Mayo Clinic: Vaccine effectiveness against Delta dropping
 

Mayo Clinic study is in preprint, not peer reviewed yet

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness may be "a wakeup call"

A new preprint study that raises concerns about the mRNA vaccines' effectiveness against Delta — particularly Pfizer's — has already grabbed the attention of top Biden administration officials.

What they're saying: The study found the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective against infection in July, when the Delta variant was dominant. "If that's not a wakeup call, I don't know what is," a senior Biden official told Axios.

Driving the news: The study, conducted by nference and the Mayo Clinic, compared the effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the Mayo Clinic Health System over time from January to July.

Overall, it found that the Moderna vaccine was 86% effective against infection over the study period, and Pfizer's was 76%. Moderna's vaccine was 92% effective against hospitalization and Pfizer's was 85%.

But the vaccines' effectiveness against infection dropped sharply in July, when the Delta variant's prevalence in Minnesota had risen to over 70%
.
Moderna was 76% effective against infection, and Pfizer was only 42% effective.
The study found similar results in other states.

For example, in Florida, the risk of infection in July for people fully vaccinated with Moderna was about 60% lower than for people fully vaccinated with Pfizer.

Between the lines: The two shots both use mRNA, but there are significant differences between them.

For example, Moderna is given in a stronger dose than Pfizer, and there is a slightly different time interval between shots.

"There are a few differences between what are known to be similar vaccines .... None of these variables is an obvious smoking gun, although the dosing amount seems the most likely to be a factor," Moore said.

article:

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness against Delta raises concern among Biden administration - Axios

actual study

Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv

Did the study indicate when the shots were given? Pfizer said the effectiveness of their vaccine wanes over time. I’d like to see data on breakthrough illness from the time of full immunization.

Study was conducted from January-July 2021. You can read it by clicking on 2nd link in OP

I looked at the whole article but I can’t see anywhere the question I am looking for. Which is how much does the effectiveness of the phizer or moderna vaccine drop over time against the same variant? Somewhere I read about 6% decline each month or more after the 4 or 5th month of full immunization - I wish I saved the article. That way we could each individually estimate how safe we still might be after our vaccination.

Good question, the abstract says they look at over 50 thousand individuals, half vaccinated and half not, from January to July 2021, so you probably have a good mix of months from vaccination. Abstract does state that they record date of vaccination for each participant so perhaps this info is in the paper somewhere. Here is a link to the full study, let us know if you find anything.

Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv

Every reporter, news agency, main stream media makes a headline out of covid studies that meet their agenda.

The agenda? Confusion and fear.

Anyone want to guess how many different "studies" there are or have been regarding covid "anything".

Authenticity? Never mind roll the presses!!!

Hmmm The Mayo Clinic is one of the most respected medical/science institutions in the world. The numbers reported in the article are exactly the same as those in the actual study (linked above) so I wouldn't call in inflammatory journalism.

This isn't the best news but I would rather keep up to date than hide my head in the sand. Even though I have the more effective Moderna vaccine, I'm going back to Hermit mode (masks are useless) until this wave subsides or they start giving out booster shots.

I expect this data will be on the nightly news shortly, unless they suppress it for some reason.

I found a graph in the full text version of the study.

Attachment 90400

At the bottom it shows rises in infection over time since vaccination. Pfizer (blue) rises more, especially toward the end. This could be vaccine effectiveness going down over time or less effectiveness against the Delta as it started to dominate.

I expected as much just like the annual flu it changes unfortunately kind of expect there may be a booster required and the debate will continue. Its a choice either you get it or don’t

I accept organizations like Mayo. My reference was intended for the Heinz 57 variety studies and loose reporting.

I think you're correct. Take a look at this article recapping a podcast with Dr. Robert Malone. He's apparently the guy that came up with the science used by Moderna and Pifzer to make their vaccines.

Public health experts must check 'egos at the door,' adjust COVID policy, says mRNA pioneer | Just The News

He agrees the vaccines are less effective on the variants. Believes we should be focusing more on early onset treatment as there are very good anti-inflammatory drugs to treat this "hyperinflammatory disease". Also mentions instead of adjusting to the new findings, the CDC is suppressing dissent and discussion.

I don't worry about the "infection rate." The DEATH rate is more important. Even if the vaccination is weaker and more folks that are vaccinated can become infected, the idea is whether or not they need to be hospitalized or if they may die.
The vaccinations may or may not have contributed to controlling the wild fire of Covid related deaths, so now let this virus run it's course so that the survivors can get on with their lives.

Excellent article and I hope EVERYONE reads it through to the end. The covid 19 vaccines are not a panacea and it is not because of the unvaccinated that covid is morphing. There needs to be a new treatment development for the inflammatory factors of this disease when contracted. The CDC needs to take a new treatment tact now if people are going to survive in the long run.

You're right but people don't want to hear that. They are so scared of this virus they don't want to even think about treatment, only how to avoid getting it. That's natural I suppose, but it's like saying I never want to catch a cold or get the flu. It's unrealistic. there are bound to be more variants - after all this is a coronavirus like the common cold and there are hundreds of strains of that. We have to accept it and adjust and find common sense solutions other than total avoidance which isn't going to work.

What a great article, thanks for posting the link. Dr. Malone goes beyond COVID to the heart of the matter regarding what's going on with the CDC/WHO and the scientific community.

Malone is not a reliable source. He is a self promoting blowhard. The only person who says he is responsible for mRNA work is himself. He pushes unproven and unsupported therapies. Please ignore his writing.

The CDC does not provide a "treatment tact". They collect data on disease and the effectiveness of approaches. It is not their job to invent new approaches or do drug research. Your statement that the new varieties of Covid are unrelated to unvaccinated people is simply not correct. The subject of how the unvaccinated are providing the petri dishes for Covid mutation is NOT addressed at all in the article you reference, even all the way to the end.

For real science on the issue of how the unvaccinated are putting all of us at risk now and going forward read
HERE or HERE or HERE or HERE

No one every said that the vaccines were going to be 100% effective. The data in the article shows they are extremely effective but not perfect

I’d like to see the same studies regarding the delta variant fir people that had Covid with natural antibodies. I’ve read that they are more positive in fighting variants but I’d love to see this same study doing a comparison.

Exactly, and I believe all that fear has been stoked by media and government. Covid-19 will most likely be with us indefinitely. The concern about the vaccines should not be "will I get infected?" but rather "will I survive?" Surviving infection is the best way to protect ourselves because the immune system (unless you are immuno-compromised) will do the heavy lifting. It appears the most important phrase from the Mayo study is, "Our observational study highlights that while both mRNA COVID-19 vaccines strongly protect against infection and severe disease. . ."

Pretty sure you won’t see that study because it doesn’t fit the narrative of getting everyone to get the vaccine

I’m not disagreeing about the less effectiveness of the vaccine. They said from the start there would be a booster and they didn’t know how long it would last and that was before Delta variant. But that Dr Malone guy is NOT the guy who invented mRNA. He’s full of BS. He’s literally the only person who says HE invented it. :ho:

Let me guess. Facebook or Twitter told you his advice was misinformation. If you're advising others to totally dismiss this mans' advice, you'd better provide some reliable sources to prove he's been wrong in the past. Yes, there as those in the main stream media that take shots at him. Funny thing is, everything he says that they dispute turns out to be accurate.

Yes, it's disputed as to who came up with the science. Still doesn't take away from the fact he knows the science and his advice makes sense.

Listen to the entire pod cast and then decide. He certainly knows the science. He too agrees the vaccines will be less and less effective as the virus mutates. He thinks Fauci and the CDC should be focusing not on just the vaccine but also on a course of early treatment if/when you contract the virus. He thinks Fauci is in the pocket of big pharma aided by the censorship tools of big tech companies. That's not too hard to believe, IMO.

?only death rate?
 

I agree that death rate is extremely important but because we don't know the long term effects of this virus yet, and understandable due to it's infancy, I'm focusing on 1) not getting infected, 2) reducing the effects if I do, and 3) not dying....yet.

Just a FYI, these are not citable references, none of them are nothing more than second or third hand opinion. Standardly dot coms are not reliable sources of information.

Booster shot?
 

Breitbart news indicates over 1 million Americans have gotten a 3rd shot. Over 1 Million Americans Obtaining Unauthorized Vaccine Boosters

Has anyone gotten a 3rd shot? I'm thinking of getting another Moderna shot. Why?

Several people who had the Pfizer shots have had a break through episode - we were exposed but didn't experience a break through. (We tested negative 3 times just to be sure).

Now that you have been thoroughly brainwashed and manipulated, line up for shots 3, 4, 5 and 6.

Leaked report reveals Moderna COVID vaccine caused 300,000 vaccine injuries in three-month span, hidden from VAERS;
Source: naturalnews.con 8/11/2021

So now you are some kind of expert in vaccines? The truth is that over 98% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated. So the strength of the vaccine possibly has diminished slightly, the over 98% are those who are to stupid or medically not getting the vaccine. They are spreading the virus not vaccinated people.

Delta
 

Here is another opinion from a relatives daughter who is a Micro Biologist that has been working on covid from the beginning. She says the Delta variant is fiction because covid 19 is a man made alteration of a virus so all rules of mutation do not apply. It can not mutate because of the alteration of the RNA in the original virus. Covid was designed to kill everyone who contracted it but has failed miserably. There is a lot more to this but not room for it all.. The vaccine was ready is such a short time because the prime companies had already developed and patented it in advance. It was financed in part by the US but mostly by a group of the richest men who are actively trying to change America. I'm sure you can figure out most of them. The main one who is huge in the computer industry has been very vocal in his thoughts on population control. FYI this is just 2nd hand info from someone involved in the research who is much smarter than me, but food for thought and possibly explains some of the flip flopping and mystery. I am going to do more reading with a new focus. For those who poo poo anything that goes against the grain and believe anything the government, media, or elitists tell you I guess you have lived a very sheltered life or are just very gullible. Thanks for reading let the attack begin. Remember I already stated this is 2nd hand and I have no data to back it up.

What is considered a "vaccine injury?" Punctured skin, broken needles?

No test for Delta variant
 

A recent Covid-19 patient asked his doctor if his case of Covid was the Delta variant, and the doctor replied he couldn’t know because there is no test for the Delta variant. The are guessing it is.

Covid
 

The government has no interest in anything but spreading fear for political gain plain and simple. That is so obvious a blind men can see it. Sorry I didn't want to make it political but if it looks like a duck

There really is a Pandemic. There really was a wave of people who died due to their age and the lack of a vaccine. This happened elsewhere as well, in other countries all over the world.

Now we have a vaccine and it is working really well in keeping people out of the hospital and not dying. It is free here in the U.S. Most people now in the hospital are not vaccinated. I am so sad for them and their families.

I am a person that thinks that nothing is perfect, but I have learned a lot of things as I suddenly got older. Some of my heroes in my teens were Salk and Sabin. I was a volunteer at Columbus Children's Hospital and I saw kids in Iron lungs. Some people are still crippled for the rest of their lives. I remember quarantines for childhood diseases in the forties.

I am a fiscal conservative and dislike a lot of government involvement but I am also a person who respects traditional medicine and bows to minds more intelligent than my own. I am grateful for the vaccine. I wish everyone would get it.

How about a bruise/black and blue from the point where the needle went in to the elbow.......welt the full length of the upper arm immediately after needle withdrawn.
By the time we got home the bruise replaced the the welt.

Went to the ER and it was diagnosed as a hematoma, not to worry, it will go away.
It took three months to finally "go away".

A very, very isolated incident most likely related to the technique (or lack of it) by the one giving the shot.

Your post is partly right and partly wrong, but extremely misleading. Of course there is a test for Delta. But it is not the simple five minute nasal swab available at the drug store. Analyzing the RNA of the virus is a more complex test which everyone is familiar with from crime shows. Some hospitals, universities and State and Federal labs and large national lab companies [think Quest] have the equipment to analyze or sequence the RNA. Your routine nasal swab just says yes or no to is Covid present.

If the doctor really said there is no test for Delta Covid, get a new doctor. More likely the doctor said that the test the patient had did not specifically test for Delta vs other variants. Right now the chance the patient had Delta is about 80%. You as a patient or the doctor AFAIK cannot order genomic sequencing on your sample but I may be wrong. Quest and Labcorp has been sequencing some of their positive tests randomly and with the patient ID stripped in cooperation with CDC's ongoing surveillance. Perhaps others are as well.

More testing is needed to see what particular variant is involved. This advanced testing is done to determine which variants are circulating in the community. Both state and national labs do this sequencing to detect shifts in what variants are out there. So now over 80% of the samples being sequenced are Delta
For more information the CDC explains the process and reasoning.. if you accept that the CDC is not some evil organization manipulating the population to create a new world order enforced by black helicopters and Facebook

HERE
and more in depth HERE
and for in depth information on the variants, go HERE

Interesting. Thanks for sharing the second link. So many people seem unable to understand that the only way to figure out the efficacy of a vaccine over time is to keep on testing it month by month. They blame drug companies and the CDC for not knowing in advance. Generally, with a new vaccine, it has been tested for several years before it is released, so its longevity is better known. To save lives and businesses, these vaccines were rushed. Who anticipated the giant “lunatic fringe” that would refuse to be vaccinated and so continually put the rest of us at added risk? Who knew we would soon have a more transmissible variant? A booster will be necessary, I think. Perhaps yearly. I seem to recall that 45 years ago, when I moved to Africa and needed a cholera vaccine, it was only good for six months. Then it needed a booster. Flu vaccines are new every year, to an extent. A couple years ago we were told “you can’t catch the same cold twice because you develop antibodies to that virus.” But more recently, researchers have found that those antibodies only last a year or two.

What I’m worried about is the variant that comes along with a much higher death rate than Covid-19. Something more like the Black Plague. It could happen. It only takes a few mutations here and there in an already rampant disease. If it were like the Black Plague, we’d be talking 100 million lost in the U.S. alone. Imagine how that would affect our country. Or our families.

Who cares? You can't believe anything the CDC, WHO or Fauci says. If you are vaccinated, quit wearing your masks.

Why worry about something that you have no control over?

You can bet N. Korea, Iran, and other rogue nations are busy in their labs trying to create that variant.
They have now seen what chaos and death it can create.