How Tall Will They Be?
 

There have been lots of words written recently about the apartments to be built at the Hacienda Hills CC site. How about some arithmetic?

—The 7 acre site has 308,00 sq.ft. of buildable space.

— If we make a conservative assumption that 3 acres of the site will be required for the resort pool, walking trails, and other recreational amenities promised by the Developer, the buildable portion of the site is reduced to 176,000 sf.

— The amount of buildable space will be further reduced by the space required for surface parking for apartment residents and guests cars and golf carts, and modest landscaping around the building. At standard “striping sizes” and assuming 1/4 acre of landscaping, those items further reduce the buildable surface on the site by about 75,000 sf, further reducing the buildable surface to about 101,000 sf.

— At an average size of 1,200 sf, the 286 apartments will require 343,000 sf. Add in a 20% factor for hallways and other common areas and there will be 412,000 sf under roof. No allocation has been made for the promised restaurant or restaurant parking.

The arithmetic indicates that the new structure will average slightly more than 4 stories in height. If resident parking and a restaurant are added “under roof”, the structure would average closer to 5 stories in height. If parking for the apartments is provided under ground, the height of the structure could be maintained at about 4 stories.

All that arithmetic being considered, fitting a resort pool, pool structure, restaurant, golf starting facilities, walking paths and other sports amenities, all promised by the Developer, onto only 3 acres of land seems to be a tall order

I’ve tried to be transparent in how I arrived at my conclusions. Feel free to change whatever assumptions you’d like and see what conclusions you reach.

I think that your figures are based on how many CAN be built. I think it will be a three storey building much like the Lofts and much like the independent living building next to Bob Evans on 466. Usually figures established tell how many POSSIBLE units and the tallest they CAN be. But you could be right.

But you could be wrong too. We will see. I so hope I am right and everyone will be pleased. I am really worried about these new commissioners and their goals. Having someone in sync with the developer has allowed all permitting and processes to go smoothly, but someone could if they wanted, be obstructive, throw a monkey wrench into that. If it hurts The Villages, it hurts all of us. So far this place has been an enormous success story, building and giving employment to many people. Supporting excellent Charter Schools, keeping restrictions that cause homes to be well kept. There is always an element of politics for and against big business. I worry about the commissioner that switched parties just before he was elected.

I hope that The Villages builds a beautiful building and landscapes it like they always do and have a lovely pool and that older people who want to rent will find a nice place to rent and all this criticism is put to rest.

I suspect there will be no where close to 280 apartment units constructed at the HHCC site.

Good analysis. On a 7 acre site they could build 7 high end homes at $500,000 each for a total $3,500,000. No need to build a 3 or 4 story monstrosity like The Lofts.

Good analysis but a question. Given the water table here is it possible to build a below ground parking garage?

If so think we will build a basement and man cave for me.

So the 7 high end homes with a 30% margin will generate a littke mire than a million dollars profit...once. At an average of 2000 per month the apartments will generate 6.5M per year...year after year. Even with a larger investment to start the apartments win hands down from a pure dollar perspective.

Underground parking?

In Florida?

The Villages?

apples and oranges............comparing gross revenue to gross margin. duh.

So how does sink hole insurance work when renting? Does the building owner purchase for the entire building? Do the renters get coverage if their personal property (furniture, cars, golf carts) is damaged or destroyed by sink hole damage? Just curious.

From a pure dollar perspective turning the golf courses into high rise apartments wins hands down too. But the Villages sold a lifestyle and I think kicking a hornets nest of angry Villagers might not be wise.

As a renter you insure contents, how it’s destroyed will be in the small print if it’s covered

My suspicion is most will not pay any attention until whatever is going to happen will happen.

At the meeting the apartments could be 4 stories.

But I thought the old commissioners are still in Office, and they were the ones who changed parties. Don’t the new commissionerstake office in November, but I could be wrong

Wow, actual facts and analysis on TOTV! Well done. I tend to use the approved Tennessee definition. They are trying to squeeze 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag.

Don't get too excited.................estimates and assumptions.


:1rotfl:

I agree with you. I prefer facts vs. pure speculation and guessing.... Like...
The squares will be shut down and turned into apartments
Entertainment in the squares will stop if people own apartments in the squares because they will complain about the noise
As soon as a country club gets run down it will be turned into apartments (like Lopez. Oh wait... that was completely refurbished and is now a beautiful restaurant)

There are many more. All speculation with no basis in fact. Yes... we keep hearing it over and over again.
I will say, at least you are fighting a fight where they have declared they want to build apartments at HHCC. The statements above are just stirring the pot.

I agree many will not pay attention until the apartments break ground. Then it will be slow torture as the surrounding residents watch as the monstrosity slowly rises above the tree line then blocks the sun. Plus the construction noise, truck traffic etc it won’t be pretty. Suggested name The Tenements of Hacienda Hills.

We keep hearing 286 units, but I think it will eventually be less. My reasoning? Just making a few educated guesses like everyone else. The Developers got the rights to 300 amenity fees. Some have been used already leaving 286. There is also desires to convert some of the second stories in Spanish Springs to apartments. If these are approved, some of the amenity fees will be used for these residents. Lastly, I think the Developers will work with the angry residents around the HH golf course and limit the height of the building. I’d suggest a trade off might be taking a bit more land by making holes #1 on the Lakes and Oak courses as par 4s. That would allow an additional 75/100 yards to work with. I have NO inside information. Just making some assumptions from what I have read and heard in various meetings.

I think it'll be somewhat less than 200 units total in this specific location. But hey let's call it 200 exactly. There's no reason each unit has to be 1200 square feet on average. They could have a couple of 3-bedrooms at 1500 SF on the top floor, with a few 1300 2/2 with a bonus den. Then on the next floor, mostly 900sf 1/1 and 2/1.5. And the first floor could be mostly 1000sf 1/1.5 and 2/1.5. There's also no reason why it would have to be 4 or 5 floors. In fact - if you account for a minimum of 8 foot ceilings plus at least a foot between each floor for ductwork, wiring, and soundproofing, there's no way 50 feet tall can possibly equal 4 floors of living space. The math just doesn't work. It would have to be 3 floors.

OR...if it's not going to be just one building (remember we still have no idea what it's going to look like) - it could be a couple of 3-floor apartment buildings one one end, and a circle of 2-storey villas similar to the ones in Spanish Springs surrounding the pool, with another couple of rows of 2-floor villas behind that on the other end.

And walking trails going all throughout the whole thing, with a golf cart path leading to the rec building and outdoor activities center.

You could get 200 units total that way, and still have it look nice. I STILL think it's too many units, and I STILL think it'll be too much of a traffic nightmare. But I don't think its appearance is going to be a problem. You can support the developer or loathe them - but you have to admit they produce good looking properties.

Margin Trumps Revenue every time. But, the bottom line is that what is being done at HH is simply not the right thing to do! People, fellow Villagers, that I feel very sorry for, were sold a supposedly dream home. Now they are getting a not anticipated nightmare experience jammed down their throats. I don’t care how one tries to justify it, it’s the wrong thing to do!

The reality is, it will probably look no different than the multiple Assisted and Independent living units that are everywhere throughout The Villages. So why is everyone getting so riled up? It will be same in principle as those, that so many live near now...and it will give people in the North end of the villages an opportunity for apartment living if needed, like down in Brownwood. Instead of thinking it’s a negative, think they are giving people that option if it becomes too much to manage a house and yard vs expensive Independent living facilities.

Hope all the seniors can do stairs, in the event of fire ( we all know how things are built AND inspected around here) or power outages. How long were some out of power in the last Hurricane?

Are you willing to pay half a million for a house in TV? Yes, its nice here but theres better places to live for that amount of money

Check out the new apartment complex on 466 in Lady Lake to get
a non arithmetical estimate of building height & density. Thought I saw an ad for this place highlighting its proximity to Villages amenities

They just have to wait for the sink hole.

They are installing fire poles & slides.

Gross margin is always as a percent; gross profit is always in dollars. duh

In that case count us in:icon_wink:

You might wish to check out current home prices. A high end home on a one acre lot would go for more like $1 million each, not $500k which is now just average.

You can remove the calculations for the restaurant as there is absolutely nothing in writing in the final agreement about a restaurant.

A 3 bedroom 1 bath apartment is a large size at 960 sq ft. , and senior apartments do not need 3 bedrooms. 1,200 sq ft is huge.

The Villages Developer overall has done a great job designing and building this Senior Adult Community called The Villages. If you ask them, they would say “we would do a few things different but overall we are pleased”. 99% of residents would agree. We can trust them to do what is right with this new concept of apartment living. IMHO they have a reputation to protect and they live around here too. Fore!

Yes
Yes
&
Yes

Three acres for a pool? Take a look around. I think that most of the pools including buildings take up less than an acre. Walking paths can be done around the building without taking up a lot of sq footage.

And where does the 286 apartments come from? I've heard the number 300 apartments as well. As far as I know the application is for 265 apartments. The restaurant, and rec room can be located on the first floor. A golf shop is not necessary as the starter shed can handle everything that the golf shop did except for selling merchandise which no one ever bought anyway. If they want a shop, they can erect a small building adjacent to the starter shack.

Like many people hear are saying, these people have done so many things well in the past, I would expect them to do a good job of this as well.

I do have some reservation about the additional traffic however. Maybe it's time to widen Morse and construct of the road golf cart paths for its entire length.

There are already homes sold over one million dollars in TV.

Because they are losing a view they paid a premium for and their home value will decline. Would you be ok with that if it were your home?

I agree wholeheartedly. We have only been here for 4 and 1/2 years, but have been impressed by everything the developer has done. Times change, demographics change, lifestyles change. Some of us are very resistant to change; others deal well with change. The developer has to keep up with change to attract future Villagers, but also placate those who have been here for a long time. It would behoove all to base comments on known facts rather than starting rumors and conspiracy theories. I don't understand why people stay here if they are unhappy, but I suspect Covid has a lot to do with much of the unhappiness. Once this Covid pandemic is resolved, our normal fun filled activities will resume and once again make this a very enjoyable place to live.

The poles are for the dancers!:icon_wink:

I need to update my resume.

Can you say new fire ladder
 

If taller than three stories expect to be tagged to pay for a new fire fighting ladder truck that can reach the new structure.