Drank the Geritol and Dipped the Toe in the Fountain
 

I didn't want to get off topic again on the thread in the new members forum, but I gotta speak my piece.

I do flinch when I see that phrase. I lost two friends and their families, including a precious 5 YO that I babysat and a 17 YO that I taught to drive, at Jonestown. It was pretty near impossible to not know someone who died there if you lived in San Francisco during that time. So, yes, saying you drank the Kool Aid (or however you want to spell it) is painful.

One writer, whom I personally know and respect, stated it was okay because it brought back memories of his childhood when drinking the stuff was a treat. I can remember a candy that had a cream filling and chocolate cover that I was told was an "N-word" toe. I have no idea what the real name is but I can guarantee you that if I saw that candy today there is no way on God's green earth I would call it by the name I learned. Times do make things of the past unacceptable today. I don't think this phrase is quite in that category, but some sensitivity would be nice.

As to the other poster who felt he had to make a point by capitalizing and repeating the phrase, not sure what to say. You had a point and I guess you made it -- other people's feelings be damned, you were going to say what you wanted.

When I meet someone in person and they use that phrase, I ask them as nicely as possible to not use that phrase because it does bring back some very painful memories. Not because the phrase is wrong, it is just a personal pain to me. I really don't consider the F word all that objectionable and do use it. However, if someone says they find it objectionable, I do my best to respect their wishes and try not use it around them.

So, use the phrase if you wish, but do understand that it is a painful reminder for some of us. The connotation to an innocent childhood were lost when it became a means for mass suicide and murder.

This is another view on that.
 

Redwitch. I am sorry you associate the phrase "drinking the Koolaid" with Guyana and the friends that you lost in that awful situation.

I really do not think most people associate it in quite the same way. I know people who use it and they are sensitive, intelligent and kind.

I saw another posting a few days ago by a new person here who said much the same thing as you did about associating it with a personal loss.

Sometimes we just need to ignore things that bring a personal ouch. I have a few myself. We all do. I won't name them. No use ouching on purpose.

I have found that most people mean well and do not mean to cause harm or even associate it with that event at all.

Well said Gracie.

Times do change and I try to go with the flow but sometimes I get a little annoyed at the "food police" "word police" "thought police", "sensitivity police" etc. etc. I can get confusing at times.

Gracie, I wouldn't have said a word but for the replies made by others. It's a bunch of words and I can live with hearing them. I don't like it, but, then, I don't like when a bicyclist doesn't stop at a stop sign. That doesn't mean either is okay. However, some sensitivity to other peoples' feelings would be appreciated.

One poster did a gentle reminder that a term is objectionable to others. One replied that it was a positive phrase in his mind because of childhood memories. The other reply was just downright obnoxious IMO. That's why I did this post. It isn't about the phrase so much as an apparent disrespect of others' feelings by deliberately using a phrase (repeatedly and in capital letters) that someone has pointed out is painful and objectionable to others.

Don't drink the Kool Aid
 

In reference to the Jonestown mass suicide the phrase "Don't drink the Kool Aid" is the appropriate term. Here is a link that pretty much covers the meanings: http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...k+the+kool-aid

Instead of "I drank the Kool-Aid" people could just say "I drank the K-word."
It could join the F-word, the N-word, and the C-word. The R-word hasn't quite caught on yet.

There... glad to help.

Alright, someone has to swallow the bait. What is the "R" word?:read: (ridiculous?)

Absence of Malice
 

Couldn't agree more with gracie...otherwise we'd all be carrying lists around with us for each person we know, so as not to say those "certain" words that might offend them...if a "friend" has the insensitivity to repeatedly blurt something into your face that they know is hurtful or offensive to you...well that's not really a friend at all...is it. Events or words are bound to come up in the course of our lives that stir painful/unpleasant memories; unless one chooses to live in a bubble...that's life.

Sorry about your connection to the Jonestown tragedy...good luck in finding ways to deal with this ongoing personal sensitivity. :wave:

Think Special Olympics, and the cruel name for people with special needs.

http://www.r-word.org/

i agree with gg, ignore the posts you don't like and move on, posting additional comments only perpetuates it...gn

redwitch ~~
 

I really agree with you and don't understand how that phrase came to be connected with falling in love with TV. Those who drank the KA in Jonestown died ! It was mass murder and nothing else.

:agree:

I too agree w/Gracie. When people are speaking, you need to realize their . INTENT. Their intention was NOT to hurt your personally, nor offend anyone.

I too am sorry for your loss, but must we all be so politically correct one hundred percent of the time? If so, I am afraid I will fail miserably.

Did you know that experts believe that the innocent little nursery rhyme Ring Around the Rosie is about the The Black Death or bubonic plague outbreak that killed more people than any other single pandemic in human history. Some 75–200 million people died as a result of this rosy rash and the bodies were usually burnt to ashes...ashes, we all fall down.

Did you know the term, which I really don't like btw, poor white trash was something started by slaves? In Harriet Beecher Stowe's book A Key to Uncle Tom's Cabin, there is a chapter called "Poor White Trash." At the time, the phrase was a political statement about the plantation system and how it caused poverty to both blacks and whites who worked the fields.

I think it is all excellent examples of how our language evolves and adapts. Just an observation.

CIB, one thing I'm sure of is the phrase drinking the Kool Aid did not come to be connected with falling in love with TV because of Jonestown...gn

There Must Be Something in the Water!!
 

I've always heard the phrase "there must be something in the water" in cases where lots of people are drawn to or are in the same situation. For example, if several women in an office are pregnant at the same time, or if lots of people act silly . . . people tend to say, "well, there must be something in the water".

It's true that the saying "Don't drink the Kool-Aid" originated from the Jonestown tragedy. So, why don't we all agree to substitute the word "water" for kool aid when talking about TV? Let's dump this hurtful phrase when referring to TV. Then we don't have to discuss it any longer; we don't have to see it in print; there no longer will be a negative impression about TV to newbies on this forum, who naturally will associate the Kool-Aid phrase with Jonestown and wonder why it's being said about TV; and there will not longer be a reminder to those who suffered personally from the actions at Jonestown.

Let's all agree to stop using that phrase and instead say:

There must be something in the water here in The Villages, because everyone who visits wants to stay. I drank lots of that Villages water during my first visit, now here I am a FROG, drinking the water every day and loving it! So, don't drink the WATER or you, too, will want to buy a home in TV!

You cannot change an expression of our culture by requesting.

Forcing politically correct language causes resent, therefore resistance.

If someone decides to resist and resent a call for awareness and compassion, then I feel sorry for them. Those particular individuals must have a hard time keeping friends.

The phrase "there must be something in the water" has been around alot longer than the invention of political correctness.

There is a water tower in West Virginia, near the Virginia border, where a young man went swimming one night, drunk and alone. He drowned and nobody knew his body was there in the water until the residents near the water tower started seeing cloudy water coming from their taps with an odd smell.

The water treatment plant operators sent someone to the water tower, high on a mountain, and there was the man's truck and clothes. They discovered his decomposing body in the tower. People there were upset when others joked "There must be something in the water," for every little ailment they were plagued with for years after the fact.

That is very interesting BK. That means that we are just one generation from people, who when they say an expression, will have no idea where it came from.

PC Behavior Run Amuck!
 

You are kidding...right? If not, this is absolutely absurd :22yikes:...how on earth could this mandate be communicated to all TV folks and newbies still to come...are we to walk the streets carrying banners, publish it in the Daily Sun, hire planes to letter the skies with our newest proclamations of acceptable phraseology...heaven help me...I've got to go whack some golf balls now!

I have a problem with the phrase "There must be something in the water". As a young child (before I learned how to swim), I fell into the deep end of a swimming pool and almost drowned. As a teenager, I fell into Arctic waters with three layers of clothing and almost drowned. So when I hear that phrase, it reminds me of the times when I "was that something in the water" drowning. And obviously that phrase is hurtful to many West Virginians. Maybe we can use the phrase "There must be something in the Orange Juice". Oh wait a minute... didn't OJ used to live in Florida?

Shall we now stop singing "Ring Around The Rosey?"

Some people get very hung up on words but really dont give a damn where they come from or what they mean or what dangers they worn us of. If a word or phrase bothers you, dont use it. Otherwise our communication will look like this

I word, t word, y word, a word, i words

Y word

Yup, it seems there is no solution. No matter what we say or how how we say it will probably offend someone. Even well-intentioned suggestions are misinterpreted to be "mandates" and arm twisting. Makes me smile sadly.

It is interesting to learn the origin of the phrases we use today. Here's one I like:

The word "smooch" as in "to kiss" comes from the word "smudge". When a girl wearing lipstick kisses, it sometimes leaves a little smudge of lipstick or lip rouge. So, the phrase "give me a smudge" eventually became "give me a smooch". :kiss:

Y'all are honestly missing the point. It isn't so much about the phrase itself but about the attitude of at least one person and, from reading this thread, the attitude of several others.

The thread to which I was originally referring seems to be missing some parts, so here's a quick rundown of what occurred:

1. Newbie posted about being thrilled that they've purchased and are moving here soon. The last line was a reference to drinking the Kool Aid.

2. The next post started with a comment that there have been previous posts about not using the phrase re Kool Aid and then went on to welcome the newbie.

3. Post #3 gave an account of how the phrase was actually a positive reminder to him of his childhood.

4. Post #4 was downright rude and obnoxious. It truly was in the "neener neener" category. That is, it basically said, "I don't care if you don't like something or if something hurts, if I want to say it, I'm going to say it and you can't stop me." No, those were not the exact words but it was certainly the message conveyed. (And, yes, that poster has responded in this thread a few times; and, no, I won't say who any of the posters were since the original post appears to have been edited and these replies removed.)

My issues were (1) this phrase is hurtful to some (one member of this forum her lost her mother and sister in Guyana -- that's a pain that will never go away); (2) some basic consideration for the feelings of others costs you nothing. I would never do a post asking someone to not use a phrase because it brings up personal issues to me -- that's my problem, not theirs. My issue was and is with the poster who blatantly let it be known that the feelings of others was irrelevant and s/he would say whatever s/he wanted.

So, I created this thread for two reasons: (1) as a way to let those who didn't know or had forgotten the modern-day connotation of the phrase; (2) to hopefully get people to not deliberately say something hurtful and hateful just because they can as was done by poster #4 in the newbie thread. It was not even meant that people should not use the phrase -- that is up to each individual.

I did not intend that people take this as it is politically incorrect to say they drank the Kool Aid. I intended it as a reminder that the phrase can be truly painful to some and, more importantly, there really is no excuse for someone to deliberately and obnoxiously say something they know is hurtful just to prove they can.

And, hopefully, this is now the end of this.

I like to look up words in an etymology dictionary. You can find a few online.

Also, K9-Lovers, I'd like to say that I know you were well intentioned with your diplomatic approach with offering other ways to say something Red finds offensive. There's always many different ways to see things.

In one sense, it's good that people who don't understand what you were attempting to say/do are bold enough to say they don't want to just blindly follow and obey. That is really what happend that started the "phrase" being used in the first place.

Blind obedience isn't good. People should question and make up their own minds based on their own beliefs. Said with much kindness and hoping you understand. Your friend, bk

The saying, "there must be something in the water," conveys no sense of marvel or awe, magic or mystery. It is downright anti-lyrical, rolling off the tongue like a ton of bricks.

The saying, "drink the Kool-Aid" did not originate from the Jonestown tragedy.

I agree with GG and many others on this one.

When I finally retire and become a resident of TV
 

Is this honestly how i am going to spend my day, being involved with a RANT stated by a fellow talk of the village person. I mean for g-d sake. Red Witch made her statement. It is her feelings. That's it, nuff said are you all going to find a phrase of words that offend you.
Life's too short, get on with it!:bowdown::cus::blahblahblah::throwtomatoes:

Is kindness and thoughtfulness truly not important?
 

Ok, so I agree that the term "Drinking the....."is used in common language. I have heard it often here in Northern Indiana not referring to the T.V. However, if someone is open enough to tell me that they take offense at that term, then out of consideration I don't use it. Sorry for any offense Red. Sorry that other people have little consideration for someone else . No one cannot legislate it, but Red is being open and honest with something that is hurtful to her and others. It was one situation before you knew about the degree of hurt it caused it is another when you know about it.

Reminds me of the speech "All I ever needed to know I learned in Kindergarten". Part of that speech is about being kind.

Yep, I too have hurtful things in my life and we all need to learn how we will handle them. I personally take offense at taking the name of the Lord in Vain but I am afraid that is another topic.

Few things are as important in life as kindness and thoughtfullness. A review of the issue in question might be helpful...

I have offended when I didn't mean to offend. However, if I am aware of someone being offended, I simply stop the perceived offense. We all know phrases and words that trigger an emotion to a memory. Even naming a child can evoke a reaction when a name is chosen and the name reminds us of some idiot you knew that had that name. This has really been an interesting thread of human emotion and reactions. I feel for you Redwitch and am very saddened for your terrible memories of the Guyana tragedy.

It pains me to be viewed as unkind and unthoughtful for using an expression that I dearly love, on an discussion board of 13,000 people, knowing that a few people take offense.

But maybe it does make me unkind and unthoughtful. A lot of people I respect think so. I'll concede the point and use it no more.

BK, thanks for your kind words and for being my friend. I appreciate that and the feeling is reciprocated. Because I don't take things personally on this forum, I don't expect that my feelings will ever be hurt by anything said to or about me. 'Cause nobody knows the real me on TOTV! And, I agree with your explanation about not following blindly.

Okay now, everyone get in line single file and follow me . . .:girlneener:

what about changing the subject to 'Drink the Geritol"?
 

anyone know how to 'erase' the offending forum subject line?

That phrase has become so 'household' it's going to be around long after we are gone.

According to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

at the site of that horrific tragedy, they used a cheaper brand anyway.

too bad
it's going to be tough to find an alternative that implies what that one did

L & L

I have found this thread fascinating. Quite frankly reading threads over the last few months did not refresh my memory and thought the reference to Kool Aid was just an inside joke among the TOTVers.
So I guess my NYC education was not a big help. I am embarrassed at myself.
I wasn't interested in googling or searching older threads to find out what it was all about.
Redwich came through loud and clear.
It's my judgement and opinion that a good percentage of the people that used the phrase really didn't know what it meant. I hope so. I am not judging anyone. Maybe I am just naive. I hope not. I could understand those who are offended. We should use this forum more for which it was intended.

I am offended by taxes, people who complain about being offended by everyday language, and drivers who stay in the passing lane doing 20 miles below the speed limit. Just thought I would throw that in. This site has gotten so personal. It was and still is a great information source for new and old TV'ers but is quickly becoming a soap box for some.
No offense, I'm just sayimg...........

I'm probably going to offend a bunch of people here, but I didn't read the book "How To Win Friends and Influence People". Too many people are offended by too many things any more. Lets eliminate the "N" word, the Holacaust didn't happen, Kool-Aid should be banned, and eliminate any reference to slavery from all our history books. Just get rid of anything that offends anyone and pretend it didn't happen. That will make it go away. While we're at it, just go ahead and remove "In God We Trust" from all our currency, because it might offend someone. OH, yeah, 9-11 was all smoke and mirrors too.

Think you have to develop a thicker skin on the Internet.
 

TOTV is very tame with respect to people intentionally trying to hurt other posters' feelings. Bullying has abounded in some of the blogs, message boards, or other discourses on the Web I have been on since around 1998.

I can understand where Redwitch and others are coming from having had a then English teacher's daughter (Michelle Mitchell) murdered on my birthday of February 24 in 1976. This was part--it turned out three years later-- of a conspiracy to collect on an insurance policy on a casino employee Peggy Davis by covering up her earlier (@ Feb 21, 1976) murder by making it look like a serial killer was stalking Reno, Nevada.

The whole high school body was traumatized by this murder as the police dug for a suspect among the student body among other places and as well as just the shock of it.

I have often had trouble with birthdays since learning that Michelle Mitchell had been murdered on my birthday of February 24, 1976.

The law school/library manager at the U of MN (Suzanne Thorpe) over me in 1991 had suggested that I get mental health counseling at the U of MN just because I wanted to be honest about how much of an affect this murder and its aftermath had on me while I was looking for a job in some library other than hers despite the fact that I had gotten through law school even if I had struggled with it a great deal, worked in a law library, as well as represented various prisoners in two of Minnesota's prisons.

I remember going on message boards of a legal nature and pretty much being shredded by other posters for years when I tried to talk about the law, victims' rights, access to legal information, abuse of the mental health system, and other related matters.

We never read a TOTV mission statement explaining that this site is intended to be purely an information source about TV.

This forum serves many purposes. It appears that divulging personal experiences unrelated to TV is one of them. Another purpose is reading opinions that differ from yours and learning from someone else's point of view.

I think it's more that it never meant the same thing to those of us who used it. Wikipedia's claim of it's origin not withstanding, the phrase existed before the infamous incident with which many now associate it. I'm disappointed that so charming and inimitable a phrase was co-opted by the forces of darkness. I've used it often, so I guess it's no secret that I'd like to re-claim it's inner whimsy, but not at the expense of being hurtful to people I love and admire.

If others still use it as we fans of the phrase intended though, I believe they mean no harm; and I cannot see it as wrong.