Slow pace of play on championship courses again
 

During the past 8 days, I have played 4 championship golf courses. (Cane, Mallory, Glenview and Tierra Del Sol). The pace of play has been painfully slow (over 4 1/2 hours and one time 4:45 minutes). My groups have spoken to the Club manager each time. Mostly they acknowledge the pace of play has been slow and the ambassadors have attempted to get the offending groups to move along, but seem to be unable to do so. The ambassadors are in a no win situation, they have unhappy golfers because we wait at every tee box and on the fairways to hit our second shots, etc and slow golfers who don't care they are behind schedule. At TDS on Friday, at the turn the starter did get the Asst. Manager out on the course to speed things up. Playing Cane yesterday (Sunday) we teed off on Jacaranda, and when we reached the second hole we encountered 3 other groups on the hole. The ambassador indicated in order to speed up play all groups have been instructed to drive 15 ft. up to the greens. It did help a little, but still the round of golf took more than 4 1/2 hours. Just venting, but if this is an indication of what we have in store for us once the seasonal residents return, it will be a very long season. I hope tomorrow the round at Cane Garden won't be as slow.

We closed on a CYV this spring and will be down for our first full winter in November. The wife and I bought golf clubs with the hope of trying to golf. From what I am reading here it looks like our lack of experience will hold things up and will upset many. Not wanting to cause problems are there any suggestions? What do the newbees do? We were all beginners at one time.
Bob

I am not there yet so just speculating
 

Time of day? Coming up on the end of summer rates. Afternoon rates are very cheap and may attract less experienced golfers for a few last swings??

Slow play is an issue at every almost every club I have played, not isolated to TV. The winters in TV are no worse that anywhere else from my experience. What you have described is worse than my experiences in past winters in TV.

Like I have said in other threads about conditions and overseeding, I will remain hopeful.

I suggest newbees play the shorter 9 hole courses and make sure they play with an experience couple who can give the beginner tips on how to speed up play

One rule I remember:

Oh wait, that was the tips for being a caddy :jester:

Because you are a beginner does not mean you will be slow. Google around for golf pace of play, lots of good information. Once you understand some basic etiquette about pace of play you should have no trouble. Here is an example:

http://golf.about.com/od/golfetiquet...paceofplay.htm

Get your feet wet on the executive courses. The big advantage there is if you feel you are holding up play, pick up your ball move it up the fairway. Since it is free, it does not matter.

Other tricks I have seen:

• Always use a tee even off the fairway until you feel confident hitting
• Pick up after double par
• Play a scramble with your wife. You each hit, select the best shot and you each hit from there.

You will be fine, learn etiquette, learn to play, enjoy the journey of the game.

Bravo! A reasonable proactive response. Golf is supposed to enjoyable. All too many golfers want to fly through the game so that they can go. . . where? The PGA has published that 4 to 4.5 hours for a country club type course is a normal speed (about 15 minutes per hole). See http://www.playgolfamerica.com/Graph...ng_to_play.pdf

[QUOTE=ncr2482;298446]During the past 8 days, I have played 4 championship golf courses. (Cane, Mallory, Glenview and Tierra Del Sol). The pace of play has been painfully slow (over 4 1/2 hours and one time 4:45 minutes). My groups have spoken to the Club manager each time. Mostly they acknowledge the pace of play has been slow and the ambassadors have attempted to get the offending groups to move along, but seem to be unable to do so. The ambassadors are in a no win situation, they have unhappy golfers because we wait at every tee box and on the fairways to hit our second shots, etc and slow golfers who don't care they are behind schedule. At TDS on Friday, at the turn the starter did get the Asst. Manager out on the course to speed things up. Playing Cane yesterday (Sunday) we teed off on Jacaranda, and when we reached the second hole we encountered 3 other groups on the hole. The ambassador indicated in order to speed up play all groups have been instructed to drive 15 ft. up to the greens. It did help a little, but still the round of golf took more than 4 1/2 hours. Just venting, but if this is an indication of what we have in store for us once the seasonal residents return, it will be a very long season. I hope tomorrow the round at Cane Garden won't be as slow.[/QUOTE

How many were in your group? 4 and half hours where I play is very good.
I was in a twosome following a foursome and it was dreadful on Saturday.
Can't wait to be able to play every day. I'm soooo jealous. I guess in Utopia things could be so rough! :wave:

FYI, already begun on October 1st, Lifestyle Preview visits are now being offered for a maximum of two weeks instead of the customary max of six nights . And this is at $100 per nite for a couple. Additional couple in the same house is an additional $50. So, do the math. That's some bargain for one or two couples for a two week vacation, with coupons, golf cart and all. So, don't you think the golf courses are going to get crowded. And the birds haven't returned yet. There you go!

New to golf doesn't have to mean "slow"
 

Bob45 - that was good advice above, from the former caddie. If you start to hold up others, just pick up your ball and move on. The idea of playing a "best ball" with your spouse is good too.

And don't agonize and pray over every shot for 3 minutes like some golfers, good or bad, do, like their lives are depending on it. Sometimes new golfers hear so many criteria like "keep your head down" etc. that they're processing everything except "just hit the ball".

It's supposed to be fun, and you'll have fun when you hit some shots that sail high and straight toward the pin.

Pace of play
 

FYI- Recommended pace of play on TV Championship courses in approx. 4 hours and 15 minutes (per the scorecards). On the card, each hole has the pace of play time. Someone asked the question regarding the number of players in my group. The TDS group was a threesome and naturally we factor that into the equation. I brought this issue up because up until last week we could play a round in under 4 hours. ...but recently the rounds have been more than 4 1/2 hours, closer to 4 3/4 to 5 hours. My groups play in the morning. One of the Cane ambassadors was guessing that many non-priority players are playing before the rates increase on October 15th. Everyone in our group (3 foursomes) on Sunday agreed that might be the reason.Just a cautionary note to expect slower play.It won't keep me from playing golf, tomorrow playing at Cane Garden in the morning, I will keep you posted to see how it goes.

Played at Havana in the afternoon wave today and finished in under four hours. I think we might have waited on two or three holes max to tee off.

My wife and I moved to The Villages in February and had never played golf. We went to the Palmer Academy for for the 5 day New to Golf program. Following that we went to the Good Golf seminar. Finally we arrived on the local 9 hole course, talked to the starter and met the Amabassador and told them our situation because we did not want to get in the way of experienced golfers. They said we would have no problems - and we didn't - the Academy and the Good Golf seminar tell you how to get around the course as a beginner.

Evidently the problems occur with beginners who have never played before, have not been to the Academy or taken the Good Golf seminar and turn up on the course with a golf club in their hands for the very first time. So, if you are new to golf I would highly recommend you start out with the New To Golf program at the Palmer Academy - it has served us well.

I asked the same question in the "new members forum" in the thread "Newbie Golfers." There were some good suggestions from others. We decided to treat ourselves and take the New Golfers lessons as suggested - our goal is not to be great golfers or even good - we just want to have a good time and not interfere with others having a good time. We also wanted to know the "rules of etiquette." Other suggestions were to golf later in the day, use the executive courses (they are ranked as to difficulty), take the one hour etiquette course, pick up your ball and move on if you have tried and are holding up others, and ENJOY.

We are still "wannabees", but will be looking when we arrive later this month. Congratulations on your purchase AND good luck with golf!

BowlesCreekYachtClub - where do we find the Good Golf Seminar - Is that also at Palmer and we will hear about it when we take our lessons? Thank you for sharing.

Go here for info on Good Golf Seminar:
http://golfthevillages.com/golf-academy/newtogolf.asp

I've played alot of golf and don't understand anyone thinking 4 1/2 hours is a long time to play 18.If I'm on a championship course here and I'm averaging 15 minutes a hole I don't care what people behind me are thinking.Golf is a game to be enjoyed and not rushed through,Please all of you in a hurry stop & enjoy nature .You might just learn to relax.chilout

On The Villages golf courses the recommended pace of play is 4 hours and 15 minutes which is faster than 15 minutes per hole. The recommended pace depends on the difficulty of the course, and our courses here are not that difficult compared to other courses I've played - just look at the course and slope ratings. Our job as golfers is to keep pace with the group in front of us. If you have open holes in front of you, you are being slow and are at fault. Period. I don't feel it is up to me to tell people how to enjoy the game, but personally I don't enjoy the game if I have to wait for some slow group in front of me. I lose my rythym and eventually my interest if it is very slow.

We've had this discussion many times - The Villages just does a poor job of dealing with these slow players. The rangers have no clout, and when we run into people who think it is their "right" to play at a slow pace, who don't care that there are people behind them who are waiting, there's not much anyone can do. I play a lot of golf, and on average we finish within the pace of play, but there are many times that the play is slower, and very few times are we able to get done in less than 4 hours, as we are waiting for the group(s) in front of us. At other courses I've played, if you are off the pace, you are given a warning, then told to pick up and move forward without finishing the hole if you continue to be slow. If they would at least give people warnings here, it would be nice.

If you are a new golfer, my suggestion would be to play later in the day - you are allowed to play 9 holes after a certain time; and/or wait until the snowbirds have left when the courses are not so clogged up, so you won't be holding people up. Thank you for asking for suggestions, and being so considerate.

Nice selfish attitude
 

you have. You are supposed to keep pace with the group in front of you. Hope I don't have to play behind your group very often.

Look at the slope and the distance of TV courses. They are easier and shorter then you are used to playing. I play a lot of championship courses and the pace of play should be maintained based on the course you are playing. Most TV 18 hole courses should be completed in 4:00 to 4:15 maximam. If you are taking longer play a shorter tee box. Yes you should enjoy the game, but so should every one else on the course. There are so many things you can do to speed up play. Take the course on golf etiquette, play ready golf, manage your time on each hole, move to the next tee box before recording scores, place your cart and clubs on the far side of the green close to the next tee, pick up after double bogie, first person in the cup should replace the flag, (after picking up their clubs and are ready to move to the next hole), and many other things you learn as you play. There are so many simple things everyone can do to speed up play if we are all considerate of the others on the course.

Saying I am going to enjoy the nature and to h*** with everyone else is not one of them.

:agree:Amen to that....

Actor and l2ride - well said.

As stated previously you can get the information at this address which you must cut and paste into your browser as it does not seem to link automatically.

http://golfthevillages.com/golf-in-the-villages/

The Good Golf School is FREE - always good.


Good Golf School Schedule
January through December 2010
9:00 a.m. – 11:00 a.m.
Wednesday Mornings – January through April
Thursday Mornings – May - December
Colony Cottage Regional Recreation Center
(Located on the corner of Morse Blvd. and Colony Blvd. near Rt. 466A)
January 6 January 20
February 3 February 17
March 3 March 17
April 7 April 21
May 20 June 17
July 22 August 19
September 16
October 7 October 21
November 4 November 18
December 2

While I do agree with you it does not always play out this way. Earlier this summer when playing on Kilimanjaro we had a group of four in front of us that was slow, or so we thought. The group in front of them was moving along quickly. On the 6th tee the ambassador showed up and asked if everything was ok. One of our group then complained about our concern for the slow play in front of us. The ambassador told us that while there was open fairway between the group in front of us and the next group he was not going to say anything because they were on time and the 1st group was ahead of schedule. But the more I thought about that I disagreed because sooner or later that day the trickle down effect was going to come into play.

maybe ambassadors should carry guns - before you play you should be told the pace of play and if this pace is not maintained you will be asked (told) to leave the course.

Theres that gun thing again.

We played Cane yesterday afternoon. We waited on every hole. Toward the end of the round the group in front had at least two open holes. The courses are packed because of renters and birds returning. Also there are some course closures for over seeding. Hope it gets back to normal soon.

Our group played over the weekend. We were never slowed down by the group in front of us, but there was a big backup right behind us, wonder what that was all about? Took us 7 hours and 10 minutes to play.

Don't make up the rules
 

There are absolutely no rules anywhere that require your foursome to keep pace with the group in front of you as long as you are playing the speed recommended for the course. That is like saying that the driver ahead of you on the interstate driving the speed limit is obligated to get out of your way because you are in a hurry. Let's be reasonable here.

Not making up rules!
 

It is not a "rule" of golf, but is accepted etiquette. Your position on the course is behind the group in front of you rather than in front of the group behind you. If the ambassador tells you your group is 5 minutes ahead of pace, do you sit in the cart for 5 minutes? The stated pace of play is not a minimum, but should be a maximum.

Play on any golf course is a cooperative effort of all players to maximize enjoyment of all. Groups that fall well behind reduce the enjoyment of all who play immediately behind them and for the rest of the day. Groups who push others, hit into them in their haste, also adversely affect the golf experience of others. Nobody is asking anyone to rush their game, just play at a pace that keeps the groups in contact with each other and minimizes delays.

And your analogy is flawed because on the interstate, there is a passing lane to allow faster vehicles to pass. Perhaps another analogy would be the driver on the interstate who rides in the passing lane at the same speed as the vehicle in the right lane and refuses to move over because he/she is going the limit, so no one should be going faster.

Pace of play
 

.

You are correct regarding not having to keep up with the group in front of you as long as you maintain your pace of play. Saying all that, I played today at Cane Garden(foursome), started on Jacaranda at 8:54 and did not finish until 1:30.

I guess I should have used an analogy of a one lane road with a double yellow. So what you are saying is that if a group of pros are ahead of you, you should pick up your ball and keep pace? I still say that if the accepted speed of play is maintained, it is not possible to fall behind just because the group ahead of you plays faster than the norm. Should a foursome be required to keep pace behind a twosome? The reality is that if a foursome observes the general rules of golf with regard to lost ball searches, putting times, etc., there will usually not be a problem with speed of play. But expecting an average golfer to keep pace with a low handicap foursome is just not part of the game. It is no fun for the average guy. If all of the average guys quit playing out of frustration with the stress, then the small percentage of low handicappers will incur much higher costs to play.

Ok Ok maybe I worded it wrong ..I do care.I'm capable of playing at any pace but 4 1/2 hours seems reasonable.I sometime play with folks that 15 minutes a hole is rushed to them.They have a right to enjoy the golf in the villages as much as anyone here.Sounds like if you're not a single digit handicap you don't belong on the championship courses and that's bull....!Why don't we all relax. The next time someone in front of you isn't playing to your liking just remember it sure beats working!! It's another beautiful day in the villages.:pepper2:

Do what I do - play before the morning wave. I've done this often and usually get paired with 2-3 others. Sometimes we've been so fast the ranger told us to play 2 balls each if we want so we don't catch up with the grounds crew:)

I apologize if I am missing something obvious, but how does one do this? Are the times before the wave? DO you just play 9?

When you look at the scorecards, it tells you what the pace of play is on the various courses. Havana and Cane are 4 hours 15 or 16 minutes. Ob 4 hours 7 minutes, and so on. Palmer and Lopez are exceptions at 4 hours and 26 minutes. So 4 1/2 hours is not reasonable on most of the golf courses in The Villages. I don't mean this unkindly, but if someone is rushed at 15 minutes per hole, they need to find another place to play, or improve their skills, because they will not be playing at the accepted pace of play. They do not have the right to spoil the game for the rest of us who go by the rules. I play golf with people who have handicaps in their 20's and they have no problem keeping up. They're ready to hit when its their turn, they move quickly between shots; they essentially don't waste time. Its called being courteous i.e. golf etiquette.

I agree with you. I think the ambassador was incorrect here, but that tends to happen. They don't like to rock the boat. The problem is, as you said with the trickle down effect, once things slow down, its iimpossible to get things back up to speed. One slow group in the morning will affect pace of play all day long. Someone else was talking about playing behind pros and/or twosomes, etc. That doesn't happen too frequently in my experience. There is rarely a twosome in the lead, they're generally sandwiched in between foursomes, and in the high season, there will be few if any openings at all due to lack of teetimes.

WOW!!!chilout

Laugh
 

You are retired or have you forgotten....Slow down enjoy yourself, have a beer enjoy your friends, what,s the hurry....I am not there yet but from the outside looking in, I here that your past hecktick life of hurry to work,hurry home,is still with you, slow down, stress out , you have the rest of your life...

JMO

Not sure why I am chirping in except I could not sleep and am bored :).

Let me first say one of the slowest players I frequently play in a group with is a two handicap, so this is not just about ability. As many of us, I have played lots of golf in my life and I cannot remember playing with anyone who could not keep up. That includes players with physical handicaps as well as high golf handicaps. If they were golfers, i.e., understood rules and etiquette, then they each found their own way to keep pace.

My wife is a perfect example for this thread. When she started her golf journey she had trouble consistently hitting the ball, never mind hitting 150 yards. She understood one thing though, she had as much responsibility for pace of play on the course as any other player out there. During that first year if she could not keep up, the ball went in hand and we drove up to where the others were and she continued. No stress and in time this happened less and less. Today she is a pretty solid 24 handicap.

To me it is simple. We each own the pace of play for the whole course and with that the enjoyment of others who come behind us.

Slow Players Are Inconsiderate...An Experiment
 

There is no doubt that people who believe it is their right to play at any pace they want to are inconsiderate of others on the course. A five hour round, last week at Mallory, is not acceptable. New golfers should follow the advice of more experienced players regarding when they should pick up and move along.

A good experiment would be for the Villages be to designate one course as one where pace of play would be ridgidly enforced. Any group behind would move ahead to where they should be when instructed by an ambassador. Slow players would avoid that course and those who enjoyed maintaining pace would desire playing at that course.

One course could also be designated as one where pace of play will not be enforced at all. Slow players could choose that course and play as slow as they wanted.

I wonder what course would be more popular?

Charlie