Cut off the legs of a dead elk with a chainsaw
 

"A Central Florida construction company owner cut off the legs of a dead elk with a chainsaw for a photo opportunity while hunting in Montana, new documents allege.

"Wildwood businessman James "Ike" Rainey, owner of the Rainey Construction Co., is one of eight defendants who were charged with felony poaching violations in Montana last week.

"Rainey and Mark Morse, president and chief operating officer of The Villages retirement community 60 miles northwest of Orlando, are facing charges for illegally killing and possessing animals on their Montana ranches."

Snip.....

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,2346627.story

I have to wonder why such a thread was started.

:agree:

Agree
 

Is Shadow using this forum as some kind of vendetta against The Villages or the Morse family?

I agree and would expect nothing different from shadow having read his comments here and on the old poa website.

AMEN!

Army Guy

I am just the messenger. It is news. It is related to TV and I love to see how many times I can make you attract the messenger because you can have no other comment about article because I know dam well you are on the developers payroll and in charge of monitoring this site. It is your job to put whip cream on every dog log you find.

I am sorry so much whip cream gives me sugar shock.:cus:

You never did say what you thought about the content of the article.

Did you want to thank me for making the effort to provide the information to the people that find this activity criminal and want it stopped? Or we could pretend it did not happen.

Nothing personal, but you were wondering.:coolsmiley:

You can have the last word. :0000000000luvmyhors

I would guess that the only people who really have known me from Ohio and know all about my previous life there, the couple who gave us the tour two years ago and gave us a sweet cool drink would be the people to ask about who I really am and what I am really like. They don't post on here and I just YELLED at her on the phone about a health issue she is ignoring so she may be mad at me this second.

I could tell people anything, we all could. We are new to each other. On one hand I am complimented by the fact that you think I work for the Morses and on the other hand I am offended. I try very hard to be an honest person.

I swear that I do not work for the Morses and I have never met any of them.

I am not seeking employment, but I would love to meet them. Still...even after this awful hunting situation.

I would like to meet you Shadow. I am an old wrinkled woman who is very grateful to be here.

Well, it's kind of hard to argue with Shadow's logic if not his rhetoric; it is news about The Villages' developer and construction company, and this is Talk of the Villages. But I say let's wait to see the facts shake out in court. There will probably be a plea bargain, and we can make our determination based upon what the defendants admit to.

I would take what the Orlando Sentinel prints about the Villages with a grain of salt. They seem more interested in stories that get read by non-Villagers than actual facts about the Villages. It is about selling newspapers and competing with the Internet and TV news programs.

Wait for the legal system to work this out even though the first thing they teach you in law school is that the legal system has nothing to do with truth nor with justice. It has more to do with evidence and the appearance of justice.

On to another item in a previous post, I really doubt if Graciegirl is on the Villages' developers' payroll. She is just another person who loves her new community and is very vocal about it.

Whoa!
 

So Shadow, if one questions your motivation for this thread, it is only because that person must be "on the payroll of the developer"?

Gracie is one of the fairest persons to be on this forum. She always gives everyone the benefit of the doubt....everyone. Unlike many of the others on here, she looks for the good in everyone...not the bad or sensational or just the developers. It's a really long, unfair stretch to wonder if she is an employee (excuse me, on the payroll) of the developer because she refuses to believe the news hype. These are allegations, folks, not a conviction.

If that is the criteria by which you judge (yes, I believe you are judging her), then you'd better count lots of the rest of us as "on the payroll" as well. I have met Gracie and found her to be a warm, caring person who truly appreciates what she has. Nobody has to be "on the payroll" to do that.

I have to wonder when this became a country of trial by media replacing trial by a jury of one's peers. Hmmmm?

Thank you for being you, Gracie.

Montana's Radio and newspapers
 

I love the community here too. But don't blame anyone other than those who were closest to the source for this information. It is all over Montana's newspapers and radio stations. It is even being carried in some hunting blogs. Again I love it here, but as a hunter, I know how attrocious these acts are. Of course people on this board will deny any wrong-doing occurred. I am not one. Way too much evidence.

I, too, wonder why you've posted this story, Shadow, though it's your right to. At this point, my personal feeling is there's not much more to say about the situation. We're not in the area where the incidents were to have taken place, our input has no impact on how matters will be handled and anything we say is only personal feelings.

Not sure why you've felt the need to imply Gracie is working for the Morses. I've met Gracie and she is a dear, sweet woman who chooses to see the more positive side of situations and truly loves where she is living. More of us should stop jumping to conclusions about events and situations. (You know the old saying, if you ASSUME, you make an ass out of you and me.... ;) ) I, too, find this community to be a wonderful place to live, "warts and all." Not sure if you feel the same way, but I love it here. The Villages is unlike any other retirement community in the world, describing it to others leaves non-Villagers shaking their heads....it can't be as nice as that....but it is. We who live here, full time or seasonally, have CHOSEN to do so. The Morses don't need a "shill" to promote life here.

There are people who just seem too good to be true, and most of the time they end up being frauds.But Gracie, by all accounts from the people that have met her, including my Sharon, really IS too good to be true.That being said; Gracie, i don't have anymore room in my garage for your"Gracie For Mayor" signs, please pick them up:smiley:

PS. In the past, The Shadow has contributed alot of valuable information to this board.You need balance on every message board and Shadow performs that service to TOTV.Everyone of us, wishes we could delete a post we wrote ,............and that was one. :ohdear:

Please note what I posted was a news article. No trial accrued. I furnished a news paper article. I did not comment on the article. So I am more guilt of doing more wrong than the people that allegedly did wrong?

Wait till the trial is over OK.

http://dailyme.com/story/20101110000...-villages.html

I should not post this because?????????Reason number one, I can not read it because it is not in the “The Villages Daily Sun”.
Please not it is buried deep in this thread.

"The Shadow" Please see Page C5 - Daily Sun= Thursday, November 11, 2010---Law Enforcement Briefs---Tallahassee---"Death Sentence upheld for convicted Murdered"

My news is dated the 10th but you still get a cookie. I read news papers on line take your pick.

http://newslink.org/statnews.html

I think a chainsaw would be the right tool for the job.

Shadow, you shouldn't have to act defensively for merely starting a thread with a newspaper clip on a topic that is of interest to Villagers. You did nothing wrong. You provided information that is timely and is being discussed on other threads.

People take offense easily. Especially when a regular poster's ethics are questioned, like Graciegirl.

But the mere act of posting a newspaper clip on a timely and pertinent topic? Thanks for providing the info.

Only the person saying something truly knowns what in their heart.

IMHO -Gracie is the most positive person who cares about people. Her words and acts indicates she is a person who wouldn't hurt someone. I for one, can't wait to meet her as she is so gracious to open up her home for TOTV members. She is TV biggest cheerleader because she is thankful for living in a wonderful place.

Nothing and no-one is perfect but TV comes very close to being perfect.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I choose to think that someone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and not from the court of public opinion.

To be informed is great but one must determine for themselves how much is to be believed. Until all the facts are in, we really don't know.

Shame on you Shadow! Lots people here in The Villages seem to worship the developer and his cohorts as almost a God. You really shouldn't blasphemy their choice for idol worship.

2BNTV, You are right about Gracie, and right about everyone having their own opinion, and right about how much is to be believed, and right about innocent until proven guilty. I agree with your entire post.

My point is that we all should not point fingers, or cast suspicions on someone just for posting a newspaper article. There wasn't even a comment with the article.

If posters were on The Villages payroll, I believe this forum would have been shut down long ago. I believe that people here just give their honest opinion and Gracie most of all.

If these allegations
 

are true, I hope they throw the book at Morse and his cohorts. Funny how the law and order crowd is so ready to wait for the justice system to figure out what is and is not accurate.

K9, You are right about Gracie, and right about everyone having their own opinion, and right about ...

My point is that we all should not point fingers, or cast suspicions on someone just for posting (a link to) a newspaper article.

Shame why, what did I do wrong.
Please note what I posted was a news article. No trial accrued. I furnished a news paper article. I did not comment on the article. So I am more guilt of doing more wrong than the people that allegedly did wrong?

"worship the developer" I tell you what Skippy that is some sick s***.

I am having another Whip Cream high sorry.

You all have a nice day I am going to go watch Oprah.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/i...iefWIP21sm.jpg

I think Regor was being facetious.

Yup. You got me! :wave:

Gracie, congratulations on your new job. :a20:

You've never answered the question Shadow, why did you post the link? Do you want to keep discussion of the story going? Do you want to keep us informed as to what has happened? Do you want to take aim at the Morses or Raineys? I'm curious about your reason for the link.

Thanks.

I agree. It is the news, and I'm interested in hearing about it. Don't kill the messenger. If you want to be angry, direct that energy to the people who committed the poaching.

Thanks Shadow, for the update.

That is a good question. Does this shadow fellow think he is doing us a community service by always posting negatively. I have read his previous postings. He is very consistent.

Here's a link to some information on Rainey Construction.

http://www.manta.com/c/mmlcrhk/rainey-construction

It indicates Rainey Construction is a private company and has annual revenue of between $20-$50 milliion. No doubt the vast majority, if not all, of it's revenue comes from construction projects in The Villages. Rainey Trail is obviously named after him.

Considering this firms involvement in the Villages, this article is news we should be made aware of. It's also something you won't see in the Daily Sun.

Thanks to The Shadow for posting the article. You can form your own conclusions regarding Rainey/Morse et al from reading the articles, but it helps to be informed as to what any vendor who does work here is involved in.

Here is a link to a MT story about this legal matter.
 

http://www.laureloutlook.com/article...ts/12poach.txt

Notice the lack of yellow journalism you see in the Orlando Sentinel story as described by the Shadow anyway.

The article from MT describes one of the allegations against James Rainey as:

"€ Two misdemeanor charges of waste of game in Big Horn County in September 2009. Rainey is accused of killing two elk, then removing only the head from one elk and allowing the meat from both carcasses to rot."

It does not go into the use of a chainsaw. This would seem to be something a prosecutor would want to point out when telling a jury about the case he or she would prove. It plays on your emotion. I cannot think of many other ways of removing an elk's head from its body except those that are just as graphic in their description.

PETA style
 

In November 2008, Rainey shot a male elk and directed them to take it "up the hill with a four-wheeler," then cut the legs "with a chainsaw for better positioning of the elk for photographs," Staton said.

The elk meat was cleaned and chopped but later spoiled inside an unplugged freezer. Game wardens dug up holes on the ranches where the bones — specifically ribcages and spinal columns — had been buried.

"Most Montana hunters find it totally egregious to waste the meat," Gibson said. "Most people in Montana eat what they kill."

Hunters can bring game meat to local processing plants in Montana that will clean, cut, and freeze it for a nominal fee, he said. The meat is then donated to local food banks for the hungry.

The name of this thread was obviously meant to shock us and it does. The whole lot of allegations sound repugnant. I'm an animal lover from a family of hunters, and I've hunted myself.

But in the clipping above, I don't see the difference between sawing off the legs for a picture, and sawing the legs off while field dressing the carcass or dressing it at the meat processing plant as described above.

It seems to me that the chainsaw and leg chopping was meant to inject some PETA-style "horror" into the allegations.

There is no gentle way to dress out an elk or any large animal. Does anyone think the elk would prefer an axe over the chainsaw?

Does anyone know if this is an ongoing hot topic throughout TV, or mainly here on TOTV?

I'm curious to know how widespread the topic/discussion is. Thanks.

Are we being baited?
 

We oftentime rise to a topic here in a bit of a rabid manner. We are then rewarding people for inappropriate behavior. Possibly we should incorporate the oft used teacher strategy of "planned ignoring." That behavior which doesn't evoke a reaction is often not repeated. Works well with adolescent behavior, I can vouch for that.
Since we have opened up this can of worms, might I ask a few questions?
1. Why do we need to know this? If, in fact, we were going to be on the jury which tries him we would have the facts spelled out for us in a Montana court. But chances are slim to none that we will called to jury duty in Montana, I don't see the need for this information..

2. Shadow, could you share with us where you live? Is it in TV or not?

3. Does anyone know the definition and the consequences of slander, lible and defamation of character?

4. Most importantly, does a dead moose actually feel the chainsaw?

Just MHO. TY :Screen_of_Death:

Character of a Man
 

Breaking the law in this case is a sign of a man's character. Yes, dead animals feel pain as they are dying. Yes, this is talked about in sport groups, golf groups, and social groups in the Villages. No, hunters do not cut off legs and leave them in the field. No hunter with a conscience wastes food, especially from a state which has a high level of poverty.

I don't know that I'd call it yellow journalism - that tends to be sensationalist headlines, which is certainly the case here, but yellow journalism also implies lack of factual basis, poor research, faked interviews, unnamed sources, etc. In this case the headlines, although sensationalist, appear to be true. They are based on affadavits that are a matter of public record.

Unfortunately, everything lately from the media seems to be sensationalist - that's how they grab everyone's attention. Look at this recent headline in the national news: "Condit's DNA found on Levy's Underwear", like we needed to hear that. The Orlando Sentinel isn't doing anything different than any other media source is doing, its trying to sell papers and stay afloat financially. I don't care for the sensationalism, but I do think they are presenting the facts in the matter.