Virus ... should we just chuck in the towel
 

Out and about this past few days I am coming to the conclusion that trying to fight this virus is a losing battle.

We, my little family, are doing our part in every way possible, masks, social distancing, dining out or take out, no small groups indoors. But, this weekend I noticed more and more people becoming truly belligerent over the masking for shopping, i.e. WalMart yesterday ... young couple absolutely refusing to wear a mask and just pushed right into the store saying "you cannot take away my civil rights". People, mostly elderly men, in Publix without masks and not socially distancing to cash out. Today at P;aneras in SLS people not wearing masks and not distancing, and then throw in the crazy woman who was screaming about politics to everyone who would stop and listen.

I am sick and tired of this awful situation and am suggesting, we just give up and let nature take its course. If someone is sure that the virus is a hoax and will not kill anyone, let them have at it and cull the herd that way. The rest of us who do want to live without catching this virus can go on our merry way protecting ourselves.

What say you ..... for or against with good reasons.

As usual, I agree with you but I would have phrased it a little more gently.

Most people are behaving.

This morning everyone in Big Lots and mostly everyone at Walmarts are masked up

stay the course...this isn't going to last forever

continue to take control of your life/life choices....do what you feel comfortable doing

avoid those places where you know there will be people there that are not playing it as safe as you are

I agree but isn’t your third paragraph pretty much what’s going on now or am I misunderstanding?

:agree:

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...after reading your post, one phrase immediately came to mind - 'roll with the punches'. Life always presents those inevitable punches.

That's exactly what we've been doing since March. Life's not over, simply different. I do understand that it's easier for us to roll with those punches. Retired. Live in The Villages. Financially OK. Family settled and healthy. All healthy.

But the "rolling" included canceling plans, esp travel. Less activities. Less friends. Less entertainment out. Less fun.

The impact has been so great on so many worldwide. And it's not over. yet. We do have faith that medicines and healthcare have greatly improved since March. And that vaccines WILL be available within months. And that we will be inoculated in time NOT to get COVID.

So, until then, we will continue to roll with any punches that come our way. And live life to the fullest we can. period.
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Covid fatigue I’m guessing. The older ones are suicidal, the younger ones are tired of caring. And “if the President can survive it then so can I” thinking.

There is only so much you can do to help other people, and only if they want it in the first place.

I have said it before and I will say it again — we are finding out who we really are and we are finding out who other people really are.

It is not just the aggravation of having to dodge barefaced, angry-looking strangers in grocery stores. It is also the bizarre behavior of people we know — or thought we knew.

In my northern life, I have been a part of a loosely connected social group of women for the past few years. We have been able to get together outside this summer with proper social distancing. We could all scoot our lawn chairs around until we felt OK.

One of the women phoned me for a normal reason, but half way through the conversation she suddenly launched into a harangue about the virus being a hoax and how stupid masks are — and then she fevered up into a creepy ode to the source of her disinformation.

I did not argue with her. I knew there was no point. I simply wrote her off. I figure if she considers me to be disposable, I will not feel bad about disposing of having her in my life, by backing away — backing up, both figuratively and literally.

She has no idea though where I have placed her in my thinking. Actually, that makes me feel kind of guilty, not because I am finished with her but because I did not speak up. I feel guilty because I am so good at the suburban social dance. Damn.

Boomer

I would only be "okay" with that if insurance companies refuse to cover anyone with COVID-19 if they didn't have any masks with them (in their glove compartment, in their purses, hanging from the rear view mirror, on the seat, in the house, anything). You can't prove that they weren't wearing a mask when they contracted the virus. But you can prove lack of personal responsibility if they don't even own a mask.

If people want to be responsible for their own health, I say have at it. Just don't expect my tax dollars to pay for your medical care when you screw up.

Went to Brownwood tonight, for dinner. Spent about 2 hours with a multi course meal. Restaurant had customers, but not overly busy.

But what we did notice was the lack of people at the square listening to music. There were about 30 when we first got to the restaurant, all social distancing. When we left there were fewer. A very helpful ticket taker, asked as we strolled around the square, if we had our tickets to enter.

We mentioned how few people there were and Felt bad the band had very few Patrons.

He mentioned amount of tickets that could be used for Brownwood, not even A 1/4 was there.

The tickets were all taken, but most no shows. He said there were people getting tickets, and then ripping them up, to make sure as many as possible could not attend. He said it was sad that some have decided to control other people lives.

Have no idea if it’s true, but every night tickets are not available, and have very few people attend. But given the fact that some are extremely unhappy people are out and about, it would not surprise me

Lol, OBB, hubby has a friend who places a mask very prominently around the front of his scooter, his motorcycle, his neck... but never on his face. His masks are obviously symbolic or worn on pain of death, which occasionally hubby alludes to if friend comes too near.

To mask or not?
 

I agree with you. I can't understand why some people get nasty when they're asked to wear a mask. Please people, this is a world wide pandemic & if wearing masks could save lives, then just do it! It's only a small inconvenience. I will continue to wear one in public places because I care about you 😷

Since my issue is with having to foot the bill for someone who refuses to accept personal responsibility, I also have to acknowledge that it's nearly impossible to prove. But if they HAVE a mask - at least they have chosen to be capable of wearing one.

If they don't even have a mask - then they've proven that their choice is to be unconcerned for their own safety. At which point I say - then pay for your own medical bills.

I feel the same way about people who have brain trauma resulting from a car accident during which they were not wearing a seatbelt. You choose not to wear one, then you can pay for your own injuries. And again - the same with people on motorcycles who choose not to wear a helmet.

You are responsible for your own health. You can choose to do what science has already deemed a minimum of appropriate behavior, or you can choose to pay the price for your failure if it comes to it.

And - to be transparent about it: I don't wear a mask outside. Only inside buildings. I do carry one in my purse, have one in my glove compartment in my golf car and my car, and extras in my house. So if I feel like I'm going into an unavoidable crowd situation, even if it's outside, I can put the mask on.

Ever have a conversation with a surgeon who fixes people after they have stupid accidents? yes i have. You will get the exact same answers as OrangeBlossomBaby. Lots of people don't respect the very low probability of something life altering happening. And that turns into society and insurance companies covering everybody through "no fault" insurance. So yes, we all pay for every else's sometimes bad luck and sometimes stupidity, sometimes you can't tell the difference

But ask yourself, what's the difference between stopping at a stop sign and wearing a mask if its an ordinance, law or requested by the store front owner? Not complying with a stop sign has a known, but small probability of death or life altering outcome. Not complying with a mask indoors also has a small probability of death or life altering outcome, both random. The difference is that one was trained and taught from the beginning to respect the stop sign, or there will be a least a fine or in several cases license suspension. With the virus, the only difference is that the request is new, the information is conflicting, as reality and theory are a bit different, but the outcome is the same, small probability of a life altering outcome. So in reality, the only difference is that one was trained early in one's formative years to comply with stop signs, and now your ability to learn/adapt is no more, you are done adapting and learning, whatever the outcome.

sportsguy

Oh, and from john's hopkins virologist/epidemiologist, these types of virus events typically run 2-3 years, but with today's modern medicine, expect 1 1/2 - 2 years. . . or slightly longer. So yes, the there will be a mental health toll because our lives have been so easy and healthcare research over many many years have learned allot about what has happened previously, and will continue to learn a lot, but the world and all creatures continue in the battle for survival as we have for millions of years.

sportsguy

Our family listen to the advice, then look after ourselves in the best way we can.
What others do is up to them.
Dirty word in these "someone else is to blame" days, but personal responsibility is still the best option.

. Just what if masks help spread the virus? I am speaking of re using masks, fiddling with the mask, improper storage of a used mask in your pocket, purse of console of your car, wearing the mask underneath your nose. Added all together these things COULD aid with the spread. Children and masks are in a category by them self

Always folks questions whether masks or social distancing or whatever works. Well, look at other countries. I think other countries do better than us, not so much because of masks or social distancing, but rather clear, definitive leadership and people working together to get thru this mess. Our country is the exact opposite - our true colors showing and it ain't nice. For those of us who do mask, do social distance, do small groups indoor, keep up the fight - we are pushing towards the finish line. We are fatigued, but we are getting closer. And remember those who stood with you.

Did you consider that a person without a mask may have had COVID and is no longer contagious? If so, they may be asking themselves why bother with a mask.

Just stay home

Unfortunately, 'they' never report how many COVID-19 deaths also had PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS... so we don't really know how many were truly COVID-19 deaths.

You are right. No one cares anymore. We’re doomed! 😳

I have rarely seen any of this. When in Walmart I see everyone masked and Publix and other stores. You will always have one nitwit who geels its their right to do what they want. Its not that lrevalent at all

I agree. The snowflakes and snowbirds are coming from all parts of the country including foreign countries and they’re carrying a present for us in the villages.Let the natural selection continue.

Of course the data is not exact because there are thousands of people adding to the database and not all understand or care to follow the exact reporting rules. Your examples, like many others discussed in this forum, are anecdotal. They can be outliers which do not represent the full body of accurate data.

So for the sake of discussion, lets say that 10% of the data is inaccurate. Instead of 210,000 people dying of Covid-19 or from the stress of a Covid-19 infection causing an underlying condition (heart disease, diabetes, etc.) to contribute to a person's death, 189,000 deaths is still a whole lot of suffering. Many of those folks would be alive today had Covid-19 not made its appearance in the world. In that regard, Covid-19 is certainly a contributing cause of death.

The specific Covid-19 numbers are a signal/trend that we have a severe health care problem today which would have been much worse had most people not worn masks or socially distanced. So if you are a disbeliever in the extent of this medical crisis, then hold on to these stories and ignore the overwhelming data that is accurate.

I was reading an article from Weird History and how the 1918 Spanish Flu came to an end....social distance, mask and herd....no meds no vaccine. By the time it finally ended 1/3 of the world population had caught it. The towns and counties that did social distance and mask had the best out comes. So don’t give up because like the Spanish Flu it lasted two years this one is going to last an other year if we learn from history.
I try my best to ride in the middle of the road be safe, keep my family, friends, co-workers, and public workers safe and I realize that is all anyone can do.

Wearing or not wearing a mask is not about public health any more, if it ever was. I guess that some folks are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.
Why do so many Americans refuse to wear face masks? Politics is part of it — but only part

Stay home.

Cdc
 

He cdc has provided this information. The percentage is 6% for Covid only deaths.

FYI: The CDC just published a study that showed people who wear masks ALL THE TIME made up 70.6% of those people recently diagnosed with COVID 19 while those who NEVER wear masks made up 3.9%. This is from multiple samples direct from the CDC.

Research this yourself... go to cdc.gov.

Knowledge is a very powerful aide in decision making.

thank you stu for ALL of your wonderful posts, they are so informative

Well said Boomer

Really? We continue to pay for medical issues caused by bad choices.....smoking, HIV, obesity, alcoholism, abortions, the list goes on and we will continue to do so like it or not.

I'm all for protecting oneself against Covid, but it sounds like you think masks do that. What I've learned is they don't protect you, because Covid is too small to be blocked by masks. Masks are useful to protect others from receiving your big droplets which may be infected. But if the virus is in the air, or if you touch your mask with an infected hand, it can pass through your mask just like a bug through a chain link fence. Distancing (especially from anti-maskers!), hand washing, not socializing indoors, not touching your face (including masks which is so hard!) seems to be the best ways to protect oneself. Good health to us all. :pray:

Many of us snowbirds are coming from almost no Covid cases. It is us who are risking a lot for going to Florida this winter. Please don't plunk us all in your premeditated "carrying a present" box.

Six people out of 100 dead as a doornail. I easily know a hundred people and y'all do too. I like them all and love a bunch of them.

The attendant at the square is probably low on the food chain of employment, do you think they are around when tickets are distributed. With all the hoopla about squares opening, I don't think it's that import to most Villagers.
I have observed the webcams for all three squares and seems to have low attendance.

That's not what the CDC said. 6% of deaths attributed to COVID are from the virus only, not 6% of every hundred people! YIKES! That would be 20 million "dead as a doornail"
However, that 6% number has been since disputed.

If a person has a co-morbidity but was destined to live 25 more years then died after contracting the virus, that should be counted as a COVID death. If a person with stage 4 pancreatic ca was going to die in 6 hours, then I would not count it. And a 22 year old critically injured in a motorcycle accident who happens to test positive certainly is NOT a COVID death. Remember, statistics don't lie, PEOPLE lie with statistics.

I continue be amazed at how many folks seem to think everyone they encounter has the virus, when in fact, several days ago Dr. Mike Ryan, WHO Health Emergencies Program Director, said their best guess is that 10% of the world's population has been infected, or about 750 million people. WHO's data says that about 1 million people have died from it. Disregarding whether they died "from" it or "with" it, doing the basic math:

1,000,000 ÷ 750,000,000 = .0013
.0013 x 100 = 0.13% death rate of those infected

OR 99.87% of everyone who gets it survive.

Covid-19: World in ‘for a hell of a ride’ in coming months, Dr Mike Ryan says

There have been 7.7 million cases in the USA, well below the 10% figure above. The 2009 H1N1 flu infected over 60,000,000 people. Which one was more contagious? The average death rate for the seasonal flu is 0.1% vs. 0.13% to Covid-19. No one batted an eye back then thinking they might get the flu and so many ITT in a panic for this.

Also, 40% of the deaths in the USA are from nursing homes because the governors of 4 or 5 states thought it was smart to put covid patients into them.