livid.... that NASCAR banned confederate flags this week?

Across the street at Talladega, the best selling items at vendors tents were...confederate flags.

Not to mention that cleaning crews, other team's crews, etc...have access to the garage area.

Quite frankly, it is constant attempts like these by certain folks on ANY incident of racism and where there hasn't been a single post in recognizing racism against blacks...that just proves how badly things still are and needs to be changed. :ohdear:

At least his fellow competitors and other crews...are willing to acknowledge it and support him. :ho:

What you say holds absolutely no water with me.
Call me anything you want.
I'm good.
Steve

On THAT...I have no doubt. ;)

I don't know Bubba Wallace and I feel sorry that he found a noose. I hope someone who was not at all racist didn't put it there to further make a point. I am not black, I can't know how it is to live with the terrible injustices of being treated badly because of my race. I am white and I do understand that the poster known to us as "Time for Change" has all of the feelings and warmth and good connections that we all do with the place of our birth and early life. In Ohio, in School we sang a lot of folk music like "Dixie" and never, ever connected any of it to slavery. When we paint with a broad brush, no matter what it is, we get paint on things we really didn't want to paint.

Anyone can see that some posters are way past being mad. Anyone can see that there are a lot of people who have never harmed another soul who are being chastised for something that isn't their fault. It is so wrong to group people together and think they are all flawed. Two wrongs don't make a right. You shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. I feel a reverse prejudice against all country people from city people here. Hating is wrong no matter who does it. It hurts all people.

Great link.

Education and increasing knowledge is always...a good thing. :thumbup: