Southwest Airlines cancels 1,800 flights
 

They are trying to blame it on bad weather but other airlines did not have large numbers of cancellations.

The disparity between Southwest’s operation and other airlines fueled speculation on social media that employees were calling out sick, with some suggesting it was in protest of a Covid vaccine mandate. Southwest said that was not the cause of the mass flight cancellations.

Southwest Airlines cancels 1,800 flights, blaming weather and staffing

Appatrently the pilots are unhappy with the vax mandate but can't say so officially through their union because such a walkout would be illegal. This could easily spread to other airlines, I wouldn't want to be booked on flights right now.

This puzzles me. When I was taking flying lessons I met several pilots and they all invariably showed good judgement. I wonder where did that judgment go with respect to vaccines?

Why assume that it is anti-vaccine? Perhaps it is anti-mandate? There are a lot of health care workers (and other first responders) nationally who are refusing the vaccine despite the threat of job loss. Beaumont Health in Michigan for example, is offering a 10K sign-on bonus to cover staffing shortages.

So if the pilots are anti-vaccine and not anti-mandate, then perhaps the health care workers who are refusing the vaccine are anti-vaccine, and not anti-mandate as well. If health care workers are anti-vaccine, then perhaps they know something that should cause pause for others?

Glad we were not flying to go on a cruise now.

Good point, and who in their right mind would want to get on a plane anyways if it is being flown by someone with such poor judgement. I support the mandate, but wish the mandate would also include all passengers so we could get comfortable flying again.

A couple of investment advisers I follow, are saying LUV is a strong buy now.

I hope they get their $hit together, we have almost a half million frequent flier miles waiting to be cashed in on trips back and forth between our homes.

I can’t fly anyway but will be driving down nextMonday. Can’t wait, hoping to make our 20 hour ride more like 18 hours but we shall see.

I'm a bit confused by news "reporting" of this, and the surprise of people learning about this. Southwest Airlines announced back in November 2020 that they were going to be doing a bunch of layoffs and changing their schedules around. They announced it again in December.

In August of this year (2 months ago) they announced they'd be cutting flights and laying off more people through November 5.

It was an announced thing, it's not a "gotcha" situation, conspiracy, or coverup at all.

LOL They cancelled 1800 flights in two days, stranding tens of thousands of paying customers and causing a huge ripple effect with other airlines, and you think this was "just planned cutbacks" Too funny

You do understand that there are probably over 100 million Americans who have survived covid and have stronger and longer immunity than the fully vaccinated right?

I'd rather get on a plane with 100% verified covid survivors than fully vaccinated people. The CDC measured breakthrough cases in Los Angeles and 25% of all cases were breakthroughs of fully vaccinated people. I don't like those odds in an aluminum tube packed cheek to jowl with potential carriers.

I am not sure why, if an average passenger is vaccinated and is wearing a mask, which is required in US airports and on US flights (including chartered flights), there would be a lack of comfort in flying? The flight attendants wear masks for the entire flight and I have only seen a pilot leave the cockpit to use a forward restroom, not engaging with the passengers during the flight. So then, does the vaccine work and does masking help prevent the spread of Covid? If they do, then it would seem flying might be uncomfortable for some, Covid or not. Should they not work, then why require them?

Vaccine Safety
 

No one knows( medical, scientists, microbiologists, virologists etc) the long or short term effects from the vaccine. P.S. why are all the medical trials on medications done by the COMPANY that makes them? This seems like a big problem to me.

I do not know the full facts regarding S.W. Airlines problems, but the fact I do know is, the OP has only ever posted threads that are guaranteed to turn political, and stir up the same old anti-vaccine argument.
He is an Agent Provocateur of the first order!

NEWS6 reporting Southwest is being sued by employess over mandates. they didn't say which, but gave the impression it was referring to the vax

This is PRECISELY why this is happening. The Southwest pilots are protesting the vaccine mandate (not the vaccine). In my opinion mainstream media is frantic to keep this from being well-known (organized resistance and all that) but the Internet has numerous pictures of Southwest Airlines airplanes parked and flying the "Don't Tread On Me" flag. Rumor has it as well this will (perhaps already has) include other airlines as well.

Kudos to those brave men and women. We have been sheep long enough.

I'd flag this post but it is too ridiculous to make diasappear.

I have had Moderna shots 1 & 2 eight months ago, and a third shot a few weeks ago so explain to the class how I am anti vax.

I think the vaccine MANDATES are silly and ill advised. Forcing people to inject something they may not need is wrong. They could be one of 100 million who have stronger immunity than the vaccinated because they survived covid allready. Or maybe they are not old and obese or immunocompromised and just don't fear this virus all that much. Besides if 25% of current cases are breakthrough cases, why would you feel safer on a plane if all are vaccinated?

Southwest said the airline was working to return flight operations to normal as it dealt with a backlog of passengers from more than 2,000 canceled flights and thousands more that were delayed since Friday. The airline on Monday canceled 363 flights - about 10 percent of scheduled departures - while more than 1,300 were delayed, according to flight-tracking site FlightAware.

The disruptions inconvenienced, angered and stranded tens of thousands of passengers. The cancellations and delays Monday at the nation's fourth-largest domestic carrier were a costly extension of disruptions that stressed travel during the long holiday weekend.

These "planned cutbacks" are really fun! :shocked:

A pilot was interviewed and said his present job is more stressful than when he was a fighter pilot. What does that say about the current situation? PS anyone that believes that the cancellations was due to weather, I have a bridge in NY for sale.

:1rotfl: Oh...:1rotfl:..the....:1rotfl:....irony...:1rotfl:

An article was written in May of 2017 entitled “The Prison of Two Ideas”. I am not going to link it here as it covers political beliefs (easy Google search if you want to read it) but basically it says that you are either for or against a position. Many have come to believe that for every issue, there are only two possible positions, for which this thread has perfect examples, i.e. if you are anti mandate, then you are anti vaccine. In my opinion, based upon the content of threads I have read, this “prison” usually is built when emotion is involved and not facts supported by data. For example, is there proof that people who are anti-mandate are all anti vaccine? There is not, but there is proof that people support the vaccine and have had the vaccine, but are anti-mandate.

“My way or the highway” doesn’t leave much room for discourse, unless that is the objective.

Mandates don't require that you fly Southwest Airlines.

Mandates don't require that you work for Southwest Airlines.

Both of those are optional. You can find some other method of transportation, and you can work for a different employer - or start your own business if you'd rather.

You can also get your surgery at a hospital that doesn't require you to be vaccinated. You can shop at a different supermarket that doesn't require you to be vaccinated.

Lots and lots of options. In fact, this is about as "pro-choice" as it gets. Previously, you didn't have a choice. You didn't have the option of flying on a plane where everyone was vaccinated. Now you do.

Choice is good.

I don't believe any domestic airline has mandatory vaccinations for passengers at this time. But no worries, Senator Feinstein is on it,

“Today I introduced legislation requiring passengers on domestic flights to be vaccinated, test negative or be fully recovered from a previous Covid illness.”

Hey look, she snuck "fully recovered" in there. :) That may tick off the mandatory vaxers. Personally, I would rather share a flight with 100% covid suvivors, but they would probably refuse me as I might be an asymptomatic carrier.

All these new rules are going to make air travel even more fun. Instead of getting to the airport 2-3 hours early it may be 5-6. Trains will be faster. :icon_wink:

How does “my body, my choice” sound? Or does that only apply to the segment of the population that “coined” the phrase, and only in a specific circumstance?

And how does one work for another company if that company is also under the direction of the mandate by virtue of having 100 or more employees? Well there you go, just work for a company with less than 100 employees and the mandate doesn’t apply. Wait, what? Yep, the rule proposal under OSHA doesn’t cover those businesses. If the mandate doesn’t apply to those companies, then maybe Covid is not the killer it is made out to be (which the data ACTUALLY SHOWS). Or maybe, since OSHA rules don’t apply to smaller companies, a work around to avoid judicial review hasn’t been identified yet.

Since “choice is good”, perhaps those who are vaccinated and wearing masks but still fear the virus should consider their choices such as double and triple masking if one doesn’t feel safe enough. They could also choose to get a booster as often as they feel their antibodies are declining. How could they tell? Simple, get tested every week and keep a log of the results.

BTW, I do support businesses making decisions based upon their determination of what will work best for them. I can then decide if I wish to work for or patronize that business. How likely would it be that an airline would require an employee to get a vaccination or lose their job in a vacuum? Highly unlikely that they would provide their competitors with the option to pick up already trained personnel to fill their openings.

Unfortunately the “fear porn” has been successful and people’s emotions are getting the better of them.

I have nothing to fear. I've been exposed, and I've been fully vaccinated, and I still wear a mask inside stores and medical buildings when I have an appointment. I'm also not at risk. But this isn't about me. It's about what's right for civilization, humanity, loving thy neighbor, giving a crap about your fellow human being.

First, I am sorry to hear you were exposed, but am glad to hear that you are vaccinated, wear a mask, and don't feel you are at risk.

Wow-doing what is right for civilization and humanity! You would think that Covid was as deadly as a hemorrhagic fever such as Ebola or Marburg. So let's go to the data and take a look, perhaps I wasn't aware of how deadly Covid is.....

First, let's look at the current population clock to see about how many people live on this planet, and we will see at the time of my writing this post: 7, 795,546,137 (and climbing)

Let's now look at the world wide number of coronavirus cases, deaths, and recoveries and we see:

Total cases: 239,303,783
Total deaths: 4,877,149
Total recoveries: 216,566,048

So for the worldwide population, it looks like 3% of the population experienced a case of Covid, 0.063% of the worldwide population has died from Covid, and 90.5% of the worldwide population (10/13 correction: should indicate “of the total cases”, not “of the worldwide population”) has RECOVERED from Covid.

Thank you for proving my earlier point, to wit:

this is an absolute protest on vaccine mandate. it doesn't take a genius to figure this out. this country is coming to a screaming halt, and the media will not report on it. nothing to see here.

Southwest Airlines' pilot union sued the company last week, before staffing shortages led to the cancellation of more than 2,000 flights over the weekend (and more on Monday).

Seattle PD May Lose 40% Of Officers Over Covid-19 Vaccine Mandate - Invesbrain

Wrong. Vaccinated people have far more immunity than infection survivors. The data on this is clear and it's not even close.

You're wrong. That's not true at all, hence the need for boosters. Besides, the so-called immunity given is just for S-specific antibodies, meaning for one kind of spike protein only. Natural immunity acquired after an infection is broad and more long-lived.

If you are going to come here and claim special wisdom at understanding math and numbers, please do me the favor of getting the math right. I'll leave you to find the completely ridiculous figure you calculated with such certainty. As my elementary school teacher said, "Check your work"

Actually the math is correct. What was incorrect was the phrase 90.5% of the worldwide population recovered. It should have stated 90.5% of the total cases resulted in recovery. My bad. Feel better now?

The good news is that Covid is still not as deadly as the “Fearporn” promoters would have us believe.

Immunity always wanes, whether acquired via infection or vaccination.

Current peer-reviewed published info indicates vaccines confer better immunity than infection. There is an Israeli paper hanging around out there that is not yet peer-reviewed, we'll see what happens there.

It seems to me we still have little understanding of which antibodies interact with which virus proteins. So I'm trying to understand your statement re: S-specific ABs only attacking one type of spike protein. Do you have an article or paper to reference?

I asked for a reference, so I'll provide one also. This is a good overview of the current situation. Of course, this will evolve over time.

COVID-19 natural immunity versus vaccination | Nebraska Medicine Omaha, NE

Then he should quit. There are thousands of CFI all across the country eager to take his place. And that goes for all SW pilots. If they don't wanna adhere to their employers requirements - resign.

I'll let you do the checking since you started doing it anyway:

Of that 90.5% total cases that resulted in recovery:

How many required in-patient hospital stays?
How many man-hours went into the patients' recovery by health professionals, janitorial services, billing departments, insurance companies, ambulance services?
What was the average number of man-hours per patient for in-patient hospital stays?

How many required outpatient urgent care centers? Same questions for those.

How many required days missed from work?
How many total days missed from work, spread out among all people who were infected and recovered?
Of those days missed, how many were paid by employers? How many patients received no sick-pay for their days of work, and what was the average number of unpaid sick days per patient who was not entitled to sick pay?

How many family members had to miss work or school in order to care for the patient during recovery? How many hours were missed, per person?

How many patients recovered, but with permanent damage to any of their organs? How many family members will be spending the next several years assisting their "recovered" patients in treatments or extra medical care as a result of the permanent damage?

Gary Kelly, CEO of SWA, said that sick calls were at the same rate as usually experienced during this time of year. The pilots union says that there is no concerted activity to reduce flights.

The truth of the matter is four-fold. One, they are understaffed both above the wing and below the wing. All airlines are understaffed. Too many retired or were laid off during the pandemic. Two, there were pop up thunderstorm cells around Jacksonville that clobbered all flying up and down the east coast Friday night. Three, ATC was short-handed Friday night in the high altitude sectors slowing down all traffic up and down the east coast. Four, Southwest uses a point-to-point operational model that is unique to the major airlines. While it is cheaper to operate on a day-to-day basis, it is seriously flawed when things go wrong. When it goes wrong, it goes wrong in a big way with limited ability to recover. Other airlines use the hub-and-spoke model which is more expensive to operate on a regular basis. The hub-and-spoke model gives the other major airlines the ability to recover the operation quickly when things go bad.

Thirty years in the industry. You learn a thing or two.

Hmmm, I'll have to ask my daughter's friend, who's a flight attendant for Southwest, about these assertions.

No fair. You are raining on the anti-vaxxer/anti-mandate parade.

Are any of these questions UNIQUE to Covid? Is it possible, maybe even a little bit of a possibility that the same questions can be asked about any disease? If you truly have need for this data, you can try and look it up and please, present links to the data to support any claims.

BTW, I am still waiting for proof for this assertion in another thread:

Originally Posted by coffeebean:

"Has the flu EVER stressed our health care system like Covid has? Just wondering."

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

"The plague did. The flu did not.

COVID-19, all strains from beginning in late 2019 til now, have caused or contributed to the death of more people who died from the BIG Spanish influenza (or complications of the Spanish flu) epidemic of 1918."

My response and request for the data to support the assertion can be found in the Vietnam vs Florida thread, post #151 which is linked for your convenience. For context, the flu pandemic of 1918 killed 1 in every 150 people versus Covid which has killed 1 in 500.

Actually, there is a qualified pilot shortage currently.

That's not true. Acquired or natural immunity often can last a lifetime. They say you never catch the same cold (coronavirus) twice because you acquire natural immunity. However, there's also dozens of mutations and variants of the common cold so that's why we still catch colds every year. It's will be the same with Covid. If the vaccines conferred strong immunity you wouldn't need booster shots every few months. Pfizer admitted their vaccines waned by summer. As for Israel, they're already working on their fourth booster shot as cases continue to go up.

I will try and link the S-specific protein data later. It stands to reason, anyway, as it was developed for the original Covid hence it doesn't work that well against variants. It's not even a vaccine, remember, it's mRNA gene therapy. It instructs your cells to recognize and neutralize a particular spike protein.